Nat'l Guard units told to leave gear in Iraq (no equipment for emergencies at home)

[rainbow4321]

Nice..so they go there, have to leave their equipment behind when they come back, but it never gets replaced back in their home states. So the next time they are called out for local emergencies in the US, they have no gear/supplies.

Air Force Times:

http://tinyurl.com/22m2tb

Some National Guard units deploying to Iraq have been ordered to leave their gear behind when they come home — a common practice for units rotating through the combat theater.

But a senior lawmaker says it is having a particularly adverse effect on Guard units, which are left wanting at their home stations for long periods as active-duty units get priority for equipment restock.

That not only hurts the ability of Guard units to train and prepare for war, but prevents them from responding to emergencies at home such as hurricanes or other natural disasters, the National Governors Association said in a letter to Congress.

“You have governors whose brigades have come back , and they’ve been told they aren’t going to get any equipment for four years,” said Arnold Punaro, a retired Marine Corps major general and the commission chairman, who testified before the committee. “We all know that’s unacceptable.”

[Mojorabbit]

1. I really thing we are going to have

another big emergency this year. It is just a gut feeling and this news is depressing.

[rainbow4321]

7. "swapping armored trucks, radios and other equipment between the states"

yeah, and I'm sure it will take no time at all to get supplies and equipment from, say, Oregon to Florida.


http://tinyurl.com/2fa8yw

The 151-page report found a significant lack of communication between reserve officials and other military leaders, the Homeland Security Department and U.S. Northern Command, which is responsible for the military’s defense of the U.S. homeland.

He told reporters Thursday that if there is a chemical, biological or radiological incident, “we’re going to need mass decontamination; we’re going to need mass medical. ... That capability is not there in sufficient quantities to deal with those scenarios.”

Guard and Reserve troops have been under increasing strain since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, serving in Afghanistan and Iraq while also patrolling the border with Mexico and responding to hurricanes and other natural disasters. During parts of 2005, the citizen soldiers made up nearly half of the U.S. forces in Iraq, with some facing repeated deployments.

At the same time, Guard units have struggled to get the equipment and training needed to go to war, often swapping armored trucks, radios and other equipment between the states to meet battle and disaster requirements.

------------
http://tinyurl.com/ypvj8g


Dodd, D-Conn., said the money is needed to restore the National Guard’s readiness for combat and domestic emergencies.

He cited a recent report by the Commission on the National Guard and Reserves that said nearly 88 percent of Army National Guard units are not equipped for combat and lack trucks, generators, radios, night-vision goggles and other gear needed to respond to potential disasters and terrorist attacks.

“We rely on our citizen-soldiers to perform critical missions here at home and abroad,” said Dodd, one of several Democratic presidential candidates. “We owe it to them to provide them with the funding and equipment necessary to complete their missions as safely and effectively as possible.”

The commission report rated some National Guard units as “not ready” because of equipment shortages that have resulted from the Guard’s deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. The commission also said the lack of equipment was unacceptable and has reduced the capability of the U.S. to respond to domestic and foreign emergencies.

[gimama]

8. If Mother Nature doesn't do it

some major disaster-distraction may be created,I feel it, too. However! I also feel VERY strongly, that the ENERGY has shifted, that WE know clearly where WE are weak..HOW STRONG WE ARE,really, & what WE need to do. When I get down about the corruption,incompetence,etc, I am reMinded of the STRENGTH & Power in the TRUTH,the FACTS,finally coming to LIGHT.
Took SO long! & I am reMinded to stay FOCUSED, to check m'Self, what MY intentions are..DO what I can DO. (& ALL Ways HONOR that 'gut feeling'!)

[gimama]

2. not to mention "1800 NEW humvees 'misplaced' in Iraq"

along with,hmmm,20 to 200 MILLION in "lost" NEW equipment?!
There was an Armed Svcs.Comtee hearing last week, You have to see it to Believe it. I thought Rep.duncan hunter("2 Kinds of FRUIT!") was going to have a nervous break-down, right there on the Cspan..
"Uhhh..do you think we might get a handle on just what's missing..?..How do we LOSE 1,800 NEW HUMVEES in IRAQ?!"
I've been trying to get some msm attention on it, this is another big-a MESS.

[ComerPerro]

3. the purpose of the Guard is changing. Its not longer a means of security or disaster recovery

Just like the rest of the military, its function is shifting, to a unit designed to protect US and corporate interests, just like the regular military.

No one at the command could really give a shit about what's going on at home. Hurricane Katrina proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

They want to make the Guards just like any other active duty military branch.

[sam sarrha]

27. now problem.... National Guard will be privatized by BlackW*ter..They'll buy new stuff made overseas

[sam sarrha]

28. ...it is probably TOOOOO contaminated with Depleted Uranium to bring back.. which is why the stuff

from GW2 was left there also.. they had to close the National Guard Depot in Stockton California because the people unloading duffel bags and equipment were getting Gulf War Disease symptoms after a short exposure to the equipment comming back from the gulf

[Richard Steele]

4. This stuff can't be repeated enough. The USA needs to see how Repubs REALLY "support the troops".

Recommended

[Erika]

5. The Idaho National Guard was told to leave all equipment there

The NG was told a request for funding for new equipment would eventually be submitted.

So much for protection of the homeland.

[freethought]

6. They did the same thing in Desert Storm

U.S. Military went to Kuwait with all manner of non-combat equipment. Heavy Trucks, earth-moving equipment, compressors, generators, and the like. Many a municipalities were ready to buy the equipment at a bargain price for there own use when the equipment came back. Seems reasonable, does it not? The Pentagon threw a monkey-wrench into the whole situation when (drumroll please)- they decided to leave nearly all of the non-combat equipment there. Why? They did not want to pay the expense of bringing it back to the states.

Oh goody! Taxpayers paid for the stuff and pentagon decided to abandon it. Oh, but they made damned sure that the weapons came back. God forbid we should leave one Howitzer behind.

Looks like history repeats itself.

[rodeodance]

9. another dump on the states.

[BR_Parkway]

10. Also makes it hard for military who follow their oath to defend the Constitution

to fight back on home ground if martial law were put in place huh?

[Lerkfish]

11. DING DING DING! we have a winner: this weakens our ability to fend off federal martial law

especially if blackwater mercs were to become the imperial guard of the unitary executive. Better equipped, better paid, and without restraints.

[AwakeAtLast]

12. I know that is awful, HOWEVER

The equipment in my husband's unit was older than, well, both of us (he is Signal Corps). A lot of it didn't work. He and a bunch of his buddies worked tirelessly to get it to at least function. They left some behind, but is it wasn't great to begin with. It's not going to give us much of anadvantage.

BTW, most Guard units don't need their equipment because, like my husband's, the units are being systematically broken up and reorganized. The resulting confusion doesn't quite make us ready for defense either. :(

[havocmom]

13. Governors and state legislatures need to raise bloody hell on talk shows

Ours did and the five of our six total helicopters were returned. The sixth never left the state. His argument? Montana is the fourth largest state in area and bushco left us with ONE helicopter to deal with fire emergencies. Since we had a couple of particularly bad fire seasons up here, Schweitzer hitting the talk shows and the Hill with his complaints really had impact. There was even talk on TV about how he might make a good president ;) That rattled some DEM cages on the Hill, I'm sure :evilgrin:

Probably didn't hurt that people like Charles Schwab invested in land for Mc Mansions and golf courses here. ;) Nothing like letting the country club set understand that they were gonna be toast come the next fire season to get their help pressuring the D.C. puppets.

Govs need to get on the air with some serious stats/info about how much at risk their populations, and rich people's properties, are with their Guard depleted and lacking equipment. Have to bring up the property issue as people don't seem to matter nearly as much as preserving the view of the ne'er do well.

[jmowreader]

14. If I was Hillary, Obama or Edwards I'd be scared shitless of Brian Schweitzer

Schweitzer, if he throws his hat into the ring, will win the presidency.

Let me make another thread to explain why.

[havocmom]

16. Yeah, but PLEASE let us keep him here in MT for one more term

16 years of GOP have really fucked up The Last Best Place. :cry:

[jmowreader]

31. How about we get you a new Democrat....

and give you Brian back after he's done fixing Shrub's mistakes?

Imagine the difference between Shrub's handling of Katrina and what Schweitzer would have probably done.

After Shrub got done with the guitar playing and cake eating, he overflew New Orleans. Days later, he put on his suit and returned to the disaster area in his personal 747.

Brian Schweitzer would have gone to the nearest Army airfield, snagged a C-12 turboprop, and flown to Louisiana dressed in work clothes.

[havocmom]

35. You are right about how the response to Katrina would have been!

And he would have come with a legion of guys who KNOW dirt work and another team that knows pumps.
Things would've been better in a hurry. Bet he would have found some guys with boats he could talk into delivering drinking water and food to that Superdome and other places people had been left stranded.

[jmowreader]

38. He also wouldn't have barricaded off NOLA

IIRC Bush had the military block all the roads leading into New Orleans so no relief could be shipped in because Kathleen Blanco wouldn't allow Bush to federalize Louisiana. Schweitzer, being a Democrat and not being stupid, wouldn't have done that.

Under Schweitzer, Blanco would have had her entire National Guard to help with the cleanup operations because Schweitzer wouldn't have gone to war in Iraq in the first place.

[havocmom]

39. Roger that!

:thumbsup:

[havocmom]

17. Looks like he has lost a lot of weight lately... pic from St Pats in Butte interesting

and Jag is lookin tired & worried ;)

[dansolo]

22. He is #1 on my list of dream candidates

I love him because he can shove the "electability" meme down the throats of the DLC hacks, while still being extremely progressive.

[havocmom]

37. Yep. He is Howard Dean's 50 State Plan personified.

He's the real deal.

[lonestarnot]

15. Guess you don't remember what happened when we left Vietnam?

[Toots]

19. How many Guard Units were in Vietnam?

While there were some National Guardsmen over there I don't think many were there as a Unit. They, like most of us, were attached to a Unit after arriving in country. Most National Guard Units kept all their equipment in their state during the Vietnam Conflict.

[lonestarnot]

20. I was referencing the equipment left behind, not the units. We left are asses in Vietnam.

[Toots]

23. Yes I know you were but it was Army equipment not National Guard equipment

We did leave behind an enormous amount of stuff, but the article was about National Guard Equipment and I was just trying to clarify the difference. The Guard was not misused during the Vietnam Conflict as it has been under this Administration..

[lonestarnot]

49. Same fucking difference. Army stuff is army stuff. If you're in the

Army Guard and you're activated, you're in the fucking Army, like it or not.

[Toots]

18. Bush* still has it in for the National Guard, he will break them

What young person would realistically join the Guard knowing they could be sent off to Iraq or Afghanistan instead of joining the Army where there is better equipment and better training and better treatment. It makes no sense at all. I would like to see Bush* have to pay back the training cost to the state of Texas for his fighter pilot training. When he joined he signed a paper that he would utilize his training for the Guard. He did not do so. He disobeyed an order to take a required/mandatory flight physical right after training and was grounded never to fly fighter jet again. Over a million dollars in tax payer money thrown out the window, for what? That one act should have forwarned the nation his word was not to be trusted. This issue was never really covered like I thought it should have been. People were trying to focus on his being AWOL for the last year or so but that whilke most likely true was very hazy and hard to prove. His grounding and the reason why though was very easy to verify. It showed the man a LIAR and as a person that had no regard for the people or their hard earned money. Another easy way to discredit the man that was never followed up on..

[Breeze54]

24. The Army does provide extra training for the NG

before they go to Iraq.

[Toots]

26. Exactly what that responsible young person that joined to help their state really wants.

:shrug:

[Breeze54]

29. Many NG are older and in their late twenties or older

and have been stop-lossed and extended.
Not all are 'kids'. That's all.
All I'm saying is they do get combat training.

On edit: Found what I was looking for...

With more older troops on battlefield, Army sees rise in noncombat ailments

By Russ Rizzo, Stars and Stripes

European edition, Sunday, March 13, 2005

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=26839&archive=true

Snip-->

Part-time soldiers now make up about 40 percent of the 150,000 troops in Iraq, a Pentagon spokesman said.
Overall, more than 184,000 reservists in all services are deployed worldwide, according to the Army National
Guard Web site. And because these troops tend to be older, military doctors find themselves dealing more
with illnesses and injuries common in older patients.

The average age of reservists in all services is 33, according to the Office of the Assistant Secretary
of Defense for Reserve Affairs.

A quarter of all reservists are over age 40.

For Dr. (Col.) Randolph Modlin, chief of cardiology at Landstuhl, the figures are easy
to explain. “We’ve never gone to war with guys as old as this before,” he said. <--snip

[Toots]

30. It matters not how old or experienced they are, is that what they joined the Guard for?

IMO most people don't join the Guard to go into Combat in some foreign land. Whether they have training or not. They join the Guard to help their State. People join the army if they want to go fight not the Guard..Mostly the Guard does not get the same training as the regular Army. They normally get their basic training and then two weeks a year camp. Normally they are week end warriors and not combat soldiers. Normally...Bush* has changed that and in the process pretty much killed the Guard..

[Breeze54]

32. My son is in the NG and served in Iraq.

under 'stop-loss' orders.

Save your lecture.

I agree. My son joined to help people in disasters here at home.
Bush's orders changed that.

"Mostly the Guard does not get the same training as the regular Army"

Yes they do get the same training before they go to Iraq!

[rainbow4321]

40. Oklahoma's adjutant general : NG can't train properly d/t no euipment

http://www.kten.com/Global/story.asp?S=6279130


Oklahoma's adjutant general says state National Guard troops who are preparing for a deployment to Iraq are unable to train properly because of a lack of equipment.

The 35-hundred Oklahoma Guard soldiers likely will head to Iraq in the spring of 2008.

Major General Harry Wyatt the Third says the guard needs body armor, about 24-hundred M-4 rifles and 2-thousand sets of night vision goggles, as well as armored Humvees and other heavy equipment, to properly train the soldiers.

Wyatt says the guard needs an official alert order before the equipment will be sent to Oklahoma. He says he has spoken with Lieutenant General Russell Honore about the problem. Honore leads the First U-S Army, which trains and mobilizes state National Guard units for deployments.

[rainbow4321]

42. See post # 41, also. n/t

[rainbow4321]

41. LA Times: Guardsmen Say They're Facing Iraq Ill-Trained

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guard25nov25,0,7278305.story?coll=la-home-headlines



Members of a California Army National Guard battalion preparing for deployment to Iraq said this week that they were under strict lockdown and being treated like prisoners rather than soldiers by Army commanders at the remote desert camp where they are training.

More troubling, a number of the soldiers said, is that the training they have received is so poor and equipment shortages so prevalent that they fear their casualty rate will be needlessly high when they arrive in Iraq early next year. "We are going to pay for this in blood," one soldier said.

They said they believed their treatment and training reflected an institutional bias against National Guard troops by commanders in the active-duty Army, an allegation that Army commanders denied.

The concerns of the Guard troops at Doña Ana represent the latest in a series of incidents involving allegations that a two-tier system has shortchanged reservist and National Guard units compared with their active-duty counterparts.

[Breeze54]

47. That article is from November 25, 2004.!!

Since then the training has been happening.

[alfredo]

21. Not to worry. When they are sent right back to Iraq, their

equipment will be there waiting for them.

[Breeze54]

25. Doubtful.

[alfredo]

33. that they will be sent right back or that their equipment

will be there?

[Breeze54]

36. The equipment won't be there or

it'll be so far gone, it'll be useless.

No doubt some are going back.

[alfredo]

45. Some of it will be used against them.

[Breeze54]

46. A lot is probably unfixable and

wouldn't pass customs inspection for contamination and a lot is probably sold on the black market.

[alfredo]

48. But some parts will be rebuilt and resold and ending up

no telling where. Good countermeasures can be found by just studying the old machinery down to the composition of the materials used.

[leftofthedial]

34. fucking repukes

are gutting this country

[struggle4progress]

43. Iraq war strains National Guard in Michigan

Saturday, March 31, 2007

Units have 40% of their equipment; officials worry about response to at-home disasters.

Gordon Trowbridge / Detroit News Washington Bureau

... "We are now in a degraded state back here at home," said Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, the National Guard's top officer. "The ability for the National Guard to respond to natural disasters and to perhaps terrorist weapons-of-mass-destruction events that may come to our homeland is at risk because we are significantly underequipped."

The Guard's shortages are one cost of the Iraq war the nation has only begun to face. No one knows just how much it will take, but replacing equipment lost in Iraq is certain to cost tens of billions of dollars over several years.

In Michigan, the state's top Guard officer, Maj. Gen. Thomas Cutler, said the state has about 42 percent of its authorized equipment ...

In most cases, the missing equipment is in Iraq -- either deployed with Michigan units or left behind by the state's soldiers for use by their replacements there ...

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070331/NATION/703310360/1020/NATION

Story contains specifics

[Swede]

44. Weren't most of Montana's NG helicopters in Iraq for last year's fire season?

One more hidden cost of this war.

[TexasLawyer]

50. foreign enemies thinking about attacking the U.S.

please ignore this thread!