Madoff's World

[Beregond2]

Long article in the new Vanity Fair under this title. Consists mostly of interviews with people who were "taken" by him, who lost everything. My sympathy for them by the end? Zero.

What a disgusting spectacle. Already-wealthy people panting after this slimeball because they heard he made his investors a little more money than they could get elsewhere. Throwing everything they had at a perfect stranger on the off chance he might add a little more to their accounts. And then they expect us to feel sory for them when they lose it all? Why should I feel any worse for them than I would for some clown who bets everything he owns at the racetrack?

You've probably seen the stories about the "first super-model" and how she has lost her life savings to Madoff. Turns out this is the second time she has done this. First she got handed a fortune just for being pretty, which she proceeded to lose. The someone felt sorry for her and staked her to 100K to star over with. She gave that to Madoff, and continued to live high on the hog for many years. I am not moved to tears.

The only thing these people are victims of is their own inflated sense of entitlement. "How could he do this to us? We trusted him!" Well, why? If being rich means you are so smart, why did you behave like complete imbeciles?

Of course it is terrible how this is wiping out many charitable foundations. But again, whose fault it that? These same buffoons, who based their investment decisions on nothing but rumors spreading among "the best people."

Madoff is a thieving bastard; but there are always thieving bastards around. The real question is, what has gone so wrong with our wealthy class, to make them so wantonly self-destructive? Have they become so inbred they lack basic reasoning skills?

I keep picturing that Monty Python sketch about the "Upper Class Twit of the Year" competition.

[Taverner]

1. I don't think anyone "deserves" to have their money stolen

But then again, that's just me

[closeupready]

2. I don't share your lack of empathy.

I actually DO feel bad for his victims.

I mean, I don't understand how you CAN'T. But whatever.

[hlthe2b]

3. yeah, like Holocaust survivor, Elie Wiesel

and his Foundation for Humanity? :shrug: Not all victims are created equal...

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Elie Wiesel, the Nazi concentration camp survivor who went on to win the Nobel Peace Prize, showed little inclination this week to make peace with accused swindler Bernie Madoff, whom he called "one of the greatest scoundrels, thieves, liars, criminals."

"Could I forgive him? No," the 80-year-old told a panel assembled Thursday by Conde Nast's Portfolio Magazine at New York's 21 Club to discuss Madoff, whose alleged victims included Wiesel and his foundation, The Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity.

Then, once Madoff had gained his trust, Wiesel invested all $15.2 million that his foundation had amassed, he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/27/wiesel.madoff/

[Beregond2]

6. I was referring specifically to the people covered in the article.

I think anyone who reads it will share my disgust. And as I said, the loss to charitable foundations is terrible. But why would anyone put that money at risk? To me, that is even more infuriating than those who only lost their personal fortunes.

Investing in the market is ALWAYS a gamble, no different than any other form. If you choose to gamble with your money, fine; but then you have lost the right to complain when you lose. And if you go so far as to hand your money - let alone the money a charity is dependent on - to a stranger, just because he has a smooth line and your friends are all doing it, then no; I feel no sympathy for you. You were stupid and irresponsible. Did you DESERVE to have your money stolen? Of course not. But you sure did everything possible to ensure it would happen.

[closeupready]

9. I read the article last week, and I didn't feel disgust.

:shrug: I do agree that as you get closer to retirement, you need to steer away from risky forms of investments, but that still doesn't mean I wouldn't feel bad for people who endure loss. If you read the article as you say you did, you realize some of these people are now literally left with NOTHING, which is probably less than what you have.

[hlthe2b]

10. There is reason to believe these people were foolish, BUT

your lack of sensitivity or compassion is what is difficult to understand. Take, this case (in addition to Wiesel):

Thierry Magon de La Villehuchet, chief executive officer of Access International Advisors, which managed $3 billion, was driven to suicide because of his firm’s Madoff- related losses, his brother, Bertrand Magon de la Villehuchet, said in January

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=arlJGM_6.zsM

Foolish or not in terms of business, I think most people would have at least a modicum of sympathy for these victims. Do you not?

[earth mom]

4. Greed Greed Greed. The entire country is sick with it.

The question is who are the REAL victims here?

It's hard to feel sorry for the rich when they made their money off the backs of the middle class, working class and poor.

Those are the people who now are going to be paying for all that greed with jobs and homes they worked their entire lives for. :grr:

[Bicoastal]

8. I don't share your disdain of rich people as a group...

...because it doesn't seem any less repugnant than rich people who turn up their noses at the middle class, working class and poor as a group.

Some rich people deserve their wealth and some don't--just like some people deserve to be poor and some don't. Except for extreme cases, who are we to judge?

[Bicoastal]

5. This post may be more revealing then you might think, Beregond2.

It sounds as if you're implying that these people deserve no sympathy for losing their life savings because they were wealthy and trusting--in a word, suckers.

That's A LOT like what Bernie Madoff's mindset must have been while he was robbing them.

Besides, I know of at least one victim who is far from the inbred "Upper Class Twit" model you employ--Elie Wiesel. The guy worked his entire life to get to where he is today and suffered more than you and I could possibly imagine. To see him and his Foundation taken advantage of by a snake like Madoff, who used his background and stature within the Jewish community to rob a Survivor and Nobel prize winner blind--there's no words for that.

Or am I a bleeding heart?

[Beregond2]

7. See my reply above.

[Bicoastal]

13. The above post, though, still smacks of the con man mentality...

...where the victims are simply "stupid and irresponsible," and are thus deserving of their fate. But who gets to judge that? I've lost money before, and so have you--not extremely large amounts, but still. We've all spent hard-earned cash on products that were completely worthless; we've all loaned people a few bucks when they had no intention of paying us back; some of us have even spent a few simoleons in places like Vegas and Atlantic City. Were we stupid and irresponsible? Sure--and I bet we've kicked ourselves for doing so.

But the danger signs are never as clear before the con as they are afterwards. Madoff crime was of such a staggering magnitude--the largest investor fraud ever committed by a single person--that I think many victims just couldn't believe that a person as established and well-respected as he was could be a complete and total crook. Some victims are still fairly well-off, just as they were before the scandal. Some victims started their lives with nothing and will now end their lives with nothing. But they all got taken, not by an obvious fraud, but by the biggest fraud the modern world has ever seen; if he hadn't been so good at being bad, he never would have been able to get away with it for so long.

Bottom line: no should be faulted for underestimating the amount of cruelty people are capable of.

[wackywaggin]

11. No you are honorable, Sir!

This blame the victim individual is simply ridiculous and does not deserve a response.

[louis-t]

12. Wow, the super model story is interesting.

Why didn't she just go to the track with it? Or a casino?

[Mme. Defarge]

14. While it is hard to sympathize

with people who bought into the whole status aspect of investing with Madoff, I believe that the real culprit is the SEC. For our society in general, and financial system in particular, to function properly, we need checks and balances. If "caveat emptor" is the rule, then we are all in trouble -- especially if we think we are protected by regulations, when if fact we are not. Investors have relied on regulations and regulators to protect them from these kinds of scams and were let down.

[backscatter712]

17. Exactly. The SEC has been asleep at the switch!

Wall Street is completely infested with fraudulent and predatory behavior. It's the SEC's job to weed out the bad actors and enforce rules of the road, so normal people can make their investments and have something to live off of in retirement.

The Bushies have politicized the SEC, just as the politicized the rest of the .gov, and they've been turning a blind eye to the Bernie Madoffs and Ken Lays while they robbed all of us blind.

Understand that it's not just multimillionaires that got robbed. We all got robbed. Charities like Eli Wiesel's Foundation for Humanity got taken for everything they had. We, the taxpayers will be footing the bill for a lot of the losses.

Any wonder that I'd like to see Madoff get roasted in the Brazen Bull? Hell, they should take Wall Street's famous Charging Bull sculpture and convert it into a Brazen Bull so Madoff can be made example of...

It was the SEC's job to catch assholes like Madoff before they caused too much damage, but they weren't doing their jobs.

[Mme. Defarge]

18. Told to stand down. n/t

[KharmaTrain]

15. People Were Pitched On How "Safe" A Bet This Was

I'm not very sympathetic to those who got taken, but I can understand how they got sucked in.

In recent years many financial planners and investment brokers were encouraged to pitch higher yield "vehicles"...instead of getting 5 or 6% interest, these investments offered 10, 15, even 20%...depending on your "risk" level. The clincher with a Madoff fund was that it had developed a track record...years of double digit gains. No one ever lost a dime and everyone was making money. The temptation was too great for too many. While they knew the risks, they saw the track record and figured that if others had taken the plunge and come up big, so could they. Once they were in, they got hooked. No sooner did they see bigger dividends, but they were encouraged to double down...if you made $15,000 on your 100k, imagine what you'd make with 250k. And so the game went.

Madoff looked golden. He had high ratings and no real red flags that would tell an investor his plans were con games. Surely if this were some scheme it would have imploded or been exposed. Or so they thought. Add to that an impressive client list, which I'm sure was rolled out to seal the deal...and, well, if was good for Steven Spielberg or Ellie Wiesel...it was good enough for me.

IMHO, there are many victims that took the bait and, like those who got sweet talked into sub prime mortgages, trusted where they should have questioned.

[backscatter712]

16. On the bright side, Madoff's world just got a lot smaller.

Now it's about 6' by 9' with a hard bed and a sink/toilet...

[hugo_from_TN]

19. The ones who lost it all broke two of the most basic rules of investing:

- Diversify your investments.
- Don't invest in anything you don't understand.

That said, greed is one of the most common human weaknesses.