Why I may not be able to eat at one of my favorite Chinese restaurants

[derby378]

Two words: Baby octopi.

Yes, I am a meat-eater. But I have my rules about what meat I choose to consume, and those rules are subject to further revision and expansion.

First rule is that I don't eat baby anything. I have been served lamb in the past, but I do not seek it out. I'm just glad that baby back ribs are called that because they're taken from the top of the rib cage instead of being taken from baby pigs.

Second rule is a bit more complicated. It has to do with level of perceived sentience, or at least organized social structure. Obviously, I do not eat dolphins, parrots, or primates of any kind, but it doesn't stop there. I love calamari, but I've seen too many Discovery Channel programs detailing the life and courtship of squid, so I will no longer eat squid or any other related cephalopod because of what our species has observed regarding their behavior.

My wife, when she was studying for her marine biology degree, had a baby octopus as a pet. She describes him as being very smart, ocassionally wrapping himself around her hand, and always playing hide-and-seek with her by hiding in a submerged flower pot and peeking at her with one eye through the hole in the bottom of the flower pot.

So this Chinese restuarant that I've been eating at on-and-off for over 15 years has introduced baby octopi to the menu. I can't do that. Nothing against the proprietors, I know they're good people, but I can't do that. You want to serve octopus or squid, at least serve the adult variety.

Your thoughts?

[doctor jazz]

1. Yeah. Dammit, I guess that rules out my beloved baby Lima Beans.

;-)

[uppityperson]

3. how about those bags of baby carrots!

think of the children!

[doctor jazz]

6. They are ripped out by the roots before they even become rabbit food!!11!1!

The horror!!1!1!

[grasswire]

17. welcome to DU, doctor

Are you a musician? (off topic, sorry OP)

[doctor jazz]

32. No, I have no talent...so I'm a musophile.

:D

[ddeclue]

11. How about all those poor suffering baby peas - ripped from their pods!

:rofl:

They couldn't even flee and never knew what hit them...

:P

[BlooInBloo]

2. I'm pretty sure you mean "sapience"...

Since "sentience" is pretty much just "being awake". And the entire blowhard rationale you give is silly.

[Berry Cool]

13. No sillier than the "I won't eat anything that has a mother or a face" rationale.

Why exercise prejudice against things that are not the product of sexual reproduction involving a sentient female? Why refuse to eat anything with a face but be perfectly OK with eating things that don't? Because then you don't have to see their faces looking at you, guilting you out while you eat them? Isn't it worse to eat a creature that has no face with which to reproach you? Poor thing!

Just saying. If you really want to, you can come up with an excuse for not eating one thing or another that will sound very silly to someone else.

As for me, I've eaten edible pansies. They all had faces. It was terrible of me, I know, but I did it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. People can eat or not eat whatever they want for whatever reasons they choose.

If the OP is uncomfortable eating cephalopods because they are relatively intelligent beings, then why should anyone criticize that rationale? It's as good a reason as any. Food is personal. People criticize people for being or not being vegetarians or vegans, and people have various reasons for being or not being vegetarians or vegans. It's their business. Personally, I get creeped out by eating pork because I know pigs are smarter than dogs, and I can't eat anything that's served to me with eyes, like trout. That's the way I feel and it's nobody's business but mine. So if somebody doesn't want to eat squid, why should anyone else care, or criticize his/her explanation?

[BlooInBloo]

24. I agree completely. No matter how silly their reason is, it's their right....

When they attempt to coerce me, however, invoking morality, then it's my turn to respond.

[derby378]

31. Agreed

I'm not trying to force my choice of food on anyone. It is a personal decision of mine.

[customerserviceguy]

47. I believe the OP

asked for opinions. It's not like someone mentioning in passing that they're a vegetarian, then having an omnivore make snarky comments about that.

[derby378]

16. Actually...

You might want to rethink that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

In the Benthamian concept of animal sentience, I do think that any animal killed for food should not be subjected to suffering. That's why I will never eat shark-fin soup unless the chef assures me that the shark was killed humanely instead of being definned and tossed back into the sea to limp and bleed and suffocate.

[BlooInBloo]

20. I don't, but thanks for the offer.

[Ohio Joe]

4. So...

If a restaurant serves something you don't eat, you don't go to the restaurant? Why not go but make it clear you do not like seeing it on the menu? Management of restaurants may well listen if you tell them what you do not like but by simply not going any more, they don't know why.

[Beaverhausen]

5. why is it OK to eat an adult animal/fish but not a baby?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[derby378]

25. I guess it's more of a personal moral choice

I think all animals should have a chance to reach adulthood. Having said that, I can step back and realize that this is not how things play out in nature, as fast-moving predators such as a cheetah often seize prey such as the young or injured who cannot keep pace with the pack. As a human, I can choose not to participate in such behavior.

I've had similar discussions with vegetarians in the past, and while they regard me with a certain bemused curiosity, we usually get along just fine. I just have to remember that when we do sit down to eat together, there are certain lines that should not be crossed.

[customerserviceguy]

50. The vast majority

of creatures in the wild become food for other creatures way before reaching reproductive age. It's part of that "survival of the fittest" thing that Darwin talked about. Only human beings try to save everyone to get to reproductive age, so they can pass on their shitty genes to the next generation.

[Canuckistanian]

53. I can understand that

Many species have a lousy chance of making it to adulthood. Octopi especially.

So I can see that you have a certain empathy for those that manage to survive the cruel world, only to be gobbled up by humans before they can even reproduce.

[theoldman]

7. My thoughts? Dumb

[truedelphi]

8. I am liking the tale about your wife's pet octopus.

The husband hates squid for dinner, so I never get any any more. Now I have A REAL REASON to avoid it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. Just modify what you order. I hear the egg noodles are delicious.

And chickens... baby or otherwise, aren't all that sentient.

[theophilus]

10. I tend to agree with you on this. I wouldn't patronize them, but I would

let them know my history and why I was boycotting. Maybe you can help stop the practice?

[madaboutharry]

12. How old is a Spring Chicken?

Are only Old Hens ok to eat then? I guess you don't eat LAMB CHOPS either because a lamb is a baby as opposed to a sheep. Are hamburgers only made from old cows and not young ones?

Do you know how old the shrimp are? Or how old the pig was that the pork in the egg roll was made from?

[1]

18. well, i only eat animals that die of natural causes...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

19. I thought you were gonna say ..........

that a whole bunch of neighborhood dogs and cats had gone missing.

Because, if that happened, yeah, I'd switch to the pizza place right away..........

[Captain Hilts]

21. Agreed. Not cool. And Octopi are VERY smart. nt

[BlueJazz]

22. :)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Kewdyj9eIjM/SaWg_GUdZFI/AAAAAAAABTQ/NpmHm9LFEYA/s400/octopus+octopi.jpg

[Codeine]

23. That's just plain stupid.

Baby or adult makes no difference to the creature being killed.

As to sapience/sentience/smarts I can guaran-damn-tee you that a single pig could put all of squid-dom to shame. Why is the intellect of a squid less significant than the (much greater) intellect of a pig?

Seriously -- animals are animals. Making arbitrary lines about which ones are food is just absurd; either it's wrong to kill animals on an industrial scale for for food or it's not. Simple.

[XOKCowboy]

30. I figured you'd be on this thread...

and once again I'm in total agreement with you. Well put as usual.

[Codeine]

45. I'm nothing if not predictable.

:hi:

[Cirque du So-What]

26. This is definitely an issue of conscience

I gave up veal a long time ago, but it had everything to do with abhorrence of the cruel conditions under which the young animals were raised; 'eating a baby' didn't factor into my decision.

As for suckling pig, I couldn't stomach the gelatinous texture of the meat (although the cracklings were exceedingly tasty). The thought of some heartbroken sow wasn't a sufficient deterrent to keep me from the table.

I applaud your decision to heed your own conscience on this issue, but by the same token I stand foursquare against any effort to deter others to follow their palates wherever they may lead. I fail to see how the relative 'youth' of the animal in question becomes an 'edibility test.' Of far more importance to me *personally* is whether the animal was raised humanely or whether its species is endangered. To each his/her own!

[notesdev]

27. The decisive point

how do they taste?

[jmm]

28. This reminds me of a few conversations I've had with my

little sister regarding eating meat. I'm an omnivore and respect most dietary choices others make but it was funny listening to her when she was 5 and 6 talk about how she can't eat cute animals. When I brought up films like "Babe" and "Chicken Run" those were different since they tasted good.

Not eating something because it's a baby strikes me as the same type of logic. If you don't want to eat something because of health, ethics, etc. that's one thing but because it's a baby? A baby isn't ok but letting it get older and more intelligent is?

[moez]

29. Hell....

I'd eat you if you came served in a nice bernaise sauce and the right wine....

[derby378]

35. There's that Douglas Adams bit about the Restaurant at the End of the Universe

"I'll just nip off and shoot myself. Don't worry, sir, I'll be very humane."

[XOKCowboy]

37. Best reply yet!

Bravo!

[Synicus Maximus]

44. Didn't someone say "I had his liver with fava beans and a nice

Chianti?"

[Yunomi]

33. Yeah, I pretty much agree

with you. A whole lot of friends and family won't eat out with me anymore because I'm so...well, 'picky' is what they say, but I have good reasons for all my 'pickiness'. Cephalopods are some of my favorite creatures (think Cthulhu) and I simply cannot eat them anymore. I do eat meat on occasion, and have been known to make fun of vegans (mostly because they give me a hard time). Eating is such a personal, and now political act, it's hard to justify yourself to anyone who doesn't share your food beliefs.

[Kahuna]

34. I suppose you don't eat eggs then.

:eyes:

[derby378]

40. I eat unfertilized eggs - no conflict there (n/t)

[yewberry]

36. Go with what works for you

and don't let other people tell you what is right or wrong for you.

Your decisions are your own, and if other people think you're stupid for coming to conclusions other than their own, fuck 'em.

[Gormy Cuss]

38. I think you have a very clear idea of where you draw the line on eating critter flesh

and that's a choice we all are able to make. Doesn't matter if it makes sense to anyone else.
I draw the line in a different place than you but I respect your boundary as much as anyone else's and I expect that you would offer me the same courtesy.

[Systematic Chaos]

39. I really do respect your decision, but think you should reconsider.

If you like this local business and have been supporting them, I would not consider this a major enough infraction to stop doing so... but that's just me. It's just that, at this time in our economy, I think that supporting local businesses is of utmost importance and I always do so when I can. And if there's a place I like then I will try and overlook minor mistakes in quality and service, but I wouldn't forgive major ones. I personally would call this squid thing minor in the grand scheme, but if you evaluate it differently I hope you'll be able to find another local establishment which will make you just as happy.

[derby378]

42. I appreciate the great points you offered

:hi:

[elehhhhna]

41. I've played w/ a baby octopus and also spent time with caribbean

squid. Amazing. Wouldn't eat either now.

On the other hand, I love cows, and eat beef.

[burning rain]

43. I think it's pretty silly to eat the adults and not the children.

Eating both or neither makes sense to me; I see making an age-based distinction as sentimentalism. But if that floats your boat...

[bobshin]

46. If you eat at a chinese restaurant, why are you so picky?

A chinese restaurant that has edible food is extremely rare. Do you not eat cats/kittens? Are you sure?

[JVS]

48. I don't understand why you would avoid the restaurant because of one menu item.

[JVS]

49. I don't understand why you would avoid the restaurant because of one menu item.

[flvegan]

51. I appreciate that you at least give some consideration to the food on your plate.

That you've drawn a line somewhere is a good thing.

[rucky]

52. They're delicious.

I like the way they prepare them in Mexican mariscos restraunts the best. Koreans put a nice garlicky chili sauce on them. It's one of the few meals I really crave, and can't get in Ohio.

[customerserviceguy]

54. Being picky comes from having choices

I remember back in 2000, when there was some soy milk left in the refrigerator from the young lady who used to cut our grass (she liked it after mowing the lawn, the way I enjoyed a beer!) and having our brand new Ukranian exchange student discover the carton and ask questions. My ex and I really did try to explain to her the idea of not eating something over ethical principles, but we just really couldn't make much of a case for it.

[mainer]

55. But babies taste the best!

They're the tenderest. Of any species, animal or vegetable.

[NeedleCast]

56. Hypocrisy with boundaries

Cute, but kinda silly.

[Ilsa]

57. Is this the restaurant along I75 in Richardson?

They had great food when I lived there.

Dallas has plenty of great places to choose from. Discriminate between them at will. And tell them why.

[xchrom]

58. i do the same --

and cephlapods are on my list as well.