********SHAME*********

[Bluebear]

During the trial, Chastity Pasley and Kristen Price (the pair's then-girlfriends) testified under oath that Henderson and McKinney both plotted beforehand to rob a gay man. McKinney and Henderson then went to the Fireside Lounge and selected Shepard as their target. McKinney alleged that Shepard asked them for a ride home. After befriending him, they took him to a remote area of Laramie where they robbed him, beat him severely (media reports often contained the graphic account of the pistol whipping and his smashed skull), and tied him to a fence with a rope from McKinney's truck. Shepard begged for his life. Both girlfriends also testified that neither McKinney nor Henderson was under the influence of drugs at the time. The beating was so severe that the only areas on Shepard's face that were not covered in blood were those where his tears had washed the blood stains away.

The following Democrats voted against the Matthew Shepard Act today:

Dan Boren - OK
Bobby Bright - AL
Chris Carney - PA
Travis Childers - MS
Artur Davis - AL
Lincoln Davis -TN
Joe Donnelly -IN
Bart Gordon - TN
Parker Griffith - AL
Mike McIntyre - NC
Charlie Melancon - LA
Collin Peterson - MN
Mike Ross - AR
Heath Shuler - NC
John Tanner - TN
Gene Taylor - MS

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Creena]

9. I don't see the problem with calling out those who voted against the act.

I loathe anyone who takes away civil rights, Democrats included.

[bluedawg12]

71. Someone must have been bothered by transparency in Govt.

FU

[calimary]

152. I don't, either. They voted that way. They should wear this vote like a hair shirt.

And everyone should know who they are and where they stood. Seems kinda like they're STILL trying to beat, torture, humiliate, and kill Matthew Shepard. I don't understand these people. Perhaps they feel that because he's gay, he still hasn't suffered enough?

[tekisui]

2. Fuckin Shuler. I am about ready to vote him out of office,

even for a repuke.

[Faygo Kid]

12. He's as good a congressman as he was a pro quarterback.

Epic fail.

I expect him to make a big splashy announcement that he is becoming a Repuke in the next couple years.

[tpsbmam]

230. I am so sick of this piece of crap calling himself a Dem and NOT representing

us in Congress. Time to get an actual Democrat in that seat.....between Taylor & Shuler, that's been a disastrous Congressional seat since 1991!

[Shell Beau]

3. Pretty much all southerners. I am ashamed!

[MedleyMisty]

27. Huh?

Oklahoma, Pennslyvania, Indiana, and Minnesota are part of the South?

[Bluebear]

37. Well, if you add up the votes, not just the states...

that's not the point of the thread, but face it, those were overwhelmingly southern representatives.

[defendandprotect]

60. Oddly enough, yes ---

I was suprised to find that out -- evidently after the Civil War a lot of slaves
moved into Oklahoma and Indiana --

The saying about Pennsylvania . . .
"Philadelphia in the East, Pittsburgh in the West and Alabama in the middle."

I don't know the details on MN --

but, remember that Segregation, Inc. was strongly in place in Washington, DC
even into the 1960's -- Adam Clayton Powell, if I recall this correctly, had to
actually break the code -- I guess it was a "Gentlemen's Agreement" still --
in the Congressional dining room where he certainly wasn't welcomed.

I trust others here have better information on all of this --

but that's how these states come to be identified as the "South" -- !!!

[HooptieWagon]

72. No, but 12 of 16 Dem "Nays" were from deep south

which is what Post #3 was referring to.

[RoBear]

75. Oklahoma certainly is...

make no mistake. I'm a Kansan (yeh, yeh, I know) and believe me those are some serious rednecks down there...

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. We have them here in Kansas too

Let's not forget the minutemen had their convention here in KC last year.

[rateyes]

90. And, Fred Phelps. Don't forget that bigot.

[Neecy]

113. there's a difference.....

I live very close to the Oklahoma border now, so much so that I do much of my shopping in Oklahoma and my local news comes out of Tulsa. Small sample size, I know, but Kansans tend to hide their ignorance; Oklahomans celebrate it.

Btw, I love living in the Flint Hills. I know my neighbors, they all wave hello when I'm getting my mail or mowing my lawn; if they see me taking something heavy out of my car, they run over to bring it in the house for me, and people stop by to introduce themselves. No one has attacked me for my Obama bumper sticker and they don't care. The only thing I miss from JoCo is Whole Foods :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. I love the Flint Hills

How are the politics down there?

[Neecy]

124. they actually seem pretty non-political

They may be Republicans (and 80% are) but they don't talk about it at all, and they don't treat me badly for being an obvious liberal Democrat - I have two stickers on my car, one is Obama, the other is a "sushi-eating, latte-sipping, Volvo-driving LIBERAL" on my Volvo. I had a third, which said "Fine. I evolved, you didn't" but I took it off because it's one thing to have political differences but I don't want to offend religious sensibilities down here - and yeah, there are lots of churches for a town of a thousand.

[Enthusiast]

205. If I had those same stickers on

my car here in S.E. Ohio my car would be vandalized. Hard to find a progressive thinker around here, aside from my wife, mother, brother and son. I'm going to put an ad in the paper: Liberals needed for intelligent conversation. I joke. There are many progressives in nearby Athens Ohio, a kind of college town enclave of liberalism in the midst of superdutystupidity.

[Heidi]

86. I was raised in Oklahoma, and while I know not all Oklahomans are rednecks,

I agree with you that there are some serious rednecks in the state. Hell, we had to have our junior/senior proms in a neighboring city because our little town had a "no dancing" ordinance.

[EOTE]

99. I grew up in a town like that.

We had been living in Chicago and then headed out to a tiny little town in the West. I found out shortly thereafter that the down had an ordinance against not only dancing, but rock music as well. When prom time came around, I decided I wanted to organize my class mates to get rid of the town's outdated laws regarding rock music and dancing and I ended up going toe to toe with the town's hard-headed, fundamentalist minister in order to do so.

Oh wait, never mind. That was Footloose.

[Heidi]

102. Footloose was based on Elmore City, Oklahoma,

not far from where I grew up. At the time, two factions controlled everything that went on in our little town: the Church of Christ and the Baptist Church. There was a Pentecostal Holiness church in town, too, but the Baptists and Church of Christ folks considered Pentecostals extreme; ironic, I know.

Edited for spelling.

[EOTE]

103. How interesting.

When I first saw the film, it seemed so ridiculous to me. I couldn't believe that in modern times, there were towns that really had restrictions on things like that. Goes to show you, I guess.

[Sequoia]

108. Oh sure there is.

Where I grew up dancing was not allowed, nor could we see movies in a theatre...not even a Billy Grahmn movie. It was what happened after the dance that the adults feared. Of course they would never tell us what could possibly happen afterwards. Yet, come Sunday the preacher man would be up there talking about how King David was dancing in the street when the Arc of the Covenant was brought back and how his wife was looking out from a window and laughed at him (ha, you got two left feet)so God got mad and cursed her with a barren womb.

[Enthusiast]

207. "Where I grew up dancing was not allowed"

That is pathetic!

[tomg]

226. The reason fundies hate sex

is because it might lead to dancing.

[sazemisery]

118. Yes, sadly, Oklahoma has it's share of rednecks and..

fundamentalists. Boren is my representative and he receives many emails from me ridding his ass on representing his constituents. Does no good and no progressive will run against him because of his name recognition.

[Pacifist Patriot]

79. I only see three non-southern states in that list. So I'd say the observation is a good one.

[dysfunctional press]

98. indiana south of gary is definitely part of 'the south'...

or at least they want to be- REALLY BADLY.

[Shell Beau]

104. That is why I said pretty much and didn't say ALL.

[harmonicon]

139. Oklahoma is

Have you looked at a map lately? Indiana basically is, apart from the northernmost part of the state.

[Jamastiene]

217. I can't say anything about Minnesota, but the rest you named

might as well be part of the south as far as how the cultures are in large portions of those states. Trust me, you do see a lot of that mentality in at least three of those four states you listed.

You have to step outside the safety of a large city to see what a state is REALLY like. They don't call the vast majority of middle America "the fly over states" for nothing.

[Toucano]

51. Especially when we consider that rural Americans are perhaps most in need

of this protection.

They failed the people in their districts who are most vulnerable to attack in order to service the hate-based ideology of those who would be unaffected by passage.

[LynneSin]

73. Chris Carney is Northcentral Pennsylvania - which is pretty much like the south

Unfortunately he's in a district that if anyone else runs a democrat they would probably lose. That seat was owned by the republicans for decades and the only reason Carney won was that the incumbent Don Sherwood was caught beating his mistress. Because Carney is so fricking moderate to conservative, he'll easily win his district again by voting the way he did today on issues like this.

It's really a no-win situation - we find a primary opponent that could take out Carney you'll put a republican in there instead.

[Patiod]

106. Carville: "PA = Phila + Pittsburgh with Alabama in the middle"

(and this from Carville, a dyed in the wool Southerner - not some Yankee who likes Dixie-bashing)

Central PA is actually, literally, Appalachia

I've been to bars in Carney's district, looking for a bite to eat on my way home from state college, and they are Deliverance-scary ("uh, guys, maybe we'd better drive back to the McDonald's in Williamsport....")

Once you leave Reading, and until you hit Pittsburgh, you're driving through small towns where the car radio can pick up only 1) Christian radio 2) country music 3)head-banger metal.

[Autumn Colors]

112. Isn't the whole central part of the state called "Pennsyl-tucky"?

Thought I heard that somewhere ....

[Patiod]

121. True! Pennsyl-tucky!

The analogy is apt.

[LynneSin]

138. It's not all that bad, Harrisburg is pretty decent

but when you get outside :scared:

I understand that folks here are pissed at Chris Carney but the scary thought is this - you get rid of Chris Carney you're going to have alot worse then him because it will be a republican.

[Patiod]

228. True enough on both counts

I spent a little time in Harrisburg when I was dating a guy from there that I met in Avalon.

And you're right - Harrisburg and Lancaster are fine, but a few miles outside and you're in trouble.

Also right about Carney - the alternative is some Club for Growth wannabe or Christian Dominionist.

[Richd506]

78. Hold up now

There are quite a few liberal areas in the south. Surely you mustn't be talking about them too?

[Pacifist Patriot]

81. Regardless of liberals in the south (me among them)...

and liberal areas in the south. It is interesting to note the geographic concentration of the nay votes. It is not a random distribution throughout our nation.

[Jamastiene]

214. Actually, if you go look at the OP,

it's quite obvious that they are not talking about everyone in the South. They are talking about the Democrats who voted against the Matthew Shepherd Act; he ones listed in the OP.

I'm from the south (and so is the person you were replying to) and I would have voted FOR the Matthew Shepherd Act had I been in a position to do so.

Welcome to DU, anyhow.

[Jamastiene]

213. Did you see this shit?

http://www.hrcbackstory.org/2009/04/hrc-demands-rep-foxx-apologize-to-judy-shepard-for-calling-her-son-matthews-death-a-hoax/

One Republican from District 5 here in NC said Matthew Shepherd's murder was "a hoax."

Democrats and Republicans pretty much think the same in this state as far as our elected representatives.

It sickens me too.

I'll be waiting for my chance to vote against Mike McIntyre from now on. I know that much. I'll remember this.

[dddem]

222. I'm from Masssachusetts

and I can guarantee that homophobia knows no borders. It's pretty much a worldwide sentiment. Shame on us all.

[Mike 03]

4. Disgusting, I agree. Truly despicable. NT.

[Uzybone]

5. Well I'm surprised to see Heath Shuler on this list

I'm shocked.

:sarcasm:

[blondeatlast]

6. Shame indeed. May their names be noted by our expanding local base--

and may they have the toughest civil-rights minded primary opponents those localaties can muster.

[polichick]

7. Matthew's murder broke my heart, and I still feel sick every time I think about it...

I can't get my mind around hatred like that.

(Which I guess is to stay, WHAT were these lawmakers thinking??)

[orleans]

8. their constituents need to know this. i can't believe anyone would

be proud that they voted against it. or should i say i can't believe any dem would be.

[Canuckistanian]

What the fuck are they? They're not Democrats.

It should have been a simple matter to add gender discrimination to an existing law.

Do these idiots not have gay constituents? Are they not aware that they're voting for a minority of homophobes?

Geez, it's not like they're voting for gay marriage.

It's about punishing those who DO VIOLENCE SPECIFICALLY to gays?

WTF is wrong with these people?

[EFerrari]

10. On all of them.

[PunkinPi]

11. Truly disappointing. :(

[bbernardini]

13. Have any of them released statements explaining WHY they voted against it? nt

[Hissyspit]

14. Shame on Heath Shuler. I gave him money.

Jerk.

[Divine Discontent]

59. wow, Hissyspit, sorry. But you are a great person then to write or call his office and reference

your donation & date of it, and how all this bill did was help make the small minority of bigots know that there was no getting out of attacking your fellow citizens who are different than you, and therefore it'd help encourage a reminder that they will be punished for doing so. It's not special rights, it guarantees equal rights that too often are not granted because of bigotry and Shuler apparently supports violence against GLBT people. He now has become as big as a failure as he was to the Redskins. Way overpaid in both aspects of his life.

And PS - thanks for your posting of videos always, I thank you from time to time, but it's important you do what you do to help centralize info we'd all want to see, and it's appreciated.

[cliffordu]

15. They ought to be voted out of office.

[spanone]

16. pathetic...and not one republican voted for it. the party without a heart or mind.

[walldude]

22. Not true.. there were I believe 16 repugs who voted aye.

there is a list in the other thread on GD.

[FLAprogressive]

31. Even Repugs who were in very conservative districts

such as Bill Cassidy, Mike Coffman, and Greg Walden.

[spanone]

105. thanks

[Bluenorthwest]

74. Untrue

So sorry. The point of this thread is that Democrats voted against it, siding with that hoax shouter and other haters. Several Republicans voted on the side of humanity, several Democrats did not.
To me they are not Democrats, they are frauds. Bigots and haters who stand with the scum of Congress, who are the scum of Congress, and Congress is a hard place to win the scum award, being comprised mostly of scum.

[Midlodemocrat]

17. Why? Why would anyone vote against this? That beautiful child, destroyed due to hate and ignorance.

I'm going to be sick.

[Enthusiast]

210. Don't be sick, he

chose to be gay. :sarcasm:

Really, who would choose to be gay and suffer a life time of persecution? And even if they did.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

18. Shame indeed. n/t

[fishwax]

19. Shame indeed

:grr:

[FreeState]

20. Thanks for posting with their states

None are near me however Im adding all of this to my files and wont be financially supporting anyone who votes against the GLBT community.

[kiva]

21. They have failed the basic human decency test. nt

[t0dd]

23. Here is my letter to Representative Carney

Representative Carney:

As a Pennsylvania resident, I was, quite frankly, appalled by your decision to vote against the Matthew Shepherd Act. I'm not sure what kind of elected official, let alone a democrat, votes against punishing those who commit violence specifically against an oppressed minority. I am gravely disappointed in your decision. Time may one day heal the years of suffering and intolerance homosexuals have endured in this country. Time will not soon forget your decision of promoting discrimination and disregarding the principles our country was founded on.

Sincerely,

Todd

[otohara]

50. Doesn't It Piss You Off

that we find out about these things after they've voted?

I had no idea this was being voted on, nor was I notified by any of the umpteen liberal e-mails I get from various orgs.

Shameful that any democrat would vote on such a measure - I plan to call each one tomorrow and I will try to be diplomatic like your excellent letter....nah - they don't deserve nice after this.

[barbtries]

58. good letter

i'll have to remember that when i write to the two dem reps from NC who voted against the bill.

[ooglymoogly]

24. It is men/women like these that were complicit in his death. nt

[Laelth]

25. The bill still passed. These Representatives were given cover.

So long as it passed, I could care less who voted against it. I should mention that my own Congress-critter, Marshall (D, occasionally, GA), is not on the list. He got cover on the budget, instead.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Bluebear]

28. >So long as it passed, I could care less who voted against it< A curious attitude, sorry.

[Laelth]

42. No need to apologize. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Bluebear]

43. Don't you believe in accountability?

[Toucano]

48. I understand your point, and we're all glad it passed. But this isn't just pragmatism.

This is pure cowardice on a FUNDAMENTAL issue of protecting people.

As cynical as I am, I cannot believe these representatives could have had a very hard time defending a yes vote.

[TheBigotBasher]

91. The cover is what they were looking for.

To hide from their shame among DECENT PEOPLE so that they could go play nice with their bitter old bigots.

They should not be able to get cover.

The Democratic Party should never play to the needs of bigots.

[Mad_Dem_X]

136. I am glad it passed; however,

we should remember those who voted against it, and voice our disapproval to them. They are horrible excuses for human beings.

[yardwork]

26. Heath Shuler's district includes Asheville, NC. I hope they give him hell for this.

Disgraceful.

[tekisui]

231. I live in Asheville.

I called his office, told him I have voted for him 2 times, and would not make it three. I told his office I would rather a repuke win, so we can run a real Dem against them.

[tnlefty]

29. K & R!

I hope that you won't mind if I print the body of this and mail it to the TN members. I'll remind them, Gordon in particular, that this is a reason (a major reason) that they don't get a penny from me anymore. :puke:

[bridgit]

30. Interesting regional clusters of shameful short-coming

:thumbsdown:

[Olney Blue]

32. Hard to understand...

[stevedeshazer]

33. Shame indeed.

It's really telling that almost all these congress critters are from one particular area of the country which must not be named because they'll get their Confederate flags all in a wad.

Recommended.

[marmar]

34. Ah, the Blue Dirty Dawgs are at it again........

They can all go to Fundie hell. :evilfrown:

[glitch]

35. Horrible shame. Infamous even. Thank you for posting their names.

Loathsome, disgusting people.

[NMDemDist2]

36. I'm glad to see my new D congresscritter's name WASN'T on that list

he may surprise me yet.......

[hangman86]

38. Damn Blue Dogs!

:mad:

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

39. This pisses me off to no end....

Look at this pic....Just a kid...shame indeed.

[Stellabella]

40. Collin Peterson is not getting another nickel of my money.

Asshat.

[Starry Messenger]

41. Totally heartless and cowardly.

x(

[Solly Mack]

44. K&R

[Dinger]

45. I'm Saving This

I won't forget.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

46. They all need to be voted the fuck out

And how the hell can there be a deleted post in here? What kind of bigot could have problems with this?

[defendandprotect]

64. Hard to believe isn't it . . . ? A visitor, I hope -- !!!

[Behind the Aegis]

47. Shame, indeed!

[InfiniteThoughts]

49. real shame ....

there is no reason why the Matthew Shepard Act shouldn't be passed ASAP. There is widespread support for it - in Congress & Senate.

President Obama - Get your pen ready. Here comes the bill for your signature ...

[Toucano]

52. Disgraceful.

I hope the LGBT groups in their districts give them hell for this.

[Chovexani]

143. Everyone who believes in justice and equality should give them hell for this

This is not a "gay" issue, this is an issue of basic fairness and humanity.

[Solon]

53. Fucking homophobic assholes...

I have no words for how I feel about these pieces of excrement.

[Odin2005]

54. Collin Peterson, you are a WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT!!!

:grr:

[jeff30997]

55. "not covered in blood were those where his tears had washed the blood stains away"

Heartless maniacs! :cry:

[Mad_Dem_X]

137. That line broke my heart.

Hell, the entire story broke my heart. WHY do we allow this kind of thing in a supposedly-civilized society???!!!

[Dragonfli]

56. Their kindred (constituents of their hearts) just came to my town to express the POV they agree with

I was not around last weekend so I couldn't make it to the play or to flip off the protesters.

Here is the email warning of their visit:

Subversive Friends,
Reverend Fred Phelps of the bigoted Westboro Baptist Church (who runs the grotesquely anti-gay website www.godhatesfags.com) have announced their intentions to picket Subversive Theatre's upcoming presentation of THE LARAMIE PROJECT this weekend.
Their website site urges their members to picket us saying: "the only reason why these brute Buffalonians would dream of showing the Laramie bull-poop is because they hate their children." Check it out their crazed vitriol for yourself at http://www.godhatesfags.com:80/schedule.html
Contrary to their deranged perception, THE LARAMIE PROJECT is a beautiful docu-drama play that details the all-too-true events surrounding the murder of Matthew Shepard in an anti-gay hate crime in Laramie, Wyoming in 1998 (more info about this show included below).
Help us show these zanies that we are not intimidated by their hate-mongering -- come and enjoy THE LARAMIE PROJECT this weekend and be sure to sneer at the bigots along the way. Or counter-demonstrate against them outside our building at 255 Great Arrow Avenue.
Performances are this Saturday (April 25) at 8pm or Sunday (April 26) at 6pm. See below for more about the show. According to their website, the crazies will be protesting from 7pm-8pm this Saturday and from 5pm-6pm this Sunday.

Subversive Theatre Unapologetically Presents:
in collaboration with the Visual and Performing Arts Department of Daemen College and the New Phoenix Theatre on the Park
THE LARAMIE PROJECT
by Moises Kaufman and members of the Tectonic Theater Project

Saturday, April 25 @ 8pm ~~ Sunday, April 26 @ 6pm
at the Manny Fried Playhouse
(3rd floor of the Great Arrow Building at 255 Great Arrow Avenue, North Buffalo)
ADMISSION FREE/DONATIONS WELCOME!!!

Presented in association with the Visual and Performing Arts Department of Daemen College and the New Phoenix Theatre on the Park, our production of THE LARAMIE PROJECT is Directed by Robert Waterhouse and features the acting talents of Amanda Flowers, Chadwick Hopson, Codie Kremblas, Amanda Mortellaro, Anthony Orlowski, Emilie Pryor, and Matthew Vargason. Set Design by Lawrence Post, Lighting Design by Kurt Schneiderman, Costumes & Props by Amanda Robbins.

Doors open one half hour before each performance. Seating is on a first-come-first-served basis. For more information please visit Subversive Theatre's website at www.subversivetheatre.org or give us a call at 716-408-0499

I just noticed that the post on their schedule page does not keep anything that is over. It is just as well. You would not believe how vile the language was in that call for the flock to visit Buffalo. So much hate mixed with the word God was surreal and hard to even read.

[defendandprotect]

65. Phelps reminds me of Randall Terry's one time behavior . . . obsessed --- !!!

[jgraz]

57. It's shameful that ANY U.S. Representative voted against this, regardless of party

[and-justice-for-all]

61. Just sent Joe Donnelly some mail...

expressing my disappointment in his vote.

Bigotry is not an American value.

[bluedawg12]

233. Good for you!

No money for bigot Joe!

[rpannier]

62. I'm sure if it was a vote on naming Rush Limbaugh a Great American Patriot

Dan Boren - OK
Bobby Bright - AL
Chris Carney - PA
Travis Childers - MS
Artur Davis - AL
Lincoln Davis -TN
Joe Donnelly -IN
Bart Gordon - TN
Parker Griffith - AL
Mike McIntyre - NC
Charlie Melancon - LA
Collin Peterson - MN
Mike Ross - AR
Heath Shuler - NC
John Tanner - TN
Gene Taylor - MS

would have voted yes

[defendandprotect]

63. A vote against this is a vote for homophobia . . .

indeed, to encourage it -- !!!

If I get a chance tomorrow, I will try to respond to them via their websites . . .

Dan Boren - OK
Bobby Bright - AL
Chris Carney - PA
Travis Childers - MS
Artur Davis - AL
Lincoln Davis -TN
Joe Donnelly -IN
Bart Gordon - TN
Parker Griffith - AL
Mike McIntyre - NC
Charlie Melancon - LA
Collin Peterson - MN
Mike Ross - AR
Heath Shuler - NC
John Tanner - TN
Gene Taylor - MS

[Norrin Radd]

66. Scumbags.

[happygoluckytoyou]

67. southerners didn't vote for it because it excluded barnyard animals

[elshiva]

68. Assholes. Even more shameful than voting against gay marriage.

I'm thinking about Brandon Teena and Sakia Gunn, too. :cry:

[KamaAina]

215. And Gwen Araujo, and... and...

...and how many more?

[LittleGirl]

69. text from Matthew Shepard Org site

http://www.matthewshepard.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Erase_Hate_Crimes_Legislation
The Matthew Shepard Act would strengthen existing federal hate crime laws in three ways:

1) Expand the law to authorize the Department of Justice to investigate and prosecute certain bias-motivated crimes based on the victim's actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or disability. Current law only includes race, color, religion or national origin.

2) Eliminate a serious limitation on federal involvment under existing law which requires that a victim of a bias-motivated crime was attacked because he/she was engaged in a specified federally-protected activity such as voting, serving on a jury or attending school.

3) Add "gender" and "gender identity" to the Hate Crimes Statistics Act

I'll be sending Joe Donnolly from Indiana my questions on why he couldn't support this bill. I'm so angry at him. I want answers.

[bluedawg12]

70. No money for bigots. Mid terms are coming. Wallet is closed. n/t

[LWolf]

76. Shame, indeed. nt

[ShortnFiery]

77. Just a potential observation - Are all these Democrats Male (men)?

If so, that is notable.

[Pacifist Patriot]

80. It looks to me as if they are.

[ShortnFiery]

92. If I had money and resources, it would be interesting to create personality profiles

of these remaining men. I wonder if there may be some deep seeded "fear" of homosexuality in some of their profiles? :shrug:

[Deep13]

82. Did you see Keith O yesterday?

A Congresswoman from NC (I forgot her name) just lied her ass off claiming that the murder was the result of a robbery and not because Shepard was gay.

[redqueen]

89. Didn't see it, but I'll check the transcript.

It'll be my pleasure to call her office and set her straight.

[bullwinkle428]

94. VIRGINIA FOXX is the vile succubus that chose to spit on the grave

of Matthew Shepherd yesterday - here it is in all of its gruesome glory:

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/10693/nc-congresswoman-virginia-foxx-evil-to-the-core

[Deep13]

140. Yeah, yesterday's Worst Person in the World.

Nice to see someone besides Glenn Beck or Billo for a change.

[mzmolly]

128. I saw that. As IF she has any idea about the motive. More proof Republicans make up their own

"facts" to suit their agenda.

[sinkingfeeling]

84. Mike Ross will only accept email from a zip code in his district. He's to the south of me, I'll try

to contact his Washington office.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

110. 1-800-828-0498 Use the phone

Capital Switchboard.

These Americans are despicable.

[myrna minx]

85. K&R n/t

[chill_wind]

87. K & R and bookmarked. Not to be forgotten.

eom

[Glorfindel]

88. Grrr..my congressperson is the vile Gene Taylor, DINO from hell

I'm not a bit surprised that he voted against it. He's more contemptible all the time.

[4_TN_TITANS]

93. WTF was Bart Gordon thinking?

He's usually good - good enough for me to campaign for him. I'm on his 'people you better damn well respond to list', this vote deserves a letter of complaint.

[Robeson]

101. Agree with you on Gordon...

...I'm off to write a letter.

[cbc5g]

95. There's no excuse for those Democrats doing that..they should be gone from the party

[NorthernSpy]

96. We can thank the Israel lobby for Artur Davis.

Until he was targeted for a takedown because of his concern for the human rights of Palestinians, Earl Hilliard represented Alabama's House District 7. Rep. Hilliard was LGBT-friendly: he voted in favor of extending benefits to same-sex couples, and also voted against barring gays and lesbians from adopting children in the District of Columbia.

Earl Hilliard was a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. He was one of the best. I still can't believe we let that happen to him.


Anyway, that's story behind one of the votes cast against the Matthew Shepard Act.

[Behind the Aegis]

166. Don't compound bigotry with more bigotry.

Your bullshit response just blames this on another group as opposed to where the blame really lies, the politician who voted against the act!

[NorthernSpy]

221. The actions of political lobbies are fair game for critique.

If you don't like the fact that people notice what the Israel lobby does -- tough!

It's not "bigotry" to refuse to extend some kind of special immunity from criticism to a political lobby. When it comes to criticism, political lobbies are the very definition of fair game.

[oberliner]

229. Artur Davis received $1,116,069 in PAC money in 2008 - $2,500 of it was from pro-Israel lobby groups

$52,000 from Real Estate industry lobbyists

$110,000 from the Insurance industry lobbyists

$172,000 from Health Care industry lobbyists

$4,000 from Anheuser-Busch

[Behind the Aegis]

232. Critques, yes; lies and propaganda, not so much.

Your post is bullshit because it blames someone other than the actual culprit, but then again, this type of behavior is typical of your posts.

[Jim Sagle]

208. You're welcome.

[Kajsa]

97. and disgust for all of them.

There is absolutely no excuse to vote against
the Matthew Shepard Act.

No true Democrat votes against civil rights for all.

[DS1]

100. OK, AL, PA, MS, AL,TN, IN, TN, AL, NC, LA, AR, NC, TN, MS (aka the All-Meth Revue)

MN gets a pass cause it's so fucked in the first place

[Patiod]

107. To be fair, it's CENTRAL PA, which is actually Appalachia

Strange, strange place.

[October]

134. Agreed.../nt

[Politicub]

109. The are despicable

Lower than dirt. Shame.

[Eyerish]

111. Absolutely disgraceful!

I used to be in Peterson's district and voted for him. :grr: His office will be getting a call from me today...

[NewJeffCT]

114. Didn't Michelle Bachmann say his death was a hoax?

or something like that.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

119. That would be Virginia Foxx (Crazyville-NC), who is giving Bachmann...

a run for her money.

NC Rep. Foxx calls hate crime murder case a 'hoax'
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKVhiJKrlAeZef28sPf4bXuiSRQwD97SSO200

(On edit: Bachmann may have as well, but I'm not aware ... think she was too busy blaming Swine Flu on Obama.)

[ThomCat]

120. It was Congressmember Foxx

x(

Republican from Batshit Crazy.

[Reterr]

123. Wow thats a new low

Even for these creatures....

[BrklynLiberal]

116. One can only hope that every one of those "nays", gets "nayed" right out of office ASAP.

[tomm2thumbs]

117. I think that list has a self-inflicted wound fetish - talk about shooting yourself in the face

the ads are already being written and produced against these idiots - the ads are already underway

remember those names - you won't be seeing them down the road:

Dan Boren - OK
Bobby Bright - AL
Chris Carney - PA
Travis Childers - MS
Artur Davis - AL
Lincoln Davis -TN
Joe Donnelly -IN
Bart Gordon - TN
Parker Griffith - AL
Mike McIntyre - NC
Charlie Melancon - LA
Collin Peterson - MN
Mike Ross - AR
Heath Shuler - NC
John Tanner - TN
Gene Taylor - MS

[Reterr]

122. What assholes......

John Tanner always makes me so proud :eyes:...

[leftcoastie]

125. They ALL

must be replaced in 2010.

[Tarc]

126. All but two hail from the South, what a shocker

[pardesidude7]

127. why

why vote against stopping hatred..isnt that just un humanitarian

[mzmolly]

129. K and R # 105

Horrible.

[lucretia54]

130. Thank you, great post.

[FudaFuda]

131. I'm opposed to mandatorily increasing punishment based on motive

Guess I'll give you all a punching bag for this thread (i.e. ME). I'm not a believer in mandatory additional punishment based on 'hate' as a motive. A murder results in a dead human being, regardless of the motivation behind the murderer's action. Same goes for any crime against the person. A raped woman is just as raped whether it was done because she 'looked good' to the perp, or because the perp wanted to force a man on her because she's a lesbian. There is no reason why the rapist who rapes a straight woman should be punished less than the rapist who rapes a lesbian. There is no reason a murderer who kills a white man should be punished less than a murderer who kills a black man. There is no reason a mugger who beats and robs an old woman for the change in her purse should be punished less than a mugger who beats and robs a gay man because he doesn't like gays.


Judicial discretion and sentence ranges, as well as the parole system, can accommodate variances in prison sentences based on viciousness of the crime and lack of remorse. Hate crimes laws only throw a wrench in the works and force uneven and unfair sentencing based on the thought behind the crime, rather than focus on the crime itself. For this reason, I'm opposed to hate crime legislation, including federal and state hate crime laws already on the books. To me, its no different than the mandatory federal sentencing guidelines that punish more severely for crack than for powder cocaine.

[Bluebear]

141. Hate crimes terrorize a whole community. You don't know what you're talking about.

[FudaFuda]

153. Any crime, by definition, is an affront and offense against all members of society.

But for people who support hate crime legislation, when two different criminals commit the same crime, one should be punished more severely because he picked on the wrong type of person.

As in Animal Farm, all are created equal. But some are more equal than others.

[Bluebear]

155. Let me guess: you're white, heterosexual and caucasian?

[FudaFuda]

159. yes I'm white AND caucasian, sharpie.

and my wife's japanese. and my sister's a lesbian. and my dog's neutered. and my beer is German.

[Bluebear]

160. I'm just asking, don't get defensive.

I just suggest that you don't know what it's like to be a minority, so you don't appreciate what hate crimes legislation will do for us. If somebody writes DIRTY JEW on someone's doorstep, you are in essence saying that it is just vandalism.

[FudaFuda]

163. I suggest you assume too much.

About 20 years ago I lived for two years in rural Japan, and was the only person from the western hemisphere, let alone of another race, for about 50 miles in any direction. I had people following me around in grocery stores to see what I'd buy, and I was refused entry to businesses regularly because I wasn't japanese. When I was seen out on a date with a local girl (before I figured out how things were) I was disciplined by my employer and ordered to stop seeing her. So it might not meet your test because it's never difficult to dismiss someone if you really want to, but yeah, I've lived as a minority. An extreme minority, in fact.

I was also an assistant prosecuting attorney for five years. My opinions come from some considerable experience with criminal jurisprudence.

[Bluebear]

173. Well, it's going to be law, so you would have to adjust your prosecutorial attitude.

Fortunately the day has arrived where GLBT people are slowly being recognized as a group which is often targeted.

[FudaFuda]

188. That's fine.

I'm not a prosecutor anymore, but this isn't something I'm horribly upset about either. I'm not gonna lose any sleep because a scumbag who hurt an innocent person gets a longer sentence for his crime. I'm on the side of innocent victims, regardless of the reason a crime was committed against them. I think the philosophy behind 'hate crime' laws is wrong, but as someone else noted below there are good intentions behind it.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

194. That's a horrible thing to say. Educate yourself about 20th and 19th century history.

The crime you mention is a terrorist act aimed at millions of people just because of their cultural and religious identity. It is far, far worse than simple vandalism.

Your example is a perfect example of why hate crime legislation is needed. And your example is also a demonstration of your own insensitivity and ignorance on this subject.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

199. Careful there. It sounds like you are giving the judge discretion...

....to increase the sentence because he "he picked on the wrong person"


Why can't the people/legislature have the same discretion? Why does that offend your sensibilities?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

225. And now you're TS'd!

Yay!

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

162. That's a misstatement of the intention of hate crimes legislation.

[FudaFuda]

164. I don't care about intentions - I care about effect. nt.

[yardwork]

168. Please share links to examples of this being caused by hate crimes legislation.

I'll be glad to read your examples.

[FudaFuda]

176. Hate crime laws = a MANDATORY sentence enhancement.

Every 'hate crime' conviction is an example.

This is no different than mandatory federal sentencing guidelines punishing crack more severely than powder cocaine.

[yardwork]

193. How are sentence enhancements a problem? Hate crimes are terrorism.

At least we're not waterboarding them. I'm opposed to the death penalty, too. But I do think that crimes designed to terrorize whole segments of the population - singling them out for attack, not just the general public - deserve to be punished more severely.

It's NOT the same as crack vs. powder cocaine.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

191. I find your credibility on this matter pretty close to zero when you make a stupid..

....statement such as this: "because he picked on the wrong type of person"

You are either boiling it down the ridiculous to be intentionally obtuse or you are not really an attorney.

You know damn well it goes beyond who "gets picked on" .... just like other crimes, such as murder, the intent and motive can be used to charge a more serious crime.

[dem629]

145. Yep. There's a good reason why motive isn't an element of a crime.

I'm in favor of long, harsh sentences for anyone who commits acts of violence against another person, and the death penalty in many murder cases.

[Bluebear]

146. Hate crimes terrorize a whole community, not just the victim.

Don't you know that?

[dem629]

147. Lots of crimes do, regardless of motive.

But I'm not sure what that point has to do with the good reasons for motive not being an essential legal element of a crime.

[Bluebear]

149. OK 'dem'. Have it your way.

[dem629]

150. Okay, 'blue'. I'll do that.

Oh, no! Someone put quotes around the "dem" in my handle! Feel free to apply any litmus test to me that you wish -- whatever makes you feel better.

It's quite apparent from your responses that you have no defense of your position, and that's probably due to the fact that you are clueless about the necessary legal distinction between intent and motive.

Carry on.

[Bluebear]

151. You're been pretty clueless about most progressive issues since you arrived.

Ciao.

[dem629]

154. All you have is personal attacks and anger.

You have nothing of substance or logic, so therefore your analysis of anyone's political beliefs is absolutely worthless. Much like the vast majority of your posts.

Buh-bye. This place will be much more enjoyable and rational with you on the ignore list.

[Bluebear]

156. Not at all. I have noticed your posting behavior since day 1 and endorse your ignoring me.

I could care less.

[Solon]

171. Motive has always been factored into why a crime was committed...

Otherwise we wouldn't have things like difference in sentencing for Manslaughter, 2nd degree murder, 1st degree murder, etc.

Intent, pre-planning, and motivation for the crime all are a factor in what you are charged with if you commit a crime, in addition to any sentencing enhancements, all bills like the Matthew Shepard act do is add another option in for DA's, Juries, and Judges to add to a sentence.

[dem629]

172. Wrong. That's intent, not motive.

Motive is not a legal element of a crime and never has to be proved.

[Bluebear]

177. "Motive is not a legal element of a crime" - I know you have me on ignore but that's ridiculous.

[Solon]

182. If its never considered a legal element of a crime, then why are there...

different statutes to cover things such as murder? Someone who kills in the "heat of the moment" is more likely to be charged with a lesser charge than someone who killed "in cold blood" as it were.

[dem629]

185. That's intent, not motive.

The difference between manslaughter and, say, first-degree murder, for example, is not the person's reason (motive) for committing the act, it's strictly their state of mind as it relates to what they intended to do and whether they intended to do it, not why they did it.

[Solon]

189. If that's the case, then how are the two differentiated in law?

For example, if someone intended to bash in a gay person's skull because they are gay(and actually carried it out), isn't that both intent and motivation? And wouldn't both be factored in as an element of the crime?

[dem629]

190. When you put the "because" in the scenario...

that's when you start mixing intent and motive.

The bashing of the skull is the act. That's the crime. The "why" is not required to be proved, only the level of intent.

Turn it around for a minute and you'll see why it's important that motive is not a legal element of a crime:

You're on a jury. The prosecutors have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Person A planned for months to murder Person B. They give you every planning stage, including maps, the murder weapon with the prints on it...everything. The person is 100% guilty of carrying out the murder, and you have no doubts about it or how it was done or who did it.

However, the prosecution is not able to tell you WHY the person did it. Revenge? Money? Snuffing out a witness to another one of their crimes? The prosecution can't tell you WHY.

Do you let that person walk, or do you reduce the sentence based on the inability of the prosecution to tell you WHY it happened?

[Solon]

192. But most hate crime statutes usually cover the sentencing stage, not the trial stage...

indeed, I find it puzzling that you think this will cause blowback by causing people to walk from murder if motivation can't be proven, they may not be able to get a sentence enhancement for bias crime later, but in a case of planning a murder for months, that's first degree, but not all murders reach that level of planning. Indeed, some are considered "spur of the moment" acts, which usually involve a lesser charge and sentence, an obvious example is the "gay panic" defense, which I believe this bill eliminates as a valid defense, and indeed would backfire on the defense themselves, as a similar defense backfired on the killer of Angie Zapata.

[dem629]

195. That's why I asked what you would do

and gave the option of a lesser sentence, regardless of how heinous the crime may have been.

I'm not saying it would cause a blowback in every case, but by introducing it at all, you do run that risk.

And, for the record, I'm in favor of long, harsh sentences for anyone who commits an act of violence against another person, including the death penalty in most, if not all, murder cases. Interestingly, I have talked to many people who are in favor of harsher sentences if motive can be proved, but they recoil at my position of true life sentences without the possibility of parole for any and all violent crime and of course the death penalty as well. I think the across-the-board strict sentencing is tougher than anything offered by this current topic, and it's based on longstanding legal doctrine dealing with elements of crimes.

PS - I appreciate the civil discussion.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

186. Motive doesn't HAVE to be proved but where it CAN be PROVED it CAN be taken in to consideration.

That's what you "a murder is a murder" people can't seem to grasp. That simply "killing the wrong victim" isn't the trigger to charge a hate crime. It's the provable motive that has to be proved to a JUDGE OR JURY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT to reach the level of a hate crime.

A murder for insurance proceeds has always been worse than a murder in a heat-of-passion bar-fight.

A murder or beating to "send a message that we don't want no fags around here" is worse than a murder or beating in a bar-fight.


Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?

[dem629]

187. You're confusing motive and intent, which I've addressed in two other posts.

Your two examples are about intent, as well, which is covered in the degree of murder, or manslaughter.

It has nothing to do with the "why" of the crime. Your two examples differ in the amount (if any) of planning and forethought to carry out the act, not "why" a person carried out the act.

[dem629]

184. Here's a good explanation of why motive is not a legal element of a crime.

From a sample of jury instructions: (edit: by the way, this is the first one I found. It's from CT, but this is standard procedure)

2.6-2 Motive

Revised to December 1, 2007

The law does not require that the state, in a criminal case, prove a motive, because it is not an element of the crime. It is not necessary for the state to prove what reason the defendant may have had for committing the crime charged.

Because crimes are generally committed for some motive, evidence of a motive may tend to prove the guilt of a defendant. In the same manner, if there appears no adequate motive on the part of the defendant to commit the crime, that may tend to raise a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the defendant. <Identify the evidence introduced as to motive.>

If the existence of a motive can be reasonably inferred, that may tend to prove the defendant 's guilt. If no motive can be inferred, it may or may not raise a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the defendant. If the absence of a motive does not raise a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty, then the fact that the state has not proved what the defendant's motive was does not prevent you from returning a verdict of guilty.

You'll notice the last sentence, which could end up causing huge problems in the legal system (i.e. guilty going free) if we were to ever require motive to be proved in court. If the state couldn't prove the motive (which they are now NOT required to do) but proved all other elements, then in that scenario, they person could walk. These legislative efforts to criminalize motive could backfire in court all the time.

[Two Americas]

196. the crimes are different

Ii is not merely a matter of motive or intent. By your logic, murder and theft should be seen as the same crime since the only different is the intent or motive - the one person wanted to kill someone and the other person wanted to rob.

Hate crimes are crimes against all people in the targeted group. How people here can fail to see that - or deny that they do for whatever reason - is a mystery.


...

[dem629]

198. Because the law rightly sees a difference between motive and intent.

No one suggested that murder and theft should be seen as the same crime. You are confusing motive and intent, which is why you wrongly inferred that conclusion.

The difference is being discussed just above. It's a good discussion.

[Two Americas]

no I am not

I am no confusing motive and intent. I am not talking about them at all.

I am saying that a hate crime that results in a death is a different crime than murder.

Respond to that point.


...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

197. "Does not require"

"If the existence of a motive can be reasonably inferred, that may tend to prove the defendant 's guilt."

Yes, if a motive can be proved, the charge can be elevated to a hate crime by way of intent. Otherwise, the regular crime of murder/assault can stay as is. The defendant won't "go free" . They will merely be charged with a lesser offense - assuming all other aspects can be proved.

[dem629]

200. The "if" and "reasonably" and "may tend to" point to exactly why

you'd never want to codify motive into the elements of a crime.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

201. The justice system is a little more complicated and able than you pretend.

You seem to be under the impression that failure to prove the hate crime elevation will allow the defendant to go free even if the crime was still proved.

That's simply not true.

[dem629]

202. No.

I'm not saying it's a given. I am pointing out the fact that if you introduce such an element, it can have equal weight either way in a jury's (or judge's, in the case of a bench trial) decision to reduce a charge or sentence, or even determine that the prosecution didn't prove their case in chief.

This is a bad idea on many levels.

As I said to another poster above: I'm in favor of long, harsh sentences for anyone who commits an act of violence against another person, including the death penalty in most, if not all, murder cases. Interestingly, I have talked to many people who are in favor of harsher sentences if motive can be proved, but they recoil at my position of true life sentences without the possibility of parole for any and all violent crime and of course the death penalty as well. I think the across-the-board strict sentencing is tougher than anything offered by this current topic, and it's based on longstanding legal doctrine dealing with elements of crimes.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

204. Well. I don't agree with your desire for a "one size fits all" system of justice.

Like I said, things are a little more complicated than that.

Where hate bias can be proven, it should be used. That's not to say straight people should go to jail for bumping in to a gay man on the street or for "picking on the wrong guy" as our resident "attorney" said up-thread.

You see, the thing is, gay bashers are not the smartest bulbs in the box. They tend to make statements of their motivation to police and their cohorts tend to roll over and squeal like little pigs.

They just wanted to beat him bad enough to teach him a lesson, not to come on to straight people, and don’t be aggressive about it anymore."

Said Kristen Price (McKinney's girlfriend)in Price's first interview with 20/20 in 1998.

[JonLP24]

209. Most if not all murder cases?

Are you least bit worried that innocent people will be killed with no chance to later prove their innocence? That is crazy! Especially in a trial system that is more about winning then finding out the truth. Also a system where rich or well off people can afford a better defense then someone who is poor.

[dem629]

203. I've enjoyed the civil discussions. Time to go out to dinner. Didn't want anyone to think

I was ignoring their responses. I appreciate the civil discussions.

[Vanje]

157. So

If a vandal spray paints swastikas on a synagog wall, by your reckoning, that would be no worse than if a vandal sprays , "BILL + TIFFANY 4-EVER TRU LOVE!" on that wall?

[Puzzler]

132. Yes, "Shame!" indeed!!!!

.

[Tatiana]

133. Disgusting bastards. n/t

[Raster]

135. SHAME does not even begin to cover it.

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dem629]

144. Uh oh. Watch out.

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solon]

165. "All crimes of violence are hate crimes."

Uhm, actually, no that's not necessarily true, indeed, many are motivated by things like greed(robberies for one), and there are many other motivations as well. Even crimes that are motivated by hate, things such as envy, revenge, etc. are usually against a single individual or a small but specific group of individuals, oddly enough, people usually related to the killer, or at least known to them. Bias crimes are in a different category of hate, one that is much more impersonal, and yet much more dangerous, people who commit such crimes generally only knew the victim briefly, if at all, and targeted them based on some specific trait that is common among a certain group of people, usually of a specific protected class(race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.)

In addition, there are still areas in this country where, while you probably can't get away with outright killing a GLBT person, the chances are, you will get a slap on the wrist, and in some cases won't get caught at all. Think of what happened in the 1960s, with all the KKK members, some of which are still rotting in jail today, for terrorist activities, but they are sitting in Federal Prison, for federal crimes, because local and state authorities simply couldn't convict them of their crimes because it wasn't considered a big deal to kill or terrorize black people in certain areas of the country.

This was an expansion of Federal power, absolutely, but it was also sorely needed, just like the Matthew Shepard act is sorely needed today.

[Midlodemocrat]

167. Horseshit. If I get murdered tonight because someone wants to jack

my car, that's a crime of greed, it's not a crime based on whether or not I'm gay. (I'm not. I'm married for almost 20 years and have three kids)

To deny that certain groups, ESPECIALLY the GLBT community is the target of hate crimes is beyond fucking ignorant.

[Bluebear]

174. 25 posts in 2 years and you were inspired to tell us to "Get over it."

Disgraceful.

[Behind the Aegis]

175. The only bullshit here is yours and the poster above blaming the Israel Lobby.

Someone else has already schooled you on how how not all crimes of violence are hate crimes. Your hypothetical could be applied to a variety of current laws. The issue is how laws are used and any law could be misued. However, there is a need for hate crimes laws. So, you get over it.

[Catherine Vincent]

180. Get over what?

[Starry Messenger]

181. Your post makes very little sense to me.

:shrug: Actually, if we had it my way, the hanging nooses that touched off the tensions that led to "Jena 6" would be a hate crime. Saying that "Black people assaulting white people with their shoes will be a race crime" (whatever that is...where did "hate crime" become "race crime"???) shows no understanding of what these laws are in place for.

Sorry. I'm glad you aren't in charge.

[Zuiderelle]

211. Who told you this was libertarianunderground?

Hate crimes are a very different thing than most other crimes. Get over it.

[Jamastiene]

218. No, your characterization of hate crimes legislation is bullshit.

I thought Jessie Helms was dead. I see you memorized all his talking points though. I guess you are at least capable of memorizing right wing talking points. Are you good for anything else? I doubt it.

[sniffa]

219. "Black people assaulting white people with their shoes"

Fredda?

[jonnyblitz]

169. wow, look at all the right wing talking points used against hate

crime laws on this thread here at DU. did I just log onto Free Republic by mistake? Virginia Foxx has a fan club right here at DU it seems. :puke:

[Bluebear]

178. And you notice, some people can't help themselves. It's Pavlovian.

They can't pass by without leaving their scent.

[jonnyblitz]

179. it's more like STENCH. i have little patience with this BULLSHIT.

i have been hearing these rightwing talking points AGAINST Hate Crime Legislation for YEARS but never from people who claim to be PROGRESSIVES until i started participating here at DU.

[Dragonfli]

212. Just because someone claims to be progressive doesn't mean they are

I fucking hate all the right wing assholes with false ideological handles bringing that garbage here. Realize this: Now that thugs, bigots,corporate whores, and nazi's can find no power in the party that embraces their garbage they are tripling the infiltration efforts that were begin by local thugs in various districts that have gone Dino just to get elected.

They already have an infiltration base in the DLC and blue-dogs and will, if allowed, take over the party from within and gain power that way.

My rule of thumb, if it quacks like a duck, has feathers and webbed feet, I don't care what corporate think tank calls them puppies and markets them as puppies, they are ducks nonetheless.

IMO, and I admit there are those that disagree the Dems are not at all in the majority, false flags are confusing the numbers, fully one third or more of elected Democrats are no such thing and they know it. The most obvious are the corporate infiltrators. Namely the DLC. But there are others. Be discouraged by the infiltration but take comfort in the fact that that shite will not be typed by progressives here.

I think I know you from a more specifically progressive board that is dear to my heart, You would not likely remember me as I am not a prolific poster anywhere I participate. But if you do :hi:

[jonnyblitz]

227. I don't post on other boards but a friendly hello to you anyway!

you must be mistaking me for somebody else. :o :hi:

[vaberella]

183. Are you kidding me?! I'm disgusted. n/t

[Enthusiast]

206. K&R. I've heard these DINOs

explain that gays want 'special rights'. A right wing Democrat is no better than a fucking Republican.

[Dragonfli]

220. Worse, they are RW infiltrators

They would like to take over our party because theirs has become un-electable in most sane and educated areas of the country.

[Enthusiast]

223. +1. Right wing infiltrators. nt

[KamaAina]

216. Artur Davis?!

Cross him off KamaAina's List of Up'n'Coming Progressives to Watch. :grr:

And give him a Colbertian Wag Of The Finger, too.

[NorthernSpy]

224. HOW did you get the idea that Artur Davis might be progressive?

The man he replaced was a progressive.


Artur Davis has rarely been anything but awful.