Scientists Find 'Baffling' Link between Autism and Vinyl Flooring

[girl gone mad]

Scientists Find 'Baffling' Link between Autism and Vinyl Flooring
Swedish children who live in homes with vinyl floors are more likely to have autism, according to a new study, but what's behind the link is unclear

Children who live in homes with vinyl floors, which can emit chemicals called phthalates, are more likely to have autism, according to research by Swedish and U.S. scientists published Monday.

The study of Swedish children is among the first to find an apparent connection between an environmental chemical and autism.

The scientists were surprised by their finding, calling it "far from conclusive." Because their research was not designed to focus on autism, they recommend further study of larger numbers of children to see whether the link can be confirmed.

Bernard Weiss, a professor of environmental medicine at University of Rochester and a co-author of the study, said the connection between vinyl flooring and autism "turned up virtually by accident." He called it "intriguing and baffling at the same time."

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=link-between-autism-and-vinyl

Interesting, but, of course, correlation is not the same as causation.

[SoCalDem]

1. Links are everywhere to most of "what ails us"

but there are so damned many of them, that no "one thing" or causality can ever be made:(


I have already started advising my son.. He and his wife will probably the the only ones of our family to produce a grandchild, and probably only one, so they are already paying attention while they are house-hunting..

no carpeting..wood or tile flooring only.. natural woods only, and they plan to use organic paints & fabrics..

they are pretty much anti-plastic already, and favor organics & natural stuff..

[KittyWampus]

3. it's getting hard to find wood furniture anymore. Except for yardsales & thriftstores

[SoCalDem]

11. We have leather furniture.. and some bamboo & glass

and tile floors.. (not vinyl)

[muriel_volestrangler]

145. Leather is chock full of added chemicals, and always has been

Have you ever smelled a tannery?

There's a big compensation case going on in the UK at the moment for burns received from a particular chemical that one factory used:

Land of Leather sofa burn sufferers could miss out on compensation

Insurers reject hundreds of claims over chemical that irritates skin


More than 500 people who suffered burn injuries from "toxic sofas" could miss out on compensation because the furniture chain Land of Leather went bust before their claims were settled, a court heard today .

Almost 2,000 shoppers are in line for a total payout estimated at £10m from 14 high street stores including Argos after they sold leather furniture containing a potent chemical that irritates human skin. It is the largest group litigation order action over a consumer product in British legal history.

Dimethyl fumarate (DMF), an anti-mould agent used to protect leather, is toxic in tiny amounts and can cause serious blistering and bleeding of the skin. Some people have also suffered chest and eye complaints after sitting on the affected sofas and the chemical has been linked to a number of deaths.

Many symptoms were made worse because sufferers did not realise what was causing them and continued to sit on the Chinese-made sofas for months.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/mar/27/retail-insurance

[Manifestor_of_Light]

71. I had to get rid of a bunch of real wood furniture.

That I inherited from two generations of Depression-era packrats (mom and grandmom).

Most of it's mahogany. I couldn't get any money for it.

Pretty stupid of people to prefer new particle board that emits smelly nastomers (formaldehyde).

:wtf:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. The office where I work

is a clinic and we have floating cork floors and clay paint on the walls. No chemical sealants were used on the cedar that is the frame of the building. We don't allow perfumes, etc, in the office, either. We have patients who have such extreme sensitivity that they must wear multiple masks over their faces just to go around town. Here is one of the few places where they can take the masks off.

[Roadless]

98. It always seems to take forever for technology to catch up

Our testing technology seems to be far removed from our ability to produce things. It seems as the years go by, we find out more and more that the things we make are the wrong things to make (DDT being a prime example). It just takes a long time for the testing tech to become good enough.

For exmaple, why would you put anyting in your home that says "harmful if breathed"? WTF? That's a red flat right there. That would be most paint, varnish, carpet cleaner, etc.

Your family is right to avoid all of that crap.

[trotsky]

2. There was also a correlation between autism and early TV viewing.

A study indicated that cities with more widespread availability of cable TV and more frequent rainfall had greater incidences of autism. (Rainfall forcing the kids inside, thus leading to increased TV watching.) That, and now vinyl flooring have much more of a relationship to autism than vaccines ever did.

[KittyWampus]

5. except vaccines might be the trigger for infants with compromised immune systems

and thus cause an onset of what is akin to an allergic reaction.

the trouble with reductionists is they can't see the whole system at one time.

[trotsky]

8. And the trouble with illogical thinkers

is that they identify their target, and then look for any possible reason to still believe it, including denying the facts in front of them.

[KittyWampus]

9. except scientists are working on blood tests to screen infants who might have an allergic reaction

to vaccines.

And you are certainly correct about illogical thinkers. You are a perfect example.

[trotsky]

12. And yet studies of allergic reactions haven't turned up anything...

even CLOSE to what these studies have indicated. You can continue to insult me but the facts here speak for themselves.

[pnwmom]

15. The authors report that their own study is "far from conclusive."

Yet here you are, concluding.

[trotsky]

16. No, I'm not.

What I'm saying is that these studies have at least shown correlation. Vaccine-haters can only dream of even a weak link like that.

[defendandprotect]

29. It's hard to tell whether you're more concerned with autism . . .

or bailing out the vaccine makers?

Meanwhile, there is no "conclusive" evidence here --

and what of overall pollution of air, water - pesticides/chemicals.

The petroleum industry won't take this lightly, either!!

[trotsky]

30. It shouldn't be.

I want the riddles of autism solved. And it's been frustrating wondering how many resources are wasted on the disproven and discredited vaccine hypothesis. But thanks for the insinuations of shilldom. Totally expected! :yourock:

[defendandprotect]

31. There have been earlier studies which show connections between mercury in the vaccines . . .

and autism --

Additionally, the mercury has been there to simply increase the shelf-life of the vaccines!

The vinyl studies are "inconclusive" -- and right now as meaningless as any other pollutant

in our environment.

Let's start hearing from parents of these children what they think --

do American parents of autistic children all have these vinyl floor coverings?

But thanks for the insinuations of shilldom. Totally expected!

Unfortunately, your enthusiasm to not only push an "inconclusive" connection but to

suggest that parent's observations re vaccines are "debunked" leads me to that conclusion!

[trotsky]

38. Keep distorting my position.

It's the only chance you have.

[defendandprotect]

49. It's not my position . . as I recall it's Bobby Kennedy's position --

[EvolveOrConvolve]

67. And Bobby Kennedy graduated from medical school when?

[defendandprotect]

73. I think you forget that America ranks 37th worldwide in health care --- !!!

And our medical schools have all the answers ---

each one "slash and burn" medicine!

We need a system based on prevent, not cures . . . which they never find.

Vaccines are a supposed "cure" which may be triggering many more problems

generation by generation . . . from "allergies to cancers" -----!!!!!

[LeftishBrit]

87. Vaccines are not only used in America but worldwide

'We need a system based on prevent, not cures .'

And vaccines are precisely that.

[defendandprotect]

115. You're saying that, tho vaccines may create autism, allergies and cancer . . .

they are "cures" -- !!!

Was a polio vaccine a "cure" in Africa or did it actually create

the HIV/AIDS epidemic there?

[Maru Kitteh]

118. ARE you FUCKING SERIES? You couldn't be............

How can so much stupid fit in one post? Dayum.

[defendandprotect]

122. Obviously, you're still waiting . . .

for the Enlightenment . . .

[Maru Kitteh]

127. So is my friend. He met my dad on the CB about 37 years ago.

He had a lot of time to spend there, since his legs don't work worth a shit. Because he had polio as a child.

I'll ask him next time we talk what he'd want to say to you about your "enlightenment."

[defendandprotect]

131. Rather, try asking our soldiers what they have to say about our vaccines . . .

and after that ask the parents of autistic children --

an 800% increase in autism -- !!!

If your next response is as personally directed you'll be on ignore -

so I leave it to you as to whether you offer any promise of actual debate --

or whether personal attack is your only talent?

[LeftishBrit]

128. What a bizarre question,

'Was a polio vaccine a "cure" in Africa or did it actually create

the HIV/AIDS epidemic there?'

The first.

Sadly, millions of children still die in Africa and elsewhere in the developing world because poverty and lack of access to medicine deny them their BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to be vaccinated. And these false allegations about vaccinations just contribute to the problem!


'You're saying that, tho vaccines may create autism, allergies and cancer . . .they are "cures" -- !!!'

I am saying that they are *preventions* which are better than cures, and they DO NOT cause autism, allergies and CERTAINLY not cancer!

[defendandprotect]

133. It must be very comfortable to have . . .

no doubts about anything --


'Was a polio vaccine a "cure" in Africa or did it actually create

the HIV/AIDS epidemic there?'

The first.

Unfortunately, there are many questions and doubts about our performance in Africa
and the polio vaccine which may have brought HIV/AIDS to them. If you're not familiar
with those concerns, I'm sure the internet will supply you with answers.

Sadly, millions of children still die in Africa and elsewhere in the developing world because poverty and lack of access to medicine deny them their BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to be vaccinated. And these false allegations about vaccinations just contribute to the problem!

Sadly, like many other nations we have taken over and pilaged -- Africa, which was a civilized
nation long before Europe, has been greatly harmed by those seeking riches.

There is a "human right" to health care. There is no right to "do harm." In fact, the
Hippocratic Oath says .... "above all do no harm."

These will be either "false" or "true" accusations about vaccines when investigations have run
their course -- and not without a great deal more investigation and challenge to the drug
industry.

'You're saying that, tho vaccines may create autism, allergies and cancer . . .they are "cures" -- !!!'

I am saying that they are *preventions* which are better than cures, and they DO NOT cause autism, allergies and CERTAINLY not cancer!

The very first polio vaccines used here killed children -- in fact, at least one child of a
rather famous doctor.

Again, we have vaccines creating great problems for our own soldiers --

We have vaccines creating conditions in animals similar to the conditions which are harming
America's children.

We have others studying the vaccine problems who are alerting us that autism isn't the only
problem; that vaccines are being connected to other allergies and cancer.

There are very few absolutes in the world -- and certain vaccines aren't one of them!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

100. Please answer my question

When did Kennedy receive his medical degree?

[defendandprotect]

116. Why would that be relevant . . . Does the Pope have a medical degree?

How often is the Pope telling Catholics that to avoid AIDS they should NOT use

condoms?

Bobby Kennedy has brought sanity to this issue -- for one, in listening to the parents.

There is a lot at stake here -- as we very well saw with the soldiers who were harmed

by vaccines and the repeated attempts by our corrupt government to deny responsibility --

remember Gulf War Syndrome, as well?

As we've seen repeatedly in America, the overriding issue of importance to our

drug industry is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[Maru Kitteh]

119. Tomorrow, I think you should design the new Mars program. Your education is not relevant.

You are obviously a fucking rocket scientist, if ever I have seen one.


No wait.

I actually KNOW a rocket scientist. You are nothing like her.

[defendandprotect]

121. As impressed as I am with your debate . . .

it's really the personal attacks which convince me of your expertise . . .

Tomorrow, I think you should design the new Mars program. Your education is not relevant.
You are obviously a fucking rocket scientist, if ever I have seen one.


No wait.

I actually KNOW a rocket scientist. You are nothing like her.
~ "the time has come to set aside childish things." - President Barack. Obama, January

[Maru Kitteh]

126. You argue that aducation and experiece are not relevant.

I'm enormously curious by nature, and I want to know exactly how many areas of your life are guided by this kind of "let the bread-baker build the skyscraper" notion.

[defendandprotect]

130. No -- I agrue that when you educate a fool . . .

what you get is an educated fool.

Further, our system of health care is not the envy of the world --

and we have drug companies in a runaway situation as far as side effects and profits!

When individuals are taken into a system like our medical system they often lose the

ability to think freely and to act freely. I think drug company influence on doctors

right now is a great problem.

We continue to create diseases and cure none.

Again, we don't know what the long term effects of vaccines may be.

Americans have to become partners in their medical care -- and that only happens when

we practice preventive medicine.

[LeftishBrit]

132. I think that's all too good an analogy!

Some people, such as the Pope, are against condoms and/or stem cell research on religious grounds. Others are against vaccines on ideological grounds (usually involving dislike of Pharma companies, suspicion of the government, or a general belief that 'natural' remedies are always better than allopathic medicine). In all these cases, ideology is set above evidence from medical science - which, whatever its limitations, is IMO much more reliable than decisions based on ideology.

Certainly, people should have a right to their own views and their own choices - just so long as other people's freedom of choice is not trumped.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

139. The pope is equally unqualified to make medical claims

Bobby Kennedy is an attorney who has brings a legal POV to a medical issue. Neither Kennedy nor the pope are qualified to override the findings made by doctors and scientists who have performed the actual work on these issues.

(BTW, I just love how your post rambles from one fallacy to another. It's utterly breathtaking!)

[Maru Kitteh]

117. We rank for shit in healthcare because half of our citizens don't get it.

VACCINES ARE PREVENTION.

Jesus on a trailer hitch. And then he wept.

[defendandprotect]

35. the authors report the connections are "inconclusive."

[defendandprotect]

34. There have been studies of some of these infants which have turned up

physical evidence -- and it's been posted here.

And there have been at least two prior studies which have connected the

vaccines/mercury to autism.

Meanwhile, they are changing the schedules for administering these vaccines

which have been given very early in "batteries."

[trotsky]

40. Sorry, you're totally misusing data.

But I understand it is difficult to give up an idea that you hold religiously.

[defendandprotect]

50. US Government Concedes That Mercury Causes Autism ....

During the review, medical experts discussed the results from a study that showed urinary mercury concentrations were six times higher in children with autism, as opposed to normal-age/vaccine matched controls. They also said that they found evidence that suggested the link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism had a higher risk than that between lung cancer and smoking cigarettes. U.S. Government Concedes That Mercury Causes Autism

------------

U.S. Government Concedes That Mercury Causes Autism
http://newsoftwaresite.com/4u/us-government-concedes-that-mercury-causes-autism/

The unprecedented concession was in response to one of three test cases that allege the mercury-containing vaccine preservative thimerosal caused autism in children.

According to the case, the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, where she received vaccinations for nine diseases, two of which contained thimerosal. Within 48 hours of the shots, Hannah become ill, refused to walk and could not sleep through the night. Within three months, she began showing signs of autism.

Although federal officials continue to say there is no link between autism and vaccines, this concession says otherwise.

There are currently 4,900 autism cases pending in Federal “Vaccine Court.”

--------------

There is little doubt that thimerosal, a preservative that is 49.6 percent ethylmercury, is a contributing factor in many cases of autism. It is a well-established fact that exposure to mercury can cause immune, sensory, neurological, motor, and behavioral dysfunctions — all similar to traits defining, or associated with, autism.

There may also be another component in vaccines that is causing damage. For instance, according to Donald W. Miller, Jr., MD:

“Another important factor with regard to mercury on the mind … is synergistic toxicity — mercury’s enhanced effect when other poisons are present. A small dose of mercury that kills 1 in 100 rats and a dose of aluminum that will kill 1 in 100 rats, when combined have a striking effect: all the rats die.

Doses of mercury that have a 1 percent mortality will have a 100 percent mortality rate if some aluminum is there. Vaccines contain aluminum.”
Have Autism Rates Declined Since Thimerosal Was Removed From Vaccines?

Thimerosal was taken out of most childhood vaccines at the beginning of the decade. In 2006, studies of two government databases indicated that autism rates went up as thimerosal dosages increased, then began to decline as thimerosal was removed.

Yet, if you look at this Time magazine article, it says that autism rates have continued to climb since thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 2001. Why the discrepancy?

It could be due to the fact that in 2002 the U.S. government began recommending flu shots to children under 2 (and now recommends them for kids until they’re 18). Well, most flu shots still contain thimerosal, so many infants are still being exposed to mercury.

There is also the issue of vaccine timing.

“Giving too many vaccines over too short a time to infants whose nervous system is not yet fully developed can also trigger autism and its spectrum of disorders,” Dr. Miller says.

And, according to Dr. Russell Blaylock, multiple vaccines given close together over-stimulate your brain’s immune system and, via the mechanism of “bystander injury,” destroy brain cells.

What Else is Fueling the Autism Epidemic?

Autism now affects about one in 150 U.S. children. A small portion of these cases, perhaps 1 percent, may be due to genetic defects, and the rest are likely caused by exposure to toxic chemicals, viruses or other environmental influences.

[defendandprotect]

51. U.S. Government Concedes That Mercury Causes Autism ---

During the review, medical experts discussed the results from a study that showed urinary mercury concentrations were six times higher in children with autism, as opposed to normal-age/vaccine matched controls. They also said that they found evidence that suggested the link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism had a higher risk than that between lung cancer and smoking cigarettes. U.S. Government Concedes That Mercury Causes Autism

------------
U.S. Government Concedes That Mercury Causes Autism
http://newsoftwaresite.com/4u/us-government-concedes-that-mercury-causes-autism/

The unprecedented concession was in response to one of three test cases that allege the mercury-containing vaccine preservative thimerosal caused autism in children.

According to the case, the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, where she received vaccinations for nine diseases, two of which contained thimerosal. Within 48 hours of the shots, Hannah become ill, refused to walk and could not sleep through the night. Within three months, she began showing signs of autism.

Although federal officials continue to say there is no link between autism and vaccines, this concession says otherwise.

There are currently 4,900 autism cases pending in Federal “Vaccine Court.”

--------------

There is little doubt that thimerosal, a preservative that is 49.6 percent ethylmercury, is a contributing factor in many cases of autism. It is a well-established fact that exposure to mercury can cause immune, sensory, neurological, motor, and behavioral dysfunctions — all similar to traits defining, or associated with, autism.

There may also be another component in vaccines that is causing damage. For instance, according to Donald W. Miller, Jr., MD:

“Another important factor with regard to mercury on the mind … is synergistic toxicity — mercury’s enhanced effect when other poisons are present. A small dose of mercury that kills 1 in 100 rats and a dose of aluminum that will kill 1 in 100 rats, when combined have a striking effect: all the rats die.

Doses of mercury that have a 1 percent mortality will have a 100 percent mortality rate if some aluminum is there. Vaccines contain aluminum.”
Have Autism Rates Declined Since Thimerosal Was Removed From Vaccines?

Thimerosal was taken out of most childhood vaccines at the beginning of the decade. In 2006, studies of two government databases indicated that autism rates went up as thimerosal dosages increased, then began to decline as thimerosal was removed.

Yet, if you look at this Time magazine article, it says that autism rates have continued to climb since thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 2001. Why the discrepancy?

It could be due to the fact that in 2002 the U.S. government began recommending flu shots to children under 2 (and now recommends them for kids until they’re 18). Well, most flu shots still contain thimerosal, so many infants are still being exposed to mercury.

There is also the issue of vaccine timing.

“Giving too many vaccines over too short a time to infants whose nervous system is not yet fully developed can also trigger autism and its spectrum of disorders,” Dr. Miller says.

And, according to Dr. Russell Blaylock, multiple vaccines given close together over-stimulate your brain’s immune system and, via the mechanism of “bystander injury,” destroy brain cells.

What Else is Fueling the Autism Epidemic?

Autism now affects about one in 150 U.S. children. A small portion of these cases, perhaps 1 percent, may be due to genetic defects, and the rest are likely caused by exposure to toxic chemicals, viruses or other environmental influences.


---------------

Wall Street, the broader American public and the global community is
largely unaware of the controversy. It isnt a stretch to say Big Pharmas
fortunes are tethered in part to the Amazon.com sales rank of Evidence of
Harm. Over the past two decades, cases of autism have risen sharply in the
US. In 1987, roughly one in 10,000 American children were diagnosed with
autism or a related disorder. Today the rate is 1 in 166. The epidemic has
coincided with a surge in new vaccinations for infants between 1988 and
1991. Many of these vaccines contained a preservative called thimerosal,
which is 49.6 per cent mercury based on weight.


The book plays like a detective story. It begins with a crime of sorts.
The protagonists took their children for thimerosal-based vaccination
shots, then watched in horror as their kids became violently ill soon
before tumbling into the hell of autism. The parents search for clues and
their path keeps leading them to mercury.


In 1982, the US Food and Drug Administration banned thimerosal and other
mercury-based preservatives for use in products such as skin creams and
nasal sprays, but never did anything about thimerosal that gets injected
into newborn babies. The ex-Soviet Union banned thimerosal-based vaccines
two decades ago.


In the 1940s, a condition known as Pink Disease afflicted thousands of
children with symptoms similar to autism. It arose in those with
sensitivity to mercury being used as an antiseptic in teething powders.
Once mercury was removed from the powders, Pink Disease disappeared.


The parents are troubled by the US health agencies who, in their opinion,
seemed more interested in protecting the US vaccination program and
downplaying the evidence of a likely link than acknowledging the crisis.
The parents are aghast when an unknown person slipped an eleventh-hour
rider in the anti-terrorism Homeland Security Act aimed at inoculating Eli
Lilly, which invented thimerosal in the 1920s, and vaccine makers such as
Merck and GlaxoSmithKline, from hundreds of mercury-related lawsuits. While
US health officials in 1999 called for a voluntary removal of vaccines
containing thimerosal, they remain in use in the US and around the globe.
Attorneys have found loopholes that have allowed them to press ahead with
lawsuits alleging fraud and malfeasance by the industry for using toxic
mercury in infant vaccines.


If any one of these suits is successful, the possible damages beggar
comprehension. As many as 1.5m Americans have been diagnosed with some form
of autism, and a conservative estimate puts the cost for lifetime
treatment, education and care at $2m per person. Whether the industry or
the government ends up footing the bill if a link is found, the potential
liability makes asbestos litigation look like belonging to a small claims
court.


http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.med/2005-03/2118.html


-------------------------------------------------

[defendandprotect]

52. Here's another interesting link . . .

In his masterful research Andrew Wakefield, MD, a prominent British gastroenterologist, documented measles virus infection in the intestinal walls of nearly %100 of the autistic children he scoped and biopsied, who developed their disease within a short time after MMR vaccination.

********** ---------------------------------------------------------- ***********

What's Behind the Autism Epidemic? There is Hope for Autism
"Childhood autism is the result of encephalitis affecting primarily the limbic system of the brain, located below the cerebral cortex. A relatively few number of cases are due to genetic causes, but officially the great majority are of unknown causes. Bernard Rimland, PhD, founding director of the Autism Research Institute, estimates that there are now a minimum of 250,000 autistic children in America, a 10 to 15-fold increase in the past 50 or so years. Dr. Rimland, internationally recognized as a leading expert in the field of autism, has publically stated that he believes current childhood vaccine programs are one of the major causes for the current epidemic of autism. The US Committee on Children, Youth, and Families has estimated there are now 7.5 million American children with developmental delay compared with 4.8 million in 1991. Of these, 30% are thought to be autistic or have autistic tendencies. Dawbarns Law Firm of England has published a paper in which they report on over 600 instances of side effects following the MMR and MR vaccines, which were introduced in England in 1988.3 These include 202 cases of autism, 97 of epilepsy, 40 with hearing and vision problems, and 41 with 100 behavioral and learning problems, the latter in older children. Although British health officials deny a relationship of these conditions with the vaccines, Dawbarns has accounts of over 200 parents who believe that their children were normal before they were vaccinated, and who can point to nothing (other than the vaccine) which could account for the deterioration in their children's conditions. " Harold E. Buttram, MD --- more


--------------------------------

AND . . . also interesting --

Autism and Vaccinations
By Mary Megson, MD

I have practiced pediatrics for twenty-two years, the last fifteen years seeing only children with developmental disabilities, which include learning disabilities, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, cerebral palsy, mental retardation and autism. In 1978, I learned as a resident at Boston Floating Hospital that the incidence of autism was one in 10,000 children. Over the last ten years I have watched the incidence of autism skyrocket to 1/300-1/600 children.

Over the last nine months, I have treated over 1,200 children in my office. Ninety percent of these children are autistic and from the Richmond area alone. Yet the State Department of Education reports that there are only 1,522 autistic students in the entire state of Virginia.

more


http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/autism.htm#2b

[trotsky]

60. Andrew Wakefield: Discredited FRAUD

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/andrew-wakefield-exposed-as-fraud.html

Better luck next time.

[defendandprotect]

64. Rep. Dan Burton: : the flu shot contains mercury" ...

Unfortunately,

Dr. Wakefield was recently asked to resign from his position because the results of his research was unpopular.

According to his work, Dr. Wakefield theorizes that the measles virus infection and subsequent pathology in the gut walls leads to a leaky-gut like syndrome causing absorption of encephelopathic toxins which directly affects the developing brains of susceptible children leading to autistic like symptoms."


Oct 1, 2003 Congressman Dan Burton - "Madam speaker, as we approach the flu season, many of my colleagues will visit the doctor's office here on Capitol Hill and receive a flu shot. Before they go, I think all of my colleagues ought to know that the flu shot contains mercury, which is a substance that's toxic to the human brain. Now, that's not to say that you shouldn't get your flu shot if you want to, but there are a lot of neurological disorders that have been caused by mercury and I think everybody ought to know that there is mercury in that vaccine. Now, that's not the only vaccine that contains thimerosal. From anthrax to hepatitis to dtap, which is given to infants to protect them, numerous vaccines exist that contain mercury, a harmful preservative. Parents around this country I am sure would be very upset if they knew that. Scientific evidence continues to accumulate regarding the biologically plausible connection between mercury and thimerosal, autism and other neurological, developmental disorders. We have one in 10,000 children 10 years ago that were autistic. Now it's one in 150 and scientists before my committee say it's because in large part of the mercury in the vaccines". Congressman Dan Burton

[trotsky]

77. A 6-year-old article quoting a Republican?

That's the best you can do? Seriously, Wakefield's work was faked. He did it because he was being paid lots of money by lawyers to find the conclusion they wanted. All his co-researchers removed themselves from his report. Wakefield is discredited and disgraced - feel free to hold him up as your hero, though.

[LeftishBrit]

86. Dan Burton is a right-wing Republican congressman,,,

surely he should not be taken as an authority on anything?

[defendandprotect]

92. Yep, Burton is right wing . . . but in this case he had a friend, or relative ....

or something like that -- and in this case, I think he is correct to make
the connection between vaccines and problems.

To ignore all of the studies which connect them -- to ignore parental concerns
about the vaccines --

to ignore the evidence that vaccines have harmed our soldiers --

and that they seem to be harming animals as reported by vets ---

I think is not good medicine!

And, btw, we rank 37th or lower in health care internationally . . . !!!

[LeftishBrit]

88. Andrew Wakefield is a charlatan

His research is very dodgy and he used no control group.

Bernard Rimland put forward his hypothesis about vaccines and autism in the early 90s. It was reasonable enough as a *hypothesis* for testing. However, much subsequent research indicates no link between vaccines and autism: in particular, in Japan where the MMR vaccine was withdrawn for several years and then re-introduced - with no impact on autism rates.

In any case, the MMR vaccine never contained mercury. Wakefield is arguing that measles vaccine as such is a cause of autism.

[trotsky]

57. Totally misstated and incorrect summary.

But that hasn't stopped the anti-vax movement from trying to use it.

[defendandprotect]

65. I'll leave it to other readers/posters to decide for themselves . . .

[trotsky]

79. And indeed they should. But they should know that Hannah Poling was NOT diagnosed with autism.

And if you actually read the court case, you would have known that.

But aren't you supposed to be ignoring me?

[defendandprotect]

33. Parents connect the vaccines to the negative changes in their children . . .

and you're accusing them of "identifying a target" and they looking for any "possible reason"

to connect autism to vaccines? And that they're denying the facts in front of them?

The parents are the least to be suspected of foul play in this!!!

[trotsky]

39. Ah yes, because being the parent of an autistic child...

automatically makes one an expert in the fields of immunology and neuroscience. Sorry I forgot about that.

[defendandprotect]

55. Ah, I forgot, being a drug company automatically makes one immune

from suspicion --

Our trust in capitalism, drug companies and the FDA is unconditional -- !!!


Not only have all government agencies been corrupted over the past decades --

over the last 8 years, they've been made criminal --


Observation is one of the most important aspects of science --

except when drug companies don't like the observations.

[trotsky]

58. Most excellent non sequitir!

But I suppose it's your only option when you have nothing else.

[defendandprotect]

62. It couldn't be more appropo to your vile comment about parents . . .

of autistic children --

Ah yes, because being the parent of an autistic child...
automatically makes one an expert in the fields of immunology and neuroscience. Sorry I forgot about that.

:eyes:

Your intentions are probably clearer than you wished to make them --
and you're on "ignore."

[trotsky]

63. You must have a very strange definition of the word "vile."

But then, the only argument you had was trying to demonize me, so you do what you have to do, I suppose. Glad to be ignored by someone like you.

[defendandprotect]

70. "vile" . . .

vile

1. wretchedly bad: a vile humor.

2. highly offensive, unpleasant, or objectionable
3. repulsive or disgusting, as to the senses or feelings

4. morally debased, depraved, or despicable: vile deeds.
5. foul; filthy: vile language.
6. poor; wretched: vile workmanship.
7. of mean or low condition: a vile beggar.
8. menial; lowly: vile tasks.
9. degraded; ignominious: vile servitude.
10. of little value or account; paltry: a vile recompense.

[varkam]

74. What if some find it highly offensive...

that people wrap themselves with their personal struggles in an attempt to give themselves more credibility as scientific researchers? Is that not also considered vile?

[trotsky]

83. Too bad none of those applied to my criticism!

I feel for the parents of autistic children. But the plain and simple fact of the matter is that just having an autistic child doesn't make you an expert as to autism's causes, its triggers, or its "treatment."

[muriel_volestrangler]

146. Why are you replying to yourself, with a definition of ignore?

Surely you couldn't be trying to get round the rules on ignoring people, by sneaking a peek when not logged on, to read what a person you've ignored has said - and then trying to position a reply to them as close as possible, though you're not allowed to reply directly?

What's the point in doing a Cartman-like "screw you, I'm going home" and then peeping round the corner to see what the conversation you swore you'd take no further part in is like? It's pathetic behaviour.

[varkam]

10. "compromised immune systems"?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. Maybe what is meant is

that certain people aren't able to get rid of toxins through the liver, which is the normal way of doing it. Also when a person has certain types of food sensitivity, the body actually looks on that food as a foreign agent that must be destroyed, much like germs or viruses. So the immune system goes into action not over the flu but over eating honey--or gluten--or cheese--or green beans. There is a test called a Food Antibody Profile that can show if someone is sensitive to these foods.

[riverdeep]

13. Can you clarify this a little?

On first impact, to some it may sound like you're advocating against vaccines in general, is that really what you're saying?

[defendandprotect]

32. I agree . . . and physical evidence from some of these children seems to suggest the connection ...

[pnwmom]

14. One very preliminary study and now you're certain that vinyl flooring

has "much more of a relationship to autism than vaccines ever did." That's funny.

Tell that to Hannah Poling's parents.

[trotsky]

18. I am not certain at all.

Quit assigning me false positions.

[pnwmom]

45. That's a laugh. I'd hate to listen to you sounding certain then.

This is what you said:

"That, and now vinyl flooring have much more of a relationship to autism than vaccines ever did."

"Much more" and "ever did" are phrases that emphasize your certainty.

But when have you ever sounded tentative? Maybe you can't tell the difference.

[trotsky]

46. I'm sorry you had trouble understanding that sentence.

Let me help you out:

There is no - none - zero - nada - zip link between autism and vaccines. Never has been. By definition then, even an unconfirmed, tenuous, coincidental link between vinyl flooring and autism is "MUCH MORE" than the vaccine hypothesis ever had.

Got it?

[pnwmom]

53. I didn't realize you were unaware of the two autism symptom cases that

vaccine courts have already ruled were linked to vaccines. In Hannah Poling's case, for example, the vaccine apparently triggered her mitochondrial disorder, leading to her autism symptoms.

That explains why you keep sounding so certain.

Here's an interview with Dr. Julie Gerberding that might fill in some of the gaps in your knowledge on this topic. (That's okay; she's not current on all the research either.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uxJE92R0ss

[trotsky]

56. You're wrong on both counts.

But that's par for the course.

[varkam]

75. Missing the point on the Poling case.

Poling's MD was the culprit - the vaccine just happened to set it off. Think of it this way: the MD was like a bomb, just waiting for something to come along and light the fuse. In her case, it happened to be the vaccine - but it just as easily could have been a cold, a viral infection, or something that could have been vaccinated against. It's technically accurate to say that the vaccine caused her degeneration, but it's also highly suspect to just stop there. It wasn't anything special about the vaccine, per se.

[pnwmom]

84. That's a distinction without a difference. If she hadn't received the vaccine at

that age, she might have passed the age-window when her mitochondrial disorder could cause autism symptoms to be triggered. She could have been like my oldest child, who only had a couple of colds before she started preschool, and neither of them gave her a fever. My daughter's only fevers came from the vaccines she had. Like my daughter, I was an oldest child who got exposed to nothing but a few mild colds before I started school. This could have been the case for Poling too -- we'll never know.

We need to identify the subgroups of the population who may be harmed by a vaccine, whether it is because the vaccine acts as a trigger, or because it interacts with other factors in a child's environment, or with other vaccines; and to stop pretending that all of the vaccines, in any combination, or with any adjuvant, repeated any number of times (as with Somali immigrant children who often received unnecessary boosters due to paperwork issues) are always safe.

[varkam]

85. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

I thought that you were asserting that it was something inherently dangerous with the vaccine that triggered the autism symptoms - so maybe we're just agreeing but in a really strange way.

We need to identify the subgroups of the population who may be harmed by a vaccine, whether it is because the vaccine acts as a trigger, or because it interacts with other factors in a child's environment, or with other vaccines; and to stop pretending that all of the vaccines, in any combination, or with any adjuvant, repeated any number of times (as with Somali immigrant children who often received unnecessary boosters due to paperwork issues) are always safe.

No one is claiming that vaccines are always safe. Any medical procedure has a risk, and that has to be weighed against the benefit.

[pnwmom]

97. I don't think you yourself are claiming that vaccines are always safe,

or even that mercury added to vaccines is always safe, or even that no link has ever connected a vaccine with autism. But I HAVE heard variants of those sentiments expressed on DU, including in response to this OP.

My children were given all of the standardly recommended vaccines except -- because of our family situation -- for the old pertussis. And in my state, it is possible to withhold a vaccine based on a philosophical objection. So obviously, I've never been asserting that there's something inherently dangerous to ALL children with the MMR vaccine. But I think it was correct to eliminate unnecessary mercury from children's vaccines, and that there needs to be more research on the effect on a child's immune system of giving different vaccines on the same day or in a short period of time. Also, that we shouldn't be so quick to add vaccines to the mandatory schedule; that we have moved from vaccinating against life-threatening (or birth defect threatening) diseases to whatever-vaccine-the-manufacturer-has-developed. I don't think ALL vaccines are equally worthy of a place on the vaccine schedule, particularly in those critical first few years of life.

[varkam]

101. Well, I think...

that, in all honestly, and I mean this as respectfully as possible, that the assertion that some claim vaccines are always safe is a strawman argument. I'm not saying you're making it intentionally, but I don't think that I have ever seen anyone claim that vaccines are always safe (i.e. that there are never any ADRs - otherwise what would be the reason for the VICP).

When you say that mercury in vaccines is always safe - well, now we're treading in murkier waters because it becomes an issue of identifying mercury as a cause. I'd grant that it might cause some ADRs, but when we start talking about autism - well, that's something that just hasn't been borne out by the bulk of the research done on the subject thus far.

And, as I had pointed out previously, saying that there is a link between vaccines and autism is technically correct (i.e. the Poling case) - but there needs to be one hell of an asterisk there as to just stop with that is only telling about a third of the story (i.e. that it wasn't the vaccine in and of itself that caused the autism - rather, the vaccine kicked off an underlying medical condition that is extremely rare, even in autistic populations). Moreover, with the MD, anything could have set it off. If it were measles that did it and the parents didn't vaccinate...well...

But I think it was correct to eliminate unnecessary mercury from children's vaccines, and that there needs to be more research on the effect on a child's immune system of giving different vaccines on the same day or in a short period of time. Also, that we shouldn't be so quick to add vaccines to the mandatory schedule; that we have moved from vaccinating against life-threatening (or birth defect threatening) diseases to whatever-vaccine-the-manufacturer-has-developed. I don't think ALL vaccines are equally worthy of a place on the vaccine schedule, particularly in those critical first few years of life.

I think that, the problem is, all that research is geared with the conclusion already firmly in hand - which is just not the way research should be directed. There are dozens of studies on the subject of vaccines and autism now with hundreds of thousands of subjects - and the verdict is that there is no significant connection. Sure, there might be other cases like the Poling's, but the culprit there was really the MD. Further, AFAIK, there's not really a way to screen for MD that would be practical when it comes to vaccination.

I also disagree that we are "so quick" to add vaccines to the mandatory schedule, but I'm curious what you think are the vaccines that are not necessary. I'd figure that the Hep B is a popular target for that one - but here's what the AAP says:

Why, then, do we immunize children against hepatitis B when they don't have sex, don't take drugs, and are not nurses or police officers? One important reason is that babies can get infected too. If a mother is chronically infected with hepatitis B, her baby could become infected during birth. If these babies are not immunized immediately, most of them will become chronically infected too. One out of 4 of these babies will eventually die from cirrhosis or liver cancer. Also, children can be infected through exposure to blood, saliva, or other fluids from infected children or adults. While this is not common, vaccination is a reasonable precaution, particularly since the vaccine is a very safe one.

So while it's true that babies probably aren't going to be exposed to it, but if they are then there's a 25% mortality rate. Seems like a pretty good idea, to me.

I don't think ALL vaccines are equally worthy of a place on the vaccine schedule, particularly in those critical first few years of life.

That's precisely why the vaccines are given during those years - because they are critical. Going back to the risk versus benefit thing, I would say that the risk of having a kid become seriously ill or die from a vaccine-preventable illness far outweighs the risk of any significant ADR.

[pnwmom]

102. Yes, hep B is one I'm concerned about.

Why not just test mothers? Only give the vaccine to the infants of infected mothers?

In my case, there was virtually no chance that I had hep-B, based on my own social and medical history. And I wouldn't have objected to being tested for antibodies. But my doctor strongly recommended the vaccine for my newborn, so I went along with it. Later, the question came up with my 9 year old. After already having given the vaccine to my baby, I said, sure, give it to the 9 year old, too.

Well, a few months later she developed elevated liver enzymes, and she's had them ever since. Three biopsies, hundreds of blood tests, and many years later, we still don't know what's wrong with her, but it's likely autoimmune related. The only related antibody she has is for hep-B (and she hasn't had mono, Epstein Barr, or a host of other diseases), but the doctors are sure the elevated enzymes can't be caused by the hep-B vaccine. They're just sure that the vaccine can't do this. I'm not so sure, since they've eliminated everything else, and one of the known complications of a hep-B infection is that the anti-bodies produced can lead to an auto-immune disorder -- chronic active hepatitis.

If you were the parent, wouldn't you be wondering if it was a mistake to have given your 9 year old that particular vaccine? Would you want any future newborn of yours to have that vaccine, knowing that there was virtually no chance that you yourself were infected? Wouldn't you wish there was more information on which children might be vulnerable to damage from vaccines that don't hurt most children?

[varkam]

103. Well...

Why not just test mothers? Only give the vaccine to the infants of infected mothers?

Because that's not the only way that it can be spread. It can also be spread via exposure to the blood and saliva of someone who is infected. Given the high mortality rate, it seems wise policy to vaccinate against it.

With regards to your situation, you have my sympathies. It does seem, though, that the time disconnect between vaccination and developing the elevated liver enzymes that it might be pointing to something else. And honestly I don't know how I would feel since I have never been in that situation.

[pnwmom]

104. But newborns wouldn't need the vaccine if their mothers weren't infected.

Unless you're saying a nurse in the hospital might spit on them. (I'm kidding, obviously.) And in babies, there's research showing that the immunity only lasts for five years. So there's no good reason that I can see to give a newborn in the hospital that vaccine -- if you know the mother isn't infected. The time to give that vaccine would be before a child would become sexually active -- which is not on day two in the hospital.

As to the time disconnect for my daughter's hep-B vaccine and the measured liver elevations, it was only a few months. But we don't know when the liver enzymes FIRST became elevated -- just that, at the moment she was tested, they were already elevated. For all we know, they could have been high a couple of weeks after the vaccine. We don't know because they don't test people's liver enzymes after they have the vaccine. And they rarely test children's liver enzymes at at all. (Her liver elevations were found when they tested her blood for an unrelated problem.)

I know you haven't been in this situation, but I think you can imagine how I felt, knowing that a then optional vaccine that I had allowed her to have might have resulted in chronic active hepatitis (which, at the time, had a 10 yr. prognosis). Any parent would be devastated.

[varkam]

107. No...

Exposure does not equal "spitting" - though if someone with hep b were to cough or sneeze around a baby, and that were to get into their eyes or some such...

The reason for giving the vaccine is not just because of sexual activity, as I have explained. Additionally, the mortality rate is pretty high. If I were a parent, and I didn't give my child the hep B vaccine, and they contracted it and died...well, I can imagine that would be pretty devastating, also.

[pnwmom]

108. We don't worry about people getting HIV from casual contact with AIDS patients.

In the same way, a child won't be getting Hep-B from casual contact with someone infected with that disease. There's no reason to push this vaccine into fragile newborns (all newborns are fragile) who haven't contracted the illness from the mother. The vaccine can wait till the child is closer to the age where exposure might occur.

My doctor told me that the reason they give it to newborns is in case the mother is infected -- and, when she isn't, for the sake of convenience. (The baby is there and the parents are strongly motivated.) But that argument is weaker now since they've realized that when the vaccine is given at birth the immunity only lasts a few years.

[varkam]

109. That's probably because HIV and Hep B are not the same thing.

In the same way, a child won't be getting Hep-B from casual contact with someone infected with that disease

That's all well and good except that it flatly contradicts what the science says about Hep B transmission. Exposure and contraction of Hep B can occur at any age and in the absence of sexual contact and has a 25% mortality rate for children.

My doctor told me that the reason they give it to newborns is in case the mother is infected -- and, when she isn't, for the sake of convenience. (The baby is there and the parents are strongly motivated.) But that argument is weaker now since they've realized that when the vaccine is given at birth the immunity only lasts a few years.

Again, all well and good except that's not the only reason its given to newborns. As the AAP have pointed out, contraction of Hep B can occur even without the mother being infected. And I don't really see how the argument for giving it in cases of where the mother is infected has anything to do with the immunity lasting only a few years. You don't really even need the immunity to last a year in cases where the mother is infected - but you do need it to last long enough so that the newborn doesn't contract it from the mother - again, with a 25% mortality rate.

[pnwmom]

112. Hep-B is spread in exactly the same ways as HIV.

It's NOT spread through casual transmission, unlike some other hepatitis types.

http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/HBV/HBVfaq.htm#treatment

How is HBV transmitted?

HBV is transmitted through activities that involve percutaneous (i.e., puncture through the skin) or mucosal contact with infectious blood or body fluids (e.g., semen, saliva), including

Sex with an infected partner
Injection drug use that involves sharing needles, syringes, or drug-preparation equipment
Birth to an infected mother
Contact with blood or open sores of an infected person
Needle sticks or sharp instrument exposures
Sharing items such as razors or toothbrushes with an infected person

HBV is not spread through food or water, sharing eating utensils, breastfeeding, hugging, kissing, hand holding, coughing, or sneezing.

[varkam]

113. I think that such casual transmission is possible...

according to the AAP, but is not common - and I'm not claiming that it is. Given the high mortality rate, though, it seems that it would be a risky venture not to vaccinate compared with the relative benefits of vaccinating.

[Maru Kitteh]

120. It's a distinction with an extraordinarry difference. Many of the diseases she was vaccinated

against could have killed her outright.

The vaccine she took served merely as a tipping point that would have inevitably been achieved, and she is ALIVE.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. I'll agree with that statement.

Vaccines don't cause autism.

There's not even a correlation.

[Tesha]

4. Pthalates, at first blush, sound a lot more reasonable than many other alleged "causes".

And if they do turn out to be causative, remember that any of
us who used "unbreakable" polycarbonate baby bottles also
provided a substantial dosage of pthalates along with the
baby's meals. :(

Tesha

[SoCalDem]

6. I hated plastic baby bottles.. we used glass ones..35 years ago

and back then the nipples for them were still rubber..not plastic..

never gave my kids "real" baby food either.. I got a food processor, and just held off on salt & sugar & pureed my own.. No allergies in our kids, and they all grew into table foods quite easily too:)

[SheilaT]

22. And if you're using bottles

plastic or otherwise, you're probably giving them formula, not breast milk. Every so often they figure out that there's some other utterly essential nutrient in breast milk that has been left out of the formula.

Neither of my two never had drop one of formula. They never got breast milk in bottles, either. And for what it's worth, my oldest son is mildly autistic, has Asperger's Syndrome. They both have an auto-immune disorder, alopecia areata, which causes hair loss. So there are no perfect guarantees of anything.

[RayOfHope]

82. My son with aspergers never had a drop of formula either n/t

[bunnies]

7. In other 'baffling' news, plastic is poison...

poison is bad? Who knew?! :banghead:

[defendandprotect]

37. Right . . . but we continue on using it -- from medical supplies to food -- !!!

[bunnies]

43. And dont forget those water pipes!

more PVC please! :banghead:

[Tesha]

41. Typical ridiculously-broad-brushed DU reply (NT)

[bunnies]

42. Youre either uninformed or joking. I hope its the latter. nt

[Tesha]

44. Nope, not joking. I simply don't believe "all plastics are poison".

And I don't sign up for the hysteria that some topics
expose here at DU.

Tesha

[anigbrowl]

48. Nope. 'Plastics are poison' is so broad as to be ridiculous.

There are many different kinds of plastic. You might as well say that glass is poisonous because some kinds of glass include lead. I'm not blind to the health risks associated with certain kinds of plastics, but your statement above is simplistic.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. The problem is that the causes of autism are many

and are basically individualized. Thinking now is that it is generally caused by one or a combination of factors--inability to process toxins, malabsorption, food sensitivities, etc. At the Foundation, we treat each person as an individual, doing testing to determine what we can do to best help the person. For more information on this subject, see

http://www.futurevisionsfoundation.org/autismpage.html

[Marrah_G]

61. And there are so many different forms of what they call autism.

I know two kids with autism. One is able to talk a little and will communicate on her own terms. The other is a savant type with no real contact to others. The first is half of female identical twins. The other is half of a male set of identical twins.

[riverdeep]

19. I don't know what further testing will find,

but we do know that all of us now have many modern chemicals in our system. Bill Moyers was famously tested for them and he was quite surprised.

His test results – much like a chemical fingerprint – revealed evidence of hazardous chemicals in common use – as well as compounds banned for more than a quarter century – and others so obscure that almost no public information is available to identify what products might have resulted in Moyers' exposure.

http://www.pbs.org/tradesecrets/problem/bodyburden.html

Of course, 'natural' chemicals can be extremely toxic to us as well. Arsenic is naturally occurring, for example.

[aikoaiko]

23. Likely a spurious correlation, but it should be pursued, of course, without hysteria

I believe in science.

[Odin2005]

24. Autism is genetic. This BS is annoying.

[Junkdrawer]

25. Must have been a BIG cosmic ray shower that hit the mothers of developed nations...

all at once.

Oh, except for the Amish. God must have spared the Amish.

[Odin2005]

27. Or maybe it's bcause Asperger's Syndrome was only recognized in the US in 1994?

:eyes:

[earth mom]

94. Not everyone with Autism has Aspergers.

People with Aspergers can at least function and hold jobs.

Many of these kids with Autism can't even talk or wipe their rear ends.

What we are looking at is an epidemic. Period.

[varkam]

76. That's sarcasm, right?

Because, you know, there is autism in Amish populations.

[defendandprotect]

68. Yep . . . soon their find a genetic cause for poverty . . . . . !!!

[varkam]

78. "soon their find a genetic cause for poverty"

:wtf:

[diane in sf]

72. A persons genetics interact with the environment they find themselves in.

[mod mom]

26. did you ever see the film "Blue Vinyl"? Not surprising.

[NeedleCast]

28. I hate this kind of "causality" stuff

I'm not even going to pretend I'm a scientist, but there seems to be no controls in this "study" beyond vinyl flooring.

[rucky]

36. Wasn't there something similar with vinyl siding a few years back?

I'll start the googling

[KittyWampus]

47. I know arsenic treated lumber ended up being toxic but don't recall what it triggered

[Maru Kitteh]

123. maybe arsenic poisoning.

dddddddddrrroooooooooooooooooool.

[ColbertWatcher]

59. "correlation is not the same as causation." Good point.

I'd also like to see who will run with this preliminary conclusion before all the facts are in.

[defendandprotect]

66. "Vaccines can overwhelm and confuse the immune system" . . .

Evidently, there may be many problems we're not totally aware of as yet with vaccines --
"from allergies to cancer" . . . ???????????????

MEANWHILE . . .

Maybe not even fit for dogs?

Veterinarians are also seeing these problems with animals getting vaccines ---

Holistic Animal Health: Vaccinosis
Health Hazard of Routine Vaccination: placing our animals at risk
Most pet owners aren't aware of the dangers in animal vaccinations that have been discovered in recent years. The major veterinary associations now agree that vaccinations can trigger all sorts of maladies, from allergies to cancer - but most pet caretakers (and many veterinarians, it seems) haven't gotten the word. "With vaccines that are repeated year after year, the frequency and severity of these side-effects in our pets has increased dramatically. Most of the problems involve the immune system. After all, the immune system is what vaccines are designed to stimulate. But they do so in a very unnatural way that can overwhelm and confuse the immune system." Dr. Donna Starita Mehan DVM

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm

Dr. Ronald D. Schultz, Ph.D..- "Annual revaccination provides no benefit and may increase the risk for adverse reactions. The percentage of vaccinated animals (those vaccinated only as puppies) protected from clinical disease after challenge with canine distemper virus, canine parvovirus and canine adenovirus in the study was greater than 95%." Current and Future Canine and Feline Vaccination Programs. Dr. Ronald Schultz is a Professor and Chair of the Department of Pathobiological Sciences at the School of Veterinary Medicine, UW-Madison. Schultz, R.D. - Current and Future Canine and Feline Vaccination Programs. Vet Med 3: No. 3, 233-254, 1998 more


Dr. Charles E Loops DVM - "The first thing that must change with routine vaccinations is the myth that vaccines are not harmful. Veterinarians and animal guardians have to come to realise that they are not protecting animals from disease by annual vaccinations, but in fact, are destroying the health and immune systems of these same animals they love and care for Homeopathic veterinarians and other holistic practitioners have maintained for some time that vaccinations do more harm than they provide benefits. Vaccinations represent a major assault on the body's immune system.... Vaccine induced chronic diseases range from life-threatening conditions such as auto-immune crises to conditions destroying the quality of life of an animal as in chronic skin allergies." more

Dr. Dee Blanco, D.V.M - "You take healthy animals and often very quickly after you vaccinate, you can see simple things like itching of the skin or excessive licking of the paws, sometimes even with no eruptions and licking of the air. We see a lot of epilepsy/seizure, often after a rabies vaccination. Or dogs or cats can become aggressive for several days. Frequently, you'll see urinary tract infections in cats, often within three months after their vaccination. If you step back, open your mind and heart, you'll start to see patterns of illness post-vaccination." (veterinarians have also observed vaccinosis symptom of severe inflammation of the tail)

[varkam]

80. Shirley's Wellness Cafe? I'm sold.

Screw the CDC and the FDA. If Shirley's Welness Cafe says it, you can take that to the bank.

[1776Forever]

69. "They" knew about this in 2003 - Read here: About phthalates and Our Stolen Future

About phthalates:

http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NEWSCIENCE/oncompounds/phthalates/phthalates.htm

What are the health concerns?

Much of the existing literature on phthalates' toxicological properties focuses on the old approach to toxicology: high level exposure for cancer endpoints, and occupational exposure leading to adult infertility. In the past several years, however, particularly led by Earl Gray's laboratory at the US Environmental Protection Agency, attention has turned to low-dose toxicity of phthalates during crucial windows of fetal development. As these studies have advanced, they have fundamentally changed our perception of potential health risks of phthalates....

The American Academy of Pediatrics entered the debate in June 2003, issuing a report in Pediatrics that recommends research on phthalates effects on the fetus and infants. Their review of the literature found that no studies had directly addressed this issue, yet animal research clearly documents harm and data from the US Centers for Disease Control shows widespread exposure.

........

Much more at this link. Why wasn't this reported on then?:shrug:

[Ellipsis]

81. If the out gassing from Phthalates is heavier then air and Kiddo is crawling around on the floor...

this makes sense.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

89. Impossible.

Vinyl floors don't contain thimerosal. And as you know, it is zealous opinionated FACT that thimerosal is to blame... didn'tcha know?

LOL

[earth mom]

95. I should have know you'd be on the side of the evil pharma giants.

Thank Gawd it passed and Thank Gawd the evil pharm giants poisoned these kids, ain't that right?! :puke:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

96. ROFLMAO!!!!!!

Hey, do you believe the Earth is flat too? You seem to have trouble letting go of old-time beliefs that have long since been shown to be irrational. :hi:

[TexasObserver]

90. The relatively sudden onset of autism the past decades suggest an enviro cause.

I don't know what it is these children or their mothers have been exposed to, but chemicals used for ordinary usuages seems a likely cause.

[defendandprotect]

91. Vaccines are now linked to the same kinds of illnesses in animals ---

and, yes, they would also be exposed to vinyl floors ---

but mercury has always been linked to problems for humans.

Maybe not even fit for dogs?

Veterinarians are also seeing these problems with animals getting vaccines ---

Holistic Animal Health: Vaccinosis
Health Hazard of Routine Vaccination: placing our animals at risk
Most pet owners aren't aware of the dangers in animal vaccinations that have been discovered in recent years. The major veterinary associations now agree that vaccinations can trigger all sorts of maladies, from allergies to cancer - but most pet caretakers (and many veterinarians, it seems) haven't gotten the word. "With vaccines that are repeated year after year, the frequency and severity of these side-effects in our pets has increased dramatically. Most of the problems involve the immune system. After all, the immune system is what vaccines are designed to stimulate. But they do so in a very unnatural way that can overwhelm and confuse the immune system." Dr. Donna Starita Mehan DVM

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm

See my msg #66 above--

[LeftishBrit]

106. Shirley's Wellness Cafe seems to be a very dubious site

It's not only anti-vaccine, but anti-allopathic-medicine in general. It encourages people with breast cancer to reject conventional medical treatment and go for alternative medicine; and ditto for AIDS. It spreads the HIV-denialist myths that have already contributed to the spread of HIV/AIDS in many countries of the world.

[varkam]

111. Why do you hate the poor autistic children and their parents? eom

[defendandprotect]

114. Maybe you've heard that America ranks 37th in health care . . . ?

Pretty much what we have is "slash and burn" medicine ---

Doctors push toxic stuff the drug companies are putting out ---

many creating serious side effects for which more medicine with more side effects

is recommended and on and on!

If vaccines are creating "allergies and cancers" should we ignore it?

Should Veterinarians ignore what they think is making animals sick?

Are we not permitted to be "anti-vaccine" . . . ?

We don't know what the actdual cause of AIDS/HIV was -- we certainly were active

in Africa dispensing the polio vaccine which was grown in monkey glands!

We also had Reagan who ignored AIDS and failed to get to work on it promptly.

We also have a Vatican and Catholic hospitals denying patients advice about condoms.

Further, we have the Vatican influence on the United Nations -- and right wing

influences on Bush which prohibited intelligent discussions re AIDS/condoms~!

If you don't like that particular website, follow the info and you'll probably

find it in other locations.

[Maru Kitteh]

125. You're probably right. Everyone in healthcare spends 7.5*10^4 +

on an education just so they can go out and MAKE PEOPLE SICK.

BRILLIANT.

Truth? Almost nobody who's in it for the money makes it through, but admittedly, a couple do. Those there for the money set up safe, simple, easy and very QUICK practices - worm their way into admin - and then consult.

[defendandprotect]

134. The insurance industry/corporations are running our private health care system . . .

in your mind, do corporations/capitalism spell "success" . . . ?

Perhaps you'd like to point to some of that in other areas?

Our medical system is based on self-selection and unfortunately many have entered

medicine for profit rather than old-fashioned notions that they had some proven talent

for healing people.

Doctors rarely understand the remedies given them by the medical industry -- we've had

doctors who had to have corporate representatives at their sides when installing new

fabricated body parts. We've had doctors largely unfamiliar with the actual side-effects

of medicines on their patients - and often ignoring what patients are telling them about

side-effects because ... "they don't appear on drug company warning re side effects"-!!

We have doctors wined and dined by drug companies and who knows how much more?

I've had a doctor give me a $125 antibiotic, though I asked for ampicillin.

It didn't work and went to another doctor who did give me $12 worth of ampicillin which

did work.

And I'm sure that anyone here at DU could give you many other examples of huge drug costs

and side effects.

[LeftishBrit]

129. America's problems with health care are due to the lack of a national health service

...not to vaccines.

Europaean countries, that come much higher on health care statistics, also vaccinate!

I agree about the pernicious influence of the religious right on AIDS prevention.

People are permitted to be anti-vaccine because of dislike of the drug compnaies, just as they are permitted to be anti-condom on religious grounds; but I consider the two pretty similar: both allowing ideology to trump health needs.

[defendandprotect]

135. As we have moved our vaccines into European countries . . .

their autism rates have increased.

Yes, we do need a national health care system based on prevention -- not cures.

And, we don't have to reinvent the wheel -- simply remove age restrictions from Medicare

and we're set to go! Rep. Conyers has a bill on that -- ask your Senators/Reps to

sponsor it.

People are permitted to be anti-vaccine because of dislike of the drug compnaies, just as they are permitted to be anti-condom on religious grounds; but I consider the two pretty similar: both allowing ideology to trump health needs.

No, people who question and challenge the drug companies re vaccines do so because of concern
for children and our futures. And veterinarians are questioning the vaccines because of
concerns for animals.

On the other hand, I do question our corporate-medical system which I consider as reckless and
profit-driven as any other field where unregulated capitalism is in control -- including drug
companies.

Additionally, from what I see of the intelligent questions and challenges to the vaccine issue -
many of whom are parents -- many who are our soldiers -- their concerns arise from personal
experience. Others who have joined the questioning are bringing their own personal intelligence
to the issue -- and not something dictated by a "god" and delivered to them by middle-men!

[Maru Kitteh]

124. SHIRLEY'S fuckin' "wellness cafe" ??????? OMG

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[defendandprotect]

136. Obviously, the veterinarians work and vaccinate animals there ....

and doctors develop their research and concerns about vaccines there --

Look around and you'll find soldiers there who have gotten ill from these vaccines --

and parents of autistic children are laughing with you, I'm sure.

You're on ignore --

[earth mom]

93. Puhleeze. They are reaching for straws now.

The majority of parents noticed the onset of Autism AFTER vaccinations.

Quit lying you mo fos! :grr:

[SidDithers]

99. The majority of parents noticed the onset of Autism...

around the time their kids stopped wearing diapers.

That proves that diapers prevent autism.

Sid

[LeftishBrit]

105. The majority of parents notice the onset of autism..

at the age whan most children start talking; communicating by gesture; demonstrating some social skills - and those with autism sadly don't.

Thus, the parents tend to notice the symptoms of autism in the second year of life, as that is when most children show a big advance in communication and social skills. It also happens that the MMR vaccine is given at around 15 to 18 months - hence it *happens* to be at about the same time.

[defendandprotect]

138. Thank you, LeftishBrit --

Glad you had the patience to actually respond to him --

From what I've read, these children are bright and highly developed when this strikes
them - as they receive the vaccines.

It's embarrassing that a few here find humor in this subject --

Rather, I would hope that these huge increases in autism would bring more concern,

more questions and challenges in hopes of protecting our own families and other families

from such life-destroying outcomes.



:)

[LeftishBrit]

144. It is not true in most cases...

that autistic children are 'bright and highly developed' and then suddenly regress.

There are cases of regression, but they're rare. Most children with autism have shown unusual characteristics from the beginning, but they become much more obvious when they reach an age when communication and social skills are expected.

And yes, I know several children with autism. None of them suddenly regressed after normal development. None of their parents think that their problems are due to vaccines.

I also know someone who is seriously physically disabled as a result of catching whooping cough in infancy. The diseases against which we vaccinate are not trivial!

[defendandprotect]

149. As you have noted, it is "rare" . . ..

From what I've read of these events, as told by parents, these are normal, healthy children
IN THE MAIN until the time the vaccinations are given.
They have also been being given in "batteries" which signals another problem area.

And, again, from what I've read described -- by parents themselves -- without exception, it
has been an immediate and day to night change in the child.

Happily, I don't know any children with autism. But within the family we have had two
newborns and it is always a concern, IMO, for every family.

I don't think anyone suggests that the diseases are "trivial." What I, personally, am
suggesting is that we don't know what the short-range nor long-range costs of these "cures"
may be. And, while I have never been naive about our medical industry based on profit,
I think much has happened in the Bush/Cheney era which has even worsened that situation by
large degrees.

I don't think either that we can dismiss how often our government has made our soldiers ill.
Including with vaccines. And, again, we have new examples of vaccine-centered problems
coming from the veterinarians reporting on similar illnesses in animals, after vaccinations.

It's rather ironic that we regularly use animals to test products/drugs -- "canaries in the
coal mines" -- but when vetinarians are bringing this to our attention we want to ignore it!

Even sadder, we grew the polio vaccine in monkey glands in Africa which opens the question
of the true nature of the spreading of HIV/AIDS there.

[Mamacrat]

140. DTaP and SIDS

Actually, many children with autism do develop those skills, but completely lose them. It's really bizarre to see videos of a completely developing child who has lost those skills. So, what causes a child like that to lose those skills? Something does!

I've also read about a correlation between the DTaP and SIDS. I read about this correlation long after our son had an extreme reaction to the vaccine. Long after the vaccine and a good nap he woke crying to the point we thought he would pass out. We took him to the pediatrician's office where they just watched him for a while. He has suffered autism-like problems (e.g. sensory, feeding) except for the social problems. He's since been diagnosed with "delay in myelination" (myelin covers nerves) and his myelination is not even that of a two-year-old. We've been told a toxin could have caused this delay or lack of myelination. Our pediatrician uses vaccines that are thermisol-free. So, what did cause his extreme reaction to the DTaP? What has caused his delay in myelination? We have not given him the PCV nor the MMR, which we would consider when he's developed completely. I can't imagine any other toxin that could have caused this problem except the bottles. But, while I now know the particular bottles are bad there are millions using them who are fine.

I wonder in the case with the vinyl flooring was it that or is there a difference in cleaners those parents used or even that vinyl holds certain toxins in it once they are on the flooring that other types of flooring do not?

[defendandprotect]

137. More humor . . . ?

If I had to bet on this being an object of humor ...

it would have been one of the last subjects I would have picked!

[Mamacrat]

141. Autism Every Day

Have you seen the documentary Autism Every Day on the Sundance channel: http://www.autismspeaks.org/press/autism_every_day_sundance.php? It's very good.

[defendandprotect]

142. Unfortunately, I don't get Sundance . . .

I'm thinking of unloading Comcast and moving to Verison -- we actually have
two choices now! Mainly because Comcast took the Senate out of basic more than
a year ago now.

It's invaluable, IMO, to see exactly what parents of these children go thru, but
I also think that most of us should be able to understand how difficult this is for
any parent of an autistic child. Cripes, it's hard enough to take care of a well child!
Trying to make fun of any part of this problem is outrageous.

I'm saddened to read that your child is suffering some of these problems.
I think our current for-profit medical system makes it much more difficult to find
out the causes of these problems -- and also increases the chance that we will have
problems.

I hope all of this will change for the better soon!




:)

[Mamacrat]

147. I'm not sure they can understand.

So many problems are unseen in a way that I think it's hard for parents to fathom how difficult it can be, even with a child who does not have autism, but many of the same symptoms. It was heartbreaking to watch a child in that film who had a meltdown because her mother wanted her to get on a swing. My child would not swing until he was almost three years old. People don't understand that he'd never get on a swing, not just on that occasion they were seeing. Of course, it's "easy" to pass by a swing, but when it comes to eating a child has to eat. Our son will be four next month and has just mastered chewing and moving food around in his mouth. He's not getting most of his nutrition from solids, but it's such a step forward. Those are just good examples of problems people just don't realize are problems every single day all the time, not just a child having a meltdown that day because they don't want to swing or that they never eat solid food, not that they are just having a snack-like meal (nutritional supplement box and/or other non-solid foods) at that particular meal.

I'm so grateful our son does not have autism, but because his symptoms are so much like it I do follow the issue a bit. I feel like he's close to the continuum, but not on it. And I wonder what caused it?!

Oh, I did read in that article from the original post that one theory is that because children with autism have sensory issues (we used to brush our son for part of his therapy to get him used to textures, which also translates into being able to accept them in the mouth to eat) that they would prefer the vinyl flooring instead of carpeting. Not sure if that means they spent more time on the flooring and were exposed to something (cleaning products) instead of on the carpeting (just vacuuming) or that it just contributed to the correlation.

[defendandprotect]

150. Clearly, it is unlike ....

any experiences we have as parents of healthy children.
And hope that things will improve for you and your son.

As I've said before, I was never naive about our medical system ...
I recall more than 10 years ago the FDA became aware of the links
between a lack of folate in the diets of females and neural cord
disorders -- including Spina Bifida. Folate is available from fresh
vegetables,leafy greens, fruits, etc.

At any rate, the FDA did nothing to advise females and families of this
link - no education program. They were finally sued by Physicians for
Responsible Medicine and ultimately they added folic acid to flour.

However, as far as I am aware, they have still not run an education
campaign on this issue. I mention it as often as possible to other
women, especially if they have young daughters.

It also has a 10% connection to Down's Syndrom and is connected to some
other diseases seen in newborns.

As sad as FDA behavior has been in this instance, I think its corruption
has been even more severe during the Bush years.



The FDA

Folate is a water-soluble B vitamin that occurs naturally in food. Folic acid is the synthetic form of folate that is found in supplements and added to fortified foods.
Some foods are fortified with folic acid, cereals, flours, etc. <1>.

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/984001430.html

[varkam]

110. A Logic Book.

You should probably read one if you have some free time.

[jmowreader]

143. Is there a link between lead and autism? If so, there's your answer

Vinyl contains metallic stabilizers--either lead or tin--to keep it from breaking down after manufacture.

[Mamacrat]

148. Toxins

Well, I was told that our son's delay in myelination (he does not have austism, but many autism-like problems) could have been caused by an exposure to a toxin. However, in our case we do not have vinyl flooring and his lead levels were fine. I have a step-nephew who had similar problems, although not autistic, and he was tested for metals and found his mercury levels were very high. He was to be in a study on children with high metal levels, but after his family followed some of the suggestions for the problem his levels went down so quickly he was out of the study. I think that says a lot that he was a middle child of three who all lived in the same home, yet he was the only one to suffer these type of problems. I think some children are just more susceptible to the damage by toxins of any type, possibly even vaccines for some reason, even those without thermisol.