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There's been no change in the US occupation of Iraq

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:09 PM
Original message
There's been no change in the US occupation of Iraq
Edited on Sun Apr-26-09 09:51 PM by bigtree
OUR military is still staging arbitrary and ignorant raids on the Iraqi population. Our forces there haven't seen any substantial decrease. The mission is still bogged down in fighting the resistance; claiming as Bush did that there is some national interest in 'succeeding' in their perpetual defense of the increasingly independent and partisan Maliki regime as if it was some direct reflection of all of the rhetoric used by the Obama Pentagon to justify staying.

I think the folks who've beat those who've complained about business as usual in Iraq under Obama over the head with his rhetoric have essentially walked away from the pressure which compelled the politicians to move away from their support of the occupation in the first place.

It's all so convenient to go back to Obama's flowing rhetoric in announcing his withdrawal plan and insist that we WAIT and wait for the promised disengagement, but there has been virtually NO effort from those defenders of the Obama administration's Iraq policy and activity to hold them to account for even their own reasons for continuing the military operation there. All we get are those nebulous excuses about pottery barns and our supposed responsibility to secure some sort of pretty ending to America's anti-democratic use of force against the Iraqi population.

The Iraq occupation is still as immoral and wrong as it was before we put a Democrat in the White House. In effect, and until the promised reduction of force after the Iraqi 'elections', our military is still engaged in an abomination of humanity. It's hard for me to find any meaningful difference in the blithe way that abomination is being defended by Democrats from the manner in which the occupation was defended under the last administration.

Pointing to Obama's full embrace of Bush's cynical 'agreement' with the Maliki regime (forced through at the end of his presidency to enhance his 'legacy'), as evidence of a 'change' in Iraq policy, is an insult to our years of advocacy and activism against the illegal invasion and occupation.

It may not be as surprising, as I may think, though, to see the dumbfounded silence from defenders of Obama policy toward Iraq in response to the arrogant abrogations of the petty treaty in the persistent American command and control of our military forces in the continuing, collaterally deadly raids against the supposedly sovereign population. It has to burn, somewhere deep in the soul of their original opposition to the Bush regime's self-perpetuating militarism.

This morning's opportunistic raid and tragic killings by U.S. military forces was almost immediately met with charges of criminality by the Iraqi government and demands that those responsible stand accountable before the Iraqi courts; including two senior Iraqi commanders to be held accountable for their (illegal under the SOFA) role in allowing the unauthorized assault.

The military initially gave their standard defenses for the tragedy - which took the life of an innocent woman and resulted in the release later in the day of those detained in the raid and an apology from the U.S. command - citing an interest in capturing alleged 'financiers' of the Shiite resistance with 'ties to Iran'. Here's how the NYT described the raid and the resulting clusterfuck:

According to the American military and witnesses, American troops arrived early Sunday at a house belonging to a local sheik, Ahmed Abdul Sada. The military’s statement said the troops opened fire when “an individual with a weapon came out of the home.”

“Forces assessed him to be hostile, and they engaged the man, killing him,” the American statement said. “During the engagement, a woman in the area moved into the line of fire and was also struck by gunfire.”

The American statement said that troops arrested six people, including Sheik Ahmed, suspected of belonging to the Mahdi Army and the Promise Day Brigade, both Shiite militias suspected of carrying out attacks against American and Iraqi forces.

By late afternoon, however, the men returned home. Sheik Ahmed said in an interview on Sunday evening that his wife, in a panic, had picked up a rifle when the Americans burst into their home in the middle of the night. “If the Americans had only knocked, we would have cooperated,” he said. “Instead they came from four corners.”


Along with the promise to withdraw, Obama has included in his justifications, much of the same nonsense as the last bunch about fighting 'terrorists' and 'defending' our interests' in Iraq that the last administration used as their own political cover through the elections to avoid ending the occupation and admitting the utter defeat and failure of Americans there to secure even many of their own imperialist interests and ambitions. It's unclear what the bottom line will be for the Obama administration in their pursuit of the same; albeit with better rhetoric and a more realistic prospect of some sort of disengagement from Iraq in the (near?) future.

What is our national interest in shooting innocent Iraqis dead on their doorstep?

What's clear is that, whatever rhetoric that's been offered to convince that we're ultimately leaving Iraq remains subordinate to the justifications for remaining engaged that have been cut-and-pasted from the Bush playbook. In fact, the two rationales (leaving eventually and defending our 'interests') are actually polar opposites. In order for one ambition to 'succeed', the other must be abandoned. To expect that sort of decisiveness from the prevaricating establishment (and their wistful support) which perpetuates the militarism in Iraq is, perhaps, a pipe dream, but, that doesn't mean we shouldn't still insist they make that ideological leap into action without delay.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. kn r nt
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Illegal, unjustifiable wars ..
Edited on Sun Apr-26-09 09:25 PM by Why Syzygy
Habeas Corpus, Homeland Security, Patriot Act, use of mercenaries, not just abroad but at home, winking at (past) torture, wire tapping citizens ..

All things I expected to improve with a Democratic administration.
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mtowngman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. "justifications...that have been cut and pasted..."
are turning me from hopeful to disappointed.

It was a one issue election for me, and even though I knew it wouldn't be over by the end of January, I wasn't expecting to hear any more "defending our interests" balony.
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Fireweed247 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
:grr:
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. We elected Johnson and got Goldwater; we elected Obama....
... and got Clinton - McCain.

The more things change....
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-27-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. K&R n/t
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-27-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. an update on Iraqi reaction to raid
Edited on Mon Apr-27-09 10:14 AM by bigtree
WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/27/AR2009042701159_pf.html

Iraqi politicians on Monday demanded that Iraqi courts be allowed to try U.S. soldiers who killed two people in a raid that the Baghdad government has called a crime.

"What happened on Sunday shows the barbaric, brutal and criminal nature of U.S. forces," said Ahmed al-Masoudi, a parliamentary spokesman for supporters of anti-American Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.

"We must fulfil the articles of the pact by sending the personnel who committed this crime to Iraqi courts to prosecute them. The credibility of the U.S. and Iraq's so-called sovereignty are now facing a real test . . ."
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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-27-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. It's now a Democratic war run by President Obama.
Can't pawn it off on the Republicans forever, especially since it never would've started without Democratic complicity.

How's it feel to be the War Party now?

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Fireweed247 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-27-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
8. kick
:kick:
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-27-09 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. While I share Bigtree's concerns, we have to realize that the "winding down" phase is
still part of a war. Warlike actions will continue to take place, including killing many, many more innocents. Just because a withdrawal is in the works does not mean that everyone joins hands and sings Kumbaya.

Most likely, as we withdraw more and more forces the inter-Iraqi strife will ramp up. This bloodbath that is called the Iraq War is probably going to get worse as we leave, even though there will still be lots of our troops and mercenaries there trying to "keep the peace".

This is a very tragic and sad result of the invasion that will leave a bitter taste for many years to come--in Iraq as well as here in the "Homeland".


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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-27-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I don't buy much of that
Edited on Mon Apr-27-09 04:07 PM by bigtree
The only way that the occupation could credibly 'wind down' would be to abandon the impossible goal of the US being ultimately responsible for 'stability' in Iraq. Right now, our forces are still being used to prosecute the Pentagon's grudge match against the Iraqi resistance. That resistance will never be permanently defeated or pacified by our forces. In fact, our very presence allows those groups to attract other Iraqis who are compelled to their own violent expressions of self-determination and liberty which our forces disregard as mere threats to their consolidation of power. That effort is just holding a finger in the dike. The only question in Iraq is WHEN the U.S. will disengage, not when the U.S. is going to achieve some sort of defining success which would enable them to effect the clean exit some suppose they're working toward with their lingering assaults and raids.

There may well be a 'bloodbath' in Iraq when we leave. That doesn't mean we should assume our troops' presence or activity is the solution. I think the entire occupation has proven that they are the ultimate aggravation in Iraq, not the liberating force they pretend.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I didn't say we should not leave OR that we should try to be responsible for the stability
of Iraq.

You seem to think that our presence is currently the reason for so much of the bloodshed in Iraq, when it WAS the reason when we destablilized the country after Saddam's overthrow, but NOW I think the major problem is the Sunni-Shia-Kurd power struggle. Even if we were able to yank our hundreds of thousands of troops out in two weeks, that would not be a catalyst for peace. The peace will come when the Iraqis resolve their internal differences and get the power hierarchy established. That is very unlikely to be a peaceful process.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. the point in criticizing our military presence in Iraq
. . . is to counter the notion that keeping our troops in place is a productive pursuit. I apologize if I mischaracterized your opinion, but I thought you were saying that the years Obama has chosen to drawdown the forces is a necessary and ultimately effective way to keep the violence you describe at bay. Check the numbers from just this last year. Our forces are sustaining less casualties because they're going on less raids and policing less. The Iraqi population, however, is still under siege from continuing bombings and killings from disparate, rival factions. Our forces haven't been doing much more to protect or defend the population against those attacks than engage in these arbitrary, collaterally devastating raids at the behest of the beleaguered Maliki regime. And, there - in that flailing defense of their green-zoned junta is where we find the root motivator of the violent resistance. The first solution to any reconciliation will be to remove the major instigator of that violence; the U.S. forces which even the Bush intelligence agencies collectively determined were "fueling and fostering" more individuals bent on violent resistance in Iraq than they could effectively put down.

It's just not credible for anyone to assert that our invading and occupying forces in Iraq are peacekeepers. They are still there, primarily, to conduct "counter-terrorism" missions and to protect what the president termed, our "strategic interests."
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thank you for offering the apology, but I didn't take offense.
No, I didn't intend to imply that a slow withdrawal would help alleviate the violence or even slow it down.

Over the last seven or eight months I thought we were just trying to keep our troops in the background, but recently it seems that we have become more offensive (in more ways than one) and are taking more casualties and causing more harm to innocents. it's a hopeless situation and one we need to get away from as quickly as possible. I'm very disappointed, but not surprised, that President Obama has chosen to leave so many "advisors/trainers" in Iraq after our main force is withdrawn. Just more imperialism at work.

P.S. I wonder what we're going to do with all of those big, hardened bases we've built.

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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-27-09 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. Obama made a PROMISE...One Brigade a Month would Leave Iraq
He made a PROMISE..........
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TheMachineWins Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-27-09 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Just being there is a war crime, a conspiracy to commit war that is continued
It is not justified in any way, shape or form. I don't care about any promises being broken, I care about my country's involvement in war crimes. There is no excuse or reason for keeping a military occupation of Iraq, it's a complete fraud.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-27-09 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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