Do You Think Heavy Duty Torture Videos/Photographs Will Be Surfacing?

[KittyWampus]

This is pure conjecture on our part. But gut-feeling?

There is some awful stuff already made public.

I can't help but keep wondering if there are some videos or photos that will be leaked and they will be the other shoe to drop.

It would be advantageous if public opinion were turned fully away from the criminals who infested our government.

Maybe this is a two part question- does someone somewhere have a cache of hideous photos? Will they go public?

[mmonk]

1. No, not unless it's forced.

[NightWatcher]

2. the Pentagon has up to 2000 more photos that probably show some nasty stuff

These will be released as the cry for torture investigations reach a peak next month.

[BeFree]

3. Almost as if...

...they were following some kind of a soap-opera type script, eh?

[NightWatcher]

7. almost like Obama knows what he's doing

HE's not going to push for investigations, but if the public outcry is there what can he do? Then he doesnt look like he's pushing partisan investigations.

Obama's playing chess on this issue. How many times during the election did he look like he didnt know what he was doing only to have "things work out". I remember the excellent way he used the Edwards endorsement right after Hillary staged her biggest primary win. He owned the news cycle then and with McSame. He knows what he's doing.

[BeFree]

14. Well

He'd better, because if he doesn't he will be eaten alive, either by we Liberals, or the neo-cons and the media.

If this was planned out long ago they sure have kept the plans hidden well. I wonder what else he's got up his sleeve? Ya know, it's almost magical the way Obama has done what he's done, no wonder some folks call it the Obama Magic.

[KittyWampus]

5. that is what I am thinking. We will see. Career members will have the last say...

and I bet they are smart enough to USE the moles that Cheney planted in their ranks.

[KharmaTrain]

4. Heavy?

What constitutes light torture with heavy torture?

We know that some of the most incriminating tape have been destroyed, but there's surely others out there. I've long felt, cheeeney and his henchmen probably watch them and get all excited. Also, I could see them releasing them clandestinely in 2012 to embarass President Obama if he tries to "move forward" and leaves this criminal enterprise operational.

I've already heard of pictures that have been supboenaed and if the memos came out, I can't see why the pictures won't.

But does it matter? Do we need pictures to prove the booooosh regime tortured? We've got far better. Their own words. That should be good enough to prosecute and indict.

[KittyWampus]

6. the thread is referencing the PHOTOGRAPHS/VIDEOS, and I thought that was clear.

And I'm a little surprised you, of all people, don't recognize the value of shaping public opinion and how visual evidence helps do just that.

[KharmaTrain]

9. If That's What It Takes...

We've already had enough pictures



Do we need more?

By making it a sensational video/photo show, you saw how it worked the last time. They found the small fry, declared the torture as "some bad apples" and those who weren't in the pictures but gave the orders got away with it.

At this point, anyone who somehow needs convincing that this country "didn't torture" won't be swayed by any pictures or other disclosures...and may they rot in hell.

I'm more concerned with a jury of one right now...Eric Holder. It's up to him to push this investigation to the next level...and I'm sure he's seen plenty of graphic material.

I don't see how releasing more pictures would change this equation...just sayin'...

Cheers...

[KittyWampus]

11. It was minimized as "a few bad apples" because NeoCons were able to control things

to a much greater extent.

If a new cache was released, the illusion of "a few bad apples" would no longer be accepted by the public.

[KharmaTrain]

16. Accepted by the Public?

Nothing personal here, but if someone needs convincing that the booooosh regime tortured and still don't believe it, they're in total denial....the 25% dead end tea baggers who watch 24 and support torture. The vast majority, fortunately, aren't of the same mindset...and we saw it this week with the large outrage that followed Emanuel and Axelrod trying to "move forward"...instead, this issue was front and center in the corporate media all week.

Honestly, if someone needs to be convinced any more than what we've seen already, either they're not paying attention and don't care or live in full denial and will never change their blood-soaked, paranoid brain stems.

I'm cynical cause of how the corporate media handled the '05 pictures...it became a titilation...eye candy...a diversion from what we were beginning to learn at that time. But if it's the release of more pictures that AG Holder uses as justification for moving forward with investigations and prosecutions...that's another story...

[KittyWampus]

17. Well, at one time a majority of Americans believed Saddam Hussein perpetrated 9/11

And that is no longer the case. Sadly, many still believer Saddam was involved but it's no longer a majority.

And as some have stated, whatever does happen concerning accountability with torture can't have Obama's fingerprints on it.

Looking back over Obama's political rise, he's very, very good at getting things to not just work out, but to seem that they just somehow did so of their own accord.

Obama is either the most consistently lucky politician who ever lived or he and his team are extremely good at strategy.

Back to torture-

There is a lot of misinformation already out there about what was actually done.

And now the topic is back in the news, the blowhards are treating us to a new round of spin.

From another DU'er:

And there are talkingheads right now working "the message that the definition of "torture" has been expanded to nothing worse than putting someone into a room with a caterpillar.

They are trying to link this to the image of liberals as wimpy snowflakes who do not even want naughty children to be disciplined and cannot possibly be trusted to protect a country.

They are repeating that these techniques consisted of nothing worse than is done to soldiers at boot camp or volunteers at an Outward Bound retreat.

I just heard a 30-minute segment on Washington Journal in which the guest speaker described the construction of false, collapsing walls so that detainees being thrown into them would not be harmed at all. The callers were given the message that it takes an unusually HUMANE country to go to such lengths to prevent harm to prisoners.

Many reasonable people will be swayed by these types of arguments, if they are allowed to believe that this is the worst that was done. If they can be convinced that "tricky" but non-harmful interrogations will prevent another 9/11, then they will side with those justifying "strong tactics."

They have not heard the stories we see at DU. That is why the release of information is so important, and why the defenders of Bush and company are so nervous right now."

A well timed release of heinous photographic evidence or video will dispel this crap. Let the idiots do their spin now and rip it to shreds later on.

[KharmaTrain]

19. 100 Days...

Again...I'm all for bringing out every Torture memo and photos...but if this is what it takes to get our own government and judicial system to get off it's ass...it says there's far bigger problems with this country.

That said...and again...I'm with you 99.9% of the way here...this is more about style than substance. I believe and polls show that a majority of Americans do believe the boooosh regime tortured and why there is a clamor now to investigate, not move forward. I saw the corporate media have to backtrack in recent weeks as they, too, see that the "prevailing winds" is for the long-overdue "debate" on this issue. Sadly this should have happened in 2005 or 07, but we are where we are. At least we're not getting the steady Jack Bauer justifications from anyone but the dittoheads and appologists.

Remember, Wsahington Journal and C-SPIN are tilted to the right...the AEI all but lives in their studios. It used to be that I'd see sockpuppets on there and get outraged as their talking points then went onto hate radio shows and ended up at "major stories" on the evening news and cable shows. That's no longer the case...fortunately...and the wingnuts they bring on there get more defensie by the day. THey now offer a insight into their parallel universe...important to know it's there, but not to help give their talking points legs or their sockepuppets any credibility.

Again...this matter sits with one person...AG Holder...and I trust his judgement. He's spoken out against torture prior to being AG and here is a chance for the DOJ to restore its independence. Thus I do expect him to name a Special Prosecutor in the days ahead and move this issue from political to criminal...then let's see where the evidence leads. If that means more pictures, so be it.

Keep in mind, just like other issues, the Obama Administration has only been at work for 100 days...and many of the things we here long suspected are coming to the fore. Yes, we knew it and many others either didn't see it or want to believe it, but then they chose to ignore as much as we chose to become more involved. I don't see those lines changing now. I've long felt this issue was way beyond our political and judicial system...and have called for international investigations and prosecutions, thus the fact that AG Holder is leaning toward investigating is a far cry that what we saw with Muck-Assey, Gonzo and anything that came before.

The more the defenders of torture spin, the more they draw attention to the crimes they participated in. Yep, a majority believed Iraq was involved with 9/11...in 2004. I don't think the same could be said today. Attitudes from 2005 have changed as well. Then it was a debate about "if we torture"...now it's "how bad we tortured".

Cheers...and thanks for a lively and well thought out discussion....

[Mari333]

18. everything needs to see the light of day imho

everything.

[KharmaTrain]

20. Agreed...1000%

Mari...no stone should be unturned here...but as part of a trial...in pressing a case to bring those who came up with these conveulted and heinous acts and codified them. My concern with photos is they make "stars" of those in them and give cover to those we don't see. I want the light shone on the biggest criminals...those who were safely tucked away in Washington, never served a day in the military yet could define what "pain" is...incredible.

Yep...they all need to come out, but not to convince people we need to prosecute...but to document.

Cheers...

[Mari333]

21. I would also like to see

real time pictures and videos of what we have done and are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan..the real deal..no more sanitized crap...all over the news...until then, its out of sight, out of mind, amongst the populace..

[CrispyQ]

26. I would like to see photos of all the schools & hospitals we've built or upgraded.

I want to see the water sanitation plants & electrical facilities with thier new upgrades & technology. And I don't mean the ones inside the fucking green zone. :eyes:

America loves reality shows, so let's give them one. Let's select ten 'average' Iraqis, follow them around for a few weeks with a video cam & let's find out what their day-to-day life is really like. If Americans had to live like that, the whining would wipe out the noise of the universe.

[lazer47]

13. My question exactly, what is heavy???

[jaxx]

8. I keep remembering after the first pics were released,

that they said they would release more and they were worse than what we had seen. I don't think they ever released them. Who knows what will be in these.

[Spazito]

10. Photos are to be released by the 28th of next month

U.S. to release photos showing alleged abuses by American personnel

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration agreed late Thursday to release dozens of photographs depicting alleged abuse by U.S. personnel during the Bush administration of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan.

At least 44 pictures will be released by May 28 -- making public for the first time images of what the military investigated as abuse that took place at facilities other than the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Defense Department officials would not say exactly what is contained in the photos, but said they are concerned that the release could incite a backlash in the Middle East.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-obama-interrogationapr24,0,1567604.story

Barack Obama to release up to 2,000 photographs of prisoner abuse

The decision to make public the images sought in a legal action by the American Civil Liberties Union comes amid a political firestorm over alleged torture of detainees under President George W. Bush.

Some of the photographs, which will be released before May 28, are said to show American service personnel humiliating prisoners, according to officials.

Descriptions of some of the alleged abuse photographs include:

* A prisoner pushed up against a wall as military guards or interrogators appear to threaten to sexually assault him with a broomstick

* Female soldiers posing with hooded, shackled prisoners who were stripped naked

* Hooded prisoners on transport planes with Playboy magazines opened to pictures of nude women on their laps

The administration initially planned to release only the 21 photos sought by the ACLU, but General David Petraeus ordered that all 2,000 photographs be released to keep from "dragging this issue out forever".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5215068/Barack-Obama-to-release-up-to-2000-photographs-of-prisoner-abuse.html

[lefthandedlefty]

12. Hopefully!!!!

and soon

[dkofos]

15. Maybe the DOJ should raid bush and cheney's private collection.

I'm sure they have the best ones.

[Oilwellian]

22. Perhaps it's the photos & videos spoken of by Seymour Hersh

"Rumsfeld told Congress the unrevealed photos and videos contain acts 'that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman.'"

The military later screened some of the images for lawmakers, who said they showed, among other things, attack dogs snarling at cowed prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners forced to have sex with each other.

In the same period, reporter Seymour Hersh, who helped uncover the scandal, said in a speech before an ACLU convention: "Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok? Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men ... . The women were passing messages saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened.'

"Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001218842

[KharmaTrain]

23. Those Long Ago Met A Bulk Eraser...

There were videos of Abu Grahib, but someone in the CIA decided they needed to be destroyed...but who knows if copies were made and still exist.

I assume many of the pictures that we will see were those that were held back in 2005 that included the more sadistic, but also some of the more "mundane" tactics.

[TankLV]

25. The TRUTH will ALWAYS come out - it may not be when or as quickly WE want it...

but it WILL come out.

Conversely, it takes a LOT of energy, time and effort to maintain a LIE, and eventually all the LIES based on a foundation of quicksand will also come tumbling down...

No matter how carefully, and "thoroughly" they THOUGHT they covered up their crimes, somewhere, someplace, there IS all the shocking shamefull evidence we all need - and it WILL come out...

[backscatter712]

24. Yeah, we're going to see more.

If I remember current news, and that ACLU lawsuit ruling, yes, the Pentagon's going through 2,000 photos, making sure classified stuff isn't on them, and getting ready to release them.

We WILL see more.