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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 11:56 AM
Original message
British Sailors – Real Crisis or Excuse for War – Veteran Intel Profs - Johnson, Crowley, McGovern
Edited on Sat Mar-31-07 12:01 PM by autorank
GULF OF TONKIN??? Take a look at what retired intelligence community vets are saying.

Intel Vets Question the Iraq-UK Crisis



March 30, 2007

Editor’s Note: Below is an assessment by a group of former U.S. intelligence analysts about the crisis between Iran and the United Kingdom over the seizure of 15 British naval personnel for allegedly crossing into Iranian territorial waters: Share this article

From: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)
Ray Close, Larry Johnson, David MacMichael, Ray McGovern, Coleen Rowley,
SUBJECT: Brinkmanship Unwise in Uncharted Waters
Permission to Reprint & Distribute


The frenzy in America’s corporate media over Iran’s detainment of 15 British Marines who may, or may not, have violated Iranian-claimed territorial waters is a flashback to the unrestrained support given the administration’s war-mongering against Iraq shortly before the attack.

The British are refusing to concede the possibility that its Marines may have crossed into ill-charted, Iranian-claimed waters and are ratcheting up the confrontation. At this point, the relative merits of the British and Iranian versions of what actually happened are greatly less important than how hotheads on each side—and particularly the British—decide to exploit the event in the coming days.

There is real danger that this incident, and the way it plays out, may turn out to be outgoing British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s last gesture of fealty to President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, and “neo-conservative” advisers who, this time, are looking for a casus belli to “justify” air strikes on Iran.


Bush and Cheney no doubt find encouragement in the fact that the Democrats last week refused to include in the current House bill on Iraq war funding proposed language forbidding the White House from launching war on Iran without explicit congressional approval.

If the Senate omits similar language, or if the prohibition disappears in conference, chances increase for a “pre-emptive” US and/or Israeli strike on Iran and a major war that will make the one in Iraq seem like a minor skirmish. The impression, cultivated by the White House and our domesticated media, that Saudi Arabia and other Sunni-majority states might favor a military strike on Iran is a myth.
But the implications go far beyond the Middle East. With the Russians and Chinese, the US has long since forfeited the ability, exploited with considerable agility in the 70s and 80s, to play one off against the other. In fact, US policies have helped drive the two giants together. They know well that it’s about oil and strategic positioning and will not stand idly by if Washington strikes Iran.
Lying Poodle

Intelligence analysts place great store in sources’ record for reliability and the historical record. We would be forced to classify Tony Blair as a known prevaricator who, for reasons still not entirely clear, has a five-year record of acting as man’s best friend for Bush. If the President needs a casus belli, Blair will probably fetch it.

Is there, then, any British statesman well versed in both the Middle East and maritime matters, who is worthy of trust? There is. Craig Murray is former UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan (until he was cashiered for openly objecting to UK and US support for torture there) and also former head of the maritime section of the British Foreign Office, and has considerable experience negotiating disputes over borders extending into the sea.

In recent days, former ambassador Murray has performed true to character in courageously speaking out, taking public issue with the British government’s position on the incident at hand. He was quick to quote, for example, the judiciously balanced words of Commodore Nick Lambert, the Royal Navy commander of the operation on which the Marines were captured:

“There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they were in Iraqi territorial waters. Equally, the Iranians may well claim that they were in their territorial waters. The extent and definition of territorial waters in this part of the world is very complicated.”

Compare the commodore’s caution with the infallible certainty with which Blair has professed to be “utterly confident” that the Marines were in Iraqi waters, and you get an idea of what may be Blair’s ultimate purpose.

Writing in his widely read blog (http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/weblog.html ), Murray points to a “colossal problem” with respect to the map the British government has used to show coordinates of the incident and the Iran/Iraq maritime border—the story uncritically accepted by stenographers of the mainstream press. Murray writes:

“The Iran/Iraq maritime boundary shown on the British government map does not exist. It has been drawn up by the British Government. Only Iraq and Iran can agree on their bilateral boundary, and they have never done this in the Gulf, only inside the Shatt because there it is the land border too. This published boundary is a fake with no legal force...Anyway, the UK was plainly wrong to be ultra-provocative in disputed waters...

“They would under international law have been allowed to enter Iranian territorial waters if in ’hot pursuit’ of terrorists, slavers, or pirates....But they were looking for smuggled vehicles attempting to evade car duty. What has the evasion of Iranian or Iraqi taxes got to do with the Royal Navy?”


Ambassador Murray has appealed to reason and cooler heads. To state what should be the obvious, he notes it is not legitimate for the British government to draw a boundary without agreement of the countries involved:

“A little more humility, and an acknowledgement that this is a boundary subject to dispute, might actually get our people home. The question is are we really aiming to get our people home, or to maximize propaganda from the incident?”

War Dreams

What is known at this point regarding the circumstances suggests Royal Navy misfeasance rather than deliberate provocation. The way the UK and US media has been stoked, however, suggests that both London and Washington may decide to represent the intransigence of Iranian hotheads as a casus belli for the long prepared air strikes on Iran.
And not to be ruled out is the possibility that we are dealing with a provocation ab initio. Intelligence analysts look to precedent, and what seems entirely relevant in this connection is the discussion between Bush and Blair on Jan. 31, 2003 six weeks before the attack on Iraq.

The “White House Memo” (like the famous “Downing Street Memo” leaked earlier to the British press) shows George Bush broaching to Blair various options to provoke war with Iraq. The British minutes—the authenticity of which is not disputed by the British government—of the Jan. 31, 2003 meeting stated the first option as:

“The US was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in UN colours. If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach.”

Not to mention the (in)famous Tonkin Gulf non-incident, used by President Lyndon Johnson to justify bombing North Vietnam.

The increasingly heavy investment of "face" in the UK Marine capture situation is unquestionably adding to the danger of an inadvertent outbreak of open hostilities. One side or the other is going to be forced to surrender some of its pride if a more deadly confrontation is going to be averted.
And there is no indication that the Bush administration is doing anything other than encouraging British recalcitrance.

Unless one’s basic intention is to provoke a hostile action to which the US and UK could “retaliate,” getting involved in a tit-for-tat contest with the Iranians is a foolish and reckless game, for it may not prove possible to avoid escalation and loss of control. And we seem to be well on our way there. If one calls Iran "evil,” arrests its diplomats, accuses it of promoting terrorism and unlawful capture, one can be certain that the Iranians will retaliate and raise the stakes in the process.

That is how the game of tit-for-tat is played in that part of the world. What British and American officials seem not to be taking into account is that the Iranians are the neighborhood toughs. In that neighborhood, they control the conditions under which the game will be played. They can change the rules freely any time they want; the UK cannot, and neither can Washington.

Provocative behavior, then, can be very dangerous, unless you mean to pick a fight you may well regret.

Someone should recount to Tony Blair and Ayatollah Khameini the maxim quoted by former United Nations chief weapons inspector Hans Blix just last week:

"The noble art of losing face
Will someday save the human race."


By:
Ray Close, Princeton, NJ
Larry Johnson, Bethesda, MD
David MacMichael, Linden, VA
Ray McGovern, Arlington, VA
Coleen Rowley, Apple Valley, MN


Steering Group
Veteran Intelligence Professionals
for Sanity (VIPS)


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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Losing face shouldn't place any hardship on Tony Blair.
He has at least one to spare.

Come on "New" Labour. Flush :hurts: the nasty little turd.

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Great line! and oh, so true.
New movie, "The Three Faces of Tony."
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Remember the Gulf of Tonkin
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Phantoms come to life!
Thank you for the links.

These goof balls will try anything to get their way. They're like difficult children who are
spoiled to the point of entitlement.

This shows that Blair's little withdrawal statement was just a ruse to cover his real intentions,
as the article says, one last act of fealty to *, one last credit to earn him a place at the
table of whatever board he thinks will pay him for his services rendered. I think that the
British people will have something to say about Tony very soon. He is supposed to be gone in
April.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Remember the Maine.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. We all should remember that fake out...(see below)
Our great and glorious press tradition, which lives on today:

There is no war," Remington wrote to his boss. "Request to be recalled."

Remington's boss, William Randolph Hearst, sent a cable in reply: "Please remain. You furnish the pictures, I'll furnish the war." Hearst was true to his word. For weeks after the Maine disaster, the Journal devoted more than eight pages a day to the story. Not to be outdone, other papers followed Hearst's lead. Hundreds of editorials demanded that the Maine and American honor be avenged. Many Americans agreed. Soon a rallying cry could be heard everywhere -- in the papers, on the streets, and in the halls of Congress: "Remember the Maine! To hell with Spain."
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Hearst & Pulitzer, fathers of yellow journalism.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. One wonders if Pelosi, Waxman and other's trip to Syria on the Break
can somehow delay Bush/Blair madness. Whenever House and Senate go on recess I start to worry about the devilment that the Bushies will get into.

Who will stop them? When King Abdullah makes a strong statement about Americans being "occypiers" one would think that would have a chilling effect on Bushie ambitions...but then some think Abdullah was just playing Politics to keep his Sunni Population with him that he was doing something to support them.
Other reports said that Bandar Bush is on the outs with the Royal family who has broken with Bushies.

Who knows what to believe...but can anyone stop our bombing Iran? We don't seem to have been able to stop the Bush machine even though their whole criminal enterprise seems to be heading for the a train wreck. Even the Brits seem unable to stop Blair's complicity with Bush.

It must go higher internationally than we know. Because how can other countries stand by and watch this happen....yet seemingly do nothing. China could pull some of their Treasury Bonds and hurt our markets as a warning...but then that would only hurt their exports. I don't know what Russia could do and it's hard not to think that Bush is closer to Putin than it would seem with all their blustering about Russia returning to Cold War police state.

There's just so much we don't know. And, none of it is probably good or helpful to those of us who want out of the Middle East.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I think that there are internal controls operating.
The last build up to war was the * accusation that high level Iranian officials were supplying the
Iraqi's weapons. This was to be the rationale. Zbig Brzezinski (see below) came forward and called out the
neocons by saying that * would create an incident here or in Iraq to justify an attack on Iran.
That's pretty powerful stuff. About 10 days later, just before *'s press conference in mid February,
Gen. Peter Pace, head of the Joint Chiefs was hunted down in the South Seas by Voice of America. He
made a statement that totally undercut *'s contention about Iran:

Today, Pace, the top U.S. military official, was asked at a Pentagon news conference if he has proof that Iran's government is sponsoring these activities.

"I do not, sir," Pace said.

The Bush administration's statements about alleged Iranian involvement in Iraq come amid increasing tensions between Washington and Tehran over Iran's nuclear program.

Rumsfeld, standing beside Pace, said today it is difficult to ascertain whether the Iranian government is directly involved in sending military equipment and personnel to Iraq.


At the press conference, * could either contradict his top military official or suck it up and back
down on his claim (which even Rummy wouldn't back up). He did the "modified hang out" by agreeing
with Pace but proposing the Quads Force, an Iranian intelligence agency run by the mullahs. The
immediate claim for war was denied but the longer term proposition that Iranian higher ups were
the source of weapons was maintained. This fact surely was not lost on the forces of sanity.

This is enough evidence to say, at least, that there's a civil war in "management" and that there
are forces counter to * and the madmen/women.

It's disconcerting though, having to read the inferences and tea leaves. These people need to
grow up and do their damn jobs, which would certainly NOT include any wars. Amazing times.
---------------------------

Conspiracy Theory Goes Mainstream on the Road to Teheran

The National Security Advisor to former President Carter testified before the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on 1 Feb 2007. Dr.Zbigniew Brzezinski delivered a scathing assessment of the core mistakes made by the Bush administration in the Middle East. Just before describing what he termed the mythical historical narrative of the policy, he offered a scenario that the Bush administration might use as a convenient invitation to attack Iran.

War may result from Iraqi failures at governance attributed to Iranian interference followed “…by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran; culminating in a ‘defensive’ U.S. military action against Iran…” The “act” would lead to a “lonely America” into a conundrum of conflict across Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Further isolation and estrangement from the world would be the end game for the United States.

18 Fateful Words

a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran; culminating in
a "defensive" U.S. military action against Iran
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I, too, was heartened by the Pace & Brzezinski statements and have felt
Edited on Sat Mar-31-07 06:56 PM by KoKo01
House and Senate (mostly House) have tried to put a leash on the Bushies....yet it seems the smirking and posturing by Bush/Cheney/Repugs has not let up. It's as if they know something "we don't" or they are clueless in their "pedal to the metal/crashcart" philosophy.

The truth may be somewhere "inbetween" yet, they manage to blunder on with Dems trying to take over the steering wheel and only getting the chance to avert a CRASH and not be able to STEER.

The warnings about Iran Bombing are so dire from Sy Hersh and others that one wonders how the Bushies could "replay" the "drumbeat" into Iraq. But...they gotta away with EVERYTHING so far...so what's to make them think they can't do it again.

For us out here trying to put the pieces together in a rational arrangement ...it does seem to be very confusing sometimes. :-(
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well, if they start another war, impeachment is on.

The strange thing about this for those of us above 30;) is that there's no media guiding the public
opinion. I don't think the "leaders" understand this. We've seen very little coverage thats truly
anti war other than CNN's weekly feature, yet it's 70% anti war in the polls. One of my libertarian
friends, hard core free market, no regulations for anything type, has for some time insisted that
we just send * to The Hague. The 24% support figure represents a group that thinks Nixon was innocent,
Reagan was president, and the Sun revolves around the earth.

I'm not worried about the reaction, it would be the end of anyone involved (not Rummy was with Pace
and too denied the * claim). I'm worried about the real outcome in terms of our troops who have been
entirely abused and then our position in the world. And of course, then terrorism would be a threat
that's off the charts.

I'm liking that World Court idea more and more.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Pelosi has "been briefed" by the State Dept....
why suppose that her message will not be as "harsh" as any other "diplomacy" coming from our government?
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R.(nt)
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I say impeach him too! Here is an image that captures the * "vision thing."
WTF, these guys are nuts. Don't they ever have an original thought. This has been done.

I see no reason to go to war over British sailors. Doesn't Britania rule the waves; but not
the internet.

The British people should charge Blair with malfeasance!


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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. The voters are yawning!
one more word about Iran, yawn.

It's obvious little Tony is trying to start a war!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. bLIAR is one strange individual.

He has two stunning achievements. First, he took his country to war and endorsed the war here, where
his accent is taken by some people as a sign of intelligence. Second, he made a half hearted effort
on climate change which may well have devastating results to Great Britain (after dismissing the
problem) that was overshadowed by the controversy of the war.

I think it's fair to say that Blair has discredited Labour, failed his country, and ill served his
European allies.

Quite a set of accomplishments.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Very intelligent as far as pets go.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. But should we warn Tony. That might be the bad dog food;)


Now, these are real dogs! No poodles at Rancho Rank;)
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. That is one of the cutest little funny-faces i ever did see!
:-)

bLiar is on his own...:evilgrin:
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. You know what is interesting to me is that during the Clinton
Administration and during their time in the WH Blair seemed exact opposite of what he is today. It is as if Blair is a chameleon of sorts.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. He's looking for the big payday, I suspect.


Endless greed for power and recognition. He has to leave the PM spot with a very high level position.

It's all about the bling bling;)
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. The Labour party was taken over by 'closet Tories'
It is NOT the Labour Party any more
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Similar to what the DLC in America hopes to achieve with the Democratic Party.
I guess the idea to install warmongers at every level of government was fairly global.
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R n/t
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