I liked Obama until he called for lengthening school year.

[willing dwarf]

We all need down time, and kids need it most of all. Time off helps you to synthesize new learning. This idea that to learn more we need to work harder is just really wrong. Being in school is not all there is to learning. There's got to be more time permitted in which students can absorb and grow to understand what they are being taught.

I would have thought Obama realized this! All of a sudden I feel like he's a bit of a scold.

[Posteritatis]

1. What's a typical school year in the States? (nt)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

5. 180 days in NJ

[customerserviceguy]

11. About nine months

Typically starts about Labor Day, in early September, and ends sometime in early to mid June. Of course, there are indeed breaks during the year, usually a week or so at Christmastime, and another week or so in the spring.

But there are some variations, schools in wintry parts of the US have "snow days" built in, and if they are exceeded due to necessity, school continues on in the month of June to make up. In my area, schools are closed during a few of the Jewish holidays, and that extends the year.

You don't get those kinds of breaks again until the end of your career, if you stay long enough at one employer to get the big vacation time.

[Posteritatis]

112. That's about the Canadian average too, including the weather buffer (nt)

[HeresyLives]

2. Education should be year round.

With only two week breaks now and then.

[movonne]

3. I agree with you...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. I concur

[BuyingThyme]

8. No way.

No, no, no, no.

Summer is heaven. Let there be heaven.

[HeresyLives]

13. You see education as punishment?

Education as a prison?

Being out of school is true freedom?

Think where that will get you.

[BuyingThyme]

18. No, but you obviously do.

I said nothing of the sort.

Interesting.

[HeresyLives]

24. No, I see education as natural.

And I see an attitude of 'freedom' being time away from education as dangerous.

[BuyingThyme]

Nope. Not dangerous.

Heaven.

[HeresyLives]

36. Whatever.

[lapfog_1]

59. There are many different forms of "education"

and children need to have time to be, well, children. To run and play and have some fun and to socialize away
from the structure of class.

However, to be competitive, we probably do need to extend the school year by a few weeks,
and possibly even more for kids in the 10th grade and beyond (including college).

But from ages 5 to 14, they need to be kids.

[HeresyLives]

72. This is a recent theory.

In Victorian times kids were in the mines, or were chimney sweeps at four.

School doesn't prevent you from running and playing, in fact it sets aside times to do just that. Unlike those kids who worked in mines.

'Being kids' doesn't mean being kept uneducated.

[lapfog_1]

95. I don't believe anyone here is promoting the theory of

"keeping kids uneducated".

But yeah, kids do need to be away from structured classrooms.

As for them working the fields and coal mines or whatever. That wasn't the case for thousands of years before
civilization. And kids were no longer kids when they reached puberty. They were considered adults and were
treated as such. It is only out modern society that wants to keep them as "kids" until they are 18 or 21 or
sometimes beyond. I understand why this is needed (12 year olds do not have all of the education yet needed
to function in our industrial world). But the under 12 set did not have (when we were hunter-gatherers) a
lifetime of drudge work in the mines or even in the fields. Study primates and how they raise their young.

Anyway, I agree that the school year could be extended. But at the same time, we need to find the
time to send them on more social outings and field trips... ones where they actually have to perform some
task together, with minimal adult supervision and help.

So they can engage in active forms of education.

[HeresyLives]

102. Kids have always worked from the day

they could walk. This is the first time in history when they've had so much leisure time. How's that working out anyway?

We are not in an industrial world, and they are not facing a lifetime of drudgework, which hunter-gatherers, in fact, did.

If classrooms are too structured, then unstructure them, and no one is suggesting we cut off field trips.

[lapfog_1]

113. "The first time in history when they've had so much leisure time."

Well, you sort of have to go back to before history, history is only something like 4000 years. Humans
have been evolving for hundreds of thousands of years.

And it's been working out fine, thank you very much. I lived through it (summers off) OK, how about you?

If we are not in an industrial world, could you please stop using that hunk of technology in your driveway...
and, oh yeah, the other hunk of technology that you are using to post your opinions to the web. Thanks.

Of course we are "industrial"... it's simply some morons who started believing their own hype that we are
now "post-industrial". Post-industrial doesn't make anything... no wealth creation. It's service oriented
and depends on others to make things. Which is, in large part, how we got to where we got right now.

But we no longer employ our kids in sweat shops... we now leave that to other cultures and countries.

But for the vast majority of Americans, kids haven't been in sweat shops OR mines for 100 years, and fields for
something like 50 years (I might have been one of the last).

But anyway, you really need to study the life of primates a bit more. They model closely what our lives were
like before "history" and "civilization". Their offspring do NOT do drudge work or almost any work until
they reach puberty. And even the adults work a lot less than we "civilized" humans. Of course, the earth
can't support billions of them as they tend to only be found where food to gather or hunt is plentiful.

[HeresyLives]

120. People died at 20 in the Stone Age.

So there was no prolonged childhood in pre-historic times. We left it behind for a reason.

Actually it isn't working out well at all today. We have high drop-out rates, and tremendous violence, and a lot of drug use.

The 'hunk of technology' in my driveway is a hybrid. Has been for years. Think you could improve on it instead of trying to revert to covered wagons?

In 1956 white collar workers outnumbered blue-collar workers for the first time in history. Why are you trying to go backwards?

Primates seem to be your ideal, and denying human kids an education for the life they will lead in the 21st century will guarantee that as their future.

[Maine-ah]

181. about the fields...

up in northern Maine, during the potato harvest, they actually shut down school for a few weeks. Kids go and pick potatoes.

[Voice for Peace]

73. Learning is natural, but school isn't.

At least not the way most of the public system is run.

[HeresyLives]

74. Then MAKE it natural.

[Voice for Peace]

155. I'm all for that.

[Lost in CT]

161. Get that graphic to the lounge stat...

They are having a poop outside flame war.

[tritsofme]

20. When you are nine years old and it is sunny and beautiful July day

and you are stuck inside doing school work, you bet.

[HeresyLives]

28. Interesting attitude.

How has that helped your country?

[tritsofme]

43. Whatever happened to letting kids be kids?

You seem to have done fine with your childhood's excessive summer breaks.

[HeresyLives]

47. Kids have a natural urge to question and learn.

By showing them that education is 'prison', and being out of school is 'heaven', what message are you sending them as they grow up?

Then people fret about massive drop-out rates, and wonder how other countries are racing ahead.

[Voice for Peace]

75. THey do have that urge, but it is not satisfied in school, for the most part.

The whole system ought to be overhauled and redesigned. Making kids do more of it isn't going to work.

[HeresyLives]

78. I agree education needs an overhaul.

One teacher, class of kids...not any different than the way schools were run back in Rome.

[madrchsod]

76. i guess my generation were a bunch of losers

who could`t compete with the foreigners....

[HeresyLives]

79. You grew up in a different era.

The world is a different place now.

[vadawg]

85. WTF, so they can only do what helps the country

what next the government mandating an exact education course that all must adhere too, no more home schooling, no private schools or tutors.

[HeresyLives]

87. No, what helps them to survive and prosper.

And in a knowledge economy of computers, robots, bio-med, space flight and so on, fly fishing is a hobby, not a survival tool.

[vadawg]

92. You honestly dont seem to realise that there are whole societies that dont live in your world

societies where being able to discern edible fungi from poisonous ones means more than being able to configure microsoft windows. Being able to catch fish to put on the table means more than being able to quote the classics or do algebra. I am not sure that you realise this or if you are being deliberatly obtuse. My apoligies if there is no ill will.

[HeresyLives]

103. Yes, they are called the Third World.

[vadawg]

107. LOL, and you dont think there are enclaves of the third world here in the US

but ill let you get on with whatever you are working to, not sure why you believe that you know best for my kids but luckily you have no say.

[HeresyLives]

111. Why do you want to harm your kids?

Raising them to live in the Third World is blighting any chance they have to live and prosper in the US.

[vadawg]

115. okay, so because i want to spend the summer with my kids teaching them

teaching them their heritage, the ways their people have survived for centuries, giving them skills that they can use if times are tough, teaching them how i was raised, you think these 2 months or so away from what the schools are teaching them is going to harm them. Wow, i seem to have done okay with less schooling than i imagine most here have had, i have a career, own a house, savings etc and i can still trap and butcher rabbits, know fungi i can eat etc.

[HeresyLives]

116. Being Third World is their heritage?

I don't think so. Nor is some hunter-gatherer version of life.

I'm sure this is all lovely for you, and you don't think it has harmed your life, but your kids will live in an entirely different era that what you did.

And it won't involve trapping rabbits.

[vadawg]

119. wow just wow, you really do believe that you know it all

of course what you believe to be third world is their heritage, this is how we grow as humans, we learn new things but take with us the things we learn from our family and parents. Just because you have never had the need or want to provide from natures bounty does not mean that others are the same. I am just stunned at the arrogance you display telling me that i basically dont have the right to teach my kids about were they are from and were they can go. What next am i not allowed to tell them oral history, or the superstitions unless they are vetted by some school administrator. I am still fecking stunned at you.

[HeresyLives]

122. No, but I do believe raising your kids for the Third World

or the US 1700's pioneering life, in the 21st century, is child abuse.

[vadawg]

124. tell you what, go report me to CPS and watch as they laugh their ass of at you

now i believe that you are wandering into pure comedy, either that or you education is lacking and you are projecting. you really believe that 2 months in the summer having the kids learn stuff that you believe is useless is child abuse.

[HeresyLives]

125. Your kids will tell you when they are adults.

So remember this moment.

[vadawg]

127. lol now you have the abilities to tell the future

if i gather what you are saying, my kids will say i abused them because during the summer, we fished, trapped, cooked, talked, learned old songs, learned family histories, collected fruits, sat by fires at night, made things together. I guess id better just let them play with the Wii, talk on the phone and watch TV then. unfreckingbelievable, i hope to hell you have nothing to do with children in any capacity.

[HeresyLives]

130. When they're broke and unemployed, yes.

But hey, you can always go fly-fishing.

[vadawg]

131. lol so tell me something why am i not broke and unemployed if thats your standard

i have less schooling than anybody i know, and i have done alright. This is also the attitude that causes bigotry against the children of other cultures, this belief that you know best. it still staggers me.

[Lost in CT]

162. There is nothing wrong with parents giving their children

wilderness skills.

[Mother Of Four]

146. So here I am...just hummin along reading this thread...

Alternately raising my eyebrows, shaking my head and then I come across this little gem.

"No, but I do believe raising your kids for the Third World or the US 1700's pioneering life, in the 21st century, is child abuse."

:wtf:

So I guess teaching my kids how to bake bread from scratch, since it's a skill that has been passed on, is child abuse?

Dude, chick, whatever. What are you smoking?

Bodies need stimulus just like your brain. As a matter of fact I was just looking at my 12 year old yesterday thinking to myself "Wow, I can't wait for summer."

Kids get worn down by the end of the school year, they need that time in the summer to rejuvenate themselves and defrag their brains so to speak. There is nothing healthy about being cooped up in a classroom all year round. Or any room for that matter.

Learning skill sets like fishing, camping, swimming, fire making, baking without a box, cooking without a box, how to recognize edibles in nature...that isn't third world education that's just common sense! Yes they need skills that are technological, but what they REALLY need is a balance. If you weight tech ten times higher than the other you end up with a pasty white unhealthy kiddo. Doing things like going to the beach, the imaginarium, sleepovers in the backyard are important.

Learning is learning, whether it's education on life- or technology.

Good heavens, who would want to stunt the emotional and social growth of their child?

I'm seriously hoping I misunderstood what you're saying, and that you wouldn't really want to close a child up in a room 12 months out of the year shunning outdoor education.

[emmadoggy]

156. .

:applause:

[varelse]

188. +1

:yourock:

[babythunder]

208. What about the millions

of kids that don't have stable homes? At the very least school should provide a refuge for children in these situations. Not every child has supportive loving parents at home ready to teach them their heritage.

[sense]

133. how bizarre are you to take that from

the very real thoughts people are adding? Way to contribute.

[rwheeler31]

99. If you catch one you got dinner and a wonderful memory.

[demwing]

190. Fishing is not a survival tool?

So I suppose hunting and gardening are not survival tools either?

We really need to rethink what is important and what is not. Anyone who tells me that learning how to feed your family, without the benefit of a job, is not important, is not someone to whom I need to listen.

[Ishoutandscream2]

91. I saw that Canada's average school year is 190 days

It's 180 days here in the US. Canadian students also have a long time off from school. I guess you must be pretty disappointed in the Canadian school year, too.

[vadawg]

94. Those ten days are were the canucks get their super secret learning vitamins.

damn those pesky canadians.

[Posteritatis]

97. In practice a lot of the country probably ends up closer to 180 after weather

Nova Scotia got its ass kicked this year, and we've had a disproportionate number of snow days as a result. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the longer school years up here were meant to take that into account.

[HeresyLives]

104. Yes, I am.

Kindly stop trying to make this a contest between countries. It's about education for the 21st century.

[Ishoutandscream2]

121. Stop being defensive. You were the one that brought country into

the equation. It was a question, and it was answered.

[HeresyLives]

123. I've said nothing about country.

I'm discussing education. You appear to have veered off topic.

[Ishoutandscream2]

129. "How has that helped your country?" The post I responded to

That was what made me question the Canadian school calendar as well.

[The Hope Mobile]

63. That's how school has been looked at by children and many adults for many generations.

I'm talking about the "being out of school is freedom" part. Its how many adults feel about getting out of work everyday or being on vacation.

[HeresyLives]

77. Maybe it's time to change the

attitude then.

Learning, education, should be a natural part of life. So is work and leisure time.

[lostnfound]

152. Family time, cooking, tennis lessons, reading, summer jobs...

My summers as a child progressed from play-theatre in the backyard, to catching tadpoles, to building tiny boats out of scrap wood, to cheap tennis lessons at a public park, baking on my SuzyBake oven, to reading numerous books by Charles Dickens, to volunteering at the library, to driver's ed, my first job at the library.

.. not to mention thousands of hours of memories with my now-deceased mother, my beloved older sister, and even a few extra hours with my dad whose business was right in front of our house. Considering that I lost both parents by age 23, that time seems pretty damned precious to me. Do you want to take it away from me? From my son?

The education most worth having is the one you acquire yourself.

[hisownpetard]

169. Haaahha. Buying Thyme speld 'Time' wrong!! More ejjukashun wuld be a good aydea.

[TommyO]

22. Summer used to be the time when farming was done

and small farms needed all of that child labor to function, it was not "heaven" for children.

[BuyingThyme]

37. Nor is acid to the eyes.

But what does that have to do with anything?

[wtmusic]

57. Excellent point - the idea that summer should be "time off"

is an accidental result of the urbanization of the American workforce

[willing dwarf]

25. I was begining to think I was the only summer lover out there!

[BuyingThyme]

39. Just another rookie trout fisherman on the bank of a little stream on a hot day.

[hyphenate]

89. One of the reasons summer became time off

from school was because most schools couldn't afford to pay for air conditioning, so sending the kids home was better than the cost of electricity and a/c. Things have changed a lot since those days, and a/c is pretty much standard now.

I think I would prefer longer days before longer length of the school year, though. But overhauling education is as much a pain as overhauling our health care system, and some people won't go without kicking and screaming to prevent any changes being implemented.

[emmadoggy]

134. Actually, a/c is not "pretty much standard now", at least where I live.

Most schools here do not have a/c. It would be an enormous expense to retrofit some of these older school buildings with a/c and the added utility costs would be a huge hurt to already pinched school budgets. Not to mention the added cost of running the buses.

[femmocrat]

176. Absolutely. The costs would be phenomenal.

Don't forget to add increases for salaries for professional and support personnel to that!

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

168. Yeah.. especially for the kids that live in the areas with the long winters.

Maybe in places like Florida where is it warm and sunny practically all the time, all year school with periodic breaks wouldn't be bad. Up here in Maine, kids need to have the time off in the summer to do activities outdoors while they can. All year school would suck here.

[Deja Q]

15. I too concur

[Scout]

16. i've thought that for a long time

except 3 week breaks or once a year a one-month break, then two other two-week breaks.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. I could agree with that. I also wonder about taking the time off

from Thanksgiving to New Year's. Then possibly the month of July...just a thought.

[TheDebbieDee]

27. I agree. The three month summer break is a tradition

in which farm kids were needed to tend to the crops.

With the invention of farm equipment and other modern gadgets, the three month summer break is no longer necessary. It only allows the children's brains to rot!

[anigbrowl]

106. It seems to work fine in Europe

I could point out several countries with long summer holidays that exceed the US in academic rankings. This doesn't strike me as 'the problem'.

[tabbycat31]

53. I disagree

When I was in school there was one very big reason that we could not be year-round. The schools did not have air conditioning except for in the administrative offices. In September and May/June the classroom temperatures would sometimes be above 90 degrees, and no degree of learning could go on in there.

Besides taking away summer would destroy the economy and an entire industry. I live in a very tourist trap town, and if school were year-round, the town's economy would collapse. We rely on families with children coming in the summer.

Another thing. I was a real camp geek when I was a kid. I was bullied and harassed in school therefore it was not "cool" for people to befriend me. All my friends from my childhood were from camp. I don't know what I would have done without them.

[TahitiNut]

100. Yup. Absolutely.

:thumbsup:

[csziggy]

110. During the 70s my sister worked at a school that experimented with a year round schedule

There were four quarters. Students could go all four quarters, and were required to take at least three quarters a year. It was a poor school district with a lot of migrant worker families so offering classes during the time the parents were in the region working and having shorter segments to the school terms fit their lives much better than the traditional school year.

The more standard families like the quarter system, too. If a child wanted and was able to go four quarters a year, they could accelerate their learning. Or parents could take off season vacations with their children which cut costs and reduced fighting crowds.

In addition the facilities get used all year round instead of only part of the year.

[Mamacrat]

148. Great option!

I think the optional fourth quarter sounds like a great idea. Those who need extra help or whose parents are working all day and can not afford to send their child to great camps with wonderful learning experiences would probably love it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

4. I wish, for the sake of the kids,

that school districts would change the time of the the start of the school day. Those kids need so much sleep, and the absurd early arrival times are counter-productive. Kids' internal clocks don't work like that.

But, I don't think kids need 1/4 of the year off. Six weeks in the summer, yeah, I think that's a good idea, but I know from a lot of experience, as a kid and as a mother, three months is just too long and too wasteful. We have a world that's getting far ahead of us, and we need to start catching up.....................

[vadawg]

12. i like the fact that my kids are off all summer, then i can teach them stuff that school dosent

I think the summers are excellent for teaching kids stuff that the school wont or cant teach. my son this year will spend the summer learning to fly fish and trap rabbits, stuff he would never learn in school

[paulsby]

19. i totally agree

i have no problem with some schools having alternative schedules (like shorter break in summers etc.) but personally, i prefer the concept of a long summer break.

some of the best learning i did as a child (and in college) was during summer break.

i disagree that we need to lengthen the school year. we can teach more efficiently. more time in school does not necessarily equal a better education, and imo there is a point of diminishing, and even reverse returns.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

29. Your kid's very lucky.........

but a lot of kids end up with babysitters or just sitting around, while their parents are at work.

You can teach your kid all those wonderful things on weekends and vacations. A three-month span isn't really necessary, is it? Our kids had lots of camping and fishing and hiking experiences, and we did them all year round, since I worked all year round, though their father was a college professor who had the summer off.

Do you get the summer off, too?

[vadawg]

44. no i work all year round but i only work 14 days a month so lots of time off

and yes to really reach a level of skill you need to practice some stuff everyday for a few months. My son will learn more and be better at fending for himself after 3 months, than if i tried to teach him over a longer period.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

101. You work half-time, it sounds like.........

That's a very different scenario from that which defines most families. Everything takes practice, all kinds of learning, and academic pursuits take practice, too. I can understand why you'd want things to stay the way they are, but your situation is, I think, quite unusual.

I wouldn't mind taking three months to practice my fly fishing. The most I ever got was a month on the Snake River in Idaho.

[vadawg]

105. nah i work shift work so i put in around 90 hours a pay period

but i do only work two days one week and five the next week so it works out good. Nice river, someday ill get to fish some of the great trout streams in the northwest.

[HeresyLives]

33. There's a good reason he won't learn

that in school.

But if you consider it essential, surely it can be taught in 2 week sessions.

[vadawg]

46. yeah the schools have their reasons, but these are skills that are passed down.

and someday they may save his life. So i would say it was essential, and no you cant learn the nuances of fly fishing in one lifetime never mind two weeks, but over months you can get pretty good.

[HeresyLives]

49. People don't live like that anymore.

Which is why schools don't teach it.

You are unlikely to return to pioneer days, and pioneers didn't have time to waste fly-fishing in any case.

[vadawg]

56. what do you mean people dont live like that anymore, mayby were you live

i have family still on the long road, and i still hunt and fish to feed my family, and fly fishing is more than just fishing, you learn a lot about nature, about fish and about yourself, all things that can help you survive if need be.

[HeresyLives]

58. You are in the Knowledge Economy,

or the Information Age if you prefer.

Pioneering and the wild west, and all that are over with.

[vadawg]

60. so you say, he can learn that stuff at school, but in worst case scenario

he will be able to feed himself, his family etc. Im sure that all that schooling has helped the homeless guys who freeze to death every year much better than learning to survive as our ancestors did, and some people still do.

[HeresyLives]

67. WHAT worse case scenario?

When will the US go back to pioneering?

After a nuclear war you'd have far worse problems than fly fishing.

And while building a log cabin is nice, the next 'pioneering' effort will be on Mars, where there are no trees.

Best way to avoid being a homeless person is having an academic education.

[vadawg]

83. yeah okay, because everyone who goes to school never needs to know anything other than how

work a computer, or to do algebra. Not everyone wants or comes from a society were nothing outside of what the job market wants is not needed. I think my kids learning the culture they come from is more important than what you believe is good for them.

[HeresyLives]

86. You learn lots of things in a lifetime.

Try to make sure they are things suitable for the time your kids will live in. Not the 1800s.

[The Gunslinger]

88. I agree

There is plenty a kid can learn outside of school as well, and it's just as important. The question is not how long the school year is, but how well they are being taught during the year, and how well are the parents are making sure the kids are doing what it takes to learn.

[Kittycat]

26. My son gets 6wks off, and I think it's ideal.

He's in an IEP program (he has mild CP, and some learning delays). He qualifies for the supplemental summer education program, and we love it. He's off the month of June, then on the month of July and the first week of August, but only has 4 days/week in the summer (3 hrs/day). He really needs that, and I can see where mainstream kids would benefit as well. The summer program is a little more relaxed, but it keeps him from losing/forgetting skills. We also supplement this with a 3 week camp in June, through our park district (3d/wk, swimming one day). I think the exposure to other kids is not only fun, but educationally beneficial for him. Next year he goes to kindergarten all day, part day in traditional AM kindergarten (2.5hrs), then directly in to the diagnostic program for IEP kids until the end of the school day.

Our district also offers a full day lottery for mainstream kids - there are 15 classrooms housed at the same school (makes up the first floor). They have so many applicants that they had to do the lottery. 1/4 of our kindergarten kids are in the full day program. The teachers are able to offer art, music, PE and more time to absorb information in the full-day program.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

96. Wow! That sounds terrific -

you live in what sounds like an excellent and very responsive and responsible school district.

That's really wonderful, what you wrote. You boy can't help but thrive, and I would imagine that three full months straight with nothing scholastic to do would really set him back. Kids need time to stretch out in the grass and see what the clouds look like, but they can't do it for too long without getting up and looking for something else to do.

Congratulations. I'm really glad your son is getting such good exposure.

[theophilus]

6. I think it's.....six weeks then two weeks off or nine weeks and three weeks off

thru the year. It works much better for the ol' noggin'.

[willing dwarf]

9. That sounds good, but I also like the extended summer break.

Having time to be bored is a real value. It's like money in the bank, looking back on the days when you were able too sleep late and get up and do nothing all day long.

[Adsos Letter]

10. Year round schooling...I'm for it.

[Hekate]

14. The US has the shortest school year in the world, actually, and we wonder why our kids fall behind

I recommend "Outliers: The Story of Success" by Malcolm Gladwell. I enjoyed the whole thing, but his take on the education system is particularly poignant.

Hekate

[Posteritatis]

108. Canada's isn't much longer and we seem to be doing disproportionately better

I'd dispute the "shortest year in the world" thing, incidentally; quite a few countries do the "start of September to the end of June" thing that a lot of Canada does, and our school years are only a few days longer on average. Even places like Germany, that do a year-round school year, still end up having three or four months off cumulative. I doubt they spend that many more days in the classroom than Canada or the US do, though they might spend more hours per day (I don't remember their times).

Throwing more time at the problem's like throwing more money at it - neither's a useful solution unless something comes out of what's being thrown. (And you can't do the former without a lot of the latter anyway, so there's a bit of a problem in a country where education seems to be the first priority for budget cuts all the time.)

[rucky]

17. remediation

it's real.

Not only do we have shorter school years than most of the rest of the world, but we have to spend the first 2-3 weeks reviewing what was taught last year.

How come German and Japanese kids don't need as much of a break?

Another thing to consider: Recess is being pulled from the school day at many schools, because of the need to jam more (mandated) curriculum into a shorter period of time. Kids are resilient, but the breaks during the day are more crucial than the need for three months off straight.

[damonm]

31. BINGO on...

pulling recess - that has got to be one of the most asinine things I've ever heard.
Here in CA, we have different schedules in different districts - my boys go in the traditional year, whereas, over the hills, our friends' kids are in a district with a year-round program, getting a couple of weeks off every 6 weeks. Gives LOTS of down time.

[rucky]

54. I taught at a school with no recess.

Imagine what 25 very energetic 10-year-olds were like by 2pm (especially on the 3 days of the week with no PE). Education was not happening. And I needed an edict from the Pope to get the class outside for anything short of a fire drill.

[damonm]

64. Were you on combat pay after noon?

If not, you SHOULD have been.
What blazing idiocy - whoever came up with that policy had obviously never been NEAR a child...

[glowing]

23. It should be year round with breaks in between quarters. The amt of info lost in a child's summer

is something we do not need. Some schools are trying this year round method with successful results in testing. My nephews attend a school like this in NC.. they get 3 week breaks every quarter.

[willing dwarf]

30. If it's lost, it needed reinforcement anyway...

What we need is time for consoldiation of information. Working harder isn't always working smarter. Why don't people get this?

[glowing]

42. Yeah, tell me how many times do you have to show or teach your

7yr old or 8yr old something. How long does it take to train someone at a new subject. School is 5 to 18.. with bouts of pre-school and college for some. I can't remember everything I was taught in college or highschool. People in their lives use all sorts of tools to help them. Doctors, lawyers, economists.. people cannot retain everything.. and when there are time spaces in between, then forget sets in.

[cooolandrew]

32. Being at the school can be the best years of you life depending what you make of >

it so make the most of it really. Barack's main focus is to get it to be the nation to be at the top of it's game. And that starts with investing in the future.

[sense]

142. too simplistic and completely disregards every factor beyond the student.

[Fumesucker]

159. I hated to go to school.. And I was intelligent enough to have skipped two grades..

School was sheer misery, mainly for social reasons, I was bullied unmercifully.

Any chance I could get to not be at at school was a blessing, time that I did not have to be constantly on guard for someone punching me in the back or shoving my head in a toilet.

Until bullying is vigorously controlled school is going to be a form of purgatory for a lot of kids.

My daughter had to go to school and talk the the principal last week because one of my granddaughters is being bullied by two girls, things haven't changed much in that regard as far as I can tell.

[femmocrat]

34. I disagree with President Obama on most of his education policy!

Not only do the children need summer vacation, but so do the teachers, administrators and support personnel! It is STRESSFUL going to school for 10 months with few breaks! And don't forget... teachers must use that time for mandatory certification and professional development coursework!

Furthermore, breaking up the school year would cause so much more time spent on review IMO. The kids just don't seem to recall much of what they learned before the breaks!

Does anyone else remember when summer vacation used to seem sooooo long and lazy? Kids and families need that downtime for vacations, travel, family times, activities and R&R. Not all education takes place in a school building.

[Mamacrat]

150. What about other families?

What about the families who can not afford to send their children to camp or to travel and might not even have good care for them while the parent(s) work all day? I like the idea of an optional fourth quarter with maybe a month at the beginning or end of summer and a couple of weeks at the other end.

[femmocrat]

171. What would they do with the children during those breaks?

Can you even find short-term day care? I really don't know.

Seems like there would be more for them to do during summer break. It doesn't have to be expensive.

[sufrommich]

157. Most kids in the US will be housed in day care centers

during the summer. Very few families have the luxury of relying on one income and summers off . Most of us who remember long,lazy summer vacations came from families where Dad worked and Mom stayed home.It was fun while it lasted (well for us kids,not sure mom loved it so much),but it is not a realistic portrayal of the American family anymore.

[femmocrat]

174. Are day care centers really over-crowded in the summers?

Does anyone here operate one... or know for sure? It would be interesting to find out if there is a huge influx of children into day care during summer breaks. Do we actually have enough day care facilities to accomodate them?

I don't know... I'm just asking.

[Uzybone]

179. Yes they are

most children go to day care during the summer, parents still have to work.

[femmocrat]

197. So... do the parents who want all-year schooling just want free daycare?

Is that why so many are for it? Some are saying that a big advantage is that it makes life easier for the working parents.

:shrug:

[Pirate Smile]

35. That was enough to make you stop liking him? "I liked Obama until"

He didn't say to eliminate summer break. Maybe it just wouldn't be quite as long. I don't think that means kids don't get down time.

We are behind a lot of counties now in education. How are we going to catch up?

Frankly, I think you could easily get rid of the last 2-3 weeks of summer vacation and the kids would be perfectly fine with going back to school.

[IDemo]

38. For a few of us, three months without school was hell

Sick, I know. ;)

[MrPerson]

40. I don't think schools are doing so bad.

Smart kids learn. Dumb kids don't

[sense]

144. You must be a product

of the public schools. That's how much thinking there is in school too.

[MrPerson]

145. 11 years private one year public.

In private school it was more important that you obeyed than learn.

In public school they were just glad you learned.

[sandnsea]

41. These kids go 10 hours a day

http://www.hcz.org/programs/promise-academy-charter-schools

With many of the students spending ten or more hours a day at the school, they are immersed in the school’s culture of achievement and intellectual growth. Today, many of the Promise Academy students feel it’s “cool” to be smart and firmly believe they can and will succeed.

[FrenchieCat]

45. I work at a pre-school/after-school part-time,

and each Wednesday, elementary school has minumum day. That means that kids go to school only 4.5 days per week, and get out of school at 2:45.

I think that's ridiculous.

When I was in school in France, we went to school 5 days a week, from 8:00 to 4:30 p.m.

[grantcart]

55. I agree - it has become outrageous

People in the US have no real idea how 'dumbed down' public education has become - even so called 'good' schools.

[FrenchieCat]

93. Plus, in America, because working adults don't get 3 months vacation....

parents are often faced with what to do with the kids while they go to work. They usually end up having to pay for a great part of the 3 months of having someone care for their kids, or leaving the kids home alone.

[sense]

143. Agree completely.

They will, however defend it to their last breath, rather than believe it. This is what public school has given us.

[steelmania75]

48. Here's a thought

Only those who have a B average or higher can have Summer Vacation and the rest of the students go to Summer School.

[spin]

51. That's the best idea for improving grades I heard so far! (n/t)

[dysfunctional press]

65. even better- test the kids on the first day back after summer break....

those who don't get at least an 85% on a review of the previous school year's material don't get summer break the following year.

[The Wielding Truth]

66. That's a great incentive.

[rucky]

68. why punish parents of good students like that?

kidding.

sorta.

[TahitiNut]

117. I oppose ANY treatment of school as a PUNISHMENT. BAD idea.

In my opinion, the very notion of "summer school" as either punishment or social marginalization as "dummy school" is part of what public education does WRONG. Students with special needs should and must be handled on a continuing programmatic basis.

[DemBones DemBones]

50. Year-round school with two or three week breaks

several times a year would be better than the current system. Kids forget too much over the long summer and they're antsy most of the year waiting for the next holiday/summer.

If they knew they'd have six-nine weeks of school and then a two or three week holiday, they would be better able to concentrate on their studies during that short term and return for the next term refreshed from their holiday. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[tonysam]

185. I Disagree. Year-Round School STINKS. I Did That.

You never feel like you have any break from the kids when you have only three weeks or even a month off, and there is NO evidence kids benefit at all from it.

The reason it exists is not for the kids but that some teachers who should know better like it. They think these frequent breaks are better; however, where I live, two of the three breaks were during times of the year where the weather is changeable and one can't do any real vacations during such short times off.

[Warpy]

52. Kids need down time, but we're no longer an agrarian country

and they're not needed in the fields. A school year based on needing children to help with planting, cultivation and harvest no longer makes much sense. Down time can be accomplished by having two week vacations spaced out during the year.

I've heard too many complaints from kids who dread going back to school because they're afraid they forgot everything they learned the last year. There really is some anxiety there. I think every parent has heard a lot of bellyaching by the first of August that the kid has run out of things to do and is bored, bored bored.

School systems need to learn from each other, though. Year round school was a failure here because none of the vacations were synchronized from school to school. Parents couldn't schedule vacations with the kids because the kid in elementary school had a different vacation time from the kids in middle and high school. Parents rebelled, quite rightly.

Breaking up the school year with down time is essential for the kids and for teachers who need to catch up on continuing education. However, having a three month block of it in the summer is obsolete and serves no one that well.

[etherealtruth]

70. Absolutely agreed n/t

[dysfunctional press]

61. "We all need down time, and kids need it most of all..."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

comments and thinking like that is EXACTLY why our educational standards/levels are dropping like a rock compared to the rest of the industrialized world.

[willing dwarf]

71. If Newton hadn't been sitting under a tree, emjoying down time

he might not have developed his laws of motion; or so the story goes...Constant activity does not equal constantly improving results, although most Americans are determined that hyperactivity and hyper production are the keys to success.

[HeresyLives]

80. He wasn't.

He was working on a gravity question. He just happened to be sitting under an apple tree.

Assuming you believe this story to begin with.

[dysfunctional press]

137. as far as the amount of time spent in the classroom- kids already have too much 'down time'...

i'm not saying that it should be all work and no play- but there's absolutely no justifiable reason for urban/sub-urban kids especially to have a 3-month summer break. we are no longer an agrarian society- and there really is MUCH more to be learned.
and not just by the kids, apparently...

[madrchsod]

62. "hey teachers! leave them kids alone!

all in all,it`s just another brick in the wall..."

[Mamacrat]

151. Love the song!

:toast:

[madrchsod]

69. oh ya...is`t it hot in the summer?

the schools where i live are not air conditioned and would take tens of thousands retrofit. the taxpayers are not going to foot the bill so is the federal government going to pay for all the schools that need air conditioning?

august in northern illinois is`t getting any cooler....

[HeresyLives]

81. Well that's a good excuse not to learn.

But I doubt it will help America's position in the world.

Or a child's life.

[femmocrat]

172. Have you ever tried to teach 30 hot, sweaty kids in a sweltering classroom?

We don't have air-conditioning in our schools here (PA) either. There is very little "learning" going on during the hottest months.

[demwing]

192. Are you a teacher?

If not, why not? Isn't it the best interest of the country for you, with your advanced educational perceptiveness, to help mold the next generation?

And if you are a teacher, in what school district do you teach, so those of us who are amazed at your ideas can opt out and home school instead?

[femmocrat]

196. Deleted. n/t

[demwing]

198. My response was to HeresyLives, not to you

It's been about a year since I was in a classroom. :)

EDIT - as a student. It's been less than a week since I visited the teacher of one of my children.

[femmocrat]

199. Oops. sorry... I'll delete.

Thank you! :)

[demwing]

201. No sweat

and no pun intended :P

[hyphenate]

82. Year round school is a reality in a lot of places, but

not currently here in Masachusetts. Ir hasn't hurt the students on that kind of a school year. There are just so many areas in which a student needs to have some knowledge, far more than there was in my school days. Until we are prepared to face off with other countries like Japan, Great Britain, Switzerland and even parts of China, we need to be competitive, and that means more science classes, as well as more languages and cultural courses.

If we can't or won't give the kids more instructions, we will be compromising their futures, and such things as moving kids up through the grades even without preparation, or tolerate lower grades simply will decrease those students' chances at the best colleges, and hindering their efforts for decent scholarships and help in paving their path to a higher education.

[Politicalboi]

84. I loved summer as a kid

I didn't like school so I saw it as a light at the end of a tunnel. The new old tradition is 3 months off just fucking around not working on the farm. I say let them do some home work online so they don't get too far behind if that's what it takes to give them time off.

[rwheeler31]

90. I would miss summer vacation as a parent. We need down time

with our kids.

[BamaGirl]

98. Mine go the first week of Aug to the last week of May

I think they (and me too) really need that two months off in summer. It's good to have that time they can just hang out outside at the pool and read all day (which is what my girls do). They need the downtime. Plus, the expense of cooling schools here in June and July (added to Aug and Sept) would be astronomical. That money is better spent elsewhere during the school year.

[Silver Swan]

109. Well, I am rather old

but I remember as a child being opposed to a longer school year.

But when I actually started working, in a job not related to schooling, it always felt like it was perpetually March, because I was always waiting for summer vacation to begin, but it never did.

In fact, I can probably owe my second child's existence to the fact that I wanted some time off from work for maternity leave.

So a longer school year might eventually lead to a decrease in population...

(Well, maybe not, but if every woman was like me, it might.)

[BlooInBloo]

114. Teh stupid. Still burning.

[cherish44]

118. I know a teacher who works in a year round district and says it's great

The kids still get time off from school but it's spread out throughout the year. She says when the 3 month summer vacation thing was in effect, she spent the first two months of the school year reteaching everything the kids forgot over the summer.

[lutefisk]

205. How about the same number of days, with shorter breaks between sessions?

That addresses the issue of students "forgetting" over the summer. It's already done in many places, but usually just to maximize the school facilities and reduce overcrowding.

[emmadoggy]

126. Well, I personally like the summer break,

because I feel kids need a break. Could it be a little shorter? Sure, maybe. But as someone upthread said, you are talking about HUGE dollars to make this happen in a LOT of schools. Here in the midwest very few schools have air-conditioning. In fact, in August and early September there are almost always a few days where school has to be dismissed early because of the heat. Same thing usually happens at least once in May. Here in Iowa, most schools start around the 3rd week of August (18-25 or so) and end just before or just after Memorial Day. There are often snow days to make up that get added to the end of the year. So schools would have a huge expense in being retrofitted with A/C, to say nothing of the added utility bills which would add up to a lot, I would think. Schools here are already financially hurting dealing with reduced funds and declining enrollment. Adding such a huge financial burden would be very detrimental.

If my kids had a few breaks during the year - several two-week breaks - I think, what the heck are they going to do for a couple weeks at home in February? When it's bitterly cold and nasty and you generally can't go anywhere anyway? They can't go to the park to play, can't go swimming, and it's often simply too cold and nasty for them to play much at all outside. Here in our house, we don't "do" real vacations. We can't afford it. We try to take the kids to the zoo or some other attraction in one of the two large cities that are nearest us - one is 2 1/2 hours away and the other is 3 to 3 1/2 hours away. It's usually just a day trip, although last year we actually took two days and stayed overnight in a hotel. Most of those types of activities are things that are preferable to do in the summer. Many things can only be done in the summer.
In the summer, they can at least be outside riding their bikes or playing on the swings or kicking a ball or playing catch or running through the sprinkler. I can take them to the pool or the park now and then. We can go visit family (much easier in the summer when you don't have to worry about bad weather and road conditions).

Another problem I can see is in these small, rural areas - every time a two-week break comes up, how many employees are going to be wanting to take time off with their kids? I would think it would be harder to grant that time for employees when you have several coming to you all requesting time off during the same brief period. At least during the summer, employee's time off can be staggered over the course of the summer.

Maybe in parts of the country where the weather is more moderate, year-round school or a shorter summer break makes more sense, but here it would take a LOT of money and hassle and would not have a lot of benefits, IMO.

[HeresyLives]

128. Well, this was enlightening.

:rofl:

In any case, I'm outta here.

[sense]

132. The school year, as is,

makes no sense. It was created in another century to accommodate the farming schedule. Many Children loose a lot of what they've learned over the long summer. If we had a longer school year, punctuated by more, yet shorter breaks, that would help people retain what they learned, give them the breaks they need to integrate it and lessen the need for repetition that bores the heck out of so many kids.

[handmade34]

135. President Obama is a wise man

having taught school for a spell (and raising 5 kids) I have come to the conclusion that we are doing a great disservice to our kids and country by continuing an antiquated educational system. It is no longer early 20th century and we need a 21st century education for our kids. Generally, most schooling I witnessed in public schools was seriously dumbdowned (with a few caveats) and stripped kids of their wonderous curiousity by the time they were in 5th grade. We all need downtime, but not 2-3 months at a time in summer. My theories about educating our kids is radical to some but I see a need for real change. I would implement year round school and integrate the classes(age) just for starters.

[sense]

138. Where have you been?

I really could have used some support......

I home school for academic reasons after pulling my oldest out of 5th grade when he was 8. I've been trying to talk to people here and no one will listen.... Most just keep screaming that anyone who had a bad experience hates all teachers and is against all unions.

Thanks for re-storing my hope that there are other thinking people out there!

Your theories are mine and I'm not remotely radical. Just progressive.

[handmade34]

195. I pulled my oldest son out of 8th grade

and homeschooled him the rest of the year and then was able to get him into a school nearby that suited his needs better. I requested that my youngest son be changed from one 5th grade class to another when his teacher was teasing him. (both eventually excelled and were state x-country champs) There are plenty of both bad and good teachers out there. Any system that takes in kids and groups them and expects equal results can only fail.

I think when we segregate kids by age(grade) we just magnify what I call 'age appropriate misbehavior'. I worked in local schools in a number of positions, mostly working with "at-risk" kids. I witnessed many bright kids dumbing themselves down to fit in, teachers and the system robbing kids of their natural curiousity and wonder by unreasonable rules and expectations(not to be confused with high educational standards) and teachers and other officials at school not taking the time to recognize and understand kids that just needed something that hadn't been identified yet. I didn't fit well into the public school system but know my ideas can't be far from the mark when I witness kids that I had the pleasure(sometimes not so pleasant at the time, but we got through it) of teaching and saw them succeed.

Maslow's theories are spot on and we need to make sure our kids have physical and phychological needs taken care of so they can eventually achieve their rightful place. We also need to integrate our learning institutions more fully with our businesses and create more apprenticeships and do a better job of exposing students to cultures and communities much different than their own. We no longer live in the 20th century and we need to move on.

[anonymous171]

136. Faulty premise. You assume that children learn anything during the school year.

[shimmergal]

139. What 's this about a "3 month summer vacation?"

Here--and most places I know about--the traditional school year now runs from the third week of August thru the 1st or 2nd week of June. That's much closer to two months than three. No long, lazy summer vacations anymore!

Our system does have "year-round-school" in approx. 1/4 the elementary schools. It was NOT started for educational reasons, but for space sharing, to avoid having to build as many new schools. (With 4 tracks, only 3 groups will be using classrooms, desks, books etc. at any specific time.) But most parents and students hate it. It's hard to find a time for family vacations. It's extra hard to make child care arrangements for two- or three-week periods falling at random. And of course with the space-sharing, there's never a space at school that's "mine" for a child.

[Baikonour]

140. There are schools who stay in session all year long, and then take a year break.

I had a friend who went to a school like that. He hated it.

[Baikonour]

141. By the way, summer vacation is not the "wussification" of our children.

Children back in the 1800's had time off from mid-may to August. Why? Because of farming season.

Fast forward 150+ years. Now most teenagers during their time away from school get jobs called, you guessed it, summer jobs. To suggest that the summer vacation is some modern abberation that's causing harm to our children is absurd. Calm yourself down.

And Obama suggesting that we extend the school year is equally absurd. How about we do something about the quality of the school before we discuss the quantity of the schooling, eh Chief?

[sweetpotato]

147. Not knowing anything about this -

Not sure its a bad idea.

When do kids have down time? Aren't there activities out the wazoo for kids in the summer? Don't they just fill time with these activities anyway?

Why not use the summer for things like art, music, sports, in depth sciences, whatever the child has a special interest in? Could this be fit into the plan?

I know - all a pipe dream, eh?

[lostnfound]

149. I respect individualism -- a longer school year is the last thing we need

Do people think kids don't learn anything during the summer? Summer is when they have a chance to learn about themselves -- to learn to swim or play tennis, to select their own reading material and read at will, not in prescribed blocks; to visit their grannies or go on family vacations, to break out of the machine and find out something about themselves they didn't know. My summers as a child progressed from play-theatre in the backyard, to catching tadpoles, to building tiny boats out of scrap wood, to cheap tennis lessons at a public park, baking on my SuzyBake oven, to reading numerous books by Charles Dickens, to volunteering at the library, to driver's ed, my first job at the library. What part of this should have been displaced by more hours sitting at a desk being told what to do and what subject to write or think about? If I had my way, kids would have every afternoon free within an environment where they would have the chance to learn or practice woodworking, canoeing, acting, tree-climbing, cooking, building treehouses, and more.

If Obama wants to improve the educational level of the nation's schoolchildren, a better alternative would be to shut down the Cartoon Network.

***********
http://www.spinninglobe.net/lessons.htm

William Torrey Harris, US Commissioner of Education from 1889 to 1906. Nobody else who rose out of the ranks of professional pedagogues, other than Cubberley, ever had the influence Harris did. Harris standardized our schools and Germanized them. Listen as he speaks in 1906:

Ninety-nine out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual.
******************

Harris was inspired by the notion that correctly managed mass schooling would result in a population so dependent on leaders that schism and revolution would be things of the past. If a world could be cobbled together by Hegelian tactical manipulation, and such a school plan imposed upon it, history itself would stop. No more wars, no civil disputes, just people waiting around pleasantly like the Eloi in Wells'The Time Machine. Waiting for Teacher to tell them what to do. The psychological tool was alienation. The was to alienate children from themselves so they couldn't turn inside for strength, to alienate them from their families, religions, cultures, etc. so no countervailing force could intervene.

[ejpoeta]

153. they don't need three months. i remember summers... by the time i got to the middle of july

i had had enough. I like the idea of a lengthened school year for k-12. A year round school year with perhaps more breaks in between. not so sure about that for college, though. a lot of kids get summer jobs. and increasing the length of the day worries me, as my daughter gets on the bus at 8am and gets off at 4pm as it is. if she has chorus practice in the morning, instead of making her get up an hour earlier to ride the early bus i take her up to the school. another thing with summer is retention. every fall they have to be reminded of what they learned last year in school. And if we DID have a longer school day, I want it to be so that there is more time for physical activity and music and art and stuff.

I don't think obama is being a scold. We are behind other countries. I mean, they teach their kids more languages, a lot more stuff. We do need to teach kids more. That's hard right now as our kids spend a fair amount of time practicing to take tests. I don't think that's the best use of our time, is it??

[BlueGirlRedState]

154. I would like year round school

When I grew up in the 60s, my mom didn't work outside the house and I spent time reading, riding my bike to the library and watching TV. Now I work year round and my husband works year round. Finding childcare in the summer is hard. We usually end up with Extend-a-Care which meets in various elementary school cafeterias and has scheduled swim sessions and field trips. There are summer "camps" at various organizations but they usually only last a couple of weeks, and the hours are 9 to 3 -- sorry, but I can't take off work to take them or pick them up. These "camps" are expensive and my kids don't like learning a new routine and meeting new people every couple of weeks. My 6th grader no longer wants to go to these day care situations but she's not old enough to be on her own.

If we had year round school she would have a safe environment, consistency, friends. She's a top student and the schools would have more time to delve into subjects and make learning interesting.

And we are able to afford at least the Extend-a-Care program, or some other program, but several hundred dollars a month per child is out of reach of some families, so the kids stay home and are either bored to death or get into trouble.

Interestingly, during the heat of the election, she told me all of the kids in her school said if Obama was elected he would make them go to school all year round. I told her that was up to the school districts. But if I had my druthers, we would have all year schools.

[TexasObserver]

158. Labor Day to Memorial Day is all the school year kids need.

It's absurd to extend the school year beyond those dates. Children do not learn more simply because they're kept in school longer. If that were true, students would know more today than they did 10, or 20, or 30, or 40 years ago. They don't. They know less each decade, and part of the problem is the push to teach them more.

[TwilightGardener]

160. They don't need three full months off in the summer. I think 6 or 8 weeks

would suffice. When I was a kid, I was bored shitless by July--there was only so much Hogan's Heroes and Gilligan and Price is Right you could watch. My mom didn't entertain me or "teach" me valuable lessons and skills during the summer, she worked and did housework and generally went about her business, my dad worked, and really, those days were kinda wasted. There's just no reason for a kid to have a solid three-month block of flatlining brainwaves in front of the TV or out with a Wiffle bat whacking grasshoppers and lightning bugs. An extra month of school wouldn't hurt.

[SmileyRose]

164. Depends on where you live.

There are still places in the US where school in dead of winter is next to impossible and others where so many kids help out during the growing season that summers are difficult for school. Seems to me locals should be able to set their own school schedules according to the communities needs. Federalizing a one size fits all for schools did not work for Bush and it won't work for Obama, IMHO.

[TwilightGardener]

167. I'm not opposed to districts setting their own vacation timeframes--

just saying, though, that three full months is excessive--my kids get out in mid-May, go back in mid-August. Yes, we live in a rural/farming area, but there isn't really that much farm work anymore that would require kids to be out of school that long, and I doubt farmers rely on their kids for economic survival like they used to. (Nor should they, really). Those times have passed--most of my sons' classmates kick around and watch TV and play video games, just like my sons do, regardless of whether they live on a farm. It's time for new thinking.

[saltpoint]

163. He's not calling for year-round classes, but is recommending

an in-class hours total correspondent to schools' asking more of students than they currently do.

What I'd like to see happen is a top-drawer comparison study of say, U.S. schools versus European schools, whose students appear to graduate with more learning than U.S. schools, and whether this is attributed to longer versus shorter school instruction hours, better-trained teachers, prior knowledge factors, or just what.

[madmom]

165. Comparing two school districts in my area... one does only what is mandatory

as far as number of days, number of hours per day. The other goes over with both, not by much just about 10 extra days per year and 1 hour more per day.The longer school is persistently ranked higher by the state and since they started open enrollment people are on waiting list to get their kids in.Just saying:shrug:

[lumberjack_jeff]

166. US school provides PLENTY of downtime.

Most US states have established a standard of 180 "days" of instruction. In my district, it seems like at least 1/4 of those days are less than three hours.

Most countries have more than 180 days, and some as many as 220.

Generously, there are about 800 hours of productive instruction occurring in US schools. This compares to 2000 hours in the average work year.

The problem isn't downtime, it's continuity.

[femmocrat]

173. A day that is less than 3 hours would not qualify as a full-day of instruction.

Hours of instruction are regulated by the state.

Not sure what you mean by "less than three hours." Do you really mean that the students are having partial days and counting them as full-days for up to 9 weeks (one-fourth) of the school year? How can that be?

[lumberjack_jeff]

187. I don't know.

I know that during "late start days" (including snow days, teacher workshop days, and doubtless other kinds of events) my son starts school at noon, just in time to break for lunch at school and comes home at 2:50. It's probably more like 2 hours of class time which he usually describes as "having an assembly" or watching movies. On those days, he spends over half of his school day either at lunch or on the bus. I don't know if the day qualifies as "a day" or some portion thereof.

[liskddksil]

170. I think my school district (Westchester, NY)

had a reasonable break system. Last week in June to Labor day weekend was summer break. The middle two weeks in June used for finals and state subject tests (Regents). So your break essentially started when you were finished with finals. Therefore, break was 8 or 9 weeks and the high school grounds is used for a moderately inexpensive day camp for elementary and middle school students.

I don't think a longer school year would really add any additional learning opportunities, but only intensify the languish of students and teachers, that developed towards the end of the school year. For example, second semester seniors already accepted into college had little incentive other than to get ok grades for the final transcripts which their colleges would see. In addition, kids would be less likely to get summer jobs, and go to camps, which are valuable experiences, with a year round program.

[Cleita]

175. I don't know. I always went to summer school to pick up classes that

I didn't have time for during the school year like typing and shorthand.

[SOS]

177. After reading the thread, one missing element

It would cost billions to air condition every school in America from June through Labor Day.
The electric bill would be astronomical.

[LWolf]

178. Lengthening the school year is a good thing;

it's what you do with that time that can be detrimental.

Having worked many calendars, long years, short years, and even open, flexible calendars over the course of my 26 years in public education, I'd advocate for a single-track year-round calendar that gave shorter, more frequent breaks. They help avoid teacher and student burnout, and aid in retention of material learned.

I'd like to see U.S. students in attendance for 190 - 200 days, and I'd like to see them spend almost none of that time doing testing or test prep.

I'd also like to see 60-90 minutes a day of small group "study hall" built into the day, with NO homework.

[Name removed]

180. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JerseygirlCT]

182. We'd probably do as well with a longer school year and

less programmed activity after school. Too many kids are scheduled to the minute every day of the week. Usually at the behest of their parents.

I totally agree that kids need time to "do nothing" or to get really good and bored. That's when you're forced to start thinking creatively. And I'll admit that we're fortunate to live in a suburb and surrounded by kids of the same age. But less tv time, less game time, and more - go figure out how to deal with your own boredom time is a good thing.

Learning doesn't need to be hard or drudgery, either. Kids ought to enjoy that time.

[tonysam]

183. It's Pretty Evident Obama is Clueless When It Comes to Education

Teachers NEED that time off; schools aren't businesses and most of the work can't be delegated in any meaningful way.

Working with kids is tiring, exhausting.

People who talk about lengthening the school year, merit pay, etc., are Business Roundtable types who despise public education.

[TBF]

194. Teachers NEED time off? How about everyone else who works all

year long? Teachers have it easy imo.

[ddeclue]

184. Obama's right... kids in this country have it too easy and the school year SHOULD be longer.

[Cetacea]

206. So they can be driven a little bit more insane.

Fix the lousy system we have first. Learning is supposed to be a natural and enjoyable experience. Fuck the militant style we have in our current system.

[WI_DEM]

186. Isn't he calling for a longer day rather than a longer schedule? I think the kids

will still have their summer vacation, unless they do summer school.

[treestar]

189. You liked Obama only until you disagreed

on something? :wtf:

[willing dwarf]

203. Well I still like him mostly.

He's adorable most of the time. But he does sound pretty overbearing on this in my opinion.

[Jennicut]

191. I hate to say it but even though I loved my vacations I forgot everything

over the summer and I was bad in math, especially by high school. Great in english and all other subjects but math was my weak point. I probably would have benefited from extra school time. I was always bored near the end of summer anyways.

[TBF]

193. Really? You haven't seen the studies indicating that kids forget a lot over the break?

This is one of the few things I actually agree with him on. And who is home to take care of their kids anymore with all of the 2-earner families? All the break benefits is teachers and elites who can take time off to be with their kids.

[willing dwarf]

202. Kids force a change in priorities

I'm sure some will scream that I'm part of the "elite" for being able to make my schedule work round my kids, rather than fitting them into my schedule -- but that's not the case. Before we had kids, my husband and I made a point of finding a house that was affordable if only one of us was working, knowing that we wanted to have kids and wanted to be sure we could afford to be there with them. As they've grown, We've both worked, but we've never both worked full time. We kept our spending low so our debt was low and we've managed to always be there with them. We've never had money to go on splashy vacations or do much more in the summer than a few day trips to the beach, but we've made it work.

[TBF]

209. Sometimes they do if we are fortunate. I've chosen to spend some time

home with my kids as well, and given up some extras. But for many people the 2 salaries do not give them lots of extras, it's the minimum to make ends meet in this service economy. Our children are not keeping up with kids in other industrialized countries, and could use the time over the summer to focus on math, science, and foreign language if nothing else.

[bluestateguy]

200. I agree

Hopefully Sasha and Malia will talk some sense into him.

[lutefisk]

204. If the things wrong with school were fixed to make year round school worthwhile...

...there would be no need to have year round school.

I have seen too many children suffer through the school day in these institutions to support year round school as a national policy.

[Cetacea]

207. Exactly. n/t

[willing dwarf]

210. That's it! You really said it well!