Advice would be appreciated: Today my dad was told, basically, you have six to nine months to live

[Mike 03]

I can't even begin to get inside his head and imagine what he is feeling. Yes, I've read a bunch of books about this, but I can't wrap my head around it, and I'm sure he can't either, nor my mother.

Does anybody have any advice about how to begin to sort of deal with this notion that a loved one has a very short time to live, and how to help them, do the very best we possibly can to make these months good for him/her, meet all his needs, etc..

It's so hard. I know that I have to put my fears out of my mind 100% and make my entire goal now to just be there for my father.

And then, I also recognize, I'll need to be there for my mother soon too.

Can anyone recommend any good resources, books, etc.. about how to be strong during a period like this.

I need some kind of advice, strength, from somewhere. I can't seem to stop sobbing.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Yoga, exercise and meditation help, but if anyone has any other ideas they would be hugely appreciated.

I feel bad writing about this here, but I simply have no where else to turn. I can't talk to my sisters about this, or anyone else.

This is the closest I have ever felt to the feeling that I am losing my sanity. It's scarey. I don't know if this is normal or not

[MADem]

1. What's the diagnosis? Is he inclined to fight? If so, I'd go for a second opinion. NT

[Carni]

20. Good advice IMO

My Grandmother was told in the 1950's that she had 6 months to live (cancer)

She just turned 95 in February and she had subsequent bouts with cancer about 7 years ago!

[MADem]

58. If it's cancer, never say never. At least go for the second "guesstimate."

It can't hurt, really. Also, if longevity and beating the odds are part of the DNA, it's definitely a thing to consider.

And honestly, sometimes fighting the good fight (if a person is inclined, mind you) is a goal in and of itself. And sometimes, it works. It sure helps a person to live their life out loud, and be in the moment and push to get cured.

The reality is we don't know how long we have, any of us, and none of us are getting out of this alive, not even Ted Williams and his frozen head. If it were me, I'd be in the "Stand and Deliver" club--Fight, Team, Fight!---they're gonna have to drag me off this mortal coil by my heels.

I'm just having too much fun, even with the day-to-day struggles and bullshit that's attendant with life as we age.

[riderinthestorm]

2. You are going to have to let your dad take the lead on what HE wants to do

Watch for depression. Help him laugh. Rent movies he loves and watch them with him. Depending on his energy level, get out and do things - his favorite things. There's a great photo of Linda McCartney (Paul McCartney's wife) riding her horse on the morning that she passed away. She felt just strong enough to go do this great thing that gave her such joy. Paul (despite his misgivings), just saddled up and headed out.

I am so sorry. This is such a tough time. But you can make it be a great time if you get my drift. Truly this doesn't have to be maudlin.

Get good painkillers!! They can be the difference between a good end or a terrible end. Research your local hospice for your dad and get them on your side. They are great resources at this point, even if he's not bedridden.

Every end-of-life journey is unique and singular, nobody can really tell you the "right" way for you and him. Be there for your dad as you've been during this whole process. You're doing great so far. Trust your instincts.

:hug:

[Mr. Ected]

3. Mike, I'm Unqualified to Advise You

But my heart goes out to you, man.

[Mike 03]

4. Also feel free to PM me if you fee like it

I'm embarrassed to post this, but I have nowhere else to turn.

My dad used to like DU too. I pray he is not on line tonight.

[cliffordu]

5. "On death and dying" by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross.

All the best to you and your family.

[The Straight Story]

11. Same one I was going to say

kick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model

[adamuu]

6. what does he like to do? plan 6-9 months of doing that

does he like to travel

[TNDemo]

7. I have a book recommendation.

Final Gifts by Maggie Callahan and someone else. They were hospice nurses. I remember reading it years ago and being very inspired by it. If you get it, read it first and then decide if you think it would be good to pass on to your dad.

I imagine you are familiar with the stages of grief and sometimes it bounces around a little but is a good guide on what to expect. I would just let him talk and don't try to make things better by diverting the subject. When he gets to the point where he wants to wind things up, ask him how you can help him pull things together. Also think of everything you might ever want to ask him and write it down and then write his answers down. I can look around my house and still have questions for my mother - who did that old sewing machine belong to? What is the story with this piece of jewelry?, etc. Also you might let him dictate the story of his life. There is probably a good bit he hasn't really told you - stories and experiences he had forgotten about.

You can contact hospice now and they will probably have a lot of suggestions on what to do and how to get the legal affairs in order, etc., as well as the emotional issues.

My heart goes out to you. It's a long hard road but one made much more comfortable traveling with a supportive family.

[doctor jazz]

8. Take him fishing.

He's probably dealing with it better than you are. Don't go nuts trying to make up for something you imagine you didn't do in the past...it won't help you and it'll piss him off.

[Natalya Slosky]

9. I don't have any advice for you, but

You and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers. My grandfather passed away in January after a long illness so I sort of know what you're going through. :hug:

[pnwmom]

10. How old are your parents, Mike? nt

[Mari333]

12. do you have a Hospice near you??

they are the best people in the world. contact them. they provide sooo much support. I know.

[geckosfeet]

13. It's a difficult time. Lots of stress and fears come out. You will all work things out in your own

ways. There will be denial and fear and also love and closeness. It is really a time that is rich and profuse with emotions.

I think that it is important to remember to be accepting and understanding of other peoples worlds. Especially your father. He may say and do some things that seem strange and out of context.

But you are right. The most important thing is to just be there, be available and offer support in anyway that he and those around him will accept. Beyond that it is a process of letting go of things so you may find that he simply does not have the same interests that you have. The again, he may cling fiercely to things and fight to the end. Just consider yourself privileged to accompany him on this part of his journey.

No shortage of books on the topic out there. You will find something.

Many thoughts for peace are with you.

[KathieG]

14. 17 years ago, my father was 62 and was told he had between two weeks and two months to live...

I was 21 years old, and had no clue how to deal with it. My father was stoic, he was a real source of strength for the rest of the family...he insisted on chemo even though the doctor said it was pointless. He fought incredibly hard and lasted about 8 months.

I honestly don't know what advice to give you. All I can say is, make the most of your time with your dad...the whole family needs to make the most of whatever time he has. I think it really helped my dad to reminisce with family and friends...we laughed, and talked about the world. My dad joked about robbing a bank...doing something really exciting before it was over.

I was young when my dad passed. My only regret is that I worked too much when he was ill...I wish I had spent just a little more time with him. Spend time with your dad. :pals:

[Iwillnevergiveup]

15. Mike 03

My heart truly goes out to you. My 88 year-old father who has all his marbles wanted to drive him and my mom who has dementia from Maine to Charlottsburg, VA to see Monticello. And maybe do a quick trip to D.C. I offered to drive them. Even though we don't know exactly how long they're going to live, they are certainly up in years and don't have a lot of time.

Is your dad well enough to do a road trip of any kind?

Do you have a family photo album or scrapbook? Now might be a good time to check out the pictures, stick them in if they're loose and of course, add new ones over the coming months.

You're a very considerate son.

[ohheckyeah]

16. I don't have experience with this for a family member

but my closest friend just went through this with her mother. She contacted hospice and they were of immense help. My friend asked her mother what she needed from her and she found out that she (the mother) was afraid of being in pain. My friend let her mother know that she would see she had whatever pain meds she needed and it helped her mother deal with things knowing she had an advocate. My friend lived up to her promise and saw that her mother was out of pain. She learned to give the shots to her mom herself and was with her mom until she passed.

Find someone you can talk to. I made myself available to my friend 24/7. She knew if she needed to talk I would be here for her and I was. Truthfully there were days she couldn't have dealt had she not been able to vent to someone close to her.

I'm very sorry for your father and you. It's a horrible thing to have to go through. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.

[Pithy]

17. Thinking of you, Mike

You are a wonderful son. Please know that we are thinking of you and sending you our prayers.

[Mike 03]

18. Please ignore my drama. I just feel so empty and sad inside. I can't stop

sobbing.

I wish I had someone to turn to, but I just don't really right now.

Thanks for even bothering to read this, but I'm sorry that I subjected anyone to this, and I'm embarrassed and ashamed.

[Bobbie Jo]

26. ((((HUGS))))

Don't be sorry. I don't have anything profound to offer, just :pals:

[ohheckyeah]

27. Drama is sobbing over a broken nail, not

the reality that your father is terminally ill. You don't need to apologize and certainly don't need to be embarrassed and ashamed.

I don't know what your religious affiliation is if you have any but my friend got a lot of support from Jewish Family Services.

[blaze]

36. Don't apologize Mike

Sobbing is ok.

And you have turned to where you know you will find support.

:grouphug:

[jazzjunkysue]

50. Look up the psychologists in your health insurance and just go there to unload.

They can take it. They don't have to really give you advice, all they really need to do is listen.

[SeattleGirl]

51. Mike, this isn't drama. It's one of the heartbreaking parts of life.

Please do not apologize; there is nothing to be sorry for.

Others have given you some good suggestions, so I will give you this: :hug:

My thoughts are with you as you and your family go through this.

[dustbunnie]

53. Well you should be kind of. You aren't the first, and take some stuff inside yourself.

[MADem]

59. This has happened to many of us, you know--particularly those of us

of a certain age. It's horrifically painful to lose a parent. It doesn't matter how old you are, or how old they are, either.

[BeFree]

19. When it is time for me to head out....

I'd want to have some say so on just how and when I was gonna go. That's just me. Some are content to just ride the wave. Ask your dad how he feels about all that.

Meanwhile:
The family will be very tense and nervous. The best thing you can do is be a true peacekeeper. No, not a warrior, a peacemaker.

Show nothing but love and after it is said and done, you'll have no regrets.

See everyone on the other side someday, eh?

[elleng]

21. Hospice,

Talk to them.

[southernyankeebelle]

22. BOY YOU ARE JUST GETTING STARTED - I WOULD FIRST

CHECK WITH HOSPICE HOUSE. THEY ARE REALLY FANTASTIC. THEY REALLY ARE THEIR TO HELP THE FAMILY DURING THE FINAL MONTHS OF ONES LIFE. THEY WILL MAKE HIM COMFORTABLE. THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH. NEXT THING YOU NEED TO DO IS CHECK WITH HIS WORK PLACE AND FIND OUT IF HE HAS ANY TYPE OF INSURANCE POLICY THAT WILL PAY FOR HIS FUNERAL SERVICES. GO OVER TO THE FUNERAL HOME AND MAKE ARRANGEMENTS. YOUR DAD MAY WANT TO DO IT. MY FATHER-IN-LAW DID. IT WAS ONE LESS THING TO WORRY ABOUT. IT WILL TAKE A FEW WEEKS TO GET BACK DEATH CERTIFICATES. OH BY THE WAY IF YOUR DAD OWNS A HOME MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A WILL IN PLACE FOR EVERYTHING. MOST IMPORTANT MAKE SURE HE HAS A LIVING WILL. THAT IS SO VERY, IMPORTANT. IF HE HAS A CAR MAKE SURE HE LEAVES IT TO WHOM HE WANTS. IF YOU ARE AN ONLY CHILD MAKE SURE YOU ARE HIS EXCUTOR OF THE WILL. YOUR MOM WILL BE TO UPSET TO TAKE CARE OF THINGS. FINALLY AFTER HE DIES GO TO A LAWYER AND PROBATE THE WILL. THAN MAKE SURE YOUR MOM HAS ANOTHER WILL DONE WITH YOUR NAME ON WHATEVER PROPERTY SHE IS GOING TO LEAVE TO YOU. ALSO MAKE SURE SHE HAS A LIVING WILL AND HAVE HER GIVE YOU PROWER OF ATTORNEY TO SIGN CHECKS AND DO SIGNATURES ON ANY IMPORTANT PAPERS. I THINK I COVERED EVERYTHING THAT IS IMPORTANT. GOOD LUCK. WE ALL HAVE OUR TIME TO BARE THESE SAD DAYS. MY BROTHER DIED AT THE AGE OF 39 YRS OLD. NEVER SMOKED A DAY IN HIS LIFE. HE DIED OF LUNG CANCER. HE WAS SO SAD BECAUSE HE WASN'T READY TO GO. BE PATIENT WITH YOUR DAD. MY FATHER-IN-LAW HAD CANCER FOR OVER 10 YRS AND HE HAD A GOOD SENSE OF HUMOR. THAT HELPED THE REST OF US BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH HIS SICKNESS UNTIL THE VERY END. HE WAS OUR HERO. HE MADE IT EASY FOR US. I WILL PRAY FOR YOU. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. GOD GIVES EACH ONE OF US A LEMON IN LIFE. IN THE END YOU WILL MAKE LEMON AIDE BECAUSE YOU WILL DIE OF SADDENESS IF YOU DON'T. NO ONE WANTS TO BE AROUND A SAD PERSON. IT TOOK ME A YEAR TO GET OVER MY BROTHER'S DEATH. IT TAKES TIME. JUST BE THERE FOR YOUR PARENTS. LET HIM KNOW HOW MUCH YOU LOVE HIM AND WHAT A GOOD DAD HE WAS. YOU WILL HANDLE IT. YOU WILL BE SURPRISED. RIGHT NOW DAD IS IN DENIAL, THAN HE'LL BE MADE, THAN HE WILL EXCEPT IT AND FINALLY HE WILL LET GO WHEN HE IS READY. JUST HOLD HIS HAND ALONG THE WAY.

[Lars39]

28. Please don't type in all caps...it is considered rude, like you are shouting.

[madamesilverspurs]

31. Ordinarily.

Mom used to type her emails in all caps, it was the only way she could see what she was writing. She no longer sees well enough to email. I miss her all caps missives.

Sometimes there are reasons. . .

[Carni]

30. I don't think he is looking for legal advice :(

This is quite a post...

The man asks for solace and advice regarding grasping with the serious illness of a loved one and you type all in caps about death cerificates and living wills and tell him "Boy you're just getting started"

More than a tad bit insensitive IMO

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Be there, but also let your fears come out

this is normal

[BlueCollar]

24. No advice...just my thoughts...n/t

[KT2000]

25. Do for him

what he wants, what you know he enjoys, keep yourself busy if you can.
When I was in that situation I started with tremendous anxiety and then something weird happened. The anxiety eased and I just sort of skated through the days - feeling light, like I was a puppet. Our disagreements just evaporated and I feel like I had the priviledge of doing what I could to make things easier. it was a busy time but very precious.

I know this sounds strange but your strength will come from your love for them.

[dustbunnie]

29. Listen to every fracking thing he has to say.

Even when friends come to take your place, always be there. They have differing ideas, and he might want to discuss his ideas with you, in the most innocuous way. The dying have friends, but it isn't the same as family. Be there.

Let him say whatever he wants to and pick up on that for the final moment. He'll tell you sixteen ways from Tuesday what he thought or what he fears in some way, so pick up on that. Just hold his hand, even if it takes days. Be there. :)

Edited to add: Later on, when it gets to be that time. Sometimes all you have to say is the right thing, and the beloved people will let go... figure out what that is, and they will be in peace. It could be nothing, just saying how much you appreciated the one Christmas or some family outing, or a private conversation.

[Born_A_Truman]

32. Oh Mike

Two days before my birthday in 1990 my mom and dad called me at work to tell me mom had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. The doctor walked into the room and bluntly told my mom that she needed to "go home and get her affairs in order, she had 3 to 6 months to live." I fell apart. I was stunned and of course my parents were in shock. She went to a surgeon after that, but was told they couldn't operate. Her HMO did switch her to an oncologist and she did chemo and radiation.

I cried myself to sleep each night and woke up and realized it wasn't a dream and I cried in the car on the way to work every day. I was angry and I called up the HMO headquarters and told them that the doctor who diagnosed her shouldn't be allowed to treat a dog, let alone my mother. City of Hope wouldn't take her because her HMO wouldn't give her a referral.

At the time I lived in Studio City and they lived about 120 away, where I live now. I would pick up my sister and we would go up on weekends to see her and to give dad a break. If things were slow at work I took a day off and went up to see her. She had planned on going to her 50th high school reunion back in the small Iowa town where she grew up, but now she couldn't because of her treatments. My sister and I took a road trip and I bought a video camera (they were huge back then--held a full size VHS) and we made a video of our trip back to Iowa. We took video of her high school, her childhood home, her church, the lake where she ice skated as a child and teen ager, things like that. We came back and watched 4 full two hour tapes with my parents.

I had a co-worker who had a big music library make her cassette tapes of all her favorite songs from the 40's. We spent alot of time with her, and when it came time for hospice, we were grateful for their kindness and education. She wanted to be home, so we had hospice come there three times a week. In early spring, hospice told my sister and I that we should stay and not go home, that it would be very soon. My sister took time off and I brought my work there and we stayed 5 weeks. We took care of her 24/7 and were there for my dad. She lived 11 months from diagnosis.

I can tell you my only regret was that I didn't take more time off work and go and stay sooner. She passed on 5/2/91, one week before Mother's Day. I had pretty much cried all the tears I had and was so glad she was no longer in any pain, although hospice helped so much with that, so she didn't seem to really suffer. I have her journal she wrote during those months and now I know how much it meant to her when we came to visit and spend time with her.

If you want to talk, please PM me and I'll be there for you.

[spanone]

33. my mother, 2000

enjoy every day as much as you can. laugh, cry. remember. forgive. accept.

my mom got a twelve week notice.....more if she took chemo....she took one round of chemo and called it off....she passed twelve weeks later....

but through the suffering and the knowing of what's to come, it was the best time ever with my mom. i learned to love her all over again in a sense.

we used beau coups of humor. you also have inner strengths that will instinctively kick in...trust them....death is a part of life....






:hug:

[applegrove]

34. Vibes & (((HUGS)))

[buzzycrumbhunger]

35. It's hardest on the family

I think what you're looking for is a way for you to cope with the unimaginable. I think the people in your dad's position come to terms with mortality pretty quickly. My dad was given 3 months to live after being diagnosed with leukemia, but was such an ornery cuss (yay for Scottish genes) that he lived over 3 years. You kind of have to let your dad dictate how he wants to use his time, but do make sure you cover all the bases together so there are no regrets. Do something memorable, have deep conversations. Record him telling family stories. Tell him you love him.

Hospice, as already suggested, is a great resource--for the family as well as the patient. Let them counsel and comfort you a bit. It doesn't seem to matter how old we get, it's still scary to think we're going to be orphaned. Hope you have someone IRL to grab onto for a therapeutic bear hug because sometimes, that's about all there is you can do.

:hug:

[Rockholm]

37. Get a Second Opinion..and a Third...

I have heard stories of people given months to live and they have lived quality lives for years. Don;t accept one person's opinion.
If there is really a short time left, make the most of it. I would.

[stray cat]

38. What your feeling is pretty normal. Listen to your dad and your mom and take care of yourself

GIve yourself plenty of room ie permssion to feel sad, crazy, angry you name it. Get plenty of sleep if you can and stay physically active. If you have any close friends who listen well - lean on them while your family ie mom and dad lean on you. Bests wishes to you and your family. There is a book I have read written by a person with a similar prognosis - I think its called the Last Lecture. Also, Tuesdays with Morrie? Get hospice help if you can - they can help.

[ArtVandelay]

39. My dad was given 18 months and lived 11 years, mostly healthy.

So just don't give up on him. Most of all make sure you forgive him inside yourself for anything he ever did that hurt you. It is a waste of energy to hold that in and bad for both of you.

Also they diagnosed my grandma with lung cancer and gave her weeks to live. She died this March, 18 years later,at the age of 98 and she never even HAD lung cancer!

[Stephanie]

40. Yes it's normal

In a few days you will stop sobbing and start to think about what you can do for him. The beautiful thing in your post is the heartfelt love you have for your Dad. The best thing you can do is be there for him as his rock in his time of need. He will be comforted just knowing he has raised a caring, loving son. What a wonderful contribution he has made to this crazy world. That is a beautiful legacy and one that will comfort him no matter what happens.

[uppityperson]

41. Hugs to you and you sound normal, not losing your sanity

One of the hardest thing to do is have a parent die, have to deal with it. If there is a hospice or a group near you dealing with death and dying issues, talk with them as this is what they do.

Of course you are upset. Of course you cry. Of course you feel like you are going crazy. Things are out of your control and good grief losing a parent can be really really really hard.

My advice:
Make sure you take care of yourself. Eat, drink (low alcohol), sleep in amounts that will keep you healthy.

Benadryl is otc and is the part of "tylenol pm" that makes it "pm", but you can get it on its own. One won't knock you out, it is an antihistamine, but can help you go back to sleep when you finally fall asleep then wake with a start, thinking "omg, my dad".

Find hospice or a group as they can help.

Take care of yourself. If you get sick, it won't help anyone. Take care of yourself.

[madamesilverspurs]

42. Prayers and good thoughts to you.

We got Dad to tell stories about his growing up. Learned much that we hadn't known, raised eyebrows now and then, laughed more than we'd expected. We made sure that he always had paper and pens and pencils; some of his notes to himself we have yet to decipher, but it's his handwriting, y'know? We even asked his opinion on current events; he felt involved, and his answers were a pretty fair gauge of his level of awareness. And we were advised to 'play' now and then, walk into the room wearing something outrageous just to get a reaction, that kind of thing.

I'm glad you brought it here. Don't stop taking it wherever you find help. There's no rehearsal for losing a parent, please don't berate yourself for your tears. We each have two shoulders so that we can lend one when it's needed.

[Mnemosyne]

43. Treasure the time.

:hug:

[Uben]

44. Been there, Mike

I lost my dad to cancer back in '91. My wife got breast cancer in 2003. She had a mastectomy and has been fine since. Dealing with the reality of it takes a little time. It scares us all, but as time goes by you realize that you cannot change the way things are and all you can do is make good with the time you have. I have spent months on cancer forums conversing with others in similar situations, and it helps you understand how to deal with a loved one's cancer by relating to each other.

Losing your dad is tough, especially if you have a very close relationship like I had. I still think of him every day. Now it looks like my mom has lymphoma. She is 75. I can't change that, so all I can do is spend time with her and let her know how much I love her. We have accepted our mortality. We had a great life during the times we lived together.


Go to DU groups and click on Lifestyle Peer Support and self-help. Then click on the cancer forum. You will find others there who have cancer or have a loved one with cancer. We talk about it and support each other. It does good to talk about it.

[Peacetrain]

45. Mike, I lost my Dad almost 2 years ago..

It was so fast, that I never got to say goodbye. Don't worry about the time you have left, it will drive you crazy..just take the time you have and live it fully.

Meditation is very helpful, and don't be afraid to back away for a few days also just to give yourself a chance to recharge your batteries.

I am so sorry, there is nothing that can stop the pain.. but I tried to remember, when I would pull my car to the side of the road and just sob myself, that how sad it would have been not to have missed him that much. Not to have loved him that much.

And the counselors at Hospice, awesome..

[amborin]

46. i am so sorry!

you didn't say what is wrong with him

can you take him to the Mayo clinic? I don't mean to sound flippant or insensitive

One thing that really helps is exercise, which you mentioned

also, maybe some soothing chamomile tea, and nutritous food to keep your strength up

it's scary to think of being without a dear parent, but your father is lucky to have you!

just being there for your father is so wonderful, going to appointments, keeping him
company, spending time with him

[SoDesuKa]

47. Take Each Day as it Comes

People who are dying often get tired of being different from the rest of us. Sometimes they just want to talk sports or argue about politics - you know, the normal things they like to do. My friend John who passed away from cancer was grateful just to be himself when I came to see him. He knew he was dying, but we used to talk about his hobbies and his interests. He enjoyed it, and it's allowed.

People with only a few months to live get tired of seeing long faces; wouldn't you? Allow them the comfort of normal life as they've come to know it. It's not denial; it's compassion.

[defendandprotect]

48. I have no experience with this . . .

so naturally I'm here to give you advice!

You, yourself, are going to need some kind of support -- a friend, lover, social worker, psychologist?

But, basically, it has to be your Dad who dictates what will happen. How much he wants
to talk about this. Whether he wants to see other doctors. Try other treatments.
What time is left is his to decide upon.

And I'm sure you will have to eventually talk with siblings.

Like your Mom, everyone will be emotionally involved.

Try to put your thoughts and feelings down in a "journal" -- any notebook will do --
pen and paper -- keep at it every day.

I may be wrong, but I think your Dad will also need time to sort out his
thoughts -- perhaps alone for a while?

Spirituality has little to do with organized religion --
there are other ways to think about things. For instance, many believe in reincarnation.
And they suggest that many spirits mingle together in repeated lifetimes.

I've often noticed in my experiences that as I feel the stress and harm done by something
happening within my life or the lives of my family, I come to realize that it could always
be worse! Small comfort, eh? But the story of the little girl with no shoes is often
repeated in real life. Even if you're young, you'll begin to notice that.

Perhaps there is a pre-agreement to the experiences we have in our lifetimes?
Perhaps the strongest spirits take on the most difficult lives?

Most of all realize that you are so saddened because you have had a wonderful, loving Dad.
Not everyone does!

[MnFats]

49. work into your conversations acknowledgement of things he did for you...

things he perhaps thinks you've forgotten --- or that he has forgotten. A fishing trip, a book he gave the scenery on a trip you took.
some sage advice he gave you that worked out for you. just some examples....you know what I mean.

this is part of helping him realize that he was dear to the people in his life...that he won't be forgotten after he's gone. I have been through situations sort of like yours and little things help him work through things.

let him know he was a good parent, even if that means shading the truth a little.


get him to tell you stories about when he was a kid, his first car......you know what I mean.

well, these are just some ideas that pop into the mind.
come back here when u need some support .... DU people are like norwegian grandmas...they love to help. they won't let you leave until you get some.

[PufPuf23]

52. Hospice people are wonderful in my experience.

My Dad passed away at 86 in 1996 from renal cancer that had spread nearly everywhere. He had a long and good life; I was born when he was 43 and we were great friends once I became an adult. I was his only son and he was more intimate with me than my two sisters, largely because we had similar interests and world view (my sisters became fundies once married and there were other issues). He outlived our mother by 25 years even tho 5 years older. He was a WWII vet and other than that he lived his entire life in a small isolated town of no more than 600 pop. He only went to 8th grade but he was one of the most intelligent, honest, and hardworking people I have ever met.

He was not particularly ill but pissed pink and called me to come home. The oncologist said you have two kidneys, lets take out one. The surgery went poorly as they tore the underside of his spleen and the surgeons did not realize the problem until his body cavity filled with blood; they tried to save the spleen but it became a choice of him or the spleen. Two days later and then again two months later they had to re-enter for internal bleeding. He never really recovered from the surgeries but lived 9 months. I lived 500 miles distant and was married but I took a leave of absence from my job and my then wife and step child. I went with him to dr appointments, blood bank for his surgery, etc. While he was in the hospital, I rented and furnished a condo near the medical facilities. It was set up for older people with a shower that could accommodate a wheelchair, handholds, etc. The American Cancer Society provided a hospital bed, walker, and various other items that would not occur to me. Unfortunately, I believe he would have lived longer with more quality life and a more natural death if the surgery had not occurred but the oncologist was so positive.

Practically first take care of some pragmatic issues:

1. Will
2. Power of Attorney for health care.
3. Put your name on bank accounts, safety deposit box, etc.
4. You might want to see someone to help with estate planning if this is an issue.

He had a long term general care physician that helped me. He put me in contact with the American Cancer Society and the county hospice. Also after the surgery, the biopsy came back and he was riddled with cancer. His doctor advised me to tell him only if he asked. He never did so I didn't. I had a day off every week to ten days where his neighbor and good friend would stay and I would drive the 2.5 hrs to his ranch to take care of things and wind down usually. My wife and step daughter would drive down every several weeks for the weekends.

There were four hospice nurses that came twice a day each for two hours. They were wonderful. They advised me on food to buy (Insure, broths, etc.) When I did not have errands to run, there was time with the hospice nurses to play and laugh and I fell in love (sort of) with at least two of them. I hired a massage therapist and herbalist (my Dad was an amateur Ewell Gibbons(sp)) that came twice a week that would give him massages and teas. I went to the forest to gather some of the herbs myself. When he was able to use the walker, I would encourage him to let me take him for a drive. We would go to special spots in the Redwood forests we each knew and sit and chat or read or listen to the radio. I brought old pictures from my Mom's cedar chest and we talked and I asked him questions too. We watched football in the fall and baseball in the spring and he passed away July 4th. My wife and other family were mostly all there that final day.

Some of the time especially near the end were unimaginable to me. He turned into a stick figure with a bloated abdomen. His entrails would literal drop out his ass and I would clean him and shove them back in. He had nightmare and twice in the night managed to get over the rails of the hospital bed before I woke (in the next room).

The hospice nurses provided morphine drops near the end. He was in great pain and refused to take them. The hospice nurses knew better and gave the morphine to him in his food. At one point we told him of the trick and then accepted the pain relief. This near the end. My Dad was stubborn and I was always the good but not always in agreement son. One day my favorite hospice nurse asked me if I had noticed what had occurred that day. We had switched positions and I became the parent and he the essentially helpless infant in a psychological sense. There were some truly wonderful things as well as painful things and from my perspective I had never realized in the then 43 years of my life we would ever be so close. We spoke of things never mentioned before at times.

The end is near when a catheter is necessary. He lived four more days but that was the day he essentially gave up and wanted to die.

All in all, I had more difficulty with my sisters and one BIL as executor of his estate. Part of the problem was that as he declined, he clearly favored me as far as my wisdom and family commitment. If they asked questions, he would say talk to Bill about it. This caused resentment and I wish there had been a pro-active way to have dealt with this.

Again Hospice people are wonderful in my experience. This can be one of the more meaningful and real experiences of your life. I regret most that he had the surgery because he probably would have lived longer and the only quality of life is what I described. The hospice nurses were helpful to me even after Dad passed on. Another thing is when the end draws near make sure you get the funeral arrangements settled and to his desires. I never thought of this and had to do this quickly on the fly and in an emotional state. I gave big donations to hospice and the American Cancer Society and donated his clothes and other similar items to the ACS. I started without a clue just grief like you.

[lynne]

54. Get a second opinion and do not give up -

- my father was told to get his affairs in order, he was given days, weeks to live. Everything was planned, right down to which funeral home we would use and what suit he would wear. He lived for about 5 more years. I'm talking came home and had a fairly decent quality of life. The doctor's couldn't explain it. They're just doctor's - not God's.

Other than that, just spend time with your Dad and listen to what he needs to say and wants to share with you. That's the best thing for both of you at this point. Wishing you and your family all the best during what is always a difficult time.

[arthritisR_US]

55. ((Mike)). What you're feeling is completely normal. The first stage of grief is disbelief and with

that an all encompassing sense of surrealism (this can't be true, this can't be happening...). Sobbing is good, tears cleanse the soul. There are certain processes that you and your family are going to go through, all of which are to be expected and normal. Be kind to yourself Mike and keep on loving your dad as you clearly always have. Hope this helps mate...

Here is the grief model called "The 7 Stages of Grief":


7 Stages of Grief...

1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
You will probably react to learning of the illness and eventual loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the situation at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

2. PAIN & GUILT-
As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs. (Sobbing is good!)

You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the situation on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.

You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just make him well")

4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.

During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of the situation, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your Dad, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.

7 Stages of Grief...

5. THE UPWARD TURN-
As you start to adjust to diagnosis, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed the illness. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and thereby help your Mum.

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.


I have found that these stages can overlap and you can experience several at once. Please take care of yourself, be kind to yourself...I can't stress this enough. My heart goes out to you and your family for the road you have yet to travel. Peace friend.

:hug:

[Stinky The Clown]

56. You got two people to worry about. Dad and you. And you're the bigger worry.

Funny thing about humans ...... we're all generally equipped to deal with the natural progressions of life.

That's parents are at their most protective and loving with their children when they are little, dependent and generally helpless.

Its why kids rebel and parents get exasperated as the kids are preparing themselves to leave the nest.

It explains a middle age adult's propensity to work hard and build for the future and the empty nester's propensity to love their kids dearly and love when they leave to return to their *own* homes.

And most of all, it explains the fatalistic stoicism of the aged and aging, and their children's ability to worry incessantly, to do desperate things to unsuccessfully save their dying parent, and to hope for the end to come soon so the dying parent no longer suffers.

I've experienced most of this and am now, myself, feeling the early stirrings of stoic fatalism. We're remarkable, really, in our ability to carry on and do well at each stage of the natural progressions of living.

When the order of things change, when a parent outlives a child, that's not natural. And none of this applies.

Trust yourself.

And love your Dad. He'll want to feel that. It will fulfill him. Its likely what he most wants.









...... and take care of yourself, too. You'll be here a good while longer.

[stopbush]

57. Having been through this same scenario with my dad and my wife's dad

I'd say the following:

1. Take this time to do things that your dad enjoys, perhaps take a trip that he always wanted to take but never did. You can do nothing better for him and yourself than to spend quality time with him. Try to avoid unburdening yourself with the "dad, I never told you this, but..." stuff...unless you've never told him that you love him.

2. Don't dwell on "the end." Dwell on the today and look one day forward.

3. Accept the fact that the doctors are probably right in their diagnosis. You are not "giving up on your dad" by accepting the diagnosis. I have been through the getting a second and third opinion, and I can tell you it just adds to the hurt and it won't change a thing. Any qualified cancer doctor offering a different opinion is going to suggest the same treatments that your first doctor suggested. Forget the quack treatments - they cost money and don't do a thing.

Your dad may be one of those who beats the odds. He may even live a long time. But that will happen if it happens whether you run all over creation looking for "better news" or not. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. The exception to the diagnosis cases are just that - exceptions.

4. Find out what pain medications work best for your dad. He need not suffer through this. There are no extra points alloted for suffering.

5. Have an honest, one-on-one talk with your dad's doctor. No other family members. It doesn't need to be long, but you'll get a lot out of it.

6. You can find strength in your present relationship with your dad and your family. Believe me, the sobbing will be much worse once he's gone. He's there for you, now. You're there for him - now. Lots of people aren't so fortunate when they're facing their own mortality.

7. Continue to treat him like an adult. Discuss adult stuff. There's no need to traipse off into candy coated land. You'll both appreciate it, especially when you're forced to deal with doctors as they go off into Mumbleland as they discuss your dad's condition. That really gets old fast - the half-answers and the shoving off of tons of useless information on you, all designed to influence you to not blame the doctors/hospital for any problems that arise during this time. Don't be afraid to demand what you know your dad needs.

Oh, and your dad is going to have days when he is really pissed off. It's normal. Much of it will come because he'll want answers when there aren't any answers. I can't help you there. Listening is probably the best you can do.

8. This might sound corny, but those of us who survive such ordeals can learn by going through them. After all, we are all destined to die. Your dad will be an inspiration to you during this period, as you will be to him.

It's tough. A lot of it you'll need to make up for yourself along the way. But you can do it. Hell, you were strong enough to bring this to a public forum like DU. I'm not worried about you. Your dad is a lucky guy.