Attacking the "AIG bonuses" is attacking Obama

[gulliver]

I've long since stopped being astonished at how easy it is to stampede the herd. It's the banality of mass psychosis, I guess, so over-the-top frightening and pathetic that all anyone with sense can do is yawn. Where is Voltaire when you need him? Get out the Netflix, folks, and look away, 'cuz it's getting ugly dumb in the real world.

What is the difference between Clinton's BJ and the AIG bonuses? I'm sure both were fun for the receiving parties. But what makes them so important that our many seething emoters feel they have to push the red button under the "do not push the red button" sign? Why has the Democratic brain bypass switch been thrown?

I'll tell you the main difference between Clinton's BJ and the AIG bonuses. The AIG bonuses trivia works on both sides of the aisle, like free beer or MRSA. The AIG rain dance channels Democratic rage at the "designated bad guys" and Republican attacks on Obama at the same time. It gives the GOP a scapegoat and ties Obama's ankle to the scapegoat.

If the Republicans didn't spin up this tempest in a teapot, they should have. I usually don't give their leaders credit for much in the way of brains except in the field of sneaky bullshit. I respect their PhDs.

Nice going Dems! Nice going tabloid media! Here is some sound advice. When a Republican offers to toss you a Raisenet, keep your mouth closed next time. It's not a Raisenet.

[Uzybone]

1. Dude/Dudette. Stop

Attacking AIG bonues does not equal attacking Obama. I kinda see your point, but the canard you threw out there is obstructing it.

[dem629]

2. You should change your name from gulliver to gullible.

Shielding Obama from criticism is no better than the die-hard conservatives excusing everything Bush did for 8 years.

Every last one of these business leaders and politicians are mesmerizing the public with shiny new gadgets and slick oratory, while they're stealing our money and future.

[WhiteTara]

11. words out of my keyboard n/t

[TankLV]

15. My thoughts exactly.

[gulliver]

18. Re: gulliver/gullible

That's the whole idea!!!

WRT mesmerization, how do you know which gadgets and slickness to avoid? I say you need to look at which direction the crap is flowing in this day and age. If it is flowing away from Republicans, something is amiss.

[Egnever]

20. Thats exactly what this AIG outrage is about

they are fueling it to keep you looking the other way. Pay no attention to the men behind the screen.

[Why Syzygy]

3. What about Obama's outrage about AIG bonuses?

Is he advocating for more BJ?

How silly can one get. :sheesh:

I regret even hitting post on this one.

[Two Americas]

44. Obama is against Obama

Is everyone against Obama? Now even he is against himself.

[Runcible Spoon]

4. The only reason I have a problem with the bonus debacle is because it's very obviously a smokescreen

for a much larger issue:

AIG's payouts to outfits like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley

[BuyingThyme]

5. Defending AIG bonuses is defending secret government, rewarding failure, hating America.

You are a homer. You fail.

[chrisa]

22. I disagree.

That dead "America Hater" horse is tired of being hit. I'm not sure there's much left of it now.

Unfortunately, sometimes we have to let the bad guys win a round or two. They can take their bonuses now, but look what happened to their reputation. We'll get them next time.

[BuyingThyme]

30. To support secret government is to hate America.

[KittyWampus]

6. It wasn't the actual bonuses, it was AIG saying FUCK YOU and the way Obama and his team

just take it, and in fact, encourage such behavior by refusing to hold people accountable and to allow those who engaged in risky investments to actually lose money.

[TahitiNut]

7. One half of one percent of the taxpayer funds given AIG ... the sense of proportionality is gone.

:shrug: The obscene levels of 'compensation' for Masters Of The Universe overall is an even bigger issue than all of TARP and bailout.

People handling dollars should have an appreciation for the VALUE of a dollar that's far more akin to the working class's perception than is engendered by such wholesale greed.

[dkf]

17. Its not the amount, its the principle of the matter.

Just like pork...

[Egnever]

23. What principle?

Revenge? That what we are about now? Is it 9-11 all over again?

[dkf]

25. People that did irresponsible actions which bring the entire company

down should not be rewarded.

Remember that trader that lost $6 billion dollars? He was arrested and jailed.

That is the proper punishment for people losing that kind of money. This team lost $500 billion dollars and cost you and me a TON of money. To not jail them, but to match the bonus they made in their heyday is unconscionable.

[Egnever]

28. and thats where the problem lies

they aren't being rewarded. They are being paid the salary they agreed to at the beginning of the fiscal year.

Too many spout that same line over and over that its some sort of performance reward when it was nothing of the kind.

[dkf]

29. No, they were getting their salary plus the retention bonus.

You may not have noticed, but there is a rage sweeping this country in bonusing people who work for bankrupt companies.

Recently, our local telco announced $6 million in bonuses to their employees because of their bankruptcy. This was a front page article in our local paper. It does not sit right with people that a bankrupt company pay large bonuses as a reward for the company's failure.

[Egnever]

31. The retention bonus was part of their compensation package

it wasn't a bonus added on at the end of the year it was a guarantee that their earnings would remain the same as the last year regardless of company performance.

I am all for regulating corporate theft I just don't believe you can do it retroactively. Nor do I do believe you can single out a group of employees because you don't like the size of their paycheck.

[dkf]

34. I believe that too.

But people are enraged that this is still happening and that the culture of Wall Street won't stop.

The perception that is being formed is that Obama etal want to give Wall Street funds so that they can preserve the culture of big bonuses and lavish lifestyles of the past.

So far, almost every person who has given back money or cut their pay or perks has done it in response to outrage, not out of common decency. The people don't trust Wall Street to understand what is acceptable as a Government Supported Employee.

The fact that these employees don't give back the funds of their own volition out of pure embarrassment and shame also forms the views of the public.

[Sebastian Doyle]

32. Those criminal bastards on Wall Street actually did more damage to this country in the last 28 years

Than Osama Bin Laden could have thought of in a morphine drip induced wet dream with 72 virgins

[Egnever]

35. They didnt do it by themselves

They had a lot of help.

[dkf]

36. Mostly from Congress, signed into law by Clinton and Bush.

[Obamanaut]

40. I think sometimes we forget that presidents just sign shit or don't sign

shit that comes before them - all presented by weasels in congress. We swap out the White House occupant every eight years (sometimes four) but the weasels that are writing bills to be signed, sticking earmarks on those bills, whining and complaining about what the President is or is not doing while they are writing and sticking - we reelect those same weasels for terms of thirty to forty years.

Why are we surprised that they are screwing us? They know we won't fire them. Congressional turnover at elections is rarely over 10%, so is it any wonder that we have what we have?

[dkf]

41. Don't you wonder if they understand what they are proposing though?

Sometimes I think they aren't sophisticated enough to know how their laws will be used.

When I listen to some of the questioning, it makes me wonder about the smarts of some of our Reps and Senators.

[Obamanaut]

42. Every time I watch one of the televised hearings, on anything, there

are times when I ask myself "Was there really a question in that dissertation?" I think they just like the camera face time and simply string words together to make it last.

I wonder mostly at us, we the people. Congressional and Presidential disapproval at an all time low last year, yet we kept most of the incumbents. What an ideal time for a clean sweep, and we blew it.

I like Pres O., I really do. It saddens me to know that so many of "we the people" heap blame on him rather than realize he inherited this mess, and he's fighting not only the mess, but the media and the impatience of "we" as well.

[biopowertoday]

8. well then, Make it so.

[sendero]

9. No...

... it is attacking his ham-handed, half-assed, making a bad problem worse economic team and plans.

[Egnever]

24. were you not paying attention when this stuff passed?

Obama was not in office yet. He was arguing for greater transparency and a cap on CEO pay. How was Obama ham fisted in this?

[sendero]

38. He hired...

.. Geithner and Summers, old IB hacks to plan his strategy. He's put way more money than Bush did in the system SINCE taking office and IT'S NOT WORKING.

He is going along with the bankers' plan to let THE TAXPAYERS BAIL THEM OUT OF THEIR FOLLY.

It is going to backfire BIG TIME, the mess that Bush created is going to be hung around his neck.

[PSPS]

10. You couldn't be more wrong

It isn't "the bonuses" per se that has the coutry in an uproar. It's the whole idea that we have legions of billionaires who are shielded from anything remotely resembling the real world the other 99.9% lives in.

Here we have this AIG that was part of an entire industry that deals with trillions of dollars of phony "risk" instruments. They churn them up to make billions in commissions. When their ponzi scheme goes bust, it's we the taxpayer that has to float their yacht instead of letting it sink as it should. When you boil it down, you've got a system where the already ultra wealthy are shoveled billions and trillions of taxpayer money to guarantee that they can continue living their lavish lifestyle while everyone else struggles to get by.

Where you find any relationship between this and oral sex is, frankly, beyond me.

[BeFree]

12. I was gonna say something here, but

....yall so thoroughly destroyed the OP that now I almost feel sorry for gullible.

[Egnever]

26. if it were what you say

I would be totaly on board. But it certainly isn't being directed that way. Its being directed at a game of gotcha to take down the administrations popularity.

The rage is not being channeled at all where it needs to be into getting regulations passed that stop this sort of behavior going forward and instead being funneled at the administration as a means to punish people in and around this administration.

The general public and way too many here on DU are being played for fools. When its time for healtcare and climate change legislation don't be surprised when we cant get it passed because people took their anger out on this administration instead of using it to solve the problems going forward.

[PSPS]

39. You've got it backward

The rage is not being channeled at all where it needs to be into getting regulations passed that stop this sort of behavior going forward and instead being funneled at the administration as a means to punish people in and around this administration.

No, it is actually up to Obama's administration to take just the initiative you prescribe. If they don't and, instead, simply continue with their hackneyed attempts to prop up the current failed system, it will be that which destroys Obama's presidency. It's in Obama's hands and he's playing it badly. That's his fault, not the fault of those who recognize the fault and clamor about it. Obama's either not listening or he's not the man we thought he was.

[terisan]

13. Goldman Sachs gave Obama 900,000 to capture presidency. They have an armchair at Treasury.

Rest of Wall Strret was also incredibly generous. Then there were all the big money "bundlers" Treasury has been turned over to the contributers.

Progressives who gave the small individual contributions are getting the stimulus and the end of the war and a health care plan.

Wall Street is getting theirs through bailouts, loan guarantees.

The Republicans are for now the bystanders hoping to get back into the money mill game.

Right now the Dems are tossing us the raisenets. (Yes I know there are many honest ones but they are being much too quiet).

If we don't get wise to the 2 party corruption game we are doomed to be sujects, not citizens.

[gulliver]

14. To the people who disagree with me so eloquently...

Especially those who obviously are holding back the full force of their intellect to spare me further embarrassment. I just want to tell you how much it means to me to have your vehement opposition and pity. I'm never sure I'm on the right track until I have your input.

[Egnever]

27. LOL

good one!

[leftstreet]

16. Yes, labeling DUers 'psychotic' is an excellent way to start a conversation

:rofl:

[gulliver]

21. Are you reading this on a Sunday afternoon?

I rest my case.

But hey, even the few who feel they must run roughshod over a Democratic government in order to swat a few flies are not all that psychotic. And, of course, we still love them. Lukewarmly.

[chrisa]

19. I don't have an opinion on this.

Not because I don't care, but because both choices ae terrible decisions. On one end, the government shouldn't be telling businesses how they should pay their employees. On the other hand, the way that AIG is paying their employees is tantamount to stealing.

Nobody wins.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Getting republicans to vote for taxes on the wealthy works for me.

[TahitiNut]

37. Grover Norquist swallowed his tongue when the GOPhers voted for the largest income tax rate increase

... in history. :rofl: :rofl:

[FrenchieCat]

43. I think the bloggers that took the game that was tossed at them,

decided to play Sherlock Holmes without realizing that they had been set up.

They loved the game, which is why they played.
They weren't looking down the road beyond the
pleasure of solving a good old mystery!