The Memos Prove We Didn't Torture

[JimGinPA]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124018665408933455.html


The Red Cross was completely wrong about 'walling.'

The four memos on CIA interrogation released by the White House last week reveal a cautious and conservative Justice Department advising a CIA that cared deeply about staying within the law. Far from "green lighting" torture -- or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees -- the memos detail the actual techniques used and the many measures taken to ensure that interrogations did not cause severe pain or degradation.

Interrogations were to be "continuously monitored" and "the interrogation team will stop the use of particular techniques or the interrogation altogether if the detainee's medical or psychological conditions indicates that the detainee might suffer significant physical or mental harm."

~snip~

The four memos on CIA interrogation released by the White House last week reveal a cautious and conservative Justice Department advising a CIA that cared deeply about staying within the law. Far from "green lighting" torture -- or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees -- the memos detail the actual techniques used and the many measures taken to ensure that interrogations did not cause severe pain or degradation.

Interrogations were to be "continuously monitored" and "the interrogation team will stop the use of particular techniques or the interrogation altogether if the detainee's medical or psychological conditions indicates that the detainee might suffer significant physical or mental harm."

Messrs. Rivkin and Casey, who served in the Justice Department under George H.W. Bush, were U.S. delegates to the U.N. Subcommission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights.



This article was posted on another "political" board I post on. I'm pretty sure it's in response to the many threads I've started about torture there and I'd be interested to hear what others here have to say about this before I respond.

[ananda]

1. Must be some crazyass definition of pain and degradation.

AFAIAC, it was torture and pure evil.

[underpants]

3. This is the Wall Street Journal editorials.

This was a useless article other than them showing that they are still loyal.

[Junkdrawer]

2. Since there will never be trials where the above nonsense could be debunked...

it will forever be a "debated" issue.

[Solly Mack]

9. Yep

The whole "is water-boarding really torture?" bullshit a few years ago served that purpose.

If it's debatable, then how could anyone really be guilty? Because if it's debatable, then it becomes just a matter of opinion. And if it's opinion, then both sides of the "debate" become It is/It isn't. No different from he said/she said.

That's the narrative they were going for....to muddle the issue so much that fact had little chance of winning out. Keep it a "debate"...a matter of "opinion"....then the truth gets lost in the back and forth.

Competing books will be published. Competing articles will be written.

And it won't matter that some of those books show the facts....because it's all a matter of opinion now. The "truth" is up for debate. The facts are up for debate.

Because there will be no trials. There will be no accountability that sets the record straight.

Same thing with calling torture a "policy" difference. Raising taxes or not is a policy difference that can exist between 2 people. Whether or not to torture isn't a policy difference - since torture is a crime. Just not the same thing at all.

[Junkdrawer]

13. Thanks. Exactly what I was thinking....

:hi:

[Solly Mack]

14. No - thank you!

That very thing (framing it as debatable) has been pissing me off for years.

[ProSense]

4. The Empty Circularity of the Lastest Batch of OLC Torture Memos

The Empty Circularity of the Lastest Batch of OLC Torture Memos :

This defense was always a stretch, given the transparent weakness of the legal analysis in the memos (later withdrawn as faulty by the Bush Administration). With the latest release of torture memos, however, this defense completely falls to pieces.

Lawyer up!

[stillcool]

5. egads...'cautious'...

here's the letter I sent to my Congressman and Senators...


I am writing to you regarding the torture memos that were just released. We've been reading these stories for years, and I didn't think it was possible for new information to phase me one way or another, but I was wrong. These memos reveal a cunning, devious, intricate legal finding to allow a nation to wholly act with brutality and disregard for any human life. The controlled, specific directions to provide the thinnest thread of legal cover for what the whole world considers torture is mind bending. It's one thing to torture. It's quite another to legalize it in such minute detail. I have no idea how to make this right. But I do know that some action is necessary. It is impossible to look away. The totality of the destruction to our country and from our country can not be reconciled in any way. There isn't enough rationalization in the world. Believe me I've tried. Past empires have behaved with human cruelty and depravity, and they all suffered their fates. I believe we will too. I just wish there were some way to at least have our government appear to care, appear to have a conscious. I hope that you and your colleagues can find some way to act. Do anything, but do something. Thank you.

[CrispyQ]

10. Excellent letter!

Mine was not nearly so good, but I sent sent it anyway. I wish I could recommend your post.

Not until We the People get as fired up about calling & writing our congress person's on this issue, as we were on the bailout issue last fall, will we see something happen. Even CNN reported that the SOB switchboard was backed up due to the number of calls constituents made. It looks like we'll find out where our values are, as a nation. Do we care as much about our country's integrity as we do about our 401k's?

The rest of the world is watching.

[gratuitous]

6. You expect the criminals to just confess their crimes?

Not likely. Seizing on isolated excerpts from the memos and without recourse to the actual testimony not only of the tortured but also the torturers, a case can be made to dupe the gullible (hence its appearance on the op-ed page of the Wall Street Journal) that this was a "cautious and conservative" approach trying to stay within the law. And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

[blogslut]

7. Rivkin & Casey

Both work for Baker & Hostetler - A law firm that specializes in defending the highest of the high and the lowest of the low. Don't let the adorable bio @ the bottom fool you.

Rivkin is an especially disgusting man.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. Why is their opinion anymore valid than yours or ours? Many lawyers have come to an opposite

conclusion.

[JDPriestly]

11. Read Jane Mayer's book, The Dark Side, and then you will find

this WSJ to be what it is -- a whitewash. The WSJ knows that the torture violated international law. The memos read like documents from the NAZI era.

But then, what do you expect of the WSJ? More than any media in the U.S. the WSJ's silence on the economy is responsible for our current mess. The WSJ is supposed to have expertise on the economy. That's why I blame it.

And, remember, the WSJ is brought to you by the same people who bring you Fox News. So, consider the source. The WSJ and the Washington Times -- two mouthpieces for the extreme right.

The WSJ has no humanity, no soul. So what's new?

[JDPriestly]

12. We need prosecutions. We need trials.

Obama is not putting the controversy to rest by avoiding his duty. He is just prolonging the misery, the confusion, the questions, the disagreements. Time to get to work, President Obama. Nobody promised you a rose garden . . . . . or did they?