U.S. has raised specter of new virus against which much of humanity would have littleor no immunity

[seemslikeadream]

THESE ARE REAL PEOPLE WITH REAL LIVES FACING A REAL VIRUS



Getty Images 3 hours ago
People cover his face with scarfs to protect themselves from the virus of swine flu at the Mixcoac health center In Mexico city, on April 24, 2009. An outbreak of deadly swine flu in Mexico and the United States has raised the specter of a new virus against which much of humanity would have little or no immunity. About 950 cases and 60 suspect deaths have been reported in Mexico, according to the World Health Organisation (WHO). The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control said that the infection of humans with an influenza 'A' virus of animal origins is a concern "because of the risk, albeit small, that this could represent the appearance of viruses with pandemic potential."



Reuters Pictures 1 hour ago
A man wears a mask as he waits inside the Mixcoac health center in Mexico City April 24, 2009. A deadly strain of swine flu never seen before has broken out in Mexico, killing at least 16 people and raising fears it is spreading across North America. The World Health Organization said it was concerned about what it called 800 "influenza-like" cases in Mexico, and also about a confirmed outbreak of a new strain of swine flu in the United States.



Getty Images 4 hours ago
People leave the Mixcoac health center using scarfs to protect themselves from the virus of swine flu in Mexico city, on April 24, 2009. An outbreak of deadly swine flu in Mexico and the United States has raised the specter of a new virus against which much of humanity would have little or no immunity. About 950 cases and 60 suspect deaths have been reported in Mexico, according to the World Health Organisation (WHO). The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control said that the infection of humans with an influenza 'A' virus of animal origins is a concern "because of the risk, albeit small, that this could represent the appearance of viruses with pandemic potential."

[The River]

1. I've Always Thought

that scenario would be natures response to
having too many humans fouling her ecosystem.
I think it's just a matter of time.

[seemslikeadream]

2. I wonder how some people here would feel if this was their town

AP Photo 20 hours ago
People wearing surgical masks walk towards the entrance to the General Hospital in Mexico City, Friday, April 24, 2009. Federal health authorities closed schools Friday across this metropolis of 20 million after at least 16 people have died and more than 900 others fell ill from what health officials suspect is a strain of swine flu new to Mexico.





AP Photo 20 hours ago
People wearing surgical masks enter the General Hospital in Mexico City, Friday, April 24, 2009. Federal health authorities closed schools Friday across this metropolis of 20 million after at least 16 people have died and more than 900 others fell ill from what health officials suspect is a strain of swine flu new to Mexico.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Would you consider this as big a threat as Morgellon's Disease?

[WhiteTara]

22. is Morgellon's contagious? n/t

[phantom power]

4. So far it appears that about 90% of humanity has immunity.

or, at any rate, they develop immunity and fight it off.

[seemslikeadream]

5. link please?

[phantom power]

6. It's from your post: 950 cases, 60 deaths.

[seemslikeadream]

7. ?

[tkmorris]

13. You seem to be confusing immunity with fatality rate.

[seemslikeadream]

15. Thanks tkmorris for a moment I thought it was me

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. So the lethality of this is NOT 90%

phew...

As is most LD-50 or above critters are lab generated

Count on this crashing as soon as people actually survive this

[Mojorabbit]

9. Being that it is a novel virus

we have no immunity to it.

[phantom power]

10. Well, yes. But that isn't a very good metric.

We all encounter microbes every day that we've never seen before, and have no immunity against. Most of them we fight off without ever even knowing we did it.

If this thing is dangerous it's because it is contagious and has a high mortality rate.

Never mind. They just pushed my pet peeve button for Bad Science Reporting.

[northernlights]

24. mortality rate looks to be about 6% in Mexico

which puts it at double the 1917-1918 pandemic. But it's been much milder (so far) in the US

Plus we have much more knowledge, better information sharing, and better treatment available. Plus it will take about 6 months to develop a vax for it.

This is an odd-looking virus though. Apparently not just a combination of human, swine and avian virus, but multiple, multi-continent swine.

[SharonAnn]

8. This is when you need an effective Public Health System, as well as an effective Private one.

We have neither.

When everyone doesn't have access to affordable health care, then epidemics are more likely.

When people don't have adequate benefits with their employment, then they go to work when they're sick and spread contagious diseases to others.

[pleah]

40. That is it in a nut shell.

imo

[lostnfound]

50. I would also add when we have factory schools, too -- large, rule-oriented

Most schools now have attendance requirements that say that if a kid misses more than x days a year, he flunks. I know kids who are simply sick more often than others. And unlike when I was a kid, even elementary schoolkids are loaded down with "makeup work " when they get back. And both parents are working. For these reasons, kids are being forced to go to school even when they are sick.

[dos pelos]

11. Seems to me that social environment makes a big difference...

A virus has two survival strategies to choose from;

It can replicate quickly,trash the host in so doing, and quickly moves on to a new host.Or,it may linger in its host,replicate slowly,almost in coexistence with the host and spread slowly over a longer period of time.

Seems to me that the social stability of a given human environment has a lot to do with which viral
strategy is going to work.The social environment selects for the success of the viral strategy.
In a crowded social environment,in which many human hosts are in rapid and close contact that virus
that replicates fastest,trashing its host and jumping quickly to a new host,wins.The virus that replicates slowly,gentle on its host,is out competed by the faster,harsher virus.

Conversely,in a stable,uncrowded social environment,the rapidly replicating,harsher virus tends to die out in the host it has trashed,without jumping to a new host.The virus that replicates slowly,not trashing but to some extent residing in or coexisting with its host has a greater chance of proliferating,slowly,in the population.

So,the flu pandemic of 1918,very deadly,was a product of the unstable,crowded,unsanitary social
circumstances of WWI.Great population movements also brought people into close proximity.

I think this may explain why,at the moment,this flu virus is deadly in Mexico City and not in the US.
Crowded,unsanitary conditions favor the proliferation of the harsher viral strategy for spread.

[damntexdem]

12. The 'Spanish Flu' of 1918-19 started in Kansas.

And it killed tens of millions.

[csziggy]

14. Information on the 'Spanish Flu' epidemic

Which should be similar to the present flu, if it is a new variety of the swine flu:

<SNIP> Then, in pockets across the globe, something erupted that seemed as benign as the common cold. The influenza of that season, however, was far more than a cold. In the two years that this scourge ravaged the earth, a fifth of the world's population was infected. The flu was most deadly for people ages 20 to 40. This pattern of morbidity was unusual for influenza which is usually a killer of the elderly and young children. It infected 28% of all Americans (Tice). An estimated 675,000 Americans died of influenza during the pandemic, ten times as many as in the world war. Of the U.S. soldiers who died in Europe, half of them fell to the influenza virus and not to the enemy (Deseret News).

<SNIP>

The influenza virus had a profound virulence, with a mortality rate at 2.5% compared to the previous influenza epidemics, which were less than 0.1%. The death rate for 15 to 34-year-olds of influenza and pneumonia were 20 times higher in 1918 than in previous years (Taubenberger).

http://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

Emphasis added.

Much more information at the link.

[kimmerspixelated]

16. About the 1918 Flu

The Spanish Flu, which was not Spanish at all, was created in the US through an early bioweapons program and injected into healthy young men (i.e., ’soliders’) as the first mandatory vaccination in the military during WWI (also known as the “War to End Wars” and the “Great War”). The “Spanish Flu”, which originated in Kansas on US Military bases, killed a minimum of 50 million people worldwide (650,000 Americans). It was one of the deadliest pandemics in modern history. It was also one of the most successful biological weapons ever created.

This may be one of the most important chronologies you will ever read:

April 6, 1917:

* US declares war on Austria-Hungary, Bulgaria, Germany, and the Ottoman Empire.
* America swings into full production of War material.
* American men are drafted into military service and deployed for training in Spain
* ALL NEW RECRUITS ARE GIVEN MANDATORY VACCINATIONS — One of which is a “broad-spectrum” live virus influenza vaccination
* Rockefeller makes millions in vaccine sales while consolidating Standard Oil contracts worldwide

* The first British soldiers committed to World War I are deployed to Iraq to protect American oil interests there
* Following mass vaccine injections, U.S. soldiers are crowded into troop ships and sent to “train” in Spain. Seasick, stressed soldiers aged 18-34 exhibit influenza symptoms on the voyage
* Immediately after arriving in Spain, U.S. soldiers are “trained”, that is, exposed to, the various forms of gas they will experience in the trenches in France
* Exposure to these highly toxic gasses causes the live-virus influenza organisms to mutate into an extremely lethal, and highly communicable, form of virus
* Millions of young, healthy men and women aged 18-34 die worldwide as a result of vaccinations combined with novel and highly toxic chemicals.

more at www.healthfreedom.org

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. That's hilarious.

Thank you for posting that.

[dbt]

32. You'd stick your dick in a blender for the attention, wouldn't you?

:evilgrin:
:rofl:

[nashville_brook]

51. blahhahahah!

good one. :evilgrin:

[Chemisse]

17. Not too scary

So far this doesn't look too dire. The Avian flu - which so far has not jumped to human/human conveyance - has killed over 50% of its victims. So a new flu that kills 60 out of 950 is very alarming but thankfully would not obliterate the human race.

[seemslikeadream]

18. You don't live in Mexico, do you?

[marketcrazy1]

20. here is a story that might make you think

follow these links - http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html --- http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html -- http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2009/NEW01987.html

[kimmerspixelated]

21. Yep, some horrible dots can be connected.

Thanks for posting.

[seemslikeadream]

28. Thank you so much for those links

to think my mother worked for Baxter

[Chemisse]

23. Huh?

How is that relevant? I certainly don't expect the virus to stay politely in Mexico/California. I am just saying that if it spreads across the continent, at least it is not the superdeadly virus that kills a majority of its victims.

[marketcrazy1]

25. things in mexico are getting serious

Reuters/DRUDGE: Mexico City now canceling all classes, closing all schools, libraries, canceling all concerts and public events.

[seemslikeadream]

26. The utter disregard for human suffering I have seen today is unreal

but then again I do believe most of it was just personal to me and not the subject

[HughMoran]

37. "Wolf!" syndrome

oh, well...

[seemslikeadream]

54. Flu patients in NY had been in Mexico: report

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jricftL_7LIgqnvYgK8d0rXN38xA

Flu patients in NY had been in Mexico: report
27 minutes ago

NEW YORK (AFP) — Many of the some 75 students at a New York private school who have been treated for flu-like symptoms recently traveled to Mexico, but no swine flu case has been confirmed, US media reported Saturday.

The students at St. Francis Preparatory School in the New York City borough of Queens "had complained Thursday of nausea, fever, dizziness and aches and pains," the New York Times reported, citing officials from the local health department.

"Several of the students were said to have recently traveled to Mexico," where as many as 60 people have died in an outbreak of multi-strain swine flu in recent weeks, it added.

The department sent investigators to the school Friday after officials thought their symptoms "were consistent with a strain of swine flu that has swept Mexico City."

Authorities were "sanitizing" the school as a precaution, CNN television reported Saturday, adding that no swine flu case had been confirmed.

In Mexico, authorities shut several public venues as the main outbreak hit the capital, Mexico City, with between 18 and 20 confirmed deaths due to the virus. There were also deaths in the central city of San Luis Potosi, with three fatalities, and in Mexicali on the US border.

The virus detected in 12 fatal Mexican cases is also genetically identical to that which affected eight people in the US states of California and Texas, though all of those recovered

[northernlights]

27. a 6% rate is nothing to sneeze at (pardon the pun)

The 1917-1918 pandemic flu had only a 2.5% mortality rate. The virus in Mexico is more than double that mortality so far.

The avian flu with the high death rate has not yet mixed with a human flu so does not spread human-to-human.

[Lorien]

55. Again, you're confusing immunity with fatality (as mentioned above)

the article stated that over 950 cases have been identified and 60 people have died. It does not say how many people have recovered from the flu and how many are still sick. Perhaps all remaining 890 people will recover, perhaps most will not. It's too early to tell what the survival rate will be.

[FedUpWithIt All]

29. Cytokine storm. The fact that mostly healthy young adults are being affected..

is partly why so much concern being generated by this particular virus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

[seemslikeadream]

30. The fact that mostly healthy young adults are being affected..

thank you

[Ilsa]

31. ACE inhibitors, rather than corticosteroids, would help suppress

the overreaction by the t-cells. Angtiotension II receptor blockers shouldd help also.

Nasty business, trying to control something like this.

[FedUpWithIt All]

43. There is still so much confusion. Nasty business indeed.

:-(

[Hannah Bell]

33. i'm curious the mechanism by which several strains of swine, bird, & human flu from different

continents combine.

[Hannah Bell]

34. e.g.

"People familiar with biosecurity rules are dismayed by evidence that human H3N2 and avian H5N1 viruses somehow co-mingled in the Orth-Donau facility."

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

[marketcrazy1]

36. this could be a REAL problem

from another board: Just heard on the Peruvian news that they have started screening airport passengers from Mexico or the US for flu symptoms. Anyone showing symptoms is quarantined at a local hospital.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. And that is SOP for these things

[tomreedtoon]

48. Well, AIDS started with human/monkey sex...

...and the outbreak of this pig/chicken/human flu started in rural parts of the California and Texas. Seems pretty clear to me.

[DCKit]

49. Damn those Republican Chickenfuckers to Hell!!! n/t

[tomreedtoon]

53. Have pity on them. They can't get women.

Well, neither can I, but I have something Republicans don't have; imagination. At least I don't go out to the barnyard in a smoking jacket and carrying a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Ok, ok a little insider info as to what the Mexican Federal Government

seems to be enacting

Yes as a red cross medic one of my jobs was plans... disaster plans... one of the possible specialties... and I wore the disaster planner hat as well

back in '96 we got the first warnings from WHO on a possible flu season from hell... aka your pandemic... sorry for the gallows humor

So we sat down with city officials to start developing a response plan... and I can see some of it here, I guess what we started to put in paper developed into this

This looks like phase one... essentially closing down the worst places where you can generate many patient zero... aka schools, museums, and other public places... at the time I wanted to include private movie theaters, but hell you win some, loose some

If this does not slow it down... expect to see private theaters and major shopping centers, next... as well as sport centers

If it really gets bad (and at that point we are seeing a true nightmare, we argued those should be closed early on) they will also close down bus depots, the metro and of course the International Airport.

Back in the day I argued, and I was told I was right from a health care POV but wrong from a politics one (yes even in this you get that) that bus depots, airports and in our particular case the border, should be sealed early on.

So those are the things to look for... if they announce that they are shutting down metro operations, you can safely say the shit has hit the fan, officially. Expect the airport to follow soon, oh and I am sure one reason Obama is keeping an eye on this... where was he last week? You got it. You can bet your sweet potatoes that medical staff is carefully monitoring him

So yes, pray this is a dud (aka the plan works)

[autorank]

41. Nadin

Wonder what impact that crazy drug war in Mexico would have on this. The drug lords have created
autonomous regions where they run the show. That might make it hard for federal medical help to
enter and help out.

These covered streets are the home to tens of thousands in Mexico City.


This is the inside of one of the covered street housing areas. Not a good place for an infection
to break out.


More photographs of the 2006 Mexico City demonstrations against their stolen election
(3 major gatherings of 1.0 million or more each)

2006 Stolen Election Protests in Mexico City

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. In 1996 no

today, I am sure some working for the Army Chief of Staff and the Health Secretariat are wondering about that, absolutely

[Occulus]

42. Did you ever give any thought to postal systems?

I work for USPS, and I can tell you that the amount of mail we handle every day in our one small distribution center, combined with USPS management's grossly negligent policy regarding sick leave use, makes the US postal system in general one possible major transmission vector.

Would you agree?

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Yes fortunately we could shut down the postal system

that was easier to shut down than the airport

My hubby works there, and yes, that is a problem... why our anthrax friend targeted the USPS

[rainbow4321]

44. Fuck. He was.....

I think we forgot about that.... :scared:

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. I didn't, I got to see Marine one

or one of the other four they brought, that was COOL

[L0oniX]

52. Ban pigs. n/t