GM, Chrysler bankruptcy could hurt TCS the most (TATA)

[OhioChick]

Source: Economic Times India

1 Apr 2009, 0143 hrs IST, Deepshikha Monga & Pankaj Mishra, ET Bureau

NEW DELHI/BANGALORE: The grave financial crisis at US automobile companies General Motors (GM) and Chrysler has put at risk deals worth nearly $1 billion (Rs 5,000 crore) annually for Indian auto parts suppliers and some of the country’s top software firms.

Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), India’s largest software exporter, faces the biggest impact among IT companies, while vendors of auto components will be particularly affected if GM files for bankruptcy, analysts and executives from the two industries said.

On Sunday, the US government gave GM 60 days to come up with a new plan to cut debt and prevent bankruptcy. Chrysler has been ordered to finalise a partnership with Italian carmaker Fiat within 30 days.

A Delhi-based auto parts supplier to GM said there has already been some reduction in orders from the American firm. “We are worried and closely watching the developments in the US to gauge the impact. The decline in auto sales in the US has already hit the order books of Indian suppliers,” he said.


Read more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Auto/GM-Chrysler-bankruptcy-could-hurt-TCS-the-most/articleshow/4341951.cms

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Why are GM and Chrysler outsourcing auto parts and their IT dept.'s to India? It would be nice if "American companies" supported and employed American workers.

Ford is no different. They got burned by Satyam. (Indian IT Co.)

[ChromeFoundry]

1. Welcome to the Global Economy...

...ashes, ashes, we all fall down. bitches.

hummm, Tata writes software for GM? now I understand a lot more.

[quiller4]

2. Tata writes almost all automotive software in use worldwide. n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

3. I know Delphi still writes a lot of the component firmware

and that has some serious quality control issues!

[DainBramaged]

22. Do you have proof??

[Kalyan]

4. your stereotyping is funny at best ...

it is funny to see how you stereotype outsourcing. And to hear that product quality has gone down because of outsourcing to India is even more funny - because you refuse to see the truth.

and by the way, if you want "american companies" to support & employ only American workers, you should be ok to not having Indians buying american products. Is that what one is looking for?

[Sultana]

6. .

:eyes:

[MindPilot]

7. It is not stereotyping when it's true.

And it sounds like you are someone who seems to think that outsourcing is a good idea. Do you have some vested interest in seeing Americans lose their jobs to India?

[Kalyan]

13. my position

Is outsourcing good? YES. Companies should take advantage of global resources.
Should Americans lose jobs? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Companies should NOT EXPLOIT either global resources or american resources.

Also, let me clarify to you that outsourcing to India is a very small % over the american outsourcing to western world and china.

[MindPilot]

16. Since I will lose my job to Indian outsourcing in a couple months

My outsourcing rate is roughly 100%.

[DainBramaged]

21. I am so sorry.....

:cry: :hug:

[OhioChick]

27. I hear you....

Wee seem to be in the same shoes.

[Deja Q]

43. I wonder when the "high tech" positions will open up for Americans

The same stuff President Obama keeps saying can't be offshored for some reason... (or, rather, there is no evidence presented to support the belief it anything can't be offshored. Except for laying in plumbing pipes and putting up drywall, and drywall has been imported for years too... never mind the repercussions from using materials and goods from countries lacking rudimentary health and safety precautions.)

And a more generalized comment: Let's elevate the world and work together, properly. Not cherrypick and abuse and misuse. Race and region should have NOTHING to do with it. Especially if everyone is trying to pawn all these ideas as being "global". Because, right now, they aren't.

[Deja Q]

35. Regrettably, that exploitation is PRECISELY what IS going on.

[pampango]

15. All people who stereotype THINK they are expressing the truth.

Life, and people, are more complicated than simple-minded stereotypes will accommodate. That's why narrow-minded conservatives, not liberals who realize that people and countries are not stereotypes, find the black-and-white world of stereotypes are more comfortable place to live.

[DainBramaged]

11. Know what a Speed Pro piston is?

Since Federal-Mogul began using an Indian foundry to make their "aftermarket" replacement and performance pistons, the quality has gone to hell. From MANY friends I have who race or build engines, the pistons rarely match dimensions from one piston to the next, and expansion rates are horrendous. They used to be made here, but it appears that the people running the foundry and mill over there just plain suck. When FM finally realizes that the sales of their product have declined to the point where they can't save money by OUTSOURCING the manufacturing, MAYBE they'll bring the process back here. Oops, the foundry here closed down, so sad.

[Kalyan]

12. facts show something else

I find it funny that people always "know people or friends" who have had bad experience, never do i see first hand experience. On the other hand, i have numerous first hand experience of the below-average work quality from the western world - but i never stereotype the entire gamut for the faults of a few.

Here is a list of DEMING PRIZE winners from India. Deming Prize is recognized worldwide as the awards given to company that focuses on quality excellence.

1998: Sundaram-Clayton Limited, Brakes Division (component supplier)
2001: Sundaram Brake Linings (component supplier)
2002 - 3 companies: TVS Motor Company (2-wheeler OEM); Brakes India Ltd., Foundry Division; Mahindra and Mahindra Ltd., Farm Equipment Sector (OEM)
2003 - 2 companies: Rane Brake Linings, Sona Koyo Steering Systems
2004 - 3 companies: Indo Gulf Fertilisers, Lucas-TVS, SRF Ltd., Industrial Synthetics Business
2005 - 3 companies: Krishna Maruti, Rane Engine Valves, Rane TRW Steering Systems Ltd., Steering Gear Division

Link: http://www.juse.or.jp/e/deming/10_prizelist.html#02

[DainBramaged]

20. Ever measure a piston before putting rings on it, or measure the ring lands?

I have, and your Google search doesn't equate to practical experience. Keep your Indian awards. Bring the jobs back here and stop defending the Foreign interests. BTW, nice profile, you don't get any more of my consideration.

PS, have the Indians won any quality prizes here? Oh wait, I better ask my friends of friends (the one's who build engines for a living).

Tool.

[MindPilot]

30. You can not explain quality to someone who doesn't actually touch the parts

And that is the whole thing they hate about us -- we know when they are fucking us.

You can probably roll that piston around in you hand and just KNOW that it is not quite the right shape, the lands are a little rough, maybe the color is off a bit.

But no one will listen. That company won and AWARD, donchano!11!1

But put it in an engine and watch it punch a hole in the block. To everyone looking in it was just a defective part or the fault of the engine builder, but we KNOW the real problem and they don't want us making noise about it.

[DainBramaged]

32. I may take a picture of one a friend has saved

the top of the piston is pressed down so as to collapse the top ring land so that a ring will not fit in it, but is was BRAND NEW and passed their QC.

[Deja Q]

36. People thought "Dances with Wolves" was a great movie too. People think "Family Guy" is uber-witty.

Doesn't mean either of those is anywhere near being actually great.

Like office politics, perception and populism do more than anything else. Since society, if you want to call it that, relies on cost savings, cutting as many corners as possible and more is what is being applauded.

All I know is, BOTH SIDES in this argument are prone to stereotyping.

[ChromeFoundry]

25. I had new tires put on my car one year ago...

This included the replacement of the valve stems. Over the past month, both rear tires had slow leaks that required the tires to be filled - WEEKLY, and the fronts every other week. I went back to the tire dealer... All four valve stems were cracked so bad that they were leaking and ready to fall apart. These were the same valve stems that were made in China that were silently recalled about 8 months ago. The usage of them were so wide spread that no one can even determine who has them. There have been several deaths due to these tire valve failure. Guess what, the factory that made them here is no longer in operation. All the free-traders can tell the families that lost family members how wonderful offshoring is.

[DainBramaged]

29. It isn't a silent recall any longer, and it is a serious issue

There could be upwards of 50,000,000 of these defective valve stems in circulation. They didn't put enough anti-oxidation chemical in the rubber, hence the rapid deterioration. All to save a few cents per valve.


A defect on tires has links to China
Poisonous pet food. Lead paint on children's toys. The latest potentially defective Chinese import to hit American shores: tire-valve stems, the rubber shafts that allow motorists to fill their tires with air.

There are at least 36 million of the imported valve stems on tires on American roads. Any of them could cause dangerous tire failures this summer.

Already, a lawsuit has blamed a defective tire-valve stem for a crash that killed a Florida driver. One US importer issued a formal recall this month; another alerted the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), which has begun an investigation. Earlier this month, the federal agency issued an advisory to motorists to check their tires for wear but said nothing about valve stems.

Most of the valves in question, which are said to crack prematurely, appear to be on tires sold between September 2006 and June 2007.

The extent of the problem won't be known until NHTSA completes its investigation, says an agency spokesman. But some independent safety experts say motorists should be warned to inspect the tire-valve stems immediately.

"The company has issued a technical bulletin, but nobody seems to know about it," says Sean Kane, an auto-safety consultant with Safety Research & Strategies in Rehoboth, Mass., which issued its own public warning Thursday. "We need to know because the public is entering the high-risk summer season, and this is a real problem that potentially affects millions of vehicles."

Some 30 million suspect valve stems were manufactured over a five-month period in 2006 for Dill by Topseal, a subsidiary of Shanghai Baolong Automotive Corp., based in Shanghai, according to NHTSA's preliminary summary of its investigation. In May, Dill issued a technical bulletin to its customers: "We have received a number of parts showing surface cracks on the outside of the rubber near the rim hole.... Out of an abundance of caution, we are recommending that when customers return to your stores for regular service, you inspect the valve stems on vehicles who received valve stems during the period September 2006-June 2007."



http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0616/p02s01-usec.html


And if you try to visit Topseal's website, this warning pops up from Google and the site is blocked

Warning - visiting this web site may harm your computer!

What happened when Google visited this site?

Of the 22 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 16 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2009-03-28, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2009-03-28.
Malicious software includes 23 scripting exploit(s).

Malicious software is hosted on 1 domain(s), including daxia123.cn/.

This site was hosted on 1 network(s) including AS9803 (JINGXUN).

Has this site acted as an intermediary resulting in further distribution of malware?

Over the past 90 days, www.baolong.biz did not appear to function as an intermediary for the infection of any sites.

[OhioChick]

31. I think they may have some lawsuits coming if they haven't already

My son's friend died in a car accident...which was later found to be due to faulty valve stems.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4503271

But hell.....I guess if I complain about foreign help, I'm a racist, huh?

[DainBramaged]

33. I am so sorry for their loss, but here, it's an expense, move along nothing to see here.

:hug:

[Deja Q]

42. Speaking of stereotyping...

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-10878-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=305498&messageID=3045331

It works both ways, sorry.

[OhioChick]

45. Wow....Quite Bold and Speaks Volumes...

Stupid
Your obviously one of those stupid lazey Americans who can't add 2+2.

Move out of the way for us, we are smarter and work harder. Just because you r white you think you must own something.

We r much better than you , that is why we take your job. H-1B hep to move job to India where work is done. YOu cannot compeat so you must go away.


Job Role: IT Consultant
Location: banglor, India
Member since: 03/30/2009

Some decent responses follow...

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-10878-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=305498&messageID=3045331

Sounds a bit racist to me, wouldn't you agree?

[MindPilot]

46. In my experience, that is not an isolated attitude.

They are not over here "looking for better life". The fuckers hate Americans and feeling quite intellectually superior, they firmly believe they have a right to American jobs.


As one poster over at TR pointed out. "If I would work for two cents a day and a friggin' bowl of rice, I could have any job I wanted too."

[Kalyan]

5. throw out these companies from India ...

keeping with your motto - let's throw these companies from dealing in India for the Tata Nano Project (popularly called NANO car!)

1. FEV (Germany) - Diesel Engine
2. Bosch (Germany) - Fuel Injection System
3. Honeywell (US MNC) - Turbo system

Apart from these, i know that Delphi has won the instrumentation order. So, since we are all embarking on a journey of protectionism, let's cut off these folks from access to Indian market.

[DainBramaged]

8. Fuck 'em, bring the jobs back here.

[Kolesar]

9. I only drove 6000 miles in the last year

There's your future.

[MindPilot]

17. So? You still had to do that in a car.

And some auto workers at some factory someplace had to build it.

The car is built and sold; how exactly does how much you drive it affect DB's future?

[zogofzorkon]

10. what BrainDamaged said

and not just India

[OhioChick]

28. You got it!

As for all the protectionism shit....

India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Jobs/Expatriate_executives_making_way_for_local_hires/articleshow/4039529.cms

Other countries are doing this, as well. Taking care of their own FIRST.....as the U.S. should be.

[Deja Q]

44. While an exception to the rule was recently posted in GD, the rule still seems more the rule...

Worth repeating, thank you for re-posting.

See, other countries can engage in protectionism and nobody bats an eyelid. The moment anybody in the US even whispers "Let's protect some of our own" it's like somebody took Jesus and uses him as a punching bag and everybody says it's a cardinal sin to do.

[high density]

14. Offshoring IT is fine because IT workers aren't in unions

Union jobs are the only ones we should protect!

[Hannah Bell]

18. it workers didn't think they needed unions. they were smart & valuable, not like dumb autoworkers.

times change, the price of labor goes down, layoffs happen.

maybe you should have unionized when you had the market power.

too bad, you're competing with cheap labor now. glory days - so shortlived.

[high density]

19. Speaking of glory days, welcome to the club UAW members!

:)

[DainBramaged]

23. Is that intended as an insult, because I am taking it as such.

[Deja Q]

39. How about the management that uses every means to wrongfully increase pay?

They claim they deserve high wages because their decision can break the company.

When they do break the company, they walk away with a golden parachute, which lands them in paradise. $20 million for ruining a company, all the workers, parts distribution, et al (there is a massive domino effect in all this), is grossly obscene.

Ethics, morals, you name it - it's all out the door because cutting off corners is more profitable than paying good wages for good work done. Which goes from people... to parts. Where does GM and Ford and the others get their parts from? What if they were imported from another country and not manufactured, core up, in America? Hmmm, it's not as simple as people want to think... maybe we are a nation of slackjawed yokels after all...

And, yes, unions can be a problem. Some of us who want to do and be more are held back from advancing or moving laterally BECAUSE of union rules.

At the same time, without unions, we'd be slaving in factories for obscene hours without the ability to live semi-dignified human lives. They are, as a relative calls them, a "necessary evil".

And, yes, I am aware union suits have taken advantage of situations too.

[ContinentalOp]

34. But there aren't enough qualified people here, don't you know?

Our children aren't good enough at math and science so these companies are forced to hire people on H1Bs or outsource the jobs to India. :eyes:

[Deja Q]

41. Ah, another stereotype!!

(See, it's okay to stereotype if it's about the US. If it's about anyone else, that's baaaaaaaaaaaaad.)

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-10878-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=305498&messageID=3045331
(how's that for stereotyping?)

[Orsino]

24. TCS are effing parasites...

...and everything they touch turns to shit.

There are still some American company heads that haven't figured this out yet. These executives are corrupt fools.

[mopinko]

26. well the tata auto division will pick up

not that you see that many gm cars in india, but they are there.

but tata is introducing the worlds cheapest car, which will sell for about $2k.

[Deja Q]

37. But not in America. See, we have safety standards...

Maybe these other countries will add in standards too? Or aren't standards "profitable"?

Or should the US drop all its standards? Including the standards for education since we're apparently a country full of slackjawed yokels that think Paris is the epitome of Americana (if not humanity) and not a city in some European country...

Like tax breaks and other bizarroworld-worthy factors, this "global economy" is anything but "flat" like how the flatheads pretend to think it is.

Same cost of living, same standards, same everything. Otherwise the real abuse will continue, and likely worsen.

That isn't socialism either. Then again, all the little jingo words are given such broad and insane meanings that it doesn't matter anymore either.


Never mind that Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Subaru, et al, can't even begin to compete with a $2000 car... which I certainly would not want because, thanks to lack of regulations, Lord only knows how long it'd take before it would fall apart, explode, or sieze up during a critical moment.

[mopinko]

38. it quickly becomes a $4k car with options

that most of us would consider standard. and yeah, there won't be no airbags. safety is not something that is even thought of in india's transportation picture.

[Deja Q]

40. Yes, and the inequities of the so-called "global economy" would make them a monopoly...

That's why tariffs and other trade controls are needed. Especially if small businesses genuinely are appreciated and monopolies are genuinely bad.

Even given how badly Americans drive, they would buy the glorified golf cart... then whine and bleat about the economy continuing to go down.