You know ..... we knew ..... WE FUCKING KNEW ....... contermporaneously, we knew

[Stinky The Clown]

Let's float above the politics and our own internal divisions for a moment.

We knew all this shit that is being projectile vomited from the darker vestibules guarding the darkest corners of the darkest rooms of our government.

We KNEW they were trying to gin up a connection between Saddam and bin Ladin. We KNEW they were torturing. We KNEW that the ignoramii found guilty of crimes at Abu Ghraib were scapegoats. We KNEW this shit went straight up the line to the inner circle of the White House.

We may not have known some of the finer details, but we knew.

If you have any seniority on DU, you knew.

We knew.

And we will NOT be silent. We've NEVER been silent.

We KNEW.

[SpiralHawk]

1. We knew

from the git go. It was obvious.

The Hindu culture has a word "avidya" (sp) which basically means 'not wanting to know.' That's what the so-called press, and Congress, and the Freeper Homelanders are guilty of: avidya - not wanting to know the ugly truth. Like the wife who keeps seeing her husband come home with lipstick on his collar, and never asks him about it; she does not want to know, because it is somehow, she thinks, easier or more convenient to pretend you do not know.

Avidya.

[bleever]

35. "Willful ignorance".

Exactly right.

[HillWilliam]

129. In the south, we call it

"bein' ignernt" as opposed to "ingorance". "Ignernt" implies a stubborn resistance to obvious truth.

[Martin Eden]

137. I think you misunderestimate the Freepers

They're not turning a blind eye to the torture -- they're cheerleaders for it.

Of course, on the one hand they deny it's torture while on the other they see nothing wrong with torturing "terrists."

[SpiralHawk]

145. "Free clues for Freepers: It's damnably wrong" - Jesus Christ

"You will pay for your support of this EVIL - You will reap what you have sown - do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

- Jesus Christ


- Jesus Christ

[calimary]

154. YES. We KNEW. We KNEW. And we tried desperately to get the truth out.

We tried to get somebody - ANYBODY - to listen to us. We tried to get our side heard. We were shut down, not just by the bad guys but with the way they jackbooted our guys, OUR guys turned a deaf ear, too.

And what's just so sad, to me, is how EVERYTHING we said turned out to be proven true. EVERYTHING we warned about, EVERYTHING we protested against, EVERYTHING we tried to point out and blow the whistle about and shine a light on, EVERYTHING we voiced suspicions about, EVERYTHING we argued against and marched against and petitioned against and called and emailed and pleaded and begged to be heard about - WE were CORRECT about EVERYTHING. HOW MANY of us begged our Senators not to approve jay bybee, and for the reasons everyone's aware of now? Same thing with mukasey and alito and roberts and EVERYTHING else.

EVERYTHING WE SAID turned out to be true.


:banghead: :grr: :mad: :banghead: :grr: :mad: :banghead: :grr: :mad: :banghead: :grr: :mad: :banghead: :grr: :mad: :banghead: :grr: :mad: :banghead: :grr: :mad: :banghead: :grr: :mad:

[opiate69]

2. Fuckin' A, Stinky. Damn straight.

[JuniperLea]

3. Hell yes we knew!

There's no glory or warm fuzzy goodness about being right in this, but dammit! We fucking knew! Hell yes we did! All you fucking rat bastards that called us names, fuck you. Fuck you all to hell.

Proudly giving the first rec!

Goddammit!!!

[PassingFair]

90. I drove by some teabaggers on tax day....

I rolled down the window and told them
to "Get a Job" and "Pay their Taxes".

The "get a job" thing was something
that was yelled at me THOUSANDS
of times by 'pukes driving past
our little Sunday protests against
the posturing for bombing Iran.

It made no sense, since I had a
job, but that's what they always
yelled.

It DID crack me up to see the
SHOCKED looks on their hypocritical
little faces when I threw it back
at them.

:)

Childish...but satisfying.

[DUlover2909]

94. That's fuggin awesome.

:donut:

[October]

115. Awesome! Cathartic!

I love the idea of yelling that to these people. How funny! I especially love the "Pay your taxes!" line because many have indeed lost their jobs due to the GWB policies/economy. Anyway... nice going.

[PassingFair]

121. They seemed SO happy, with their pudgy, smiling faces!

Finally being able to protest
something themselves!

Doesn't matter that they
didn't MAKE ANY SENSE.

The looks on their faces
was PRICELESS.

They thought they were only
going to get car honks and
thumbs up of approval.

I swear, I almost turned around
and gave it to the OTHER SIDE
of the street!

Then I remembered the time a
jerk rode by our protest on
a motorcycle and KICKED the
sign of one of our group and
sped off...

So I just kept on going.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

120. I drove by a teaparty in my city and got to yell out to them as well.

I yelled "love it or leave it", for the same reason you yelled get a job. It feels good to use their tired shit on them for once.

[PassingFair]

122. Did you see the shock register on their chubby cheeked little faces?

Priceless.

[Arugula Latte]

124. OMG ... That is fabulous. How satisfying to throw that in their faces.

:rofl:

[spanone]

4. if we knew, and we did, you can bet most of our government knew too

[libnnc]

5. yep

and the folks who cried "you people are a bunch of tin foil hat crazy DU internet bloggerzzz!!!11111"

can go straight to fucking hell.

Fuck. Them.

[Patsy Stone]

6. Yep.

Election night 2000, when it appeared that W "won" Florida, I said to my husband, "We're going back to Iraq." I've never been more sorry to be right.

[kestrel91316]

13. When Bush got the Repuke nomination in 2000 I said he would have us

at war within a year of being elected, if he won.

[Patsy Stone]

30. Oh, boy.

Right again.

I felt like no matter how hard I screamed, no one could hear me.

[Moonwalk]

74. Right there with you. I didn't scream, but I tried, how hard I tried. And no one wanted to hear--

I remember as troops marched off and people waved flags and this person I was arguing with said smugly "Most nations are with us on this..." I felt like I was able to see the whole damn thing. Like in a crystal ball. Everything that was going to happen from shock-and-awe to smug "we won" to mess and, yes, scandal, corruption.

We were Cassandras. All of us. Offering the Trojans an absolutely truthful vision of the future that they couldn't accept. They far preferred the fantasy which told them that we were going to win, be heroes, establish a democracy and get all the middle-east oil. Everyone wanted to believe it was going to be that easy and that likely.

And Republicans keep trying to tell us that we're the ones wearing the "rose-colored" glasses! :banghead:

[CTyankee]

105. As I look back, it seems that we progressives have been right about everything!

Go through the list. Not just the war but health care, education, the economy, Social Security, torture, and on and on.

Theonly thing that enrages me is that we are all suffering because of Bush's 8 years of insanity. It's just cold comfort to say "We told you so..."

[HillWilliam]

130. Great minds

I said exactly the same thing. When I saw my ballot being carried off uncounted that next morning with the rest of my precinct's ballots, I knew. My partner and I called that morning The Day America Died.

We have hope she's rising from the ashes.

I've heard nothing but stupidity and criminality from the mouths of righties for 30 years now. I'm so enjoying handing their shit right back to them and making them wear it home.

[NRaleighLiberal]

7. Of course we knew.

[PassingFair]

92. I think we still don't know the breadth of the carnage.

Now that we're FREAKING over the
bankruptcy of our own country!

We will probably NEVER know the scope
of the damage that we did in Iraq.

Like how many people we annihilated in Fallujah...

[create.peace]

159. yes, and that plus fifty cents still won't buy a cup of fair trade organic shade roasted joe.....nt

[eleny]

8. And if Cheney hadn't been flapping his yap lately, it could have all gone away

That's something Cheney must be chewing over right now. But they plow on with their surrogates appearing on tv, radio and in print because they underestimated the people. They'll have themselves to blame for all this building and landing them wherever they will.

[vanboggie]

72. They "misunderestimated" too

The freakin', freepin', neo-cons were clueless about what Chimpie called "the internets". Without the web and sites like DU, how many of us would be as informed as we are about the crimes of the BFEE and their puppeteers?

But dammit, we found the other sane 'murikans' and learned more than we wanted to know.

[stubtoe]

111. That's the beauty part!

Maybe there IS a god...

[Canuckistanian]

9. Of course we did

The information has been "hiding in plain sight" for YEARS.

Only NOW is it getting any proper attention.

[Beam Me Up]

10. And some of us KNOW a lot more that has yet to be revealed and

may never BE revealed, officially.

They lied about everything. They lied by omission, they lied by distortion, they lied by obfuscation and they just plane lied. Even here, most still have no clear sense of just how deep this criminality goes.



edit typo

[merh]

25. sadly, you are correct

most still have no clear sense of just how deep this criminality goes.

[Nostradammit]

56. You got that right -

I don't know if this country could handle the truth. But I'm willing to find out.

[DUlover2909]

99. I loved Hillary's quote today about Cheney not being a reliable source of information.

That was slammin. They lied their asses off during their 2000 campaign and never stopped lying and hiding information all the way to Jan 20th, 2009. And now were supposed to believe what Cheney or Rove says about these torture memos? Ridiculous.

[Duval]

133. I agree, and it is really a bummer!n/t

[liberalmuse]

11. Damn right, Stinky.

None of us here are surprised, however, that doesn't take away from the sheer disgust that they were doing what we knew they were doing. We'll never be silent, and we sure as hell will never find a way to justify the atrocities committed in our names.

[malaise]

We knew

The spigot is open - let it all flow out then lock up the bastards. I agree with Elizabeth De la Vega.

[bottomtheweaver]

12. We knew then, we know now, and Padilla is still in prison.

This is what I don't understand. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of others like him but Padilla, a US citizen, is currently "serving his sentence at the Charleston,(SC) Naval Weapons Station Brig."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Padilla_(alleged_terrorist)

Sentence for WHAT?! This is so wrong and yet even after all we know it still goes on. Are we really that powerless to control our own freaking government?

[Raksha]

82. YES, we really ARE that powerless to control our own freaking government!

And that's probably the WORST of all the things we knew.

[BlooInBloo]

14. "contemporaneously".

[cliffordu]

18. Fucking spelling nazi

[Stinky The Clown]

22. Just because I like you .........

contemporaneously


Main Entry:
con·tem·po·ra·ne·ous
Pronunciation:
\kən-ˌtem-pə-ˈrā-nē-əs\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin contemporaneus, from com- + tempor-, tempus time
Date:
circa 1656

existing, occurring, or originating during the same time





In this instance, it means we knew it pretty much as it was going on.




Oh? you knew that?

Never mind. I was trying to be helpful and I got punked.

[Norrin Radd]

80. Periods go inside quotation marks.

[panader0]

15. K&R Stinky. We knew. and so does nearly everyone else.

Many just don't want to admit or believe it.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

16. Sara Palin supported the bush doctrine even though she had no

idea what it was... ergo she pals around with people who torture, ergo she pals around with terrorists.


ON EDIT AGAIN TO SAY: I've known for a long long time.

[cliffordu]

17. I knew. And I didn't have the balls to protest it.

It is a shameful thing on my part, but there it is.

[tridim]

19. There are other, even bigger things that we know

I crumpled up my tinfoil hat sometime in late September, 2001.

[malaise]

21. You are not alone

I hope enough people are watching these goons because they will do anything to escape punishment.

They stole the 2000 election with one plan - stealing Iraq.

[bdamomma]

32. it was all for the neo con agenda and greed.

[bleever]

38. And they stole 2004 on an even grander scale,

in hopes that the appearance of a mandate would trump all suspicions, and allow them to further entrench to the point where no evidence of anything would ever see the light of day.

[malaise]

50. Yes they did

Criminals all.

[annabanana]

87. (note: picture of criminal activity... "caught on tape"?).. .. n/t

[tom_paine]

26. You've got that right!

n/t

[merh]

20. We knew

and we haven't been silent.

We won't be silent.

[Occam Bandage]

23. Yep. We've known for quite some time.

We knew that detainee abuse was and had to have been systematic and therefore deliberate.

[JohnnyLib2]

24. Aye.

:kick:

[Lerkfish]

27. Yup, I pretty much told everyone and was called a conspiracy nut, BEFORE I came to DU

In fact, I was directed here by republicans tired of my "theories".



hm.

turns out I was a freakin prophet. Or willing to accurately view the dark hearts of the Cheney/bush administration.

[seemslikeadream]

28. I fickin knew

[Skip Intro]

29. Yeah, we knew. And we yelled and screamed and they went right ahead with their crimes.

[bdamomma]

31. we all knew and we know that they committed War Crimes.

and just threw the Geneva Conventions away. Damn straight I hope this bites them all back.

[annabanana]

33. We sure as hell did...

I have spoken with the disengaged who are suddenly being confronted by the irrefutable truths that we have been living with for all this time.

I have to bite my tongue to keep from biting their heads off. Instead, I feed them another angle, another tidbit of well known (for us) information and watch their eyes as they begin to come to terms with the outrage that was committed against ALL of us.

This recognition has been a long damn time coming. I am glad, but I am also so very very weary.

[stillcool]

34. For years and years..

I have to admit, I was blown away by the memos. It was not the fact that we tortured. What really got me, was the perverse way they tried to put the thinnest veneer of legality on something that has always been defined as torture. The intricate, specific language regarding each technique and the consistent mention of what constituted 'severe' mental and physical pain. Why in Christ's name would they want to do what was clearly illegal on such a large scale, in your face manner, for years. They got some feel good from it, obviously, because they didn't get anything else.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

123. ...because they didn't get anything else

they're about to. :evilgrin:

[bleever]

36. Yes.

Thank you, sir.

[McCamy Taylor]

37. The press is soooo culpable on this one. If we knew, they knew even more

and yet anyone who was willing to discuss the truth got canned like Donahue at MSNBC----before its big revelation that Bush's economic policies were bad for the manufacturing sector (i.e GE).

[Fire1]

39. I wasn't on DU but I knew.

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. We knew. How can these smarty-pants assholes pretend they didn't know too? n/t

[dem mba]

41. the Left has been right about virtually every major

social domestic and foreign policy issue I can think of over the past 8 years (if not longer).

And yet the MSM still seems resigned to cast progressives as being out of the mainstream of whatever. when it comes to the truth you're either right or your wrong and we were right. popular opinion doesn't mean jack.

[NashVegas]

42. 400k Marched In NYC

In 2003. They knew, too.

[annabanana]

45. (conservative estimate)

[NashVegas]

106. When CNN Said "150k" I Started Keening Like An Irish Wake

Because I knew they were lying through their teeth.

[dorkulon]

66. And they got less than a 100th the press coverage

of a few thousand teabaggers.

[NashVegas]

107. Yup./

Pure bullshit.

[texastoast]

156. There were thousands, THOUSANDS of us in Houston

Bush's daddy's "hometown."

They just kept coming and coming down that hill to protest the war. We couldn't believe how many showed up. HERE!

[NashVegas]

163. I Believe It

And there were two fucking million people in London, .. aw heck, here:

US

Last night's protest in San Francisco was the last in a weekend of American mass demonstrations.

In New York on Saturday organisers counted 400,000 demonstrators who, forbidden by a court order from marching, rallied within sight of the United Nations amid heavy security. They were joined by the South African archbishop Desmond Tutu, and actors Susan Sarandon and Danny Glover. In Chicago 3,000 gathered and in Philadelphia 5,000 more carried anti-Bush banners. Other marchers massed in more than 100 towns and cities, including Seattle, Miami and Los Angeles.

Australia

Yesterday's anti-war protest in Sydney was the biggest demonstration in Australia's history, surpassing even the record set by Friday's demonstration in Melbourne. Around 250,000 marchers were addressed by American singer Jackson Browne, journalist John Pilger and Green party senator Bob Brown.

There was a typically Australian strand of irreverence about parts of the protest, with organisers giving out prime minister John Howard's office phone number.

The prime minister was unimpressed by the protests. "I don't know that you can measure public opinion just by the number of people that turn up at demonstrations," he said.

Spain

Two marches in Spain - in Madrid and Barcelona - each brought out around a million people on Saturday evening, with dozens more gatherings countrywide, taking the total number of protesters towards the 3 million mark.

It was the biggest outpouring of popular political sentiment - with the possible exception of some anti-Eta marches - since Spaniards took to the streets to protect their fragile young democracy after a coup attempt in 1981.

The protest was not directed so much at George Bush as at his faithful ally, the conservative Spanish prime minister, Jose Maria Aznar. "The Pope says no to war, the People's party says yes", "Aznar, Bush's doormat" and "USA global coup" were among the slogans on display.

"We don't understand the concept of a preventive war. The only preventive war is called peace," film-maker Pedro Almodovar told the Madrid march.

France

Between 300,000 and 500,000 anti-war protesters marched through some 60 towns across France on Saturday, many carrying banners declaring "Proud to be French" and waving US flags scrawled with the words: "Leave us in peace".

Police said 200,000 people attended a Paris march, the largest such gathering since the anti-National Front protests of last spring. Some 15,000 gathered in Lyon, 7,000 in Toulouse, and 5,000 in Strasbourg, Rennes and Marseille.

President Jacques Chirac said yesterday that "no option was excluded" if the UN weapons inspectors failed or were unable to complete their task, but a new survey found that 81% of the French wanted him to use the country's UN security council veto against any US-led military attack on Iraq.

Among those marching in the capital to support Mr Chirac's stance were some of his most bitter political opponents, including the Communist leader Marie-George Buffet and the anti-globalisation activist José Bové.

Germany

Berlin's peace march turned out to be five times bigger than expected by police and organisers - and twice as large as the biggest previous demonstration in post-war Germany.

By the time Saturday's protest reached its peak, an estimated 500,000 people were packed into the Tiergarten, Berlin's central park. Three members of Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's centre-left cabinet defied his express wishes and joined the march.

Italy

Rome's ancient monuments were draped with peace flags on Saturday and the city swarmed with anti-war campaigners, producing what organisers said was the biggest turnout in Italy's long history of mass popular protest.

The music of Bruce Springsteen blasted over a crowd of leftwing opposition politicians, film stars, Catholic church representatives, human rights groups and Iraqi exiles. March campaigners claimed three million pacifists "invaded" Rome. Police said the true figure was around 650,000, though it was "difficult to count".

The centre-right prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, who has pledged Italy's support for a US-led war, made no official comment on the march. His deputy and leader of the far-right National Alliance, Gianfranco Fini, said the protests had brought the world no closer to peace because "ideological anti-Americanism" and "totalitarian pacifism" would not convince Saddam Hussein to disarm.

State television, RAI, did not broadcast the protest live, saying it would put "undue pressure on politicians".

Saddam Hussein's deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz, on a controversial trip to rally support for Iraq, was in Assisi to see the tomb of St Francis, the patron saint of peace. "May God the almighty grant peace to the people of Iraq and of the whole world," Mr Aziz, a Chaldean Catholic, wrote in the visitor's book.

Israel

The small turnout for Saturday's peace march through Tel Aviv confirmed that nowhere is there more support for an American attack on Iraq than in Israel.

About 1,500 people rallied at the Tel Aviv museum of art. Some were Arabs whose chants were anything but peaceful, with calls for retaliation against America and denunciations of George Bush and Ariel Sharon as terrorists more dangerous than Saddam Hussein.

Other protesters included Jews who focused their anger on the policies of their own government.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/feb/17/politics.uk

[Lint Head]

43. They knew that someone being tortured would say anything so

they tortured people until they said the words to back up the lies.
:dem:

[RandomKoolzip]

44. Hey! Did you know?

[RagAss]

46. We knew intuitively ! I knew with my gut before my brain !

Ten minutes of Colin Powell in front of the UN and my stomach began to turn. I knew the years ahead would be a special level of Dante's Hell !

[northofdenali]

47. I think most of us did what we could -

but karma is still gonna bite us on the ass for this.

Apologists and "forward-thinking" guilt deniers aside, we'll pay for it. At least, those of us with souls will. Forever.

[Shell Beau]

48. I think we did know. I know in my heart of hearts I knew.

[lib2DaBone]

49. he knew.. she knew... we knew... they knew.. we ALL knew....

..and what is more sick.. the main stream press knew and they went along with torture and the whole Bush agenda.

Torture.. unnecessary wars... spying on Americans.... the worst Recession in 50 years..

Yet.. America Yawns and gives George Bush a free pass on all crimes. I can't figure.

[bdamomma]

146. yea, where is george probably got his orders from cheney to stay the hell away.

[Ilsa]

51. Damn straight, Stinky. Maybe some new members should

be shown some old threads about it. Maybe we need a separate DU that cannot be posted to, a "read-only" version of DU to reflect on.

Yeah, we had those motherfuckers figured out. We thought it was about the oil, but I'm not sure of the Why? yet. Maybe it was just about the money going to Halliburton, et al.

[SalviaBlue]

52. We knew

[islandgirl808]

53. i wish i paid more attention

maybe i would have fought harder in convincing family and friends to NOT vote for bush and using the usual "war is wrong" reason.

[Hissyspit]

54. We also knew there would be consequences for the country.

[spanone]

55. did the media know?

[sabrina 1]

71. Yes, the media DID know!

Sy Hersch was writing about torture before Abu Ghraib! I remember him talking about children being tortured, and he was afraid, people who heard him speak about it said. And I saw him on tv once, telling someone, I forget who, that what was going on was unspeakable. And he was asked 'what should we do'? I'll never forget his response, he said 'I don't know, get another passport?' That scared me, I remember.

Sy Hersch, John Pilger and a few other heroic reporters were writing about what was going on regarding torture since at least early in 2004.

And NO ONE can say they didn't know after the nightmarish photos from Abu Ghraib were released, and we still haven't seen the rest of them. AND, I will not forget how this country treated the hero who found those photos and handed them over. Instead of being treated like a hero, he and his family had to go into hiding! That was the atmosphere of the country. The 'home of the brave, land of the free', where so many were so paralyzed with fear that they were willing to turn a blind eye to their government's most horrific crimes.

So, people who were online are not the only ones who knew. At least not after Abu Ghraib. But where was the outrage after those photos were released? I don't remember much. And I was so disappointed, I actually thought that would be the end of the Bush administration. Not only was it NOT the end, he won (yes, I know they stole the election again) but millions of Americans DID vote for him that very year!

We can blame the press, and they certainly deserve to be blamed, and those directly responsible, but the American people are to blame also, because they did not care, many refusing to even talk about it, or worse, excusing it. Only a small minority relatively speaking, really cared.

And that is why the torturers got away with it. It wasn't until they lost their jobs and their savings and were personally affected financially, that the American people finally were open to even discussing the horrors that they DID KNOW ABOUT for so many years. In fact, if that had not happened, the economy collapsing, there's a good chance, that despite everything else, John McCain and Sarah Palin would have won the election.

I gave up on the American people to be honest when I saw, even among my own friends and family, how little they were affected by the revelations of torture after Abu Ghraib.

Shame on all of them. People were being tortured to death while most Americans were watching American Idol and running up their credit cards.

[Bluenorthwest]

96. Rumsfeld said at the Abu Ghraib hearings

That he had watched tapes the previous night that contained images of rape and murder, as well as what Rummy called blatant sadism. Rummy is the one who approved many of the tortures used.
In public testimony he said there was rape and murder. So when it was declared that the rapists and murderers will be uninvestigated and pre-pardoned, I was and am still very upset. Obama and Holder know there were rapes and murders, and they wish to 'look forward'?
Rape and murder. Admitted by Rummy in the halls of Congress. But they had a note from Yoo, so all is well, rape away, towel down, and come live next to American families.
I do not agree with the idea of letting such people go free, not at all.

[sabrina 1]

143. I couldn't agree more

that letting these people off the hook is just unconscionable. Rummy watched a torture session in Guantanamo Bay, airc. So, to hear him lie about being shocked by it all? It's just not believable.

I also remember Sen. L. Graham, after he watched the tapes (still not available to the public) during the Abu Ghraib hearings. He was white as a ghost and confirmed that what was on those tapes was appalling. He even got up enough courage at that time to tell Cheney to stop trying to interfere with the hearings and to 'let Congress do its work' (paraphrase).

But then, it all went away and he, Graham, voted for the MCA later.

There has to be a special prosecutor. All this needs to be thoroughly investigated, and they all need to be under oath. No more of the garbage we got in the 9/11 hearings where Bush/Cheney were coddled and allowed to testify in private and not under oath.

It's long past time to get this done and I hope the Obama administration understands that if we are a country of laws, no one is above those laws, and no, crimes such as these have no statute of limitations and it is not a question of 'moving forward'. The only way to do that is to deal with those crimes as they will not go away, no matter how forward we move.

Also, we are, as you pointed out, not just talking about 'stress positions' and water-boarding. Many died under torture in US hands.

Not to mention the doctors, psychologists et al who participated in these crimes.

[chill_wind]

127. Yes. And they investigated and reported.

Some did a more diligent job than others, but you can't force people to stop watching Fox News or reading nothing but the Free Republic.

Even those lunkhead consumers can't take refuge in that kind of argument. Just as an exercise, I went to the MSNBC site for instance one day and did a search on their article search engine. The word torture alone yielded over 200,000 news pieces. I didn't even bother with "harsh interrogations" or "detainee abuse", which probably would have doubled or quadrupled the hits.

AFAIK, the ACLU is one org that absolutely led the way in giving both MSM and alternative media the tools to report the wealth of FOIA that has been made available to the US and the world for YEARS on this subject.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/torturefoia.html

[Warren Stupidity]

57. k&r

[opihimoimoi]

58. Damn Fucking right we knew....Molly warned us in 2000....we didn't listen w enough numbers

[global1]

59. I Posted This Earlier In The Day ---- Connect The Dots.......

Wow!!! Talk about the 'domino theory'. Everything we talked about here on DU for the last 8 years. All our worst suspicions are turning out to be true. Everything the MSM glossed over and tried to cover up. Where will this lead? Where will this lead? Their house is crumbling, imploding, coming down on them. Who will it take out in the process? Who will join in the razing of BushCo?

This is really getting interesting. You couldn't write a novel better than what is unfolding here right before our eyes.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5511959&mesg_id=5511959

[Amonester]

60. 10 million people protesting in the streets around the word knew.

Before the illegal invasion of Iraq, and we were ridiculed with a "who cares what they think?" insult (plus all other insults thrown at us).

We knew, indeed.

[walldude]

61. And now... everybody else knows too

The base may be out there defending torture with every breath, but they know the shit is hitting the fan. Half of DC is probably lawyering up right now. All we gotta do is keep yelling.

[neuvocat]

62. Here's how I viewed it back then:

what if the soldiers don't find anything after the U.N. Inspectors get kicked out? If the soldiers found something then they entered the area for nothing. If they didn't find anything then the soldiers' presence was essentially an act of war (which it turned out to be).

[janet118]

63. The pattern is familiar

First, the news is on sites more reality based than the MSM.
Second, we read them and spread the word.
Third, we are called paranoid, conspiracy theorists.
Four, MSM breaks news long after it matters.
Five, everyone says its old news and wants to move on.

[FreeCajun]

64. Damn right we knew. n/t

[Lugnut]

65. Yeah we did.

Some of my family members surely thought I was being overly dramatic. In the early days of the former administration my son called it the Fourth Reich.

[polly7]

67. Millions in the world knew right from the start.

I knew, I'm from Canada and those of us who spoke up about it to many down there were threatened, laughed at and called all sorts of names. Canadians crossing the border to shop as we had been for years had their tires slashed, windows broken and paint scratched, right after Chretien stated we wouldn't be joining Bush's coalition of the lied to and bribed. My sister was one of those who had to spend thousands getting her car fixed. Oh yes, we knew. It broke our hearts that so many didn't seem to care, knowing how many innocent people would die and that Iraq, the Cradle of Civilization, was about to be destroyed - for Bush's greed and empire. We knew, and we were sick, when it was clear the innocent were being tortured, we were horrified.

[JeffR]

68. Damn right.

And thank you for saying so. This thread has been overdue.

[gauguin57]

69. Someone needs to issue a memo stating that The Hague has permission to waterboard Rumsfeld,

and Cheney and anyone else they can get into the orange jumpsuits over there. Waterboard, lock up with bad insects, whatever they feel is appropriate.

I think Rummy needs a taste of his own foul medicine (and Cheney has been ASKING for it for years!)

[Hannah Bell]

70. yes, we knew. and? it didn't stop anything.

[PassingFair]

95. Many in our own party failed us, too.

They were playing both sides
of the fence, acting with
"plausible deniability".

The REAL failure of democracy
will come with the failure of
the new administration to expose
AND charge those who used the cover
of war to profit from the carnage.

I hope that they don't get away
with this, but I'm not holding
my breath.

[sampsonblk]

73. Yes, we did

Someone asked me (during that time) what the hell we can do about it. My answer is COMPLAIN. Those who didn't complain are in some ways as responsible as those who did it. Every movement starts somewhere. many of the times its just that someone had the courage to speak up. But someone has to start it.

And most of us here did everything we could do. Which wasn't much. But our hands are clean.

End Rant.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

75. Everyone knew. Most of all the media that covered their asses for eight years knew.

[bridgit]

76. Well...sure *WE* knew, but they weren't selling it to us in either event...

They were selling it to a far more dense; base demographic with a reptilian fight-or-flight response scheduler much easier to tune-in with the towers still smoldering so yeah...

We knew. But not only did others not know they still bought it hook line and sinker sight unseen

[ClayZ]

77. We KNEW! K and R

[Triana]

78. Sure WE knew. The sheeple, willfully ignorant, and the lame$tream media who...

...fed them the monkey-poo propaganda from bu$hit, Inc. didn't know (well, the media DID know but just lied for the Republicans, as per usual).

[Hekate]

79. We knew, by Gods. I almost went crazy with knowing how awful the Bushites were...

... and I knew I didn't know the half of it. Along with untold thousands of my fellow citizens I petitioned and marched and yelled and helped set up informational town halls. I spoke at the City Council on behalf of the Bill of Rights Defense Committee and the Vets for Peace.

You're absolutely right, Stinky: WE KNEW.

And if insignificant people like us knew the facts, there is no excuse on Gods Earth for those in power to plead ignorance.

Hekate

[lostnotforgotten]

81. Yep - No Doubt - The Old Saying, "Where There's Smoke, There's Fire" Applies

eom

[yy4me]

83. We all on DU knew. The reason #1 that we are here is to form

a bond of common thought regarding what has has happened to us as a nation these last 8 years.

I am now hopeful, no matter the humiliation of the country, that we are finally taking some action against the worst bunch of evil people since Hitler and his minions. The deeds done in our name are unforgivable. The stink will never go away. If the former administration is brought to justice, maybe we will be able to cope personally with all they did.

If they are brought to justice, maybe we will begin to have faith is the good our country can do, not remember just the horror done in the name of "democracy".

I believe the slow and careful steps being taken by the Obama administration is the right course. Do it right the first time. The disclosures and hopefully, the prosecutions, will be hard to go through but harder still would be living with what we all knew.

Gobama

[pleah]

84. K&R

[conscious evolution]

85. I knew

and I ain't shutting up about it ,either.

Fucking war criminals.
Its because of shit like this that I support the death penalty.

[mwb970]

86. We've been talking about *all* of this for years and years.

None of these recent "revelations" has been a surprise to me. These are things we knew about all along. Now "America" is finding out how right we really were.

Who "hates the troops" now, republican scum?

[wordpix]

88. we knew, but you'll never get a conviction on that. We have to indict these criminals NOW!

[mmonk]

89. Yep.

It's why we really can't just be quiet and go along.

[mopinko]

91. and they put junior in the white house to keep poppies secrets.

and so they could all keep playing their sick little games that their nice nazi friends taught them. or was it the other way around?
yes, we knew about the bybee memo. we knew about john yoo.

and we know that there is more to come. the deaths are slowly being made real to the masses. when will the torture of people' families be also vomited forth? the teenage prisoners? the rapes?

sometimes i get tired of being right. sometimes i get tired of telling my skeptical family that, yes, i tried to tell you. but i think my president will let it all come out.

[NNN0LHI]

93. Some of knew it was going to happen before Bush began invading countries

It always does. That is why many here were against doing that.

Don

[Usrename]

97. We KNEW the 9/11 Commission Report was bullshit.

All lies and forced confessions. Complete bullshit.

[Bluenorthwest]

98. Millions knew

and were not silent, and still are not as others continue to explain why a note from home allows one to relinquish one's humanity without repercussions.

[Skidmore]

100. Indeed we did, Stinky.

We knew. We absolutely knew. Yes, we did. And you are right. This shall not be allowed to be swept under the rug. We knew and we were not silent. We need to exorcise the ghost of Nixon and his cronies from the halls of power. Cheney, Rumsfeld, and others cut their teeth in Nixon's administration. We cannot let this go, as we did Watergate. The crimes grow bigger as these people have come to feel entitled to lawlessness and have escaped real repercussions. They are also training a new generation to follow in their footsteps. While we are at it, we also need to slap some of our own people upside the head or replace them because they roll over everytime they are confronted by this ugliness.

[unpossibles]

101. I also remember seeing several people who wondered if perhaps

the Bush administration had been blackmailing legislators with dirt gleaned from wiretapping. Hmm.

[Stephanie]

102. You bet we knew - PNAC Archive >

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=110&topic_id=80

[Enthusiast]

103. Yup.

I have always said that the worst you can imagine about the Bush Administration is not bad enough.

[Ticonderoga]

104. Yep we knew,

and we "know" about the towers as well.

[mike_c]

108. yep, we knew-- many of us wrote about it at the time...

...and were dismissed as hysterics in some cases. When dealing with politicians, always assume the worst and you'll rarely be disappointed. And we let these folks run the country?

[KarenS]

109. I truly wanted to be wrong,,,, to be a conspiracy nut,,,,

but,,,, yes, yes,,,, we knew :cry:

[leveymg]

110. We knew what they knew before 9/11. And, we've known for years.

leveymg's Journal - THEY KNEW: Tenet reveals late August '01 ...THEY KNEW: Tenet reveals late August '01 meeting w/Bush, Rummy, Condi, Gens. Meyers/Pace. Posted by leveymg in General Discussion ...
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/258

[Deep13]

112. Who could have imagined that Bush's people could do something like that?

Oh yeah, all of us. :-(

[Serial Mom]

113. Yep - I knew when dubya picked cheney for running mate!

I researched cheney's voting record while he was a member of congress and what he did unders Ford and I knew then!

[No More Bushbots]

114. So what are you going to do?

Some of us have been fighting this fight since Nixon was President.
I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the people that are posting on this thread have just witnessed what Republicans are really all about for the first time.
So what are you going to do to insure that Republican never happens to this country again?

[annabanana]

118. You'd bet that ? Really?

I don't think so.

[October]

116. We totally knew... and we met here at DU to keep our sanity /nt

[Gregorian]

117. But Jessica Lynch was shot and rescued!

And that banner said Mission Accomplished!

I trust the authorities!

[brindis_desala]

119. Yes we knew, millions knew and that is the tragedy.

Beginning with Gore's tepid response in Nov. 2000... remember how he insisted that Jesse Jackson's civil rights attorneys stay out of Florida ... remember how with 24 hours before the Supreme Court hearing Warren Christopher dumped Lawrence Tribe, the country's preeminent constitutional scholar, and replaced him with David Boies a corporate litigator who by his own admission knew next to nothing about constitutional law ...
remember how the FBI warned that there would be a massive attack in the summer of 2001 ... remember how Bush's poll numbers had been tanking, the news about a breach in the code as Bush was about to board Air Force One on his way back to Washington? Remember the Secret Service saying it had received an anonymous call: “Air Force One is next.” ... meaning the caller had the agency’s secret code ... and then denying the story. Remember how Bush heeded Cheney's advice to stay out of the Capital and went flying around the country without a military escort. Remember how scared Bush looked those first few days before he turned belligerent and much more cocky? Remember the stories that would show up and promptly disappear. Remember how most major newspapers basically ignored the massive protests leading up to the Iraq invasion... remember the reports of Iraqi women and children being raped in Abu Ghraib... remember the candlelight vigils decrying the war and then the torture... remember the anthrax before Congress approved the Patriot Act... remember the Military Commissions Act of 2006 redefining torture and signed by over 50 Democrats in the House and Senate right before the midterms? Remember. I do. The hole is that deep.

[lonestarnot]

125. Hell yes we knew! Scum! Scum of the earth, lower than scum of the earth! Evil scum.

[Maat]

126. Yep.

I've heard things since late 2002. I've protested, written letters and emails and called. Finally, proof is coming out, but I'm not holding my breath about prosecutions. In law school, I had to write extensively about the rights everyone had; when I asked the professor what to put in light of the information coming out, he said, just put what I taught you. That stuff will be taken care of - the professors believed that.

We must see that torture, a.k.a. "enhanced interrogation," ends - period - never to resurrect its ugly head - ever again - NOW.

[SlingBlade]

128. Yep, We Knew, We all Knew K&R

[Duval]

131. We also knew our MSM was full of it!

:o And I, for one, would like to know who else besides me knew Cheney issued a "memo" for all military planes to "stand down" on 9/11. If we have another 9/11 commission, instead of an independent investigation into this torture crap, not much will be accomplished. However, I am so glad that some of this is coming out.

[newspeak]

132. yeah, we knew

I remember telling my hubby after the farce of an election that * would have us into a war. He believed that daddy would have won against Clinton, if he still was a war president. Of course, "Saddam tried to kill my daddy." But, that's not the real reason why--it's the oil companies and war profiteers. I believe that Dresser Industries merged with Halliburton--now, Dresser was in financial trouble, especially with the asbestos lawsuits. Why would they merge? There'd have to be some political pull to do away with those lawsuits or cap them. KO last night mentioned that before 2000 Halliburton had approximately 600 million worth of contracts, now it stands at approximately six billion. Get that, SIX BILLION of tax payers' money. Now, it's a sick thought that Cheney's little private energy meeting was all about ripping off a few oil wells to control the oil. Our soldiers bogged down in a quagmire in the ME and hundreds of thousands of people murdered for nothing but GREED and POWER!!! These mentally disturbed people care nothing about the well being of this country or the people in this country. They'd take us down in a heartbeat if it was advantageous for their favored corporations. All anyone needed to do to find out what the * cabal was up to was follow the money and business dealings before 2000.

[Autonomy]

134. And yet we weren't able to do one damn thing

to stop it. Doesn't say much for political message boards, does it?

[newspeak]

135. yeah, nothing like competing with MSM

I remember when I was a little girl (during the red scare) and my teacher told the class how lucky we were living in the US, that those poor children in Russia were brainwashed-nope not us. I've never seen so much bullshite propaganda as I've seen in the last 16 years. However, the last eight years have really been something to behold. How many people actually noticed that you could turn from one station to another and hear almost the same talking point word for word, repeatedly. It's like every talking point or fabrication came directly from the WH. Now, I'm grateful that KO and Rachel Maddow finally got access to CABLE TV, but it was a little too late to stop the quagmire in the ME. I remember when Phil Donahue was on and how he had guests on debating whether or not to invade Iraq. Well, I bet someone certainly didn't like that reasonable debate--NBC pulled the plug. I wrote to them about pulling the plug on Donahue, but nothing came of it. He wasn't talking the pro-WH rah-rah war is good talking points. Now that NBC (or should I say GE) has gotten a piece of the war pie, they apparently feel magnanimous by giving us a few of the more "rational" talking heads (on cable only of course).

[ProgressiveFool]

136. we certainly did know... check Glenn Greenwald today

He linked to a piece in the Washington Post in DECEMBER 2002 about the whole torture thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/09/AR2006060901356.html

[BrklynLiberal]

138. Yep...we were screaming into the wind....

[yoyossarian]

139. I wrote a column against those fuckers for hte first 4 years!

And I did President Evil Online for nearly 5, before it got knocked off the net.
It's archived now at my current site...
Gotta tell ya though... knowing availed me NOTHING!
Not only is it seemingly impossible to get through to people who don't WANT to know,
but I remain completely unknown after those many years of service.
EVERYONE is starting to do my material these days... now that it's SAFE.
I'm hanging by a thread, and I'm making no money from my current store...

There was a time, right after 9/ll, when the ONLY people speaking harshly against
these fascists, IN PRINT, were ME and Noam Chomsky.

I'm unknown and I'm living in fucking poverty.
Fuck it.
At least I tried.
I put my ass on the line, and I'm proud of that.

And I will CONTINUE to look forward to THIS day:



Great gift tee shirts, mugs, buttons and other cool stuff at


Laugh City!

President Evil Online has risen from the grave!

[Raksha]

149. And you have every right to be proud of yourself!

Re There was a time, right after 9/ll, when the ONLY people speaking harshly against
these fascists, IN PRINT, were ME and Noam Chomsky.

I'm unknown and I'm living in fucking poverty.
Fuck it.
At least I tried.
I put my ass on the line, and I'm proud of that.

And NOBODY, not even Naomi Wolf, has any business accusing "the American people" collectively of having blood on their hands. Not if she is including you--or even me, although I didn't (and couldn't) do a fraction of what you did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x442621

[yoyossarian]

167. I agree!

MANY Americans agonized over this shit, and did immense amounts of work to register their dissent and try to slow the progress of this hideous "New World Order", no question about it. Many signed petitions and protested locally, or fought their own guerilla wars against the onslaught of misinformation and misdirection that characterized the entirety of those 8 awful years...
If you cared at all, and tried to at least better educate those around you about the real reasons for those "wars" (oil and world domination), if you took ANY chances at all to speak up for reason and human values in the face of that bloodthirsty tsunami of fear and boundless, mindless, opportunistic greed that accompanied it like the shadow of a shadow, then you ARE one of the good ones, and you already know who you are; you know what you suffered watching this horror and feeling helpless to stop it, but unable to stop yourself from trying in some small way to do so anyway, despite the clear risks even the most minor rebellions seemed to entail... not EVERYONE is guilty here in America; certainly there are MANY on this site who have worked hard to reestablish some balance and right the many wrongs perpetrated by these insane neo-fascist bastards...
But there are many who, if not guilty in terms of full collusion, are at least easily categorized as people who, for the past 8 years, pretty much got the world they deserved, by simply defending their ignorance and refusing to lift their heads from the sand for even an instant, despite every clear indication that these were desperately perilous and ugly times that demanded an effort from EVERY decent and thinking citizen to turn the tide and bring us back to a nation of some real values and ideals.
So thank you for the acknowledgement; you certainly have mine in kind.
All my best to you and to all of us here who still give a damn about life, and love, and this lovely earth that birthed us.
We are miracles of life, each of us... thank god or goddess or holy Dave or whatever, that there are still some of us out there who know it, and act accordingly.

[hvn_nbr_2]

140. We knew. OTOH, Congress & MSM: epic, epic fail. nt

[aquart]

141. Yes, we did. We knew and we said so.

And they lied to our eyes.

[butterfly77]

142. Kick &Recommended!

[swilton]

144. I wasn't on DU at the time

But I knew - this wasn't rocket science. Furthermore, as a lifetime member of Veterans for Peace, I saw the war coming in 2002 and started getting petitions signed to present to two Maryland senators (who voted against authorization for war against Iraq). We had a protest in 2002 - in spring or fall just before I joined VFP and I was there in the streets on MLK Day (bitter cold I might add) in 2003. The news media are dimwits the way they kowtowed to Bush and Co. since the stolen elections. Anyone who would cheat in an election............................................ NEVER AGAIN!

:nuke:

[grahamhgreen]

147. A pat on the back for all of ya!

[undergroundpanther]

148. Hell yeah I knew it

And after posting on it awhile..mostly I got insults, flames and told to take off the tin foil hat. After awhile I gave up.Felt like no one wanted to listen,except a few regulars who already knew.

And for me, considering inside the twin towers was Central Intelligence Agency's clandestine New York station that got destroyed during the tower collapse ..Still I wonder what documents or evidence regarding torture got destroyed that day? So that the people at the highest levels would never get caught or exposed?

I admit it,I am one of the MIHOP crowd.Why? Maybe because It looks plausible to me. Maybe there was some damning information stowed in those buildings. Things so ugly a long time hidden and damming was kept there.Information destroyed that could have damaged the powerful far more than just the bushes,it may have damaged everything these assholes want to do to twist this nation into something it was never meant to be.

If that info reached the public it might change things to the point it could have changed the status of power holders and ended the recycling of the same old political faces forever.It could have forever ruined the 'financial dream' of the few and sent heads rolling or made them penniless,exposed and hated.Who knows.I do know those memos and released documents out now do not tell the whole story. Women and children were raped in those prisons.And worse.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/126852/explosive_new_documents_reveal_more_details_of_bush-era_torture,_including_prisoners_tortured_to_death/
more
http://www.thememoryhole.org/category/war-on-terror/

The whole premise of the"war on terror" looks suspicious to me considering the secrecy fetish of the bush admin,and how cozy bush was with Saudi king and rev.Moon. And all those unanswered questions that still remain unanswered.So it bothers me a lot to watch Obama thinking he might possibly be ignoring or skirting international law by letting top bush officials off the hook.As for the DOJ, it depends if they got the moral wisdom to take the ones who advocated and wanted torture to jail or not, or if they are gonna wait like chicken shits and let the international courts get them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/04/national/04INTE.html?pagewanted=print

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1104-04.htm

That's my two cents.Yeah I knew..

[bobbolink]

150. Including doctors. Please give them some recognition:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5519931

[puebloknot]

151. We knew, when the Dems went along to get along, and said ...

..."We didn't know. We relied on the intelligence that was available to us at the time."

But all our snake brains, and all their snake brains knew, at a very visceral level, that a group of thugs who had just been installed by a rogue Supreme Court could not be trusted. We've all been down in the crowd, looking up at the emperor wearing no clothes, and marveling at the way our leaders -- yes, our Dem leaders, too -- have been so entranced by said emperor's finery.

There is a scene in the film "The Reader" in which a young German law student goes off on his professor with exactly this same comment: "We knew. We always knew." Or words to that effect. But it was the same indelible moment in which someone finally has the courage to admit the truth.

I do not subscribe to the idea of total collective guilt. Personally, I knew, and I've talked and written my brains out, to no avail. The German people in the 1930s and '40s have been painted with a broad brush as unenlightened and unquestioning followers of Hitler. Too many people in this country have, likewise, followed Bush, unthinkingly and loyally. Many Germans shared the anti-Jewish prejudice of Hitler, but few would have taken the initiative to murder the Jews en masse. They were going about the business of living, and got caught up in a political firestorm. Why give up your perfectly divine life to land on the ash heap of a tyrannical dictator? Wait and see, and keep hope alive. That's what most of us do.

It is true that we must not be silent now. And now there's some hope that we will possibly be listened to. But We the American People have gone along to get along in much the same way the Germans did in WWII. What are the alternatives under fascism? We can stand in front of a tank and be crushed to death, and get our picture in the paper, dead and flattened, but it ends up being a candle burning in the darkness.

In WWII, Sophie Scholl was executed by the Nazis for printing and passing out flyers critical of the Nazi regime. Her story inspires me to this day. But during the Bush reign of terror, there was little that we could do because those we're up against have such an array of draconian weapons to use against us. Most of us decide to lie low, do what we can do without giving up our lives, and wait it out. It may not be the most courageous thing to do, but it is hardly cowardly. Who among us felt it would be worthwhile to die in protest against the Bushes? There was always hope that we would see an end to their tyranny.

I wonder often, as the daughter of a Veteran of Normandy and The Bulge, whether the above formula is going to serve us, whether we may have to hit the streets, finally, to be heard. And some will surely die if it comes to such a pass.

And now it is time for us to use our voices loudly to let the Obama Administration know that we knew then, and we know now, what is right and just and constitutional. Failure to hold the Bush torturers to account will be a permanent and indelible stain on this nation, one from which we are not likely to ever recover.

Gobama. Get out of the way and let the rule of law do its work. You, Mr. Obama, are no emperor.

[Ilovevermont]

152. We knew

Yes, many of us did know. Some of us were ridiculed by friends and acquaintances - back in the days when "God bless America" was the only safe thing to say. I am frustrated that we were able to do so little but now we must not be silent.
Articles like this are one of the reasons I have been reading DU for years and finally recently signed up to post. Please, let it become a chant, a mantra. Those who ordered such things must be brought to justice. Never again!

[lpbk2713]

153. Welcome to DU.

... and Vermont is my most favorite place on earth.


:thumbsup: :hi: :thumbsup:

[texastoast]

155. We knew and THEY KNEW

And THEY were okay with torture.

I fought alongside with all you old DUers and I'm so proud of you all.

WE held their feet to the fire and we kicked their sorry asses out in 2006 and 2008.

This is OUR America and OUR America DOES NOT FUCKING TORTURE--EVER.

FUCK YOU, BUSH-LOVING PIGS!!!!

[Fendius]

157. We knew, we felt it, we worried, and now we act...

For those who acted before and were labled CT.. I praise you and your effort.. Just like those who are looking at new conspiracies, we all know.. I just hope we dont keep saying we knew, i hope we can start saying we KNOW.. 9/11 will be the next one of these threads...

[SkyDaddy7]

158. There is so much NO ONE KNOWS!!

And its coming!!! This is going to get good!

BTW-President Obama set this all in motion! Every news channel is talking about nothing but TOTURE!!!


Thank-you Mr. President! Now pass HealthCare and EFCA!!!!!!!!!

[davidwparker]

160. We also know something else. I won't mention it, so that your thread

doesn't end up in the dungeon.

We know that, too.

[puebloknot]

165. Indeed, we do know that, too. Beyond reasonable doubt. nt

[tbyg52]

161. Of course we knew. We were a) reasonably intelligent and b) paying attention. nt

[PatrynXX]

162. Saw this coming years ago.

Who's line is it "the truth will set you free"

Viola. Big question now is , will there be enough outcry to get Dick behind bars. (Bush is an idiot... I find you no better than Saddam. Both of them were puppets. With very long strings)

[SalmonChantedEvening]

164. You damn right we knew

My friend, the world knew as well. They pretended otherwise.

Those of us who refused to pretend have been blue in the face for 6 years and more.

The lies and the failure have been visible from the beginning.

We Knew is a bitter pill, and now the country must swallow it before the world, or be cast forever into history's pile of great nations who lost their greatness by acting beneath their ideals.


Say AH.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

166. Sometimes I wish I didn't know. I'm sick of being mad at our own guys for

knowing and doing nothing.