OK, Suppose GM got bailed out. Then what?

[Speck Tater]

Sure, that would save thousands of job. But jobs doing what, exactly? Building more cars? The pipeline is already clogged with excess inventory that isn't moving. What in God's name would be the point of building more cars when they can't even sell the ones they've already built?

The point is, like Kunstler so often reminds us, the era of the personal automobile is drawing to a close as the productivity of the world's oil fields continues to decline at an ever increasing rate.

Bailing out GM is NOT just about saving jobs. It's also about subsidizing up the continued rape of the environment for no rational reason. GM is a gasping dinosaur. Let it die in peace. Yes, it's too bad about the jobs. BUT, those jobs WILL be lost anyway. If not today, then 6 months from now when it becomes even more obvious that there is no rational reason for GM to even exist any more.

[liberal N proud]

1. If they bailed out the auto companies they would have to send 10x to the banks

[Hannah Bell]

2. GM isn't a gasping dinosaur. It's gaining market share everywhere but in the US, &

59% of its profits come from overseas.

Funny how it can make popular cars in Europe, Asia & Latin America/Africa, but not at home.

[Speck Tater]

4. They have consistently made BAD choices.

This is NOT a recent phenomenon brought on by the financial crisis. This debacle has been years in the making.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5871495968130273402

[Hannah Bell]

10. who killed the electric car has nothing to do with my point.

[flvegan]

3. Free Corvettes for everyone!!!

[Historic NY]

6. make mine mellow yellow..

[spoony]

5. So much "lol"worthy content in one post!

"the era of the personal automobile is drawing to a close"

This is simply ridiculous.

"Bailing out GM is NOT just about saving jobs. It's also about subsidizing up the continued rape of the environment for no rational reason."

Yeah, that's written right there in GM's plea: "help us keep raping earth." And for no rational reason, expect transportation of people and goods. Why can't everyone ride a donkey like you?

"GM is a gasping dinosaur. Let it die in peace."

The first part of this has been capably dealt with by another poster. As for peace, I assure you that's the last thing this country will see if it lets its manufacturing base collapse.

"Yes, it's too bad about the jobs. BUT, those jobs WILL be lost anyway."

Not only is this wrong because it's based on your first ridiculous assertion that there will be no personal vehicles soon, it's also wrong because of its cold anti-human luddite heartless sentiment.

[tama]

7. But

you are not really laughing, with all that posturing for a condescending lol. You are just uninformed and/or in denial.

[spoony]

8. I'm going to need more than a superficial dismissal

Tell me exactly where I'm wrong. Do you think cars are going bye-bye?

[tama]

11. It's obvious that they are going bye-bye

Conventional oil peaked in 2005, all liquid fuels peaked, as it very credibly seems, in 2008. Mileage driven globally dropped and dropping big way. If there comes a bull market and boom cycle after this depression, it will be very short-lived because it will hit the energy ceiling and after that... all hell brakes out...

Changing the whole automobile infrastructure from combustion engine dependent to electric engine and/or fuel cells is way too tall task in the time frame available, if at all doable given that the EROEI for available energy resources is now dropping and has been for quite a while. No doubt some vehicles of various tehnologies will be around for quite a while, hopefully for most vital and usefull purposes instead of extravaganza of the elites, but the car culture as way of life is a gonner. Same for aviation of course.

And plastics. And everything else made from oil.

If a new technological civilization rises from the ashes of this one, it will be very different, not growth and consumption based but resource based.

[Speck Tater]

9. Obama Should Tell Americans That the Days of Happy Motoring Are Over: James Howard Kunstler

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/02/obama-should-tell-americans-days-of-happying-motoring-are-done-kunstler.php
--quote--

Recently Lloyd pointed out how public transit is getting shortchanged by the stimulus plan. Last week James Howard Kunstler rather more verbosely expounded on the same issue, and pretty much nailed it. We in the United States really have to have up the fact that as Kunstler would put, the days of happy motoring are over (good riddance) and we need to move on to something else. “Mr Obama needs to go on TV and tell the American public that we’re done cruisin’ for burgers.” Here’s part of what Kuntsler posits we ought to be doing instead on spending more money on highways:

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/2009/01/state-of-cringe.html
--quote--

I know it is difficult for Americans at every level to imagine a different way-of-life, but we'd better start tuning up our imaginations, because endless motoring is not our destiny anymore.

-----

The vast majority of Americans still have their heads firmly in the sand where peak oil is concerned. The fossils fuel bubble has been going strong for 150 years, but it is getting close to bursting, and once it does, the automobile will be a luxury item that only very few will be able to afford to operate.

Believing that things can continue as they have in the past is nothing but denial of the reality of finite resources.

[On the Road]

12. Car Sales are Not Going to Stay Down by 40-50% YoY

Demand will rebound at some point. GM is in a good enough position to be a viable company for the long haul.

[Deja Q]

16. With everyone scared shitless about their jobs right now? With $12/hr jobs that can't pay ****?

It'll rebound, in a few decades and in the CEOs' dreams...

[On the Road]

19. In a Few Decades?

we're not to become Cubans driving 50-year-old vehicles around. Cars wear out and need to be replaced.

[Romulox]

13. Pssst. A Toyota V8 is not better for the environment than a GM V8

We aren't talking about the "death of the personal automobile"--we are talking about the death of producing the personal automobile as a means of supporting a family.

The car ain't going anywhere.

[Speck Tater]

14. The monkey trap.

The monkey sticks its hand into the coconut to grab the tasty treat. But once it's grabbed the treat, it can't get it's fist out of the hole in the coconut. So it sits there until it becomes monkey-meat stew. It can't conceive of letting go of the treat it has in it's fist. Once it has the treat it feels entitled to the treat.

The American consumer can't conceive of the FACT that the happy motoring way of life is rapidly going obsolete, so like monkeys with their fist in the trap, they sit there, trying to hold onto what they can't, realistically, have, until the gruesome end sneaks up on them. After all, Americans are entitled to their cars.

But the sad reality is that delaying the inevitable demise of the personal automobile doesn't do anybody any good. Somehow people have to get from denial to acceptance instead of trying to prop up something that cannot, in the long run, be propped up. In 25 to 50 years personal automobiles will be a very high-end luxury item produced by no more than two or three small specialty motor car companies. The majority will get around either via mass transit, or on scooters, bikes, horseback, or on foot.

I know it's hard to imagine the U.S. going back to 19th century transportation, but no amount of denial is going to prevent that from happening, and sooner than most can imagine.

[Romulox]

15. Oh brother... nt

[Speck Tater]

17. Your response proves you are in denial, but does not refute the facts. nt

[DainBramaged]

18. So, do you work for Senator Shelby or Corker????

[Chisox08]

20. GM will not be allowed to fail.

Too many American jobs would be directly impacted by the failure of GM. I'm not just talking about GM employees. Look at Flint and Detroit Michigan, both cities has been devestated by the loss of jobs. The failure of GM not only would devestate Michigan but the rest of the mid-west. Think about the workers who would have lost their job instead of the greedy CEO's who ran it into the ground.

[Historic NY]

21. I'm not giving up my internal combustion machines...love affair with the car over..

no way, no how. I'm building or rebuilding one of my old 47/48's now with modern componets.