Been here over 4 years, 20k posts. My thoughts on DU

[The Straight Story]

That U in DU used to mean something. Mainstream politicians who were against progressive ideals were not our friends. We defended and stood for ideals over politics.

From the wars to gay rights, from freedom of choice in abortion to how to live your own life. From health care for all to the rights of people we may not agree with. A big tent of smokers, gun folks, gays, transgenders, moderate dems, leftist dems, etc and so on.

We kicked bush's ass for everything under the sun. Even if we could not change him and his regime we found comfort here in siding with one another against his crap.

DU was a place for like minded folks to come together and has continually been a place for people to debate ideals.

This time here has for me been wild - my mom passed on, my X wife, mom's best friend, I went from not knowing where my kids were to seeing two of them - and now one is in the army and one is going to boot camp in June. I have shared my life and the love of my wife, her illness and the death of our dreams over it, to her leaving me and finding myself suddenly alone and terribly sad.

Time after time Du has been a place for me to sound off, my own personal therapy if you will. A place to let out the things that have plagued me in life, a place to celebrate the things I enjoyed.

I still see Du as that special place where people can come together and connect on many levels. From political to personal. But I also sense a change here, one that I am not sure I fully like or agree with. But that might just be me.

Imperfect as I am I still hold some principles that I felt that we as dems also held, but now I find myself wondering if we actually believe them and care about them.

1. Freedom of choice. We believe in people having choice, and freedom - unless it is something we don't personally like. I don't smoke pot, but think that folks that do should be free to do so. I rarely go to a bar, but when I do I think the people that work there, the owner of the bar, and the people choosing to be there have the right to smoke there. All parties have a choice. You also have a choice to have a smoke free place, to offer only domestic beers, etc.
I don't own a gun. I have never bought one. I have owned one but it was work related. I am not worried about you making the choice to own one and buying all the ammo you want. As long as you don't use it against me it is not my business. For all I know the people at work, in the bar, at the local fast food joint, etc, may be carrying one. I don't care. It does not worry me.
I don't see YOU as my enemy. I am not afraid of you, I don't lose sleep worrying that someone is out to get me (whether it be a 'muslim' wanting to fly a plane into my workplace or some person with a gun showing up to work and killing me). The war on terror or the war on people with a weapon - I won't let fear guide my life nor will I let it be the guiding principle when it comes to my freedoms.

2. Not caving in to the whole 'keep our powder dry' crap. Push gay rights back so we can win, then we win and push things back so we can keep power. We won the congress, then the white house, and yet some are still worried about how what we may push for may affect middle of the road voters.
Either you stand for something or you don't. If you are one of those people who bemoans how our elected people are liars then let me tell you - they do so because we enable them. Don't have an agenda because it might alienate some folks, so lie to them and then when you get power implement your ideals.
Stand for something - even if people hate you for it. I want gays to be able to marry, people to be able to smoke in bars, folks to be able to own guns, women to have control over their own bodies. you get the idea. I stand for choice, freedom of association, and using our resources for the betterment of all of us.

3. We are a big tent. You may not breastfeed, you might not homeschool, you might be straight, gay, transgendered, you might even be here in the US without the proper paperwork, maybe you see our history from a different viewpoint than I do. You might be an atheist.
I welcome you, I want you to have the freedom to be you, to associate with others like yourself, I want you to be free to criticize people you don't see eye to eye with (I am a Christian, you may think I am crazy for that), etc and so on.

What I don't welcome is people wanting to limit choices.

Live your life the way you want, and I will mine - and others will theirs.

People on DU who want to take away choice worry me. Aren't we the party of choice? Aren't we the party of freedom? We rail against those RW fundies who want us to live our lives the way they think is best, but more and more I see people here wanting us to live our lives based on their ideals.

I will keep fighting against fundies who want me to live my life according to their beliefs.

Celebrate our diversity. And don't let fear of others dictate to you how we should all live.

[rwheeler31]

1. Thanks

Tough times we get a little hinky.

[roguevalley]

6. what he said. good OP all around.

[billyoc]

2. Remember, the most radical revolutionary is a staunch conservative the day after the revolution.

You ain't seen SHIT yet...

[readmoreoften]

5. Well, yes, but that's because the day after the revolution what you're "conserving"

is revolutionary ideals against US-backed, bank-funded, right-wing military death squads? I'm very conservative about the few rights I've gained as a lesbian. I don't want to be able to be thrown in jail for sodomy. The positions don't change, only the meaning of "conservative" and "liberal" change after a revolution.

No radical revolutionary becomes a pro-life, free-market advocate the day after the revolution.

[ChazII]

3. Well said.

Sometimes I feel I am losing my freedome to choose.

[Jack Sprat]

4. You make good sense. nt

[readmoreoften]

7. Very nice post.

I don't mind people hear being in love with Obama and uncritical of his policies. I don't hate on people for posting pictures of how cute his kids are and so on. But don't tell me to shut up when I criticize him for bombing Pakistan or triangulating. It's really not that hard. If you agree with him on an issue, I'm all for it. But give me a REASON other than "I believe in him, I love him, etc." That shuts down any kind of dialogue because, well, what the hell is anyone supposed to say to that? It's just a backwards way of shutting people up.

I support anyone's right to live their life creatively and fully.

[Hekate]

8. That's a good credo, TSS. And anyhow, it's nice to see you again...

:hi:

Hekate

[EFerrari]

9. Sing it.

:)

[20score]

10. A huge K&R!

[Jeep789]

11. Live and let live

A great motto to live by.

[TahitiNut]

12. Yup. Except for smokers, fatties, gun nuts, and SUV drivers because, of course, "progressive" means

... "only what I'd approve of."

:evilgrin:

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Don't forget public school teachers

and Code Pink.

[TahitiNut]

43. Yup. And police and military servicemen, too.

Evul, I tell ya! Evul. :crazy:

[cobalt1999]

53. Oh, and meateaters too.

Surge of the earth

[Dinger]

77. Yeah, The "Evil" Public School Teachers

The greedy punks:sarcasm:

[JDPriestly]

13. Great post. Vive la difference. Thank you DUers for not always

agreeing -- with me or with each other.

[JohnnyLib2]

14. K & R, fervently.

:thumbsup:

[Old School Liberal]

15. Hear hear

It is for sentiments such as these that I count myself a Democrat--NOT the sort of people who would self-righteously take away my rights for my own good. You've boosted my spirits today, sir.

[LooseWilly]

16. Cheers.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Jamastiene]

17. K&R

Thank you for this OP. :thumbsup:

[Enthusiast]

18. K&R! Well said! nt

[Echo In Light]

19. Thing is, those who want to take away choice, when called on it, will of course deny it, spin, and..

...attack the "loony left" in some way, shape or carefully worded form.

[rosesaylavee]

20. One thing that has been a constant on DU

are the freeper/rw disruptors (paid and unpaid) as well as those who feel that because they are anonymous they can be as nasty as they want to those they disagree with - no holds barred. A lot of both groups get the cookie but not before they leave behind a trail of nastiness.

Many still come here for their news and feeling of community - they just may not want to extend the energy at times to fight with the nasties and prefer to lurk rather than post.

I am glad you are still here and posting. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. News still draws me

Community not so much.

[rosesaylavee]

27. I am sorry to read what you posted below...

But glad you are still here as well as you are one poster here I do like to read... when I am here too. :)

DU has never been the same place to me for more than a three month span... about the time an issue or problem plays out. I started not coming during the primary as I just couldn't handle the arguments on either side. (Just me, not DU.) :) And now I come out of habit, news and there are some posters I just miss reading. Give it a month or two, you may change your mind.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. Thank you

I am not going anywhere, just doing more lurking than posting :hi:

[Echo In Light]

24. Excellent point on not bothering to extend the energy to fight the belligerent ones

I used to. Yrs ago. Over time, however, one has the realization that volleying contrasting views back and forth online isn't exactly accomplishing anything worthwhile ... especially considering how it can take time to construct a comprehensive response regarding complex topics that can hardly be touched upon w/o wading into numerous parallel problems. And for what exactly? It's usually very circular, and would guess that people's minds aren't actually changed by any substantial measure within this process.

So it becomes an exercise in ego play, semantics, oneupmanship, snobbery, and opposing ideological/intellectual/spiritual positions and energies that, due to a host of psychological, emotional and sociological variables, finds scarce common ground within the internet forum medium.

[rosesaylavee]

28. In dealing with belligerent ones

I think I have learned a lot from H2O Man. His way of dealing with an over the top nasty is very succinct and he doesn't appear to spend a lot of time trying to convince someone when he thinks they are wrong. His short reply answers crack me up. Best one to date: Oh my. :P

[Echo In Light]

33. Minimum interaction w/such types is recommended. Imagine having such a confrontation in real life...

...that sort of thing leads to violence, and quickly. As in, I've never experienced someone I'm having a discussion with - be it in the street, or in a bar, or at a family get together, or in a parking lot, in line at a grocery store, etc - take on the snide, hateful tone with me that one regularly encounters here. And it's not merely a tone of disagreement, it's one dripping with contempt...more so, I'd guess, toward what the person represents to the hater than the topic at hand. The topic often ends up merely serving as the vehicle for the hater to attack the ones they deem less than themselves...it has nothing to do with the objective issue.

The only time I've encountered such people/attitudes were times when actual violence did occur, or easily could have. I played drums in heavy metal bar bands for several yrs, and even among a bunch of crazies and drunks I rarely encountered that type of attitude ...well, except for when "grunge" became mainstream, and the "mosh pit" began attracting violent, drunk jocks to show up in groups and fuck everything up by starting fights and getting the cops called.

But really, I can't imagine, say, standing in a check-out lane, and striking up a political/ideological conversation with some stranger (which, yes, I occasionally do) and have them say to my face some of the things that I read online. People who do that likely have a major deficiency that results in their spouting off against others in what they perceive to be a consequence free environment.

[malaise]

21. Very well said

Underground has meaning. I have never accepted 'group think'.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. This place has definitely changed

I start threads on topics that were once considered hot and they get maybe two replies. I make replies in threads and get attacked. It's happened over and over in the few times I have posted in just the last week or so.

I am still reeling over the teacher attacks from the merit pay threads. And before that the Code Pink threads and the Cindy Sheehan threads. It seems like the stories I am interested in no longer carry much weight here. And the things I value are not shared by the majority here.

I have gotten to the point where I ma posting more and more on local blogs and just reading a few headlines here at DU. I see a hot thread and it is either people googooing over the president (which is fine but that seems to be on overdrive here) or fighting over a story on bullying.

You are definitely right - the U in DU seems lost these days.

Thanks for the great OP. You have always been one of my favorite DUers. And there are fewer and fewer of those these days :)

[Echo In Light]

26. Interesting. I've posted here sporadically over the yrs...

And while I'll usually make quick forum friends w/other online forums I've frequented, I've NEVER made any 'familiar faces' here at DU, but certainly have encountered plenty of haters.

Like you say, the things you're interested in and/or value seem to either be off the radar for the majority ...or worse, are topics/questions that only provoke inordinate hostility from people that I'm guessing probably don't go around confronting others in real life in the same way they do in an anonymous medium - which to me speaks volumes about a person's integrity, where their heart/head is at, where they're coming from, etc.

But if you're here, and interacting, it becomes difficult not to respond in kind to that type of negative energy, so...

[hisownpetard]

39. That's so true! I hardly post anything anymore and it seems that most of the DUers I've always

admired and sought out are not posting much, if at all.

And another thing: it used to be that you could get a good volley going, a good give-and-take
discussion of whatever the issue was in the thread. Now, it's rare to even get a reply.
I'm not sure why that is, but it's disheartening. There's very little incentive these days
to post anything at all.

What do you think?

[emmadoggy]

54. I agree with this...

"most of the DUers I've always admired and sought out are not posting much, if at all."

I haven't been here as long as the "old-timers" although I lurked for a number of months before signing up - but there were so many great DUers who had a large everyday presence here that I was really impressed by. I didn't always agree with all of them, but they were knowledgable and well-spoken and had a lot to offer. The NEWS that was posted seemed much more.....I don't know, relevant...important...ummm, investigative?? I just remember coming here and thinking, "Whoa!! I had no idea about this!" or "Wow! I haven't seen anything about this on the news!" Maybe it's just because I'm here on a daily basis now that the news posted here doesn't seem as deep, dark and earth-shattering. I don't know.

But I am missing some of the long-time DUers. I won't name names because the list would be very long. Some of them are still here but much less involved, it seems. Some I haven't seen in a while or quite a while. I'm sure none of them would know me (I haven't always posted much), but I know them and valued their knowledge and opinions. I miss some of the spirited and intellectual debates - which is what they were - as opposed to the nasty, vitriolic, flame-fests that seem to happen so much these days. Not that flame-fests didn't happen occasionally, but now it seems the norm. There just seemed to be a higher level of discourse. And there was a more pervasive and general sense of good-will.

When I first started coming here, the membership was around 70-80,000. Now we are what? About 130-140,000? I suppose that has made a pretty big impact on the overall tone here and the feeling of kinship and community.

[HughMoran]

25. I agree with what you've said here

I hope DUers aren't trying to dictate which issues are worth fighting for.

[cobalt1999]

29. "Live your life the way you want, and I will mine "

:thumbsup:

There are hundreds of life choices we all make, however, some here feel the need to push a few of their choices onto others. I say fuck 'em.

[blm]

30. KandR for the real DU.

.

[harmonicon]

31. I like you, sir

I always have, and I agree with you completely on this. I read this board for years before registering, and lately I've gone back to more reading and less posting. I just ignore all of the political forums now - I can't be bothered.

Part of why I post less here now is that my life is now very good, and very busy. However, like you, this place has benefitted me in hard times, and I'm thankful for that - I hope you're feeling better now as well.

[sellitman]

32. Peoples rights and freedom are a two way street.

When I have to stay away from a restaurant because a smoker rights are diminished then I say bullcrap. Why is his right to kill himself more important than mine? I am also not with you on the gun rights issue but that would take up much more of my time then I am willing to devote. The rest looked good. Good rant.

[hfojvt]

34. So you want to limit choices?

Clearly you don't want people here to have the option of wanting to limit choices.

1. Freedom of choice is not my #1 ideal, and is probably not yours either. Some people want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused. Sweet dreams are made of these, but to others they are a nightmare.

2. some of us do want to win elections

3. you sorta contradict yourself, because when people criticize the choices of other people, they are telling other people how they should live their lives. Also, as it happens I am a straight male WASP, and as such, a representative of pure evil.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. To me it's not so much the criticism but how it is given

And the broad brush statements.

I wouldn't want to spend so much time here if we all agreed all the time. But when I am called a child abuser just because I teach in a public school, I think it's fair to say that's a bit over the top. LOL

[Echo In Light]

47. Yep. It's one thing to disagree, it's quite another when ....

...the overarching thrust of one's point is grounded in belligerent personal attacks and name-calling. And when those types get called on it they of course have their oft used defenses and denials couched within language that makes the one who called them out appear to be the bad guy.

Funny thing is, when I read such an exchange in a thread, the haters involved are always so transparent that it makes me wonder who they honestly think sides with them? To be sure, some unfortunately do (when something is said/written in a authoritative, belligerent manner it tends to attract a certain % regardless of its lack of truth or basic civility) ...but overall it's usually pretty obvious that the hater cares more about the personal attack than the topic at hand - which is exactly why the haters will so often insist that they're the "objective" ones, while those in disagreement are irrational. Right-wingers tend to be highly projective.

[hfojvt]

49. well when we grew up and went to school

there were certain teachers who would hurt the children any way they could. By pouring their derision upon anything we did ... :P

The OP is not so much about personal attacks as it is saying that those who are not libertarian - who, say, want to prohibit smoking in bars, or public buildings, or want to get guns off the streets, are either not proper DUers or not proper liberals.

It sorta reminds me of the old days, not that it's completely changed, but when DU was smaller, it seemed to be more concerned with ideological purity, with ensuring that everyone who posted on DU toed a certain line. Those who deviated from the line were supposed to get the pizza that they so obviously deserved.

Personal attacks used to be the norm when I was a newbie I kept a collection of them to see if I had a consistent group of enemies. Lately I am noticing a pattern of harsh attacks from a person I also noticed attacking you. Some of that has always been true too, but now I think there is a much higher poster/mod ratio too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. Interesting

I remember the great teachers and ignore the bad ones. I was lucky too. 99% of my teachers were wonderful. But even so, I think it is ridiculous to assume all teachers are bad or mean to kids just because my 4th grade teacher was a bitch. My MIL had a horrid doctor as she lay dying in the hospital but I would never blame him for her death or even assume all doctors are bad. And I wouldn't attack a doctor here on DU because of that one bad experience.

I admire what the mods here do but there never seems to be enough of them. And many of the posts that are think are the worst are within the rules so they can't be deleted.

[hfojvt]

69. actually I was only quoting Pink Floyd

you must know the song "we don't need no education. We don't need no thought control. No dark sarcasm in the classroom. Hey! Teacher! Leave those kids alone!" My teachers were mostly okay. I don't know if I would call any of them terrible, not even the one who started a fight in study hall with a 9th grader. I am not sure how many I would call wonderful either though. Maybe B's and C's if I got to grade them.

[Reterr]

36. I don't quite agree with your point #1

Or at least think it can be misinterpreted in ways that as a lifelong Dem, long-time DUer and lefty etc. do not really fit into my views of lefty principles.
Sure we believe in freedom of choice as a party I hope, but some of that stuff could be interpreted as precisely the kind of libertarian bullshit that scares me about the RW.

I think for instance environmental protection, deference to science on environmental issues etc., can end up making restricting some amount of "choice", but then I am ok with that. I don't think of "choice" sans any sort of guiding principles as the core of the left :shrug:. I think that is the core of the libertarians. I don't think that regulations, health codes etc. drive a society to fascsism and I don't at all undertand conflating things like gun control with say banning abortion.

I think it is important to distinguish between lefty principles and libertarian principles.

[proReality]

37. K&R n/t

[leeroysphitz]

38. The DU is not a "place". It is not a "community" , "fellowship" or "congregation" The DU is an

INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD. It may seem to, on some level, fit the definitions of these things but it is really only a chat room. There are many members of this message board who may well be much happier with their DU experience if they were to keep this simple fact in mind.

[hisownpetard]

42. Of course it is not a physical "place," but you know what he means, don't you?

[leeroysphitz]

45. I know exactly what he means and I disagree. I just think investing the kinds of feelings

reserved for a fellowship of IRL people into an internet chat room is silly and most likely hurtful to people in the long run.

The DU is a great message board, I've used it for years. I've found it informative and a useful way to gauge the opinions of a few narrow subsets of the American left and center left as well as to get an idea as to where I fit in along that spectrum but it is not a family or a community.

If you took the roughly 70,000 posters here and sat them all down in the Superdome or some place and gave each seating section a topic (GD, GDP LBN or god forbid THE LOUNGE etc...) so those sitting in thos sections could debate independantly from those in the other sections, set down a few debate rules for civilities sake, and then just let the whole thing go with nobody down on the stage to focus everybody's attention would you call that a community? Or chaos?

If you mistook a few thousand (mostly) well meaning anonymous strangers for a close knit community of friends could you get hurt?

[Seldona]

60. I have to disagree.

Once you get beyond the brash assholes hiding behind the web's supposed anonymity, the internet can be nearly as intimate a place as rl. Not to mention the opportunities to meet like-minded people you would otherwise never had interacted with.

During the 90's I worked for non-profit that was an online entity in it's entirety. Sure, we consulted with people and companies face to face at times. But the majority of the time we were able to work from home, and work together like we were in the next cubicle over from each other.

Perhaps it is something some people can connect with, while others cannot? While you seem to feel the internet a cold, sterile, place, I find that it accentuates life in ways nothing else can even compare with. Some of my closest friends I met online, and I have 'met' people I would never have without it.

When I had an internet cafe, the group of kids that gamed there nearly every Saturday made a friend online. He enjoyed our company in a GAME so much that he moved up here. My dearly departed father and step-mother all but adopted him.

Another former customer who hung out often just returned from a vacation inspired by his online gaming guild. I know, I know, we're geeks.

I have people I care about a great deal scattered all over the country as well. In some cases we have met up with each other.

I have even met up with local people that way. Another customer of mine met his wife online at our place. He proposed to her right at the counter a couple years later. Then asked me to be his best man.

If all you do is converse with people online, that can be a problem. Otherwise it can open up some of the greatest experiences one can have, at least in my experiences.

[Mari333]

59. I disagree.

when my husband was killed, DU came out in force. they helped me pay for the funeral. they were there for me from day one.
they are a community. and I will always be grateful to them , always.
when my stepson went to Iraq, they sent care packages to his unit. again, they are a community. and I love them for it.

[Richd506]

44. I agree

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

46. I still feel like this place never fully recovered from the acrimony of the primaries.

It's kind of recovered, but the echoes are still there.

[derby378]

48. I hope we run into each other someday

I owe you a beer after reading your post. :toast:

[LWolf]

50. Nice post. K & R. nt

[L0oniX]

51. K & R

[Chronotis2613]

52. Excellent!

I agree wholeheartedly with your post -- good advice for hard times. It is difficult to reconcile the bittersweetness of the victory last year: sweet that we won, bitter that there is so much to do and so little time in which to do it (one reason I think Obama is trying to push through as many reforms as he can: his popularity is still over 60% and Republicans know it).

Being "underground," we band together -- creating a psychological connection that refuses to break when no longer useful. (For example, certain Christians who still carry the notion that they are oppressed, though they are in the majority -- because they grew up with stories of oppression in ancient Rome. I will leave out whether or not such oppression happened, as I am not an historian and I don't want to get off topic. I use this merely as the freshest example to come to mind.)

Banding together is a good thing, particularly at election time. However, as your post reminds us, we need to remember what a large tent we are. As we encourage our fellows to celebrate the diversity of our country, so we need to celebrate the diversity of our party. Increasing diversity is also a good strategy for winning elections.

[dcindian]

55. Diversity is the best part of being a Dem.

I think we should enjoy the diverse opinions here and argue them from the point of knowledge not exclusivity. The republicans can tell us first hand what it is like when an extremist group push others who don't hold a single minded view out of the party.

[solara]

56. Thanks for posting this - You are reflecting many of my own feelings

I, too, used to post a lot more than I do now. Hostility, contempt and personal attacks have proliferated to such an extent that, honestly, I am afraid to post on DU. I have found that it is so much more difficult to stay out of a flame war when it is somehow ignited by your own post regardless of any good intentions.

I still enjoy reading much of what is posted here and most likely will continue to support DU. But I am saddened by the trend towards fear and anger and blame projection that I see developing on DU, because it is a reflection of the general trend I see developing in this country. I still believe in hope and in personal responsibility, but I cannot deny that the Bush cabal and its legion of minions in the media have poisoned us to the point that many of our ideals and visions lay near dying and unfortunately this includes common courtesy and respect. Rudeness and self righteousness are not new but under eight years of neo-con justification and application they have become near art forms and sadly, there are many who post on DU who still see such nastiness as necessary tools to defend their positions. It saddens me, too.

Thank you again for your words, I always look forward to reading your posts

:patriot:

[SurfingScientist]

57. K&R...

... store this somewhere permanent around here. This is a fantastic manifesto that should apply not only to DU, but to so much more.

Thank you, Straight Story. And all the best for your personal life!!!

PS try running for SCOTUS if you get around to it - we need you there!!! :)

[Occam Bandage]

58. "We are a big tent" does not really mesh with "mainstream politicians are not our friends."

[chimpyisstillsatan]

61. Twenty THOUSAND Posts?

Huzzah for the big tent etc., etc... Couldn't agree more, but maybe twenty thousand posts is something that warrants a bit of reflection in and of itself?

[The Straight Story]

67. When you are at home taking care of someone and watching your kid play

it beats watching stupid tv shows :) Not to mention I program all day so I tend to not want to use my PC for work stuff at home.

Averages out to 13 posts a day. Wonder how many times I have clicked search at google?

Yeah, maybe i will spend more time at the bar......

[emmadoggy]

74. I think you'll find there are many posters here

with post counts that high and higher. Most of them have been here a long time which explains why. Others just come in and make a flurry of quick "K&R" posts to many, many threads or other quick, short replies, spend a lot of time in the lounge etc. to get higher post counts. But there are MANY posters here with high post counts.

Many of them are the best DUers we have.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

84. People die, children grow up...

...and time is never returned. Take it from someone who has both cared for someone (in home hospice) and has helped raise his own kids: no blogging, however casual or infrequent, occurs in a vacuum.

I don't know where the line is, but 13 posts a day for four years seems to me to be worthy of serious consideration and reflection. It's a big number, and almost surely involves a serious time committment.

If "community building" is a goal at DU or any progressive blog, taking care of our own is part of the equation. I'd be concerned if a loved one were spending that much time and effort on a blog. Very concerned.

'nuff said by me.

[progressoid]

62. "But I also sense a change here,"

I don't mean to be flippant but change is good. God help us if we think we are so infallible that we can't or won't change.

Besides, we did vote for change right? :hug:

[Kajsa]

63. Excellent post, TSS!

I agree with you on all counts.

:kick: and R.

:)

[CANDO]

64. 20k posts in 4 years! Holy shit, it took me 7 years for my 1000th post.

eom

[rhett o rick]

65. I agree with most if not all you said. I don't find those that want to limit my choices much of a

threat. I ignore them, one way or another.

[SeattleGirl]

68. Thank you, TSS

:yourock:

:hug:

[annabanana]

70. DEAR tss. .

Some people, no matter what they write, don't really represent themselves well in print. You have always managed to communicate something of who you are. I consider you a friend, and I agree with you about the different tone here lately. I put it down to a combination of professional shit stirrers, and the adjustment that had to come with "our guy" in charge.

I still like it here (a lot) because of people like you.

[yy4me]

71. Well said, thank you for expressing yourself so well.

[lucretia54]

72. I like the last line especially....

because on message boards like DU, we can talk about how ignorant some Conservative jerk is, but we don't want to live in the kind of world where we go out and fight, or name names. Speak your mind here, be validated by others, and then go out into the world and live the life of peace and acceptance which we all strive to have.

[OwnedByFerrets]

73. Bravo TSS!!!! Thank you for such a well thought out and heart

felt post.

\

[TK421]

75. K&R....love your writings, btw

:thumbsup:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

76. Have I Told You Lately That I Love You SS?

Much love to ya brotha...

:hug:

[distantearlywarning]

78. Thanks for this post.

I'm this kind of DUer too. I too was worried we were a dying breed and I am heartened to see so many recs on this post!

[timtom]

79. May it truly be thus.

[omega minimo]

80. what's missing is one simple word:

respect

[winyanstaz]

81. I have to agree with your posts :)

Thanks for speaking up and speaking out. :)

[earcandle]

82. I am new here, but I second that emotion!

[juno jones]

83. Thanks Straight Story. You've said it well.

Limiting choices. I don't understand how a suppposed dem could get into that.

I really can't believe how many here would desire to play police for their own morality if given the chance.

In fact, I can't believe how shallow their morality is. I'm not really sure that pot and cig smokers, overweight people, etc etc are really the problem here. Perhaps we need a new ghetto forum for such posts or for posts which devolve into that kind of dicussion. There are several boards on the internet that have a forum where everything that devolves into such childishness gets dumped for the respondants to fight it out, keeping the main forums lean, clean and on target. Perhaps we need a 'thunderdome' ourselves for flinging poo at each other, or better yet, we should be addressing lifestyle issues in a postitive, non-judgemental manner perhaps gently educating thru links and references.

Celebrating diversity here! :grouphug:

[nc4bo]

85. Unfortunately, I'm too late to recommend your post. nt.