Smoking ban angers mental-health groups

[The Straight Story]

ELEANOR HALL: It seems logical for a health department to enforce a no smoking rule but mental health experts are warning the New South Wales Health Department that banning smoking in psychiatric facilities could be dangerous for both patients and their carers.

....

BARBARA MILLER: But some mental health groups are worried. Desley Casey has been an acute mental health patient several times and now works with the consumer group CAN Mental Health.

DESLEY CASEY: I think it's cruel, it's inhumane and it actually goes against the human rights of people with mental illness.

BARBARA MILLER: Why do you think it's cruel?

DESLEY CASEY: Imagine that you're acutely unwell and you're locked in an inpatient unit where you can't get out. You're a smoker. And now they're expecting you to go through withdrawal symptoms. So basically your mental health is actually exacerbated and illness is exacerbated by the fact that you're actually going through withdrawal symptoms.

BARBARA MILLER: David Crosbie the CEO of the Mental Health Council of Australia says a similar ban at an institution in Victoria ended badly.

DAVID CROSBIE: In this case you had people who were under community-based orders to receive treatment and, you know, were at risk of flight who were being taken outside the hospital grounds to stand in a vacant paddock and there was at least one case where from that location they were able to easily abscond.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2008/s2520766.htm

[hedgehog]

1. Anecdotal evidence suggests that many people use cigarettes to self medicate.

[LooseWilly]

16. I anecdotally do so myself.

In fact, I think I need one now... damn, I was doing so well until this thread came up... now it's off into the rain.

[cliffordu]

26. Heh. Anecdotally, I used to, too....

[ejpoeta]

40. drug and alcohol abuse tends to be a form of self medicating in general.

as for being in mental health facility where smoking is not allowed, I have been there. i didn't smoke myself at the time, but as I recall, folks would have cigarettes smuggled in and the staff kind of looked the other way. This was a lockdown type of situation too. it was in a hospital btw. no i am not crazy. i was depressed and was there for a week and a half.

[eridani]

54. Not just nicotine, either. A lot of drug use is self-medication

--that is, people who are not trying to get high--they're trying to get normal.

[backscatter712]

2. One of the few positive effects of cigarettes...

is that they've been known to relieve the symptoms of schizophrenia.

People with that disorder smoke like chimneys for a reason - they see fewer hallucinations, and don't hear voices when they're smoking.

This effect has been observed enough that here in the U.S., staffers at psych facilities have been known to let patients bend or break smoking bans.

[Maat]

3. I used to work with schizophrenic patients in the early 90s ...

and can swear that what you say is true (at least that's what all of my clients told me).

[Last Stand]

42. I still do. And I concur.

I read somewhere that there is something in the Nicotine that raises the endorphins in the brain. That would explain it.

90% of my clients smoke. At $6/pack they spend nearly all of their spending money on this habit--it's really important to them.

ALL of the hospitals are smoke-free, including the state hospital.

When they went smoke-free, I expected a bad response, ranging from increased agitation and depression to violent outbursts. I was shocked when the ban took hold relatively uneventfully. People can still go out to smoke if they are in control enough to get supervised privelages, so it actually provides incentive to keep it together. It really is not something I hear many complaints about from even the heavy smokers on my caseload. They find ways to adjust, I guess.

[Maat]

46. Interesting ... thanks (n/t).

[TheDebbieDee]

4. This is the first I've ever heard about the positive effects of smoking

cigarettes on schizophrenia.

I'm not being a smarta$$, but have you observed anything about marijuana and schizophrenia?

[shadowknows69]

27. It also helps

[Emit]

5. I worked at a mental health facility and it wouldn't surprise me if this were true

it was common knowledge amongst staff that persons with severe mental illness were often heavy smokers - whether self-medicating, or just from sheer boredom, we never knew why, but smoking was prevalent.

[No.23]

6. Speaking only from personal experience, I can unequivocably say that....

I get along much better with the other people who live in my head...

when I support the hard working men and women...

of the tobacco industry.

But that's just me, of course.

[shadowknows69]

28. As do I, it makes them ignorable.

[TahitiNut]

7. That's not enough to placate the tobacco Nazis.

:smoke:

[undergroundpanther]

8. When I was in the psych wards...

I remember alot people on the inside used cigarettes to help cope with stress and the overwhelming side effects like tiredness caused by drugs like Thorazine.

Many psych units still force people to stay in a "public area" all day like in a day room ,or be in groups and stay alert.They insist on this no matter how tired you are made by the drugs you MUST be in the milieu and not fall asleep.

It's a maddening catch 22 and it is not healthy,but most psych staff insist it is,but for me it was tormenting to force myself to stay awake under the influence of the powerful drugs without any nicotine dependence,I never took up smoking. So I couldn't imagine the worse torment of fighting an addiction while being drugged up and forced awake would be like.


Cigarettes on one unit were used as behavior modification rewards.This unit was terrible they treated people like dogs there. It was really dehumanizing and stressful on that unit.It was not therapeutic in the least and as far as I could tell it seemed to make some people worse. So,one day watching these smokers lose it,get harangued by staff again and again for falling asleep I decided to do something.

So,I got my super soaker,loaded it up with water, put a bandanna over my face,put on a black hat and my leather vest, and I "held up" the "point store".

I demanded all the hershey bars made a few other cracks
and let the water fly everywhere nailing staff the book the walls and everything else.
The performance was so funny the other patients were tickled and the staff never
realized my real underlying reason for doing it was to wipe out the records of the entire units b mod points ledger by flooding the ink.As the person who always wrote in the book used a pen with water soluble ink.

Because the books were made unreadable everyone got 1000 points,because the staff couldn't figure out who had what anymore so they gave everyone 1000 points. Finally the lower functioning people who were losing it from being so tired , forced to stay awake and having bad nicotine fits could smoke and get some relief..And everyone had a good laugh to boot.

Sometimes in totalitarian places like mental hospitals you have to be creative if you want to get what people around you need, regardless of rules without staff noticing what it really was done for.

[Fire1]

9. Casey has a good point.

[1]

10. i hate the smell of cigarette smoke. i hate second hand smoke...

anyone smoking is a danger to them self and others.

why should this be any different?

[The Straight Story]

11. So these folks should suffer because of something you don't like?

We live in a big world full of people doing things I don't like, but we have something called choice.

Where to work, what to eat, where to go get a drink at, and so on.

Don't want to dispense the morning after pill, don't work at a pharmacy. Don't want to be around smoke in a bar, go to one that does not allow it.

What is wrong with people that they so often want to limit choice? I thought that was a RW thing.

[1]

12. no one should smoke. its just wrong and bad. people should just quit...

they would feel so much better. and live longer too...

[The Straight Story]

13. Well just because someone feels that way should we make laws about it?

Christian fundies want to outlaw a bunch of things they see as bad for us - from abortions to coffee.

Why can't we all just let others be themselves and quit trying to make laws to get people to conform to our own beliefs?

[1]

15. what planet do you live on? smoking bans have been the "thing to do" for decades...

please, and drop your "fundie" bullshit lines about abortions and coffee.

if smoking bans cause discomfort to prisoners in penitentiaries or to john q. public out in society, then that's just perfectly fine with you, right?

but now that it affect a class of people you identify with it is suddenly bad? hypocrite much?

you have to get your outrages straight, bud. if its bad for the all of the rest of us, then it is bad for your friends too.

society has deemed smoking as something to be stomped on for decades.

society does not "let others be themselves" about smoking. not for the man on the street. and not for someone with mental-health problems.

it is what it is. they will just have to get used to the new rules...

[The Straight Story]

20. Still does not make them or any other bans right

Controlling what others do is still wrong IMHO.

You don't like it, don't do it. Don't want to be around it, then don't.

What others do with their life is not your business. When you start making it your business you do become a fundie because you are dictating how others should live based on your own beliefs.

[1]

24. bud. i smoke...

i don't like "them" throwing their laws in my face every day. but they do. where i can and what ridiculous price i must pay for their new found tax revenue. but i have to live with those laws. no matter what "my" discomfort is or the heinous taxes they impose on me.

so now you have to deal with this as well. welcome to my world. i have been putting up with this shit for years.

"what others do with their lives" is apparently anyone's business, as long as you are one of those not doing what "they" don't approve of.

i ain't no fundie. talk to all of those that voted for schip. talk to all of those that voted for bans on smoking. those are your fundies. not me.

all good liberals, them...

[dysfunctional press]

43. i smoke. bud...

i don't smoke tobacco- but i think that all the "stats" about second-hand smoke are mostly just so much bullshit.

[Mojorabbit]

17. actually I feel worse when I quit

I am more focused and serene when I smoke.

[1]

18. at first... it gets better...

[Leftist Agitator]

45. No one should eat unhealthy foods its just wrong and bad. people should just quit...

they would feel so much better. and live longer too...




NOW do you see how fucking stupid that sounds? Or did you forgot one of these ---> :sarcasm:

[arikara]

55. I used to have a friend who was as black and white

about smoking. Yet she used to think it was fun to toss a glass of beer on someone for little or no reason. Go figure.

[whopis01]

51. The point here is that some of these people are not given a choice.

They are required to be at these facilities by law. They should not be required to be around smokers and second hand smoke.

They shouldn't be forced to suffer because of something someone else likes.

[Cetacea]

19. Because. It amounts to torture. Science run amok.

Cigarettes help establish a flow of dopamine to the brain that anti-psychotic medication tends to block. This is in fact why many patients are non-compliant with these types of medications.
That's why.

[1]

22. so, does not this not apply to every smoker? shouldn't all smokers be given a pass?

the calming and scientific soothing effects should be available to all.

right?

[Cetacea]

23. Well, the medicication factor makes it much worse, as well as being confined.

I appreciate your point, but it's not exactly the same. However we should do more research for a suitable substitute that doesn't require harmful smoke and it's by products.
Smokers also suffer from Alzheimer's to a significantly lesser degree too. I am guessing it's also due to increased dopamine. It seems that we are throwing the baby out with the bath water regarding nicotine.

[1]

25. i'm guessing you don't smoke...

if you are fat on du, posters will present thousands of "studies" or theories to justify being fat on du. truth is? you are fat and it is your own fault.

if you are addicted to drugs or alcohol, posters will present thousands of "studies" or theories to justify being addicted to drugs or alcohol on du. truth is? you are addicted to drugs or alcohol and it is your own fault.


wow! disagree with me? start posting your thousands of "studies" or theories to justify your...


but smokers get no such pass. "just quit!" that's what a good du'er says. like the fat can stop stuffing food into their faces. like the drunks or drug addicts can stop indulging in their debilitating habits.

there are popular ways of being here. fat. addicted. those are cool. smokers? not so much...

[Cetacea]

39. I am a smoker. So is Obama. Car exhaust kills more than SHS.

I left DU for a long time simply because of the anti-smoking nazis and their propensity to start anti-smoking threads during exceptionally important news cycles, such as the Plame appearance before the House Committee and similar instances. There would be two hundred responses to one smoking thread among st two other smoking threads while Bush was doing another signing statement.

At any rate, I am against smoking bans until cars stop putting out carcinogenic by-products. People are so numb they can't even smell the fairly well disguised car exhaust these days. I wonder how many people actually know what fresh, clean air smells like any more? It's kinda hard to find in most parts.

Furthermore, most people have more pollution in their homes than a smoking permitted establishment equipped with a good air purification system has. I have been in places where the only way I could tell that people were smoking was by visual scanning.

But my original point was that the stresses on the mentally ill and particularly those who are confined and most likely on anti-psychotic medication exceeds that of the typical smoker. As I noted earlier I believe the reason why so-called schizophrenics smoke more is because they are desperately trying to get back the dopamine that their medication is depriving them of and it is one of the few "pleasures" they enjoy. Yes, the same can be said for you and other smokers but in the case of mental patients those under confinement who are fighting the numbing affects of major tranquilizers it is cruel and unusual punishment and I am sure the friggin' over-priced hospitals can afford some really fine air purification systems.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. Wahhhhhhh. Wahhhhhhhh. Wahhhhhhh.

May luck be on my side that someday, though I don't know who you are, that I still see you outside of some restaurant or something and get to blow a big puff of smoke right in your smug face.

Ahhhhhhh, so unlikely, but justtttttt maybe.

[C......N......C]

14. I believe that not all things are a choice.

I think a lot of smokers made to feel guilty about smoking suffer needlessly. I think just like drugs and alcohol and sexual preference, there is no choice, that is just the way you are. There are enough people that can and do benefit from quitting smoking that makes the act universally accepted as all positive. We all are going to die anyways, it is just how much you suffer before you do. Smokers seem to have less to endure.

[undergroundpanther]

31. I agree with you

People really want to believe that free will exists ,so they will blame the person whom"offends" them. Be it by smoking or their weight or whatever else is called "unhealthy" at the time.

Because if people were to admit free will is in reality mitigated by things like circumstances ,stress and a billion other things,it would be so much harder to create a scapegoat to blame for being a 'moral failure',it would require more empathy with those they are 'offended'' by.And to empathize with the other risks the scrutiny of the self righteous persons peers who also want to believe in the myth that they are invulnerable to circumstances ,stress or a billion other things that could mitigate their decisions too.

[BlooInBloo]

21. Alright - where's Jack Nicholson?

:rofl:

[sasquatch]

29. Didn't zoos used to not take animals from circuses because they were smokers

[silverojo]

30. Yet it's not dangerous for non-smoking mental health patients?

What a load of horse shit. Smokers are a bit like RW'ers...they'll use any excuse to justify their damaging behavior. :rofl:

[undergroundpanther]

32. I am a non smoker,and I don't drive..

I am a non-smoker who has grown up around smokers,been around smokers for years and you know what? I value being with the person more than being"offended" by smoke. Ever BBQ on a grill,sit by a fire,drive a vehicle with a combustion engine,burn dinner ,see a forest fire or house fire or burn incense? That is making smoke too and you are breathing it all in, day in day out. Car emissions are a far more prevalent pollution, and more toxic than a smoker.

Give up your car and your smoking arguments may hold some water.

Driving a car is the most polluting act an average citizen commits.
http://www.nutramed.com/environment/cars.htm

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. I've had to stop seeing wonderful friends of mine.

Because they smoked.

I remember one lady I was friends with. I went over to her house to watch a political debate some years ago, and two days after I was there, what happened was exactly what I expected.

Two days later, I got sick as a dog with a sinus infection/bronchitis.

Smoke irritates my respiratory tract so much that I will get sick if I am around it. I don't need a sinus infection/bronchitis/pneumonia when it is avoidable.

I don't care how nice and wonderful people are, if they smoke, that is a deal-breaker.

[Clintonista2]

34. Smoke wherever you want. If your smoke enters my nostrils, you should then be arrested for assault

eom

[Hannah Bell]

35. drive wherever you want. if your exhaust enters my nostrils, you should be arrested for assault.

i'd go for your rule if you'd throw in arrests for the stench of nasty self-righteousness.

[Clintonista2]

36. Fail analogy

I don't have to sit beside a guy in a hummer puffing fumes everytime I go out to a restaurant with my family.

[Hannah Bell]

37. which state might that be in?

[dysfunctional press]

44. denial?

:shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

49. there are 35 states with state-wide bans on smoking in restaurants.

the other 15 have a patchwork of restrictions.

[The Straight Story]

50. And you don't have to go to a restaurant that allows smoking either

choice, I thought it was a good thing?

[Clintonista2]

52. I choose not to have someone else give me cancer

So they can take their ciggies and a bottle of pills.

[Hannah Bell]

53. which state?

[tomp]

38. what about nicotine gum and patches. can't they stave off withdrawal? nt

[rucky]

41. Why doesn't anybody take a treatment approach to addiction?

criminalizing any type of addiction rarely works.

If we really want people to stop smoking, drinking, or doing drugs, we'd offer them affordable treatment and support. You'd think a mental health clinic would've thought of that.

[undergroundpanther]

48. addiction is a way to cope with the stress

of living in an uncontrollable,unpredictable,chaotic and sometimes impersonally cruel ,some times deliberately cruel existence.Reality is a pit of roiling chaos and we are bits of flotsam in it trying to do the impossible.Free will is a myth.Reality does not do our willful bidding.We barely understand our own unconscious.

Cognitive dissonance,stress and abuse by others and more contribute to addictions.Until we as people learn to cherish each other and protect each other from harm people will seek relief from pain in one's life one way or another.

Find out what motivates an addict too use.Learn to listen, give them help and support but do not enable it ,before you go all self righteous and demand they stop it.I know dealing with an addict is crazy making,but finding out what it is that leads a person to seek escape from life via substances might do alot to help addicts.And each person is unique in why they use smoking ,or any other addiction as a coping mechanism.

Click on the origins of addiction link at this site.
http://www.jumpstarttulsa.com/ACE_Study.htm