So whom did Dick Cheney murder? Maybe we should give this a little thought.

[BuyingThyme]

It's interesting that so many journalists have been killed lately. And we still don't know about Pat Tillman, do we? There's always David Kelly. Benazir Bhutto? How about all of the the people who died at the hands of our torturers?

[mix]

1. Pat Tillman

That was definitely a hit. Nothing about that incident makes sense. Tragic.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

2. That's just completely ignorant.

[BuyingThyme]

4. How so?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

5. Pat Tillman was killed in a relatively common friendly fire accident.

[BuyingThyme]

8. How many relatively common friendly fire accidents are personally covered up by the

president of the United States?

[screembloodymurder]

12. Was Cheney hunting in Afghanistan?

Damn.

[cliffordu]

40. Well...

:rofl:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

21. Every single one that involved an NFL football star.

[mix]

15. "relatively common"

what does that mean?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. More common than people think.

[mix]

24. I'll need some data for that claim.

I'll go with the view of the military doctors and family: he was likely murdered.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. Just the experience of a former combat medic.

[mix]

28. Your experience is anecdotal.

Your claim is that Tillman's death is "relatively common" in US combat operations, which goes far beyond your own experience. If it is true that friendly fire is "relatively common," there must be some data on that from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Salon did a series of articles on this issue, suspecting that the military under-reports friendly fire incidents, which supports your position. Some good quotes:

"New statistics obtained by Salon depict a spectacularly low number of U.S. Army deaths from friendly fire in the current conflict in Iraq, a mere fraction of historical rates. According to data released to Salon by the Army's Combat Readiness/Safety Center, only 24 of the 3,059 U.S. Army soldiers killed in Iraq since the invasion in 2003 died by fratricide.

That is a rate of .78 percent, less than one-tenth of almost every estimate from previous conflicts stretching back to World War II, despite six years of combat in Iraq, often in confusing urban terrain, using intense U.S. firepower. Army officials gave Salon similar statistics for Afghanistan: six out of 484 dead, or a rate of 1.24 percent. By comparison, the Army's own estimates of the friendly fire rates for every war from World War II to Desert Storm are between 10 and 14 percent, except for a low of 6 percent during the invasion of Panama. During the last U.S. conflict in Iraq, 1991's Operation Desert Storm, fratricide killed 35 of 298 U.S. service members, or a rate of nearly 12 percent, according to a 1992 report by the Center for Army Lessons Learned.

Those unusually small numbers, along with anecdotal reports from soldiers and a string of coverup allegations, raise the possibility that the Army has routinely swept fratricide incidents under the rug in Iraq and Afghanistan."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/01/15/friendly_fire/

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. Sounds like Salon agrees with me.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. You have some links to those military doctors.

[mix]

31. check this out, for the military doctors

http://www.defenselink.mil/home/pdf/Tillman_Redacted_Web_0307.pdf

You are probably right about the frequency of friendly fire deaths, buy I doubt you are correct about the circumstances of Tillman's death.

Peace.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. We'll never know. Thanks for the link.

[mix]

6. fragging, perhaps

The military's official story did not make sense to its own doctors, who rejected the explanation and sought unsuccessfully to open a criminal investigation. Nor does it makes sense to his family. There has obviously been a cover-up.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-26-tillman-friendly-fire_N.htm

[havocmom]

19. seems more like recruitment ploy than a fragging

Handsome, rugged pro athlete gives up career to be a soldier... tragically dies. Bet the recruiters lapped that one up to use on the 18 year olds.

When the friendly fire FINALLY came out.... hmmmmm, people in high places sure seemed determined to keep a lid on it. Were it not for his courageous parents, we probably would not have known much.

[Canuckistanian]

9. What's ignorant about it?

There are some genuine mysteries surrounding Tillman's killing.

SAN FRANCISCO — Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The original AP article is gone, but this link remains:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291046,00.html

And hey, if you can't trust Fox News......

[EFerrari]

18. Haven't we fielded a bunch of snipers all over Afghanistan?

:sarcasm:

[Canuckistanian]

3. An excellent question

And until we have an investigation on the members of the "hit squad", their contacts and their targets, I don't think justice will be served.

I think this one will probably fall into the vast maw of the big ol' memory hole, where BCCI criminals, Kennedy's REAL murderers and Valerie Plame's leakers reside.

Interesting that (at least) TWO of those scandals I mentioned involved Dick "Dick" Cheney.

[peacetalksforall]

7. I can never forget Michael Berg and another person who were coth . What I remember

the most were the suspicious clues in the photos of the masked men. It's all fading a little, but the clues included shoes, guns, swagger, glasses - not common to the Iraqis and neighboring Taliban or so called al Queda operatives. Who were those gunmen?

I blieve some of the insurgency acts were planned and orchestrated by the U.S. and Britain - to incite division, to have license to go in and clean up.

Don Dick. What a pair. No kid's book there. Don and Dick went up to the Hill and told our representatives to (.....) and shut up. We now own you and the Hill and these are the contracts that don't need oversight, but don't worry because it will all be over soon before it gets too hot in Iraq. We will be back when the oil starts flowing to give you your next orders. Then Don delivered a jingle to which the imbedded newsmen and women laughed and laughed. The day ended when Addington, Libby, and Rove called Jack Welsh and Murdoch, plus the other guys and gave them their propaganda orders while Ari supplied the telephone numbers.

[BuyingThyme]

10. Yes, Nick Berg.

He was in U.S. custody in the days leading up to his murder. He would have been an easy mark.

[EFerrari]

16. Jewelry. n/t

[BuyingThyme]

30. What's "jewelry"?

[EFerrari]

32. The guys that killed Nick Berg were wearing jewelry in the video

eta: which looked like gold jewelry which is supposed to be forbidden (immodest).

[dixiegrrrrl]

11. speaking of dead journalists....here's the latest one.

ABC News Radio Anchorman Found Dead

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3795492

[Harry Monroe]

13. Who did Cheney murder? Um...for starters over 4,000 American troops and over 1,000,000 Iraqis

[BuyingThyme]

14. Oh, and didn't we recently learn that Cheney's wiretap program targeted journalists?

Things seem to be coming together, don't they.

[EFerrari]

17. Bruce Ivins.

[BuyingThyme]

22. I had to look up the name.

How soon we forget.

[mix]

34. anthrax samples

matched in some ways, but different in others...that whole thing stinks too.

[EFerrari]

35. Their case is cr@p and their fancy new science failed to replicate

Ivin's stuff as Mueller claimed it had. FBI is lying.

[havocmom]

23. what was the final count on mysterious deaths of microbiologists after Jan 01?

there was that rash of strange 'suicides' of people in that field in several western nations.

[Norquist Nemesis]

42. That was my first thought as well.

Those were key people and while the number fueled conspiracy thoeries, it's still hard to deny the probabilities of the population.

The FBI should do a raid on Cheney's basement and see what turns up. :evilgrin:

[chollybocker]

27. Don't forget the D.C. Madame.

Her memoirs died with her.

[Lint Head]

36. Better question: Who did Al Capone murder?

Al Capone was convicted of tax evasion because it could not specifically proven me ordered the murder of anyone. Cheney has admitted to torture and condoning the lies of Iraq. Capone kept his mouth shut.

They are both criminals definitely guilty of murder as far as I'm concerned.
:dem:

[annabanana]

37. He conspired in the murder of everyone who died as the result of the illegal

invasion of Iraq. Every last lost soul.

[BuyingThyme]

39. Yes. I was thinking more in terms of the news about his assassination team.

[AnnieBW]

38. That NYT Journo in DC

There was a NYTimes reporter that worked in Washington DC a few years ago. He was mugged and hit over the head. The ambulance took a long time to get there, and when they reached him, they just thought he was drunk. He died later that evening from massive head trauma. The rumor at the time was that he was working on something big.

[terisan]

41. Dr. David Kelly, British Arms Expert who disputed claims re Iraq weaponry and was

found dead in field near home in England. Considered suicide.