One burglar shot, another stabbed in Woodbridge

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

Police say one burglar was shot and another stabbed breaking into a Woodbridge home Sunday night.

James Baumann Jr., 28, and Jason Lewis Presley, 32, are accused in a burglary in the 15100 block of Georgia Road about 11:30 p.m. Police say one of them was armed with a knife.

The 41-year-old resident of the house heard the burglars and went to investigate, said Erika Hernandez, Prince William police spokeswoman.

When the victim saw the two men, a fight ensued. Police said the resident grabbed a knife from one of the burglars and stabbed him.

Baumann suffered stab wounds and the victim had cuts on various parts of his body, Hernandez said.

After fighting one burglar, the victim grabbed his shotgun and shot the second burglar as he attempted to run.



http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/one_burglar_shot_another_stabbed_in_home_invasion/31979/


I think I would have gotten the shotgun before getting in a knife fight. Glad everyone is going to be ok. Hope they prosecute the home invaders to the maximum extent of the law.


David

[flvegan]

1. Agreed on getting the gauge first, investigating second.

I see stupid ADP security ads every day here where some idiot is breaking in and the first thing the people do is pick up the phone from the alarm company's call.

[1]

7. ha! and the adp call is within seconds of the break in. the bad guy always runs away...

i am 100% in agreement with my bff flvegan on this one. get your gun. check things out. then pick up the adp call.

i'm pretty sure "shoot the bad guy" falls in there somewhere in the above sentence, but adp has me convinced that the bad guy will always run away upon hearing that alarm go off...

[flvegan]

24. Not even seconds.

It's like *smash* one-onethousa *ring ring*. Please.

And wtf with calling the house first? I get how it works, but seriously...a timeline in real life...

*smash*
ADP calls, phone rings for 20 seconds with no answer
*ADP calls police
takes 45 seconds to get a report to send a car out
*car en route
10 minutes before the cops get there

Going on 12 minutes. Yeah, I'm getting the Mossberg first.

TBH, if I had ADP, why answer the phone? If they'll send the police more quickly if I don't, why answer?

My favorite? The one where the young girl is home alone right after the parents have left. Crim tries to break in, ADP calls and says "okay, we're calling your parents" Wait, what? Why the parents and not the cops? Idiots.

[Maru Kitteh]

12. Not "people" FLV - pretty, well-groomed, delicate white girls.

My husband and I call ADP the WASP virtue alarm company.

[flvegan]

31. I have to think they do the "fire" thing right.

I wouldn't depend on them to save me in regards to a crim invading my home.

God, I hate those commercials.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. They sent a fire alarm in my city to a city in Ohio. We got the call when..

the liquor store across the street saw the smoke. The local business contracted with a company in Ohio. I'm not so sure they are good on the fire side either.

David

[Fovea]

2. My home weapon

is a Colt 1849 model 3 dragoon repro.
It is good that it weighs five pounds.

I taught martial arts most of my life.
That said, I take my privacy seriously.

[petronius]

3. That "attempted to run" could cause the homeowner some problems

I wonder how the law applies to shooting a fleeing person while still in the house, and whether the shooter's injuries affect the interpretation. :shrug:

Glad the homeowner is OK (and I hope he's learned to grab the shotgun before going to investigate)...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

4. Probably pretty safe as long as he was still in the house.

[varkam]

22. Maybe not.

Not for certain on the statute, but if he was trying to get away (ie had clearly signaled a surrender) then the owner might be in some hot water. If a burglar breaks into your house and you confront him with a gun, if he then drops to his knees and puts his hands up and begs for his life you are not within your legal right to then blow his brains out. Normally, all Castle statutes do is authorize the use of deadly force to protect yourself in your domicile and drop the duty to retreat requirement that some states have - it isn't carte blanche to shoot whomever you wish to shoot.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. True.

It will depend on the mind of the homeowner, if he says he thought the guy was running for another weapon and that he was about to pass out from blood loss he'll be fine. If he says I was pissed and wanted to kill that prick then he might be in trouble. The law will sort it out though.

David

[varkam]

36. I think that all comes down to what a reasonable person would think in that situation.

Of course, it depends very heavily on the facts of the situation. Nevertheless, if a reasonable person in that situation would have believed that the perpetrator was signaling a retreat or surrender, then shooting would be murder (or voluntary manslaughter, depending on the jurisdiction).

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

40. Yes but police, prosecutors and a jury will give the benefit of the doubt to the injured homeowner.

It's hard to put yourself in that situation and think what's reasonable when you've been cut multiples times with a knife and are fighting 2 people.

David

[varkam]

42. I think most courts would probably take all of that into consideration.

And I also think that some deference is going to be shown to the homeowner given the circumstances. The only point that I was really trying to make is that just because someone breaks into your house, you don't then have the right to shoot under any circumstances.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. Except in Texas and Florida.

You are correct though. It would be a mistake to act as if you are accountable to no one in that situation. I doubt I would have taken that shot but under the circumstances I wouldn't question the homeowner in this case.

David

[varkam]

46. I'm pretty sure that, even in Texas and Florida, you can't kill someone that's surrendering.

Although, it is Texas and Florida, so I could be wrong.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. More of a joke about the Castle Doctrine than a serious statement.

I try and stay out of both places, so I don't know either.

David

[varkam]

48. You forget that I'm a humorless son-of-a-bitch.

And yes, I try to stay out of those places as well, lest I get shot or wind up on death row somehow.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. Say it isn't so.

[old mark]

38. It all depends on the State, but I'd bet - given that at least one of the

intruders was armed with a knife, and there evidently was an actual physical confrontation, the homeowner will get off. Plus, they broke in at night, when it is more likely people will be home - that usually carries a stiffer penalty than breaking in during the day.

Here in PA, a store owner shot a robber who was on the sidewalk fleeing the robbery. He was not charged.

mark

[NeedleCast]

5. Good

Now the robbers will probably sue...

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. Just more work for medics that deal with fire

Good thing you never talk of health care

Guns?

Wow!!!!!

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Just as the bullet ripped through the skin into the soft flesh of the human

Some people try to justify this

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. The local prosecutor and the police will decide whether it was justified or not.

[1]

10. yeah, better we have more work for coroners, dealing with the dead bodies of home invasions...

Good thing you never talk about poor folks...

you got health insurance, carpenter?

Wow!!!!!

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Good thing you never talk about poor folks...?????

WTF is that statement? Mr. 1?


You don't know me at this site but I know you.

As others do.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. No one died.

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. You are such a medic? Aren't you?

NOt!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. Yes, since 1989. Thanks.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. You apparently don't visit the health forum, I often post there.

[Squatch]

9. Scary. That's the town where I live.

Even more scary, I'm over in Afghanistan and my wife is alone at home with our two kids. Makes you feel kind of helpless.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shireen]

45. thanks for your service, Squatch.

Take care, and stay safe. :hi:

[ConsAreLiars]

11. I wonder why

people like you seize on stories like this to help them feel reassured or vindicated somehow. Have you ever wondered about why reporting this kind of story has become nearly an obsession for you?

It is clear why fear/hate mongers tell themselves this kind on tale at every opportunity, but why do you mirror their actions?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. No.

[ConsAreLiars]

30. Well, I guess I am not all that surprised that

you have never wondered about the underlying causes for your peculiar, and somewhat worrisome to many observers, obsession. If you have no rational reason for this behavior, you might want to take a deep breath, pause a bit, and ask yourself why you persist. And if, as it seems, you cannot help but continue this odd activity, maybe consider the possibility that it is not rational, but instead a symptom of a disorder that needs treatment.

Best wishes. There are ways to get help if you have adequate insurance, and even if you do not.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. Best wishes to you as well.

[Ichingcarpenter]

21. Guns are his penis and he has never seen

what an assault weapon can do on a human, or if he did
he enjoyed it.

Never met a "MEDIC" that dealt with real fire that
would even push this crap that he does.

HE LIKES THE SMELL OF FLESH AND PAIN!

[varkam]

27. He likes the smell of flesh and pain? Come on...

I'm not crazy about guns, but you're just being silly now.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. Small comments from small minds.

Easy to ignore. Thanks for pointing out the obvious though.

David

[Ghost in the Machine]

50. Oh wow.. *another* anti-gun nut with a penis fixation...

.... and who coddles and makes excuses for criminals.. who would have thunk it??

:shrug:

[varkam]

52. Because, as we all know, not wanting them shot in the face = coddling.

[Ghost in the Machine]

53. If you don't want them shot in the face, tell them to stay the fuck out of houses

they have no business being in, trying to take things that don't belong to them.

Pretty simple, right?

[varkam]

58. I'm not disagreeing with you.

Of course they have no business being in someone else's house - but even under the Castle doctrine, you don't have unlimited legal authority to blow someone away. If someone is retreating or has surrendered, you can't then shoot them in the face. That, my friend, would be homicide.

[Ghost in the Machine]

59. I understand what you're saying, too....

I have a friend who is serving 25 years right now because of that. He was standing beside his truck when 3 guys jumped him. He grabbed a pistol from under his seat and shot two of them in the head at point blank range, killing them both. That was no problem, as far as the law was concerned... what got him in trouble was shooting the 3rd one in the back as he ran away.

I still think 'state of mind' needs to be considered and if I had been on the jury, he never would have been convicted. Someone who has never been in a 'kill or be killed' situation really can't come close to understanding the raw animal instinct of survival that comes over you.

[varkam]

25. You know, Dave, it's getting to the point where...

I can read the title of the post and pretty accurately predict whether or not you posted it. Might be selective memory, but I'm 5/5 so far.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. It is mighty fun.

The over reactions that is.


david

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. You know what's really funny.

People like Iching try all these Limbaugh tactics to try and get me to confine these posts to the gungeon because they don't like being confronted with reality. The whole point is to show that while murders, assaults, suicides outnumber the number of reported defensive use of firearms, those defensive uses of firearms are not that rare and those are only the reported ones. The number of crimes that are stopped by a victim brandishing a firearm are likely very rarely reported and then to the police and probably not to a news source. I think the intellectual dishonesty among many people here is absolutely hysterical.


David

[varkam]

35. Well, I wouldn't call it intellectual dishonesty. Seems more like ideological blinders to me.

And it's on both sides.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. I agree.

I post questionable shootings also, you have to take the unjustified with the justified. My only point is that it's a subject worth discussion instead the shouting down that some here try and do.

David

[1]

39. keep on keeping on, dave. the vast majority of us appreciate your posts...

*although i am currently running through the neighborhood trying to avoid skinner and that pizza. dude is like jack bauer. you can't outrun him!*

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. It's easy to ignore small minded people.

[shireen]

44. "shot the second burglar as he attempted to run."

if that shot was deliberate that homeowner is in big trouble. I'm currently taking an NRA home firearms safety class. Shooting an intruder who is fleeing the scene is against the law in most states, and personally, i find it pretty horrible. Let the bastard go; it's not worth taking his life over that break-in.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

49. State of mind will be a big factor.

Without more details it's hard to say. I doubt he will be charged. He was cut and bleeding, fighting 2 younger men. I can't really make a judgement without knowing more. That's what prosecutors and grand juries are for anyway.

David

[shireen]

54. that's true but odds are not in his favor

Unless he has a really good reason for it, firing at a retreating intruder does not look good at all.

Owning a gun is a very big responsibility. The NRA, whatever we think of their management politics, has some excellent firearms education classes. I'm taking my second course right now, and my instructors are amazing. Those classes should be mandatory for all gun-owners.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. I think he'll get the benefit of the doubt.

Whether he deserves it or not is another matter. It would be nice to see every gun owner be responsible and educated in regards to firearms probably a non-starter politically though. I could see it easily being abused to keep firearms out of the hands of the law abiding.

David

[ORDagnabbit]

55. dont commit the crime dont get killed.... pretty easy to understand

[shadowknows69]

57. Sometimes you just rob the wrong house

Case in point.