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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:01 PM
Original message
The larger picture (yes on swine flu)
whether this flu is as lethal as oh even the yearly flu or not, for this post does not matter

We will concentrate not on health care but the economy and political economy

We have some folks round these parts that cannot connect dots, so let me try connect them for them

The US Federal Government is trying (and mark my words they will fail, that horse left the barn a while ago) to change the name from swine flu to H1N1... why the President said H1N1 Flu. No, this is not accidental, the effects on the US pork industry are already significant, Imports from pig products from the US in many places are simply a no-no. Now most folks don't realize this either but pork futures have crashed (or at least gone down significantly) By the way some countries, see S.Korea, are going so far as to fumigate any agricultural goods coming from North America

No it does not mater that ... you cannot get this from eating bacon... this is one of those moments where politics interacts with stoopid and fear and leads to terminal stupidity. You cannot cure stoopid

There's more, we have a pressure to close borders with Mexico.. thankfully the adults are in charge and reminding people that no, that will not be effective at this stage. That does not mean this is not effectively it is not happening... in france and Cuba. Now it may not strike you as significant that flights will stop from some countries to others but economists know there is an effect... and mark my words stoopd and fear are probably more infectious than the H1N1... and leads to quite funny things that would be even more funny if the effects, potentially, could not be serious for the recovery. Free clue, them planes don't carry only passengers.. and they shall include cargo planes too

Of course if we go into the ever so lovely school closures... what happens to the employees that don't have childcare? So you will have people not going to work because they have to take care of kids (and yes this measure makes sense)

Of course there is the already happening effect in Mexico where restaurant workers have lost a lot of income. Think, what if this was your local Denny's? No, not out of the possibility

And even if we didn't get to any of those levels... we are already feeling an economic effect. Just as the Pork growers association. The BBC did... and they are already seeing it... with backlog

Now one more thing.. national single payer health care will NOT stop the rate of infection. Will just allow people in advanced economies to go see the doctor, get tamifly or relenza, and reduce the severity of the flu... which also has economic consequences. It is cheaper to treat at early stages than the Intensive Care Unit, by orders of magnitude!

Wanna bet that our 50 million people who don't have access will NOT go to the doctor until they are so sick they will go to the ER. But hey, having access to a doctor in a national emergency is a bad idea (yes I have read this here... from folks who cannot connect dots or are very selective)

That is all




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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fort Worth TX schools on "vacation" for 1 1/2 wks due to H1N1 flu
Trying to contain the spread. Mexican gvt is shutting down a bunch also, trying to contain the spread.

It doesn't have to be super lethal but is spreading and could have problems so containing the spread, limiting it as much as possible is a good thing. I hate to see what happens if it gets to, say, Somalia. Or when.

WHO is World Health Organization.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Mexico has closed ALL schools nationwide
at all levels, from kindergarten to college until May 6

Imagine if you will this happening here... Ft Worth is the first but I suspect not the the last
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. recommend
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Re: Closing border
There's an exercise in futility. It will only keep vehicles from entering on the highway. :eyes:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Not only that, closing al transit in and out of Mexico City
two weeks ago MIGHT have worked... but this has established itself in Mexico, the US and we know now Spain, more to follow
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's called H1N1 because that is what it is. This is not the "swine flu" of years past.
Mad cow didn't kill the beef industry.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes, but the reframing away from swine to H1N1
is to protect the porky industry

So said Ag Secretary Vislsak this morning
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hell, maybe it is. It doesn't make sense to me, but I don't think like a politician.
Thank God.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I used to wear the PIO hat, among many others, for the red cross in TJ
so parsing words became a habit

Now to give them their due, this is leading to less sales of porky products, so if this works (doubt it) it will help


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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Or a farmer, apparently.
When your product becomes unsellable it's hard to make ends meet.

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Oh, please. Commoditities go in the tank on a regular cycle.
Edited on Thu Apr-30-09 08:29 AM by Buzz Clik
Seldom is that cycle related to the outbreak of a disease.

Do I REALLY have to say that farmers are important? Are you REALLY trying to create the impression that we value the name of a disease more than the livelihood of America's breadbasket?

Damn this gets tiresome. Every time some issue comes around, somebody is there to tell us how little we understand because we aren't white, female, obese, socialist, atheist, depressed, a Party Purist, etc etc etc. Now farmers?

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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yes, this again. Yet another person disagrees with you. Get used to it.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Disagree? You didn't disagree with anyone. You simply started whining.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Not "anyone." You! I disagreed with you. Don't let the fear make you lash out.
Edited on Thu Apr-30-09 07:28 PM by John Q. Citizen
i wish you peace and calmness. And breathe, don't forget to breathe.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. When did you and your buddy decide I was afraid of the flu?
Project much, jumbo?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Flu? I thought you were afraid of looking stupid so you try to cover it up by talking all tough
and agro.

I've seen it before.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. So, I'm afraid of you?
Now I know you're projecting.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. To, not of. You seem afaid, to me. but I have to go, got other things to do. See ya!
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. You seem only interested in bringing this to a personal level
For assholes whose sole response is insult, I put them on ignore. You had a chance to be civil, but you chose to be a jerk.

Goodbye.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. That is why the Ag Secretary started this
the UN was concerned and they have actually changed the name world wide

Yep, they are over reacting.. I am sure of it

:sarcasm:
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I have really enjoyed your endless series of posts on this subject.
:rofl:



(aren't smilies fun?)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Of course you have, you do fall in the category of we are scared
from news items...

And that is by the way, fine... loss of control and lashing at it (potentially) is a classic reaction seen in disaster situations

And no I am not making fun about you or laughing at you

But if this is fear inducing, don't read the posts

Limit your news consumption to CDC, perhaps 1 hour a day of news (MSNBC or BBC)




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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. What's wrong with that?
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Who knows. I smell a conspiracy theory brewing, but I'm not sure where it's going.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Mad Cow cost billions. They slaughtered every bovine in England, fer crying out loud.
Right now, the state of Montana spends big bucks trying to keep wild buffalo from their migration routes for forage in the winter time.

What's in a name? Plenty.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. Mad Cow was a disease that could be passed to humans by consuming beef.
Swine flu is not.

Jesus fucking Christ.
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obliviously Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. tamifly
What is that?
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. A typo. The brand name is Tamiflu.
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obliviously Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'm sorry
I thought they had come up with a new one.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. My mistake I have not added the damn thing to the MAC speller
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Perish the thought!
Enough are already endangered! Rumsfeld will rake it in and all is on Level 4 in the world. DUMP THAT INVENTORY!!! :evilgrin:
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. nadinbrzezinsk I for one want to thank you for sticking with this issue
Anyone with relatives and friends in Mexico cares a great deal about what's happening.

Thank you.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. You welcome but i am just trying to look at the big picture
mexico specific the hit is over 1B already to the GNP
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. A note about swine flu in China - flu in pigs, not people
At the very end of an article on the reframing/renaming of 'swine flu' to H1N1 there were these two paragraphs:
There seems little indication of any outbreak of the new flu in China. There have been no recent surges in illnesses among pigs or pig farmers, according to Ben Boake, the executive vice president of the Henan Zhongpin Food Company Ltd., one of China’s largest pork processors.

Millions of pigs died in China two years ago in an epidemic so severe that it pushed pork prices up 90 percent. Veterinarians attributed the deaths at the time mainly to blue-ear disease, which does not affect humans, but also to swine flu. The Chinese government did not issue a public report assessing the outbreak and provided very few details to international organizations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/world/asia/29swine.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=h1n1&st=cse


I've seen no other mention of the Chinese incident anywhere. Interesting. I wonder if there are any samples that could be tested and compared to the current H1N1 virus?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. One effect to the health system that escaped me until today
I had dinner with my former partner today, He is still a medic in Tijuana

Will leave the geek language out... but they are now using masks, gloves and goggles on ALL patient contacts.

Folks that is an increase in cost... good for the goggle makers, but it just runs your yearly cost of running an emergency ambulance service through the roof, yep by nickel and diming,

This is good medical procedure, but it will have economic effects too
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. Gosh, I sure wish I felt sorry for people who keep animals like this:



Turns out, I don't.


Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu. Swine flu.


OINK.


If this puppy should happen to come back in the fall, and it gets pissy, we're going to find out exactly how third-world and fragile our great American healthcare system really is.

I remain cautious, informed, and not yet overly concerned. Mostly because there's precious little I can do that I don't already do.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Thanks for wishing us all ill will.
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