You have to admit the video of the British Marine was in stark contrast to the Abu Ghraib photos

[NNN0LHI]

Cant deny that. We are never going to live the Abu Ghraib stink down. Not as long as we live.

Don

[Ezlivin]

1. You don't get a second chance to make a good first impression

You'd think that with all the damned MBAs running this country they'd remember Business 101.

I suspect that they believe they can just "PR" their way out of this mess.

[sharp_stick]

2. The Iranians aren't dumb enough to photograph

their torture sessions.

I don't think the Iranians would hesitate to torture the shit out of each and every one of those sailors publically but only if they thought it would get them what they want.

[kaal]

5. Nonsense, please give evidence...

... that the Iranians torture?

They execute, but so do we....

[mudesi]

6. Exactly

I wonder why Westerners in general automatically assume Iran tortures its prisoners. The only evidence I have seen is public officials saying that it is so. Given the recent credibility of the government, it's hard to not be skeptical.

[sharp_stick]

10. It's not hard to find pictorial evidence with Google n/t

[JuniperLea]

18. Nor in written form...

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/06/07/iran8774.htm

[sharp_stick]

22. Sorry, I think I duped your post

HRW is one of the best sources for anybody looking for evidence of abuse around the world, they do some great work.

[JuniperLea]

24. No prob

Yes, they do good work and they keep great records and they tell all. God bless them!

[Spazito]

28. I agree, they do good work....

United States


http://www.hrw.org/wr2k3/us.html



It's a darn good thing the US is SO MUCH better, isn't it! :sarcasm: in case it's needed.

[LSK]

19. then do it

[sharp_stick]

21. Look Down, way down under title "evidence attached" also

You can also click on:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-irn/index

or here:

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=iran

I think both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are pretty good and unbiased sources for information on torture and abuse around the world not just the Middle East.

[sharp_stick]

8. Evidence Attached (explicit)

That's if I figured out how to attach pictures.

I suppose you could call this an "execution" but I call it torture, people are not dropped as in a traditional hanging. They are lifted off the ground with the rope around their neck by the cranes you see and left in the air for one or more hours as a spectacle. What they don't show you is what happens in the prisons and by all accounts it makes the hangings a relief.

The 2 teenagers about to die in the second picture were "executed" for being gay with each other by the way

[rockymountaindem]

13. B-b-b-but, its the *west* that has *all* the problems

:sarcasm:

[JuniperLea]

9. They have been known to

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/06/07/iran8774.htm

And with the US torturing, it gives everyone else carte blanche... we have a history of being looked up to as the standard of good behavior remember.

[JuniperLea]

25. Well, seems you are inundated with evidence

No comment?

[CJCRANE]

3. The Iranian leadership

is obviously getting a kick out of making the British sailors apologize on camera and dressing the female sailor in a headscarf.

BUT that is a lot less disturbing than the psychopathology of sexual humiliation of arabs that the Gitmo and Abu Ghraib policies descended into.

[Solo_in_MD]

4. Given the different objectives, it is to be expected

[progdonkey]

7. well, one's PR, the other was never meant to be released...

You can't compare the footage from Iran with the Abu Ghraib photos. If there were photos taken of Iranian torture at a prison in Tehran, and it still wasn't as bad as at Abu Ghraib, you'd have a point, but you can't compare something that someone wants to get out and something that someone doesn't want to get out.

If the US were going to have footage of prisoners at Abu Ghraib (in an alternate universe where the torture photos never came out), you'd see well-fed, well-treated prisoners, just like the Iranians are presenting the Brits.

[Bluebear]

11. Point being, whatever was "meant" to be released doesn't matter

Prisoner footage vs prisoner footage is all a casual observer might see.

[stirlingsliver]

12. I Noticed That Right Away,

My first though on seeing how well-cared for and well-fed the British sailors looked was, "My God, they sure aren't being held by the Americans in Abu Ghraib"

My next thought was how much better their surroundings looked than the "enemy combatants" Bush is holding in Guantanamo.

[rockymountaindem]

14. Those are just for propaganda

don't be taken in.

[Forkboy]

16. Don't have to be taken in to recognize the value they have as propaganda.

:shrug:

[rockymountaindem]

20. No

but that's not what the post sounded like. Besides, they have no value if we all recognize what they're for.

[Forkboy]

23. The west isn't the intended audience

Not too mention the fact that even if we were I doubt that half us would get the message anyways. :)

[Forkboy]

15. Exactly what hit me too.

This has been a major PR win for the Iranians.We're not the audience they're doing this for.

Our hypocrisy on human rights has just been brought front and center once again.

Disclaimer - None of this means I think Iran = great and the US = bad.Save that kneejerk response for others please.

edit to add that my disclaimer wasn't directed to you stirlingsliver.

[orwell]

17. The Iranians need...

...to release the prisoners. They have gotten all the PR value they needed.

I suspect that there is some confusion at the top due to health issues with the Grand Ayatollah.

This will escalate. Hopefully, a third party (Russia) can negotiate a settlement.

[global1]

26. Brit Hostages Are Insurance To The Iranians That *Co Won't Attack.....

them as the Russians predict - if they have hostages strategically placed around the country at those locations that are said to be targets.

[Rage for Order]

27. That's laughable

Sorry, I'm not laughing at you, but at the idea that bush and his crew regard those 15 British sailors as anything more than expendable. They've proven their disregard for the value of human life time and again. If Iran thinks that keeping 15 British sailors in strategic locations would prevent bush from dropping bombs on them they really haven't been paying attention for the last 6 years.