My 6-Year Old Gets Rousted Out of Bed at 5:30 Every Morning

[Mr. Ected]

The school bus picks him up at 6:10.

We have compulsory physical education.

The breakfast and lunch menus at school are highly regulated and purportedly nutritional.

And yet sleep deprivation seems to be perfectly acceptable.

Of course, we put the little guy in bed at 8:00. But it's still not enough. He's sporting dark circles under his eyes at this point in the school year.

Speaking with other parents, they seem to take it as a badge of honor that they are able to extricate themselves from bed so early. They don't find a 5:30 am wake-up call for children detestable in the least.

I'm interested in hearing from you - are we wimps, or should we be outraged?

[DS1]

1. That's outrageous

I could barely catch the 8:10 bus :eyes:

(which I only took during hurricane, tornado, or werewolf outbreaks)

[Sultana]

92. Werewolf outbreaks?

Do tell....:evilgrin:


Jking

[Ken Burch]

122. Wouldn't you only face the werewolves if you were in night school?

n/t.

[Dora]

2. I think that's an appalling wake up time for a boy that young.

Does he have nap time at school?

[Mr. Ected]

3. No - He's in Kindergarten - No Nap Time

Appalling. That's what I think too.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

7. Shouldn't 6yo be 1st grade?

[Mr. Ected]

15. August Birthday. Borderline First Grader. We Held Him Back

And played and colored and allowed him to be a little guy for an extra few months.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

21. I like that. He seems to be lucky to have you as a parent.

Do you see any way out of the morning conundrum? Maybe go to a doctor and get an official-sounding assessment those hours are not good for his health?

[Ilsa]

46. Good idea. My son's birthday is in late July, and he is small for his age

to begin with.We held him bad in third grade because he wasn't mature enough to go on.

First graders need naptime. There may be a state requirement for it. Check with the school district.

6:10 pick up by the school bus is outrageous. The local pediatricians need to step in. 8pm is a good bedtime for a regular 6 yo kids' schedule of starting class at 8am, IMO.

I take my kids to school every morning because their bus would have to pick them up before 7am if they rode it to school. That is too long of a day for little kids.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. They did away with naps in kindergarten about 20 years ago

Kindergarten is watered down first grade.

[RayOfHope]

128. In case you're notbeing sarcastic, not all did. Every full day K around here has rest time n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

138. That is very unusual

No naps at any schools in my state, unless they want to violate state guidelines.

[Hippo_Tron]

165. I remember naps in kindergarten, evereybody was too hyper to sleep

[dkofos]

4. You're wimps.

But you do have other choices.

[Mr. Ected]

75. Please Tell Me: WHAT Other Choices?

Private schools in the area start at $15K.

Home school is an option but not a viable one for us at this time.

What other options were you driving at?

[The Doctor.]

161. It's not entirely the time at which he gets up that affects him adversely,

it's the total amount of continuous sleep he gets.

Children that age still need 9-10 hours a night. If he's going to bed at 8pm, hopefully falling asleep quickly, and then getting up at 5:30 am, then he is getting just about 9 hours. That simply may not be enough, especially if his days are quite eventful. It's also possible that his sleep cycling is being interrupted. Cycles complete at 20 minute, 2 hour, and 4 hour intervals with some variation from person to person. When a cycle begins and is interrupted before completion, it can knock the neurophysiology out of whack and produce the same sort of symptoms that overall lack of sleep does. Perhaps adjusting bedtime one way or another by merely 10-15 minutes might help. But I would recommend you consult your family physician rather than simply go on what some guy on the internet tells you.

2 of my 3 kids went to bed consistently at 9pm from age 3-7 and got up at the crack of 5am, every day, regardless of schedule. My wife and I debated on whether or not to keep them up later just so we didn't wake up to various disasters if we decided to be 'lazy' and sleep in until 6am.

Around here, the school system bumped their start time back an hour to 9am. It's only been 2 years, but so far they've seen great improvement in grades and attendance.

It varies from child to child, and the school system, though not perfect, has to try to create a schedule that works best for the community.
If it's an issue, bring it up to the school board at a meeting and see if you can't get a petition together. If enough parents feel that it would be better to push the start time back a bit, then it might just happen.

Either way, good luck. I'm sure your little guy will do fine... especially when summer gets here.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. My brain hurts just READING that.

Schools in Brazil work in two shifts, morning and afternoon. I made a point of putting both my kids in the afternoon shift, or they'd have to be up about that time too. I know how that feels like. It's painful.

By the way -- PE every day? It's three times a week here.

[Duer 157099]

6. Frankly, anything mandatory before 10am is outrageous

This world revolves around the morning people, it seems.

Kids should be allowed to sleep as much as their bodies need, imho. But then so should everybody.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

10. A. Fucking. MEN.

[Sal Minella]

29. Think it was Mark Twain who said, Anything that happens before noon can just

darn well happen again later.

Unfortunately the early-morning insomniacs seized control of the world and the rest of us just have to cope -- i.e. bank is already closed for the day by the time I get there, etc.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

32. Mark Twain

was on the right side of just about any subject I can think of.

[Sal Minella]

34. Personal fave: "You can straighten out a worm, but the crook is still in him."

[WI_DEM]

50. I think Benjamin Franklin had it right when he said, "Early to bed, early to rise makes a man

healthy, wealthy and wise." :)

[kimmerspixelated]

57. Ben is the best, by all means, however,

Kids need their sleep! Why can't they have gym during regular classes?

[Ikonoklast]

72. Ben drank a lot, too.

Never talked about that too much, though.

[Sal Minella]

88. I believe he also had a pretty red-haired mistress when he was in France

in his later years, but we don't hear too much about that, either, for some reason. I think he just may have mellowed a bit as he got older.

[Xithras]

114. You know, that puts a whole new perspective on Ben's old saying.

Early to bed, early to rise, keeps a man healthy, wealthy, and wise.

And he dated young redheads you say? Hmmm...

[Toucano]

151. Right. I've decided he was being sarcastic about the

early to bed thing.

Or he was trying to get men to go to sleep sooner so he'd have a better chance at getting to their wives. LOL!

[Sheltiemama]

86. Ben didn't copy edit for a morning newspaper.

[InvisibleTouch]

53. I have that problem too.

Stuff is closed by the time I'm finally functional enough to be productive. Bah.

[Sequoia]

97. We have Ben Franklin to thank for that.

Early to bed
Early to rise
Makes a man
Healthy, wealthy, and wise.


NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[G_j]

115. years ago I listened to Nam June Paik talk, inventor of the video synthesizer

http://www.paikstudios.com/

He grew up in Japan, and talked about how hard getting up early was for him.
It wasn't until he came to the US (60s), that he found the creative freedom to sleep late,
and invent at night.

[FourScore]

123. I'm a Mom of three, and yes, 5:30 is too early.

Unfortunately, there isn't anything you can do to change it. Try to take solace in the fact that kids working on farms in earlier generations would get up earlier than that and they survived. Still...

My kids get up at 6:45 and they are in bed by 8:00, 8:30 at the latest. If I were you, I'd move bedtime up at least one hour (which of course means moving the entire evening routine up an hour). I know that is easier said than done (especially with daylight savings), but I think you have no choice. He needs at least 9-10 hours of sleep at his age, and most kids don't fall asleep right away. I know if we shoot for 8:30 bedtime at my house, then my kids are ASLEEP by 9:00.

Good luck with it.

[BadgerKid]

31. The morning has its advantages.

No waiting, no lines, no traffic, a sense of having accomplished something before most people wake up, etc.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. No traffic?

In Rio and São Paulo, at least, early morning (5-7ish) is the pinnacle of traffic jams.

There's no way in hell it isn't like that in some major American cities too.

[DS1]

43. Nobody who slept through your accomplishment really cares

It's unnatural to be up before the sun.

[Wednesdays]

159. Not only that,

it seems a lot of people want to force others to "enjoy" that "sense of accomplishment." :eyes:

[SoCalDem]

62. Night-owl here.. I enjoy grocery shopping at 1AM

no lines, easy to find a parking place..:P

[SmileyRose]

107. I've been on both ends of this equation.

before 10am and after 9pm is good shopping most of the time. Although as the economy toughens up I'm finding more and more of my go to places are only open from 10 to 7.

[SoCalDem]

108. I have a real problem looming.. jury duty.. I fall asleep at 7AM

and of course if I have to actually go, it will be an 8AM call.:scared:.. so I will have to just miss a sleep cycle & hope I can stay awake in the jury/ cattle-call room..and then make it home in my car without falling asleep ..

[SmileyRose]

111. oiy!! a suggestion

if you at all can, take the day before you have to be there off work and stay up 24 hrs so you are drop dead exhausted at "normal" bedtime. That's the only way I could ever do it when I was doing the swing shift thing. I had to go from night shift to day shift, meaning getting up when I normally went to bed.

You have my empathy.

[Ilsa]

49. Especially high school students. Their pineal gland dictates

their bodies' circadian rhythm, and it normally shifts them to late, late night and sleeping until later in the morning. It's biology.

[muriel_volestrangler]

131. There's a head teacher in Britain who wants to change his timetable to allow for that

Head urges lie-ins for teenagers

Teenage pupils should be given an extra two hours in bed to boost their learning abilities, a Tyneside head teacher has urged.

Dr Paul Kelley, of Monkseaton High School in North Tyneside, said continuous early starts created "teenage zombies" in the classroom.

He said research showed allowing teenagers to begin lessons at 11am had a "profound impact" on learning.
...
This suggested young people's body clocks may shift as they begin their teens - meaning teenagers got up later not because they were lazy, but because they were biologically programmed to do so.
...
Dr Kelley hopes school governors will approve a new timetable before the start of the next school year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7932108.stm

[Matariki]

95. "This world revolves around the morning people, it seems" - you said it!

I'd love to see the uproar if I tried to schedule 7:30pm meetings at work - yet many people have no compunction scheduling 7:30am meetings. Apparently 'am' is higher ground than 'pm'. Go figure.

[Dappleganger]

100. No, that's bullshit.

And the beginning of laziness.

There are things we need to do in life and getting up is one of them. Now if you want to live like that, then pull them out of school and homeschool them at your own leisure.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

139. No, THAT is bullshit and stupidly judgemental............

People are not all created the same, and their bodies don't all work the same. Why try to shove someone onto a mold in which the plainly don't fit, just for the sake of some silly work-a-day zeitgeist.

If you like getting up at 5AM, getting your day done, then hitting the sack at 8-9PM? Great. But don't criticize folks who don't fit into that mold. I imagine I get just as much done in an average work-day as most folks, I just choose to shift the window a little later. But using your criteria, I must be lazy.

[CreekDog]

156. a kid not catching the bus at 6:10am is laziness?

are you crazy? :crazy:

[Thothmes]

102. but that will not condition them to punching the time clock

with the starting whistle at 8am. in our business oriented society.

[orleans]

127. i so agree. and with a yawn (at 5:45 in the morning) i'm off to bed. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

8. Insanity. I saw kids in a bus pulling into high school at 7:15. I would have died. nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

147. The High Schools here start classes at 7:30AM and it drove me crazy with both of my sons.

Trying to wake teenagers about every morning at 6AM was one of the cruelest things I had to go through.

[Kalyke]

9. Is there anyway that one of you could take him to school?

If he were a "car rider," then he might not have to leave so early. Even if you had to be at work at 8 a.m., couldn't you drop him off at 7ish for the breakfast hour?

I don't know your school's start times, so I could be off base. Just asking.

[Mr. Ected]

78. When Possible, We Do Drive Him To School

Gets him an extra 30 minutes of sleep. As well as his parents. :-)

[carlyhippy]

11. insanity...for a 6 year old

my kid was in figure skating and we had to get her up and get her to her 6:00 a.m. practice 3 times a week, but she was in high school, she was falling asleep during class, still had homework to do after school, that only lasted a year, and we put a stop to it, it was nuts. I feel for you, that is too early for a little one, little kids still need alot of sleep, does he get any kind of nap during the day? I know I would need one if I had to get up that early.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Nine and a half hours of sleep isn't enough?

[MrsMatt]

19. It really isn't

http://www.drpaul.com/behaviour/sleep.html

[Kadie]

13. When my son was 6, the school nurse would say in the newsletter

that kids that age need between 11-12 hours of sleep a night. It is very difficult to make sure they get the sleep they need and still enjoy a life beside school and homework.

[DBoon]

40. Sounds like perfect preparation for the working world

in the USA at least.

[SacredCow]

14. I really do feel sorry for kids these days....

Granted, they have a lot of technology that I didn't have growing up, but their lives are WAY too hectic... A friend with 4 kids was telling me about her typical week- "well, kid 1 has soccer on these days, and kid 2 has piano on these days, and kid 3 has karate on these days, and kid 4 has baseball on these days, and kid 2 and 4 has catechism on these days, and kid one and 3 has catechism on these days..... etc, etc, etc..." :banghead:

And she was shocked when I asked her, "Well, when do they actually get to be KIDS?"

[cyberswede]

16. Would an earlier bedtime help?

I think kids that age need at least 10 hours sleep a night. Maybe you could bump bedtime to 7:30?

My 6 year old is a crabby appleton if she isn't in bed by 7:30 (and she doesn't get up until 6:15). It's harder with my 8 year old - he doesn't like to go to bed when it's still light outside. :) I do have him in bed by 8:00, though, and let him read for 15-20 minutes - that ususally does the trick.

Early bedtimes are a pain, especially since we don't even get home until 5:45 or 6:00. That's not much time to eat dinner, do homework, have a bath, and have some play time & reading before bed.

Good luck to you!

[woodsprite]

39. I'm amazed you can get all that done in that short amount of time.

We get home at 5:30 / 6:00, then I start dinner while my 8yo get a bit of play time in either alone or with his dad/sister. By 6:30/7:00 we're done eating dinner and are just starting on homework.

His teacher thinks she teaching college, when they're all really a bunch of 3rd graders. She says she tells them their homework once at the beginning of the week, the are expected to write it down and pace themselves to have it done to turn in on Friday. The only thing is, she sends home a whole bunch of other crap that's not on the homework agenda, and the reading instructor may or may not add excercises or reading to that.

His typical week's worth of homework is: read for 20 min. each night, write a paragraph about a book he's read, write his 20 spelling words 10 times, write a sentence for each, study his 10 vocabulary words, finish 2-3 math sheets, plus a 'speed' math sheet (add, sub, mult, or div). This week it was a short week with no adjustment to the homework, but she sent home an essay to be done Monday night - "write 5-6 paragraphs about some fun things in your life".

There are ALOT of tears spilled over homework at our house.

[LuckyLib]

45. That homework schedule is ridiculous. Homework should be interesting, meaningful, and cause

children to have to interact with family members, the environment, a pet, or a book. All that busy work is meaningless, an adult teacher's agenda. No wonder so many kids hate school.

[Control-Z]

56. All the homework assigned

to my kids, beginning in grade school, has been the single biggest obstacle in their learning and success in school. Two to three hours of homework every night, depending on their individual pace. It was usually four hours for my youngest, who is a rebel and hates homework so much that she pissed away half the time staring into space. (She now does independent study.)

Even my oldest, an outstanding student - recipient of the Presidential Academic Award, Geometry Award of Excellence, other various academic awards - hated the homework. She felt it was a waste of her time, and it was one of the main reasons (along with being bored in the classroom) that she finished High School in two years. (We had a lot of arguments over her rushing the HS experience.)

I would much rather see more work being done in the classroom, and less assigned to do at home. There have been a lot of tears spilled at our house, as well.

[Odin2005]

59. IMO a lot of homework is a sign of a lazy teacher.

Which in my experience was the majority of them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Most school districts require homework because parents want it

The only reason I assign homework is because they make me. I really don't believe in it. And I NEVER count it as a grade. I just mark if it is done or not.

[Odin2005]

69. Oh, I know, I was meaning if there wasn't such requirements, we didn't have them at my school.

And without those requirements my experience was it was the mediocre teachers that gave the most homework.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. It still doesn't make sense

Why wouldn't a mediocre teacher want to keep kids busy and quiet by overloading them with work to do in class so the teacher can sit there and be mediocre and surf the internet while the kids are 'working'?

It takes effort on the teacher's part to plan homework and a mediocre teacher would never do any work h/she didn't have to do.

Now we don't have any teachers like this at my school. (Our principal would never allow it) But I have heard they do exist. :)

[Odin2005]

82. Yes, the mediocre teacher gives out tons of busywork, while good teachers actually TEACH.

That's my experience, anyway. A good teacher interacts with their students and gives interesting assignments that help you remember things while the mediocre teacher regurgitates stuff out of the textbook and gives out busywork derived from the teacher's materials that come with the textbook.

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. You're right

But I don't see them assigning a lot of homework cause that would be lots of extra work for the teacher.

[Odin2005]

84. Usually the lazy tachers would make US do the grading!

we would pass the assignment to another student, and the teacher would recite the answers so we could grade the other person's assignment! :crazy:

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. I have never once done that

I let the kids grade their own papers and I let them work together too. But it has never seemed right to me to let the kids grade each other's work. That's my job.

[Sheltiemama]

106. I remember doing that!

[Control-Z]

94. Exactly.

With the exception of higher math, perhaps. Putting in time for repetition may be necessary for some students. My older daughter was not one of the students who needed the extra time, in class or out. My younger daughter, OTOH, in one who does.

[roody]

110. I believe that writing those spelling words is a total waste of time

especially if they can already spell the word, unless they need handwriting practice. I would lodge a complaint. Tell her that they do not have any fun to write about since they are so overloaded with homework.

[knitter4democracy]

134. It's for the kinesthetic learners.

Auditory learners learn best by reciting the spelling out loud over and over. Visuals learn best by looking over the list over and over until they can see the words clearly in their mind. Kinesthetics learn best by writing it out over and over until they get the feel of the word into their hands.

[knitter4democracy]

133. My DD's in third grade and doesn't get anywhere near that.

When she was in the Catholic school here, her first grade teacher was like that. She got to the point that she hated reading--it was just work, never fun--and math, thinking she was "stupid in math". Thank God for her second grade teacher who turned her around on both of those. Now she complains that she doesn't get enough homework. :)

That teacher needs a talking-to. That's too much homework and too much pressure. As a former high school teacher in Catholic, college-prep schools, that all sounds like a recipe to make the kids hate school (except for a small few who really like that kind of stuff), hate reading, and hate math and turn them off at a young age to make high school hell.

[Sequoia]

98. What kid wants to go to bed when it's still light outside?

Poor little tykes.

[glitch]

17. Poor kids.

Not just for having to get up early, for all the artificial structure imposed on their young lives. I worry about their creativity when their lives are scripted from 5:30a to the 3 hours of homework nightly and team sports that end at 9p.
No free range kids left in America. Yes, you should be outraged.

[LibertyLover]

18. As the mother of a 6 year old girl, that is ridiculous

My daughter is in 1st grade. She goes to bed at 8 pm and gets up at 7 am. The school bus picks her up at 8:25, give or take a minute. She has gym and playground after lunch and is usually exhausted by the time she gets home. I can't imagine what it would be like having to get her up at 5 am, which given how slowly she operates in the morning is what we'd need to do to make sure she got breakfast and got on the bus at 6:10 am. Heck - I'd have to dress her and do her hair, while her father dashed downstairs to get her breakfast ready. And it would also mean that we would have to be up at 0 dark: 30 to make sure that we were dressed and ready to take her to the bus stop. Outraged isn't nearly a good enough word for what you should be in my opinion.

[rurallib]

20. Is this a public school? Does he go a full day?

this sure doesn't sound like any public school I have heard of.

[Mr. Ected]

76. Public School in the Wonderful Rouge State of Georgia

God help us all.

[TreasonousBastard]

22. Blow the damn place up-- 6 year old kids shouldn't be...

living in basic training.

6:10 bus for KINDERGARTEN???!!! That's child abuse.

[FLyellowdog]

23. Whatever made you think that school systems do things for the betterment of our youth?

They run on a budget...the $$$$ makes the rules.

This is not a healthy thing for your son. Google to see if you can find any references to student performance based on opening times for schools. I'll bet someone has done research in this area.

5:30 in the morning is waaaayyyyyy too early for your son to have to get up.

[aikoaiko]

24. Can you drive him to school yourself and let him sleep a little longer?

What time does he have to be at school?

[No.23]

25. "Early to bed, early to rise...."

Not that I believe good habits should be imposed on anyone, but...

It IS a good habit, nonetheless.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. People's biologic clocks are different.

I was forced to wake up early every day for many years, from the age of 10 up until the end of college. At the end, it wasn't any easier than at the beginning. Never became a habit. It doesn't work like, say, exercise does to the muscles.

[Evoman]

63. Hell yeah. I find it so freakin hard, even after years of training, to go to sleep before 1 am.

And even when I do, I NEVER have an easy time waking up before about 10, which seems to be the time I wake up naturally.

I spent most of my elementary, high school, and college years trying this "go to bed early" crap, and it just doesn't work.

[CreekDog]

158. "Makes a *MAN* healthy, wealthy and wise"!!!" a 6-year old is NOT A MAN you knucklehead

:banghead:

[Grey]

26. Silly, My kids were in bed at

7:00pm and got up at 6:00am, all by themselves. that was just our routine.
At times when I got up at 6:00am I would find them playing quietly in their room.
If he needs more sleep just put him to bed earlier.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. See #27. -nt

[Urban Prairie]

30. I was four years old when I started kindergarten

Didn't turn five until about three months later. There was no school bus service, so my mother drove me to the school and picked me up. My father took the bus to work. Can't remember anything more than the naps we took with pillows and pads on the classroom floor, the milk we drank from glass bottles, and playing with large cardboard bricks, but that was over 45 years ago. Doesn't make any sense that your child does not get to take a nap with his kindergarten classmates in the early afternoon.

[woodsprite]

35. I hate it, but it only affects my 15yo right now.

We are lucky that we live close to both schools and we pass them on our way to work. We have to wake our daughter at 5:30 to be at school by 7:00 (she's a teen and takes time for makeup and hair). If she rode the bus, she'd have to be alone in the dark at our bus stop by 6am, then ride around town for an hour as they picked up other kids. We also drive our son to elementary school on our way to work. Thankfully his doesn't start until 8:20.

What really makes me angry is if the kids who are walkers or who are driven are a minute late, they get detention after 3x during the course of the year. Mind you, this would be 8:20 or 8:21, the walker entrance automatically locks and only opens from the outside with a key card. Half the kids are still having breakfast in the cafeteria until 8:30. Even if it's an accident, flooded road or road construction, it's an unexcused late. A bus can stuck in the same traffic and pull in right as you're leaving, drop their entire load of kids off and none of them are considered 'late'.

Now THAT pissed me off! BTW, I'm from Delaware, where the state tree is the road construction lighting standard. :mad:

[snappyturtle]

36. Here is an article I think you will find interesting about sleep and

education of high school students. I don't know if the same has been done elsewhere for elementary students. I am wondering when your six year old is out of school. The study linked occurred in MN.

http://cehd.umn.edu/Pubs/Researchworks/sleep.html

[LuckyLib]

48. Some few districts in MN actually changed school start times for high schoolers, based on the

work of these researchers. The teachers found students more alert/awake, the kids/parents loved it, everyone was happy. Crack of dawn start times for teens are crazy, no reason why similar results wouldn't hold true for younger students.

This is all about $$$$$ -- rerouting the same school buses for 3 groups of kids, Not about what's best for the learners.

[snappyturtle]

55. Oh yes, they loved it! I lived in MN 15 years and during that time

this plan was tried. Having taught high schoolers, I know this would be good. Besides lots of hs students study late after all their extra curricular activities and home activities are done.

[benld74]

37. My 7 year old 1st grader gets up at 545-DAILY-Bed 8PM school bus part is what I donotlike

[mnhtnbb]

38. School hours for Chapel Hill/Carrboro City Schools (NC)

Elementary: 7:50 a.m.-2:30 p.m.

Middle School: 8:20 a.m.-3:10 p.m.

High School: 8:45 a.m.-3:50 p.m.


Our youngest used to catch the bus to elementary school just after 7 a.m. I think your elementary
school is starting very early. Do you live in farm country?

Our schools in Chapel Hill/Carrboro consistently rank among the best public schools in the country.
They seem to have taken the research to heart that indicates high school kids need to sleep later
and start school later. Many elementary students do better with more morning hours, but it seems
your school may have taken the early start to extremes.

[ogneopasno]

41. I think that's pretty bad. If my kids took the bus, they would have to be on it at 7 a.m., and we

live out in the boonies at the end of the route. So I think 6:10 is outrageous. I drive my kids in m'self.

[rvablue]

42. I'm guessing this is a private school, yes? So it would seem you have options if you don't like it.

[Mr. Ected]

80. Nope. Public School.

Kindergarten is taught in the elementary schools here, at least in our district.

[rvablue]

90. So, an early morning, full day, no nap time in kindergarten at a public school???

If that is your story, I'm not buying it.

Is this supposed to be some veiled allegory or something?

[roody]

112. That is what we have in California as well. Not so early though.

They are expected to learn to read now in Kinder also.

[proud2BlibKansan]

120. Kindergarteners stopped taking naps in my district 20 years ago

You better buy it :)

[Canuckistanian]

44. PE in Kindergarten?

Is it a Military Academy Kindergarten?

[Wednesdays]

162. Well, ya know...gotta train 'em early for the War on Terra

As the poster said above, preparing them for the American Workforce. Or for the Armed Forces.

[alarimer]

47. I blame Ben Franklin.

This whole "early to bed and early to rise" nonsense.

Some of us just do not do well as morning people. But those people (as others have observed) have hijacked the world with their notion that sleeping in is "lazy".

[InvisibleTouch]

51. I'm not even coherrent before about 10.

Can't imagine a daily 5:30 wake-up time anymore ... though I've had jobs when my wake-up time was 4:30, others when it was around 6, others when it was 9 at night. (The 9-at-night one was the most suited to my natural sleep/wake cycle. I totally loved that job.) I've had school days that started as early as 7:15, as both student and teacher. I guess it's possible to adjust to anything, but it sure is painful, even for an adult, and it's not healthy to force oneself to conform to an unnatural schedule. For a 6-year-old, I think a 5:30 wake-up and a school day that starts well before 7 is insane.

[Gormy Cuss]

52. The 6:10 AM pickup and no naps is ridiculous.

If the pick up must be that early, there should be a naptime.

However, until you have a better option you may need to put the little guy to bed much earlier -- 7:00 PM or arrange for naptime after school.

I

[ejpoeta]

54. that's just crazy!! especially for a six year old. my daughter gets on the bus at 8am

and she is one of the first ones on the bus. she gets to school at 8:45am. When she has chorus or whatever that makes her hae to be at school by 8, I could put her on the bus at 7am, but I take her up to the school because I don't want her to have to get up at 6 in the morning. (I don't want to have to get up at six either. LOL!) I know I am lucky I am just two minutes drive from the school. well, probably more than two minutes. your schedule is just insane!!!

[Odin2005]

58. It's because schools care more about after-school sports then the kids getting enough sleep.

When the issue comes up the response ALWAYS is "it will screw with after-school sports" every fucking time. No wonder are children don't learn anything, they are given the message that sports is more important than academics. The jocks are popular while the nerds are bullied, often by the jocks (who are not disciplined because punishing them would mean that the district is required to kick the bullies off the team).

I, frankly, have no respect for school sports. As far as I'm concerned they are not only a waste of money that could be better spend with *GASP* actually educating kids, they themselves interfere with academics as well.

[smellycats99]

60. i dont get it

hmmmm

[JerseygirlCT]

141. Yes, this definitely accounts for the HS around here

that an after school jobs.

I don't think it's an issue in elementary school though!

[On the Road]

61. I Agree with You

Sleep deprivation is serious, and it's not only the little kids. High school are not going to be going to bed at 8 or 9PM to get a full night's sleep.

The school day should start later. Period. It also eliminates some of the problems associated with after-school care and latchkey kids.

[Odin2005]

64. "But if class gets out at 6pm what about sports? SACRILEGE !11!!!11"

That's why it will never happen. The parents with the popular, pin-headed jocks will have a fit that the school district care more about educating then for giving their dimwit jock kid a chance to show off. School sports can go fuck itself.

[On the Road]

70. It Doesn't Have to End at 6PM

But 4-4:30 would be an improvement.

My daughter got out of high school at 2:20PM. There's no need for that. These schedules are being set by early birds who seem to think that it's good for kids to start at 7:30 regardless of how much sleep they get.

For that matter, I had corporate meetings this week which required us to be in the room at 7:15 and 7:30 on two consecutive days. Still recovering from that one.

[RayOfHope]

130. But you create child care problems in the morning, so it isn't solving any issues

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. You should be outraged

My elementary school starts at 7:10 so our kids are picked up as early as yours is. I know exactly what you are talking about and I find it horrible that we do this to our children.

[Lyric]

67. It's outrageous. We do our children a disservice by making them keep adult hours.

Their bodies don't function like ours. I know that MY school years were hell because my natural body rhythm was a "wake at 10 am, go to bed at 10:00 pm" deal. Instead, I was forced to go to bed two hours earlier than that (and usually just laid awake) and had to get up at 6:00 am because school started at 7:00.

I failed Algebra I because it was my first class of the day and my brain simply was not AWAKE enough to process that new, complex information when I was 12. When I took Geometry in 10th grade, the class was at 2:00 pm, and I effing ACED it. Got A's on every single test.

If we're going to force kids out of bed that early, then we should also use the early-morning hours for classes that involve expression rather than memorization and retention--think Phys Ed, Art, Music, Home Ec, etc. In fact, the not-quite-awake brain state could actually be a boon to arts classes, as the brain's dream mechanism might still be slightly engaged.

[Fireweed247]

71. and people wonder why some of us homeschool...

Just yesterday, our volcano blew and everyone knew the ash cloud was coming for us in a few hours. Did the school let the kids come home early? No they just let it hit, and the kids got out of school right when the ash was raining down. Cars, buses are not supposed to be on the road, very bad for engines etc. and of course it isn't exactly good to breathe either...

[Sheltiemama]

105. I pity the kids with breathing problems.

That's awful.

[Sequoia]

74. Outraged.

What the heck is this...London in the 1840s with children working at the mill? My kid starts high school next year and it starts at 7:30 freaking AM !! It's dark as heck outside when the bus comes at 7am.

[Emit]

77. What time does school start and how long is he at school or in afterschool care?

The reason I ask is that our elementary schools start at 9:00 and end at 3:00, but they recently juggled around the starting and ending times of the junior high schoolers' day to start at 7:30 or 8:00 due to the bus schedules. They now get out at 2:15 pm, which is the worst time for teens to be heading home - alone, imho. And imho, it's too early for them to start their studies too, because all kids need sleep and recent studies have shown that growing teens need a lot.

With regard to your OP, I can relate. I have 3 kids, and despite the fact that we have an okay start time, it seems that if it's not one thing it's another with after school activities/tutoring, trying to maintain their physical activities (we do not have mandatory PE - in fact we have no PE in our schools! Just recess), lots of homework, nightly required reading logs, special projects, clubs they've tried to join but usually can't maintain for lack of time, fundraisers for school, PTO meetings, juggling my work, my SO's two jobs, etc, etc, etc.

There just seems to be much more pressure and never enough time for anything. My kids have the dark circles, too, and never seem to get the sleep they really need. I feel for your little one.

[LWolf]

79. Neither.

I don't find a 5:30 wake up for anyone outrageous, as long as the sleeper got a full, restful period of sleep.

So no, I don't think it's "outrageous."

That's 9.5 hours of sleep for your 6 yo.

This site says, "Kids ages 6 to 9 need about 10 hours of sleep a night." While pointing out that there is no single number to fit all children of a particular age, which makes sense.

http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sleep/sleep.html

Here's another link that has some good points about how much sleep people need:

http://www.pobronson.com/blog/2007/10/on-question-how-much-sleep-does-my.html

Logically, if your kid needs more sleep, he should go to bed earlier. You could put him to bed half an hour earlier until he gets used to falling asleep at that time, give it a couple of weeks, and see if he still seems sleep deprived.

My grandson, age 9, slept 12 hours a night until he was about 6, then started dropping back until now, at age 9, he sleeps about 10 hours each night. Knowing that makes scheduling bedtime easy. We knew he was getting enough sleep when he started waking up BEFORE we went in to wake him.

Then again, such a simple, elegant answer as "go to bed earlier" doesn't take in to account other factors. So while a 5:30 wake up is not outrageous, that doesn't make you "wimps" either.

Body clocks are real, and some of the population tend to function better "early," and some "late," which makes sleep regulation more difficult when your schedule conflicts with your body clock. Not impossible, just more difficult.

Research is out there, and worth digging into. This guy has some interesting things to say about body clocks:

http://www.aimbe.org/content/index.php?pid=359

So no, if your son's, or your family's natural body clock runs counter to school schedules, you are not wimps.

If the bus is picking him up at 6:10, I'm wondering what time school starts. Does school start at 7am, or is he just spending way too much time on the school bus? If he's spending too much time on the bus, that's a transportation budget issue.

Many people aren't aware that school starting and ending times are dictated by the transportation schedule, which is, in turn, dictated by the transportation budget. Of course, the transportation budget is not considered as crucial to underfunded school districts as academically related items. Except that too-long bus rides affect academics.

I don't think that outrage about long bus rides is going to get you anywhere at this point. School budgets are terribly overstrained right now. All the districts in my region are closing school early this year, some by one day, some by 2 weeks, to deal with mid-year budget cuts from the state.

For now, you might consider dropping your son off at school yourself, if possible, thus cutting the transportation time and allowing more sleep.

When the economic crisis is over, it might be good to lobby your district to shorten bus rides, and your state to fully fund education.

Longer answer than you really wanted, huh? ;)

[SmileyRose]

109. Well thought and informative post.

I've sent it to my niece, who has a 7 yr old she's struggling with. The bus picks up at 6 and school starts at nearly 8. I just can't get it to click in her head that 4 hours a day on the bus for a 7 year old is the problem, not the school day and not the lack of sleep. We are trying to get dear niece, who MUST work, to call the school about allowing this child's grandma (my sister) to start contacting other parents at that school and see if carpools, chipping in for gas, can't be set up with someone who already takes the kids to school. The niece just is way too overwhelmed and tired to take it on herself.

[LWolf]

135. The carpool idea is great.

I hope it works out.

[GCP]

81. You should be outraged

Honestly, what schools are expecting from kids nowadays is ludicrous. I went to school in the UK, school started at 9.00 am for ALL grades, and ended at 4 pm. We got an hour off for lunch, which was cooked on the school premises and wasn't crap like pizza or chicken fingers.

[Sheltiemama]

85. There's a 5:30 a.m.?

The last time I saw it was in August, when I had a stomach virus. I get off work at 12:30 a.m. and get to bed between 3 and 4 a.m.

My mother drove me to school partly because it let both of us sleep later. She wouldn't let me be on the Safety Patrol because that meant getting up earlier, and she knew I'd hate that. She was right. I can't believe how early buses pick up children now.

[Sal Minella]

89. I saw a sunrise once. In the 'seventies.

Had stayed up all night helping a neighbor with her sick kids.

[Raine]

91. It 's RIDICULOUS

for a little kid to have to be up that early. :-(

[Matariki]

93. As a night person, I really, really REALLY hate this anachronism from the agricultural age

- that getting up early is somehow more virtuous than working later in the day.

A stupid prejudice that persists long after the invention of the light bulb and a shift to working indoors.

[eppur_se_muova]

96. Sounds like FL (Okaloosa, Walton counties).

School ran from 7AM to 3PM. Kids were bussed from all across the county to attend a central Jr. High or High school. Earliest pickups were before 6AM. Supposedly, the early hours were chosen because students wanted time to go to the beach in the afternoons. I suspect the real reason was cheap labor for local tourist traps.

Someone else asked if you lived in farm country. I ran into that when teaching college in rural GA -- morning classes were much taken for granted, as the local custom was to start the day early.

[Dappleganger]

99. This is stupid.

We have four kids and it was not uncommon for them to wake up at the crack of dawn on their own at that age (and many years before, and several years after). You are probably feeding him too much sugar, too many quick carbs, too many milk products and that's why he feels like crap w/circles under his eyes.

For centuries little kids got up at the crack of dawn to help w/chores and nobody whined too much about that. It won't hurt them a bit if they are taking in proper nutrition and getting adequate rest. Some kids also stay awake if they hear the rest of the house is still up, too.

There are a lot of things we could whine about regarding public school, but IMO this isn't one of them. If he's that tired let him take a little nap when he gets home for an hour and then wake him up for the rest of the day's activities.

[Fumesucker]

129. The agricultural age was not and is not natural for humans either..

Agriculture is not new enough for humans to have evolved much to adapt to its demands time wise. Evolution has actually suited us to life as hunter-gatherers where getting up before dawn and staying awake after dark is neither necessary nor much done unless hunting is done at night, in which case the hunters sleep enough to catch up.

Not everyone has the same sleep requirements or the same biological clock. I have three grandchildren, the youngest gets up easily and is almost always cheerful, the the eldest is very difficult to get up and is almost always grumpy in the morning while the middle child varies quite a bit, sometimes easy sometimes hard, they all go to bed at the same time and since they all basically have the same diet, it's not a matter of diet.

If you put a child with a long sleep requirement to bed early enough for a natural 5:30 am awakening time then there is going to be zero family time during the week for a child who needs a longer sleep time. Often parents these days do not get home until 6 pm or later, I know that was the case in my household for many years.

People's sleep requirements also change sometimes, there were times in my life when twelve hours or more didn't seem enough, these days I count five hours as a good night's sleep.

We are very complex beings and there is no one-size-fits-all answer for sleep reqirements.

[MrsBrady]

146. right, one size does not fit all

if I could, I would shift everything back about 4-6 hours and start the day and get up about 9:30 and go to bed at 3am....givertake

or even better...I also would like schedule with getting up at in the mornings and the evenings, sleeping mid day and mid night...
but I couldn't live like that unless I was a cat or retired or independently wealthy, i guess

[janx]

101. You do what you have to do...your child will survive.

As long as he has enough sleep, he'll be fine. It's just a matter of routine. It's that way with all of us, both children and adults. Children need more sleep, and adolescent children even more! Middle aged adults need more sleep, but they seldom give themselves that opportunity, especially these days.

About the badge of honor--a 5:30 wake-up call isn't detestable as long as the child has had the necessary amount of sleep. I've known farmer kids who have had to get up and do chores (milking cows), at 5:00 a.m., but those kids usually went to sleep at 7:00 or 7:30 p.m..

There was a point in my first two kids' lives when I had to get them up very early in order to get them to day care so I could get to work. I got up at 5:00, and I got them up at around 5:30. They were toddlers. I had to do this to keep my job; I was a single mom. They went to bed early in the evening.

So it's not a matter of a badge of honor; it's just what works best for you and your child.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

103. I used to get up at 8 am for school which started at 9 am

[Manifestor_of_Light]

104. I hate early mornings.

When I was in high school from 1968-1972, school started at 8:15. We got 30 minutes for lunch.
School was out at 3:40. It took me TWENTY MINUTES to walk to my locker, change my books out, and walk out the front door. The school is huge. It had 3500 students when I was there.


We had six minutes between classes, so I never had time to go to the bathroom. I had to go to orchestra class at noon, and sneak in late, to go to the bathroom when I was menstruating and the teacher threatened to put me in detention. I should have put a dirty Kotex on his desk, I guess.


My thyroid died when I was about eleven years old, in junior high. I was put on thyroid extract but I never got enough of it. So I was exhausted all the time. My mom would pick me up from school at 4 pm. I went home and crashed for three to four hours, until 8 pm, got up and either went to orchestra rehearsal or did homework or practiced the piano or violin, and then went to bed around eleven. I slept till noon on the weekends.

I had a biology lab once a week in the tenth grade from 7 am to 10 pm. We skipped homeroom.

I can't work, because I have hypertension and anytime an alarm clock goes off, I startle quite easily. It makes me nervous and my BP spikes. Just getting in the car and driving to work, waiting for some hyperventilating boss to watch me come in the door a minute late, like Cerberus, gives me too much stress.

I avoid telephones and alarm clocks.

My grandmother had an overactive thyroid and she was an overachiever. She thought that my parents and my sister and I were all "lazy" because we slept till noon on Saturdays at her house. We had all been working or going to school. She also thought we lived on a farm and we weren't supposed to go back to bed if we got up to eat or go to the bathroom. :wtf:


She would turn on the radio in the kitchen, loudly at 6:30 am and wondered why we all hated it and slept late. My mother had to take thyroid extract too, same disease I had.

She also made all the girls scurry around the kitchen three times a day to prepare meals. I hated that too. She thought she was feeding farmhands.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

113. See, this is practice for being a factory worker

When I was an unemployed Ph.D., I did temp work, including industrial temp, and all the factory jobs were 7:00AM to 3:30PM, since we didn't get paid for lunch. Clerical jobs were 8:30-4:30 or 9:00-5:00 with an hour for lunch, paid. The executives came and went as they pleased, especially at noon. A definite caste system.

I am a night person. Always have been. When I was in grade school, my bedtime was 8PM. I'd lie awake for two or three hours and then have to get up at 7PM.

To the person up-thread who said that people have to learn to get up in the morning: Some of us aren't wired that way, and it's really irritating to have some person who's up before the birds acting all morally superior. (I know that most of them are no good after 9PM.)

[Sal Minella]

118. I loved working 3 P to 11 P in the factory! Unfortunately none of the myriad

offices I worked in had a shift starting late afternoon, and after many years, I remained totally useless (i.e. asleep on my feet) at 8 in the morning.

Since retiring and letting my body do what it wants, it seldom deigns to open an eye before 9 a.m. And yes, it's great to be getting enough sleep at long last.

[Withywindle]

119. Important point - the time you go to BED is not necessarily the time you go to SLEEP.

As a child, the reason I hated bedtime wasn't that I was having too much fun or didn't want to sleep. I've always loved sleep. It just has never come easy. Even when I was little, "going to bed" meant lying there for at least an hour in the dark with nothing to do, unable to sleep and bored shitless (at least until I figured out the book/flashlight trick, and, later, the "creep around until you see that the light under the parents' bedroom door has gone out" trick).

There is, in fact, such a thing as circadian rhythm variation among humans. Those of us who are night owls, it's not a matter of "bad habits" - it's that all of our bodily rhythms, including temperature fluctuations, digestion, and circulation are attuned to a schedule other than dawn-to-dark. Think about it from an evolutionary perspective - wouldn't it help a tribe or clan's chances of survival to have a certain percentage of the population that was naturally most alert at night to keep watch?

I'm still horrified at the number of people who have never thought about this in any terms other than the superstitious ones of the "virtuous" and the "lazy." Most night-shift people I've known--cops, firefighters, doctors, nurses, computer programmers, writers, editors, taxi drivers, anyone whose career is tied to what's happening right now on other continents (be it science, news, economics....), etcetera--are some of the hardest-working and smartest people out there.

And yeah, I think forcing a 6-year-old up at 5:30 with NO NAPS (WTF, we always had naptime when I was in kindergarten and 1st-grade - I hated it at the time, don't think I ever fell asleep once - but still, some kids did) is fucking child abuse. Ugh. Why would anyone think that was a good idea at all, much less a necessary one?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

121. Right---and I do work partly on the schedule of another time zone,

namely, Japan.

My work assignments tend to arrive in the evening. If they need something by the end of their business day, that's 3AM in the summer and 2AM in the winter.

That's not a problem for me, except that the rest of the world keeps scheduling things in the morning.

[Withywindle]

125. Yup - I worked in various aspects of the newspaper business for 15 years.

That newspaper on the doorstep in the morning, you morning people? Fairies didn't put it there. Fairies didn't write it, edit it, lay it out, print it, or deliver it either. Who did? Probably the people calling their alderman to complain when people start up their lawnmowers, screaming children, and various other power tools at 6:30 AM, without sparing a second's courtesy for all the people who work hours EVERY BIT AS LONG AS THEIRS, whose shift might have just ended an hour ago.

I have no problem with 9-to-5 people--unless they start acting like their paradigm is the only worthwhile reality. It's not, not by a long shot.

[Withywindle]

126. And that's our answer for the "morning Nazis"

It's always morning somewhere. It's always mid-afternoon somewhere!


My landlord has a fit when I call him at 11 PM - well, sorry, dude, I just got home from work and noticed the flood coming through the ceiling. It wasn't raining when I left for work at noon so I had no idea the leak was so bad. I panicked a little and thought you'd rather know about it sooner rather than later, sue me!

(If you do the math and figure in an hour's commute each way, which it isn't quite, that's still a 9-hour day. Which I do six times a week. It doesn't mean I'm "lazy" because I, a territorial single female who likes to shower, etc. in privacy, am not willing to host a bunch of strange noisy workmen in my studio apartment at 7!)

[Sal Minella]

145. Morning Nazis indeed! When I was saying "Let's figure out a better way to...."

in the office, the response would usually be a "Let's talk about this in the morning, when we're fresh." Which meant all planning was done by bright-eyed people babbling in the early light while I clutched my coffee cup (if I had managed to find the coffeepot) and tried to appear to be awake.

I worked for many decades like this. It wasn't "bad habits" -- no matter what schedule is imposed on my physical system, it hits stride in late afternoon.

[dysfunctional press]

116. if he has breakfast at school- why does he need 40 minutes to get ready for the bus?

since he has the phys ed thing, i don't imagine he showers before going to school either...?

and- what time does he actually arrive at school?
you say that the bus picks him up at 6:10, and that there's compulsory physical education and breakfast at school- but nothing about what time he arrives at school :shrug:
is he one of the earlier stops on the bus route? after all- someone has to be...

personally- i have no problem with that kind of schedule for a kid that age- we were ALWAYS up before 6am. and if it were me in his shoes- there's no reason that i couldn't get up at 5:45 and have PLENTY of time to make a 6:10 bus- even at that age.

but some people are just better at mornings, i guess.
it's my favourite time of day.

[Bryn]

117. I was sent away to boarding school at age of 4

when it was discovered that I had severe hearing loss (sent to residential school for the deaf and the blind in St. Augustine, FL). It was in 1954. Mean housemother would wake us girls in the ward at 6am. We had to make our beds, then go wash our faces, get dressed then go to dining room for breakfast at 7am. Back to our ward to clean toilets, mop floors, dust, etc. Then go to classes at 8am.

We girls weren't allowed to wear pajamas. No pillows allowed. We had to go to bed by 8pm.

Most of us turned out all right. To me, those were such good memories. I still keep in touch with girls I grew up with at that boarding school. Was it wrong? No, not really. It was good for us.

I was there from age of 4 until I was 17 during school years.

Ray Charles attended this same school by the way..for the blind. :hi:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

124. If 10 hours sleep isn't enough put him to bed earlier.

[fight4my3sons]

132. How far away from the school do you live?

What time does school start? How many buses does the school send out? It seems that if your son is getting picked up at that time, you would live some distance from the school or the bus has a lot of kids to pick up before getting to school. My son is 6, in the 1st grade and when he did take the bus earlier in the year he was picked up at 7:45 am. His school day starts at 8:40 am. He would arrive at the school at 8:14 -8:20 am. We moved and are now within walking distance to his school so he is not bused. He gets there early and is a "greeter" in the classroom with the other walkers. Last year he started full day Kindergarten as a 4yr old (the cut off date here in Maine is in Oct) and they did not have nap time and had PE two days a week as well as recess twice a day. He came home tired and cranky most days. We made sure he went to sleep by 7:30 -8 the latest (he has brothers that he came home and wanted to play with after school). Does your son get a snack time in his class? My son still gets snack time every morning even this year in 1st grade. I think this helps him keep going and not get tired.

[olegramps]

136. I was amassed at what times my grandkids had to get up for school.

Now, I know that when I talk about schooling in my day it is ancient history. 70 years ago when I started school it began at 9:00 and we were out at 3:15. It was that way all the way through school until college. What I can't comprehend is that they expect kids in kindergarten to be reading, know their colors and some math comprehension before they even start. I remember learning my colors in kindergarten, having milk, a nap and playing outside.

We were of the thinking that kindergarten was an introduction to school that got the children ready for 1st grade. Everyone says the school system is in big trouble but they seem to demand a lot from the little kids so why is it failing. It would seem to me that with such a grand start they would all be rocket scientists by the time they graduated from high school. Yet supposable, they did a better job educating us with a shorter school day than now. We didn't have too much homework. I see all these kids with their backpacks stuffed with books. I expect they will bent over like my grandmother was by the time they are 30. I just think that 9:00 is plenty early enough. Maybe the teachers aren't doing a good job because they aren't getting the rest they need either. I bet they are under the same stress, taking kids to all these extra activities, late dinners, grading papers, etc. I have seen it in our family, a regular rat race.

[pipi_k]

137. I'm sort of on the fence...

On one side, I'm thinking, geez, that really sucks having to be up that early and all

On the other side I'm thinking, what about kids in other countries? It's sad that kids in other countries are outpacing American kids, for the most part. Why? Are we not strict enough here?

I really don't know the answer :shrug:


One thing I did want to point out, though, from reading most of the other replies...

I'm a little...I dunno...surprised to see that so many kids in elementary school actually get homework.

OK, I graduated High School in 1970, which gives a pretty good idea of when I was in elementary school. From Kindergarten to Grade 6 we did NOT have homework (aside from the occasional project we worked on outside of class). But we did not have nightly or weekly homework until we got to Junior High, which in my area started at Grade 7.

I feel like I got a pretty decent education even though from K to grade 6 we had lots and lots of free time after school. And as far as I know, class sizes were bigger then...the Baby Boom and all. How did those teachers manage to turn out a relatively intelligent generation of kids without resorting to giving out homework assignments?

One of those mysteries of the Universe, I guess...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

142. Getting up early has nothing to do with school achievement

The school day in Japan starts at about 8:30 or 9:00.

Besides, a sleep-deprived child isn't going to be as attentive as one who is well-rested.

[JerseygirlCT]

140. detestable.

My little one is and always has been (from infancy) a nightowl. He simply cannot fall asleep earlier than 9:30 at best. Usually more like 10. Even as a newborn. He was the only baby I knew who slept until 9:30 or 10 in the am. (Though he was ready to party at 11 and midnight!)

This schedule is made for the convenience of the adults, not the best interests of the children. Time for that to change!

(Luckily, our elementary starts at 9 - school bus p/u is 8:40. Which means I have to pull him out of bed at 8. Too early, still, but much more possible).

[sammytko]

143. no, you should be outraged - I am

I'm currently working on an ed degree. one of my courses requires that i put in 80 hrs of observation time at a local school.

So i show up for my afternoon session on friday - 1300. i sat in the classroom for over an hour before the kiddies showed up. they were having "free-time" Friday. Why even go to school on Fridays. Every Friday i've been there has been a total slack off day.

yeah, i live on the street that leads directly to the school. i am getting out of bed and the buses are already rolling by. i'll go in and some kids can barely stay awake.

the school isn't bad - the classrooms are small - only 20 kids per teacher. the teachers do not have to pull any extra duties at all. they seem to have plenty of time during the day to do their lesson plans etc.

they are doing well on their evaluation tests. if you broke it down to what they are required to teach (which i did), you could do it in 3 months. the rest of the time could be spent on individual instruction on more interesting subjects.

this is in a small "economically deprived" town texas.

[Summermoondancer]

144. I agree that is a problem.

They give them so much homework they spend half the night working on it too. I like the system here and the US should learn something from it.
They have education six days a week, but they have two different schedules...they have classes that run from 7 am to 11:45 am and they have classes that run from 12:15 pm to 5:15 pm my son goes to school on the afternoon schedule. Their Saturday classes are twice a month and run from 7 am to 10 am for reinforcement for children that are having trouble keeping up.
While the education system here lacks many things it is pretty good and with the proper tools and teachers it would be a better system than the US has. They lack funds though so it is difficult and sometimes they have trouble with strikes among teachers, you don´t see that in the US. However, I am pleased with my son´s teachers and they actually care about their students some of them work for two months at a time without pay.

[tjwash]

148. You'll live.

Aye...people and their precious, fragile little spawn :eyes:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

149. In my schold district, elementary schools start at 8:30, middle school at 9:30 and high schools at

7:30.

When my sons went to elementary school, they could have easily started school at 7:30. They were both naturally up at 6AM.
The hard part was when I had to threaten them out of bed every morning so they could get to high school at 7:30. My kids got an average of about 5-6 hours sleep. It is just against most teenagers internal clocks.

[Hepburn]

150. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay toooooooooooo early, IMO!

What the heck time do classes start? P.E. is great ~~ in fact very good ~~ but when there are adverse consequences that most likely have an adverse impact on academics? Wrong.

[C......N......C]

152. Right on you are. They yell and preach about how it is all about the kids

but then they don't want to get enough buses so children can get up at a more reasonable time. It is all about the bus schedules and bus money. Our daughter never rode a bus because my wife was concerned about the drivers getting up early and trying to keep a schedule.

[ananda]

153. Ask yourself ..

.. whether he's actually going to sleep at 8pm
when you put him to bed. Obviously he's not.

So the question is why?

There is just so much junk out there..junk
with processed sugar or corn syrup.. and junk
with caffeine.

[mopinko]

154. if i had nothing else to do, this would be my crusade. worse for teens.

and it is usually an additional affront to the kids with special needs, be they for special ed, or gifted, that they often are sent to magnets that require an additional travel time of up to an hour.
here high schools start an hour before elementary schools. plus more kids have long commutes. and there is hard science that the circadian clock is turning the other way. and yet, kids drop out, some even commit suicide because of the sleep depravation. try telling that to a school administrator tho. they will be happy to explain that you are being a wimp.

[lonestarnot]

155. Poor little guy... has anyone even welcomed him to slavedom?

[OnionPatch]

157. I think it's extreme.

IMO, it's not natural for any human to arise before daylight. (And I'm an early-riser, myself.) I abhor the practice of making little soldiers out of children. This almost seems to fit into that category. I don't think you're a wimp.

As for the lunch menus, I think they are well-intentioned but regulated in the wrong way. Our school does not allow a single sugary treat, even on birthdays or celebrations. I think that's going way too far. I would rather see them add some local produce and eliminate the partially-hydrogenated soybean oils and GMOs from the lunch menu. And I wouldn't mind if they'd take that Chino beef off the menu, as well, if they haven't already. :puke:

[intheflow]

160. You're right on.

Why in the world does this happen so early? And an accompanying question, why does school get over so early? When the average adult work day is from 9-5, why are our children in school from 7-2? Why not tack on the compulsory phys ed after school, when so many kids would be heading to daycare sites?

[lostnfound]

163. Sleep deprivation is helpful, as it is conducive to brainwashing.

Get those little buggers in their regimented authoritarian happy little classrooms, divorced from nature and accustomed to taking orders from middle management. They'll spend 12 or 13 years there if all goes well, and come out prepared to work at Corporate Inc. Very few will end up with enough guts, self-reliance or independent thought to start up their own businesses -- unlike the 1800s when they had book learnin' for just a few hours a day -- and that is helpful to the owners and rulers of the world. Because there was too much chaos and overproduction when everyone thought they had a shot at the original American dream of being their own boss.

[lib2DaBone]

164. Elementary School starts here at 7:20..Bus picks them up at 6:40 a.m.

This is WAY too early for kindergardeners and 1st graders to be wandering around in the dark.

I was told by the School Board that these times are mandated because of working mothers who have to get their children to school before they start work at 8:30.

George Carlin: "They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."