Way to get back AIG bonuses? RICO prosecution (or threat thereof)

[ShockediSay]

Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organizations Act of 1970

authorizes federal prosecutors to go after the proceeds

of a systematized fraud.

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. Who would you prosecute?

Are you saying the employees who got the bonuses are racketeers?

[HowHasItComeToThis]

23. GRAHAM OF TEXAS AND HIS GANG

[GoesTo11]

2. Follow that investigation to its logical conclusion

and much of the finance, banking, insurance and real estate industry - and from the government - would be behind bars.

So we'd better not go there.

[dysfunctional press]

3. where's the 'systemized fraud'...?

just because they fucked up- it doesn't mean it was fraud.

[AndyA]

5. We don't really know that it was just a fuck up.

Who's to say at this point that it wasn't fraud? A lot of people made an incredible amount of money.

Is it really possible that everyone was just a greedy idiot and couldn't have possibly seen this coming? Some warned this could happen if things continued as they did. So, obviously there were people who were aware of the danger.

I don't think there's enough information at this point to say one way or the other, but I wouldn't say systemized fraud wasn't a possibility at this point.

[Incitatus]

11. Since the government owns 80% of the company

it shouldn't need a warrant to go through all their computers and files, right? Maybe they can find something that indicates they knew what would happen but didn't care because of the short term gains.

[Angleae]

21. You still need a warrent because of the 20%.

Unless you could get every stockholder to give permission for the search, and probably includes all the execs under investigation.

[truedelphi]

22. You don't need the permission of every stockholder.

Especially not if the Obama adminsitration would simply wise up and put the firm into receivorship - then the stockholder status would be much less important, if not non-existent.

[Incitatus]

26. I'm not an expert in corporate law, but

I would think a majority vote would suffice. If it would even have to come to that, the CEO, who would have to take the request of an 80% stockholder seriously, should be able to willingly cooperate with an investigation.

[dysfunctional press]

19. once there's evidence that laws were broken, by all means- charge them.

but people getting outraged without all the facts is pretty stupid.

[ShockediSay]

7. Just because I got drunk and reckless and drove into a crowd

of people, doesn't mean I intended to kill anyone.

[dysfunctional press]

17. that's why you wouldn't be charged with murder.

if there was illegal fraud- where's the evidence?

[ShockediSay]

25. Oh but I would be charged with some level of murder

Maybe not Murder I (homicide with intentional malice aforethought)
but Murder II or some lesser level (most likely, homicide with
reckless indifference)

[Waiting For Everyman]

8. The system IS a fraud. That's why it's collapsing.

There are no assets except paper, built on paper, built on paper. None of it has a value. Explain that.

It's all built on fictional "debt by policy" that was never owed for value never received. All of it's a sham. By design, and execution. All of the players in it are guilty of participating in a massive fraud, and profiting beyond all imagination from it.

Stock manipulation, interest manipulation, manipulation of our laws to enable it, it's all there.

[dysfunctional press]

15. that may be- but it's not an illegally defined "fraud"...

the laws have been set up to perpetuate it.

[mbperrin]

12. I don't believe for a moment that THEY fucked up. They've made many

billions of dollars for themselves and are now getting many more billions for themselves from the taxpayers.

WE have fucked up by allowing these con types to run and prosper, and now we need to investigate, indict, convict, and imprison.


Examples of fuckups:

Guy stands in water, touches electricity, dies.
Guy leaves meat on counter for a day, cooks it medium rare, eats it, dies.
Guy jacks up car to change tire on flimsy bumper jack, car falls on him, he dies.
Guy eats huge meal, goes for swim immediately, cramps, dies.


Examples of not fuckups:
Guy takes all your retirement money, says OOPs, your money is gone, he gets rich.
Guy sells you some new investment idea, goes belly up, your money is gone, he gets a bonus.
Guy takes so much money out of company, company fails, taxpayers give him money, he gets a bonus.


See? Fuckups have consequences for those who fuck up. Cons have consequences for those who got conned.

Yes, RICO!

[dysfunctional press]

16. fine...where's your proof that laws were broken...?

and innuendo doesn't count.

[ShockediSay]

24. Proof? That we leave for those powers of investigation,

those who, with legal authority, may ask questions (where lying answers are themselves crimes), issue subpoenas, and take testimony.

[notesdev]

13. It's called the "AIG Financial Products Division"

and their business was offering insurance with no capital to back it.

Book 'em, Danno!

[dysfunctional press]

18. if laws were broken and proof is presented that they were- then by all means- book'em.

nt

[Waiting For Everyman]

4. Exactly.

Then, we'd get to the bottom of this - the right way.

And it isn't just a similar case, it's the same beast. Wall Street trading has been taken over by the Mafia. Look at Michael Steinhardt and his proteges like Cramer. That is the norm now.

[elleng]

6. Getting to the 'bottom' will be extraordinarily difficult

and time consuming, I suspect. No quick relief in sight.

[bridgit]

9. Better yet The Bible, it discourages irresponsible business practices & usury profits

[Fireweed247]

10. Can we prosecute the entire government?

They are completely corrupt and involved in this whole scam.

[bridgit]

20. Sure...start with Barack Obama

:kick:

[indepat]

14. That all the elements of the economic meltdown had their genesis in systematized

fraud is a thesis that can easily be demonstrated by merely connecting the dots. :P