Note to Americans: ... the sky did not fall

[cboy4]

Why is America so backwards when it comes to teh gays? Gays in the military, gays getting married, gays not being protected by a employment non-discrimination act, housing protection, etc., you know, we're are no different than Iran or North Korea.

And that's disgraceful. No? And obviously the Canadians think the whole thing is ridiculously amusing.

==========================================================================================

Note to Americans: Canada resolved the contentious issue four years ago and the sky did not fall

By Leonard Stern, Canwest News Service
March 11, 2009 1:06 AM

With almost four years having passed since we resolved the same-sex marriage question, it's hard to remember there was controversy in the first place.

The debate wrapped up without drama. Parliament passed the Civil Marriage Act on June 28, 2005, Canadians said okay, and the country went back to its business.

It's amusing, in a been-there-done-that sort of way, to see our American neighbours in the throes of internecine battle. A number of states have passed divisive declarations banning gay marriage. For all his supposed liberalism, even Barack Obama is conflicted about gay marriage. Many Americans seem to feel that gay marriage is a radical and dangerous proposition.

The Canadian experience shows that those anxieties are misplaced. Our social fabric hasn't unravelled. Canadian children aren't being damaged -- or if they are, it's because they play too much Grand Theft Auto, not because bed-and-breakfasts in Victoria are hosting gay wedding parties.

The debate is heating up in the U.S. because that country is on the cusp of an attitudinal shift in favour of gay marriage. Supporters are thus emboldened as they gear up for the final push that will put them over the top. Opponents are digging in; the flurry of no-gay-marriage initiatives represents a last stand.

http://www.vancouversun.com/Life/Note+Americans+Canada+resolved+contentious+issue+four+years+fall/1376887/story.html

[cali]

1. You're propensity for absurd hyperbole damages every argument you

make- and I agree with your arguments. Sans the hyperbole, that is. No, sorry, The U.S. when it comes to the treatment of GLBT folks is not equivalent to Iran. I confess to not knowing much about N. Korea's treatment of GLBT folks, but I know enough about Iran's to know that such a comparison is absurd.

[cboy4]

5. Since you know enough about how Iran treats gay

people, tell me Cali how Iran differs from the United States to the examples I pointed out.

It's far, and I mean far from absurd to say there are similarities when it comes to marriage, serving in the military and human rights related to equal protection.

Now think carefully before you lash out at me, and tell me specifically how Iran is worse.

[cali]

8. Sure. No where in the U.S. can you be prosecuted for being gay

let alone be put to death by the state for it. You can compare anything to anything but that hardly makes said comparison valid. You want specifics? I gave you the most important specific, homosexuality is not illegal here and it most certainly is there- and with horrific repercussions. And no, illegal gay bashing is not the same thing. The key is that anti-homosexual discrimination is state codified in Iran. Are you actually going to make the pathetic argument that it's no worse being gay in Vermont- or Oklahoma, for that matter- than in Tehran?

Please try using some critical thought before ruining your own argument.

[cboy4]

11. FAIL. I said using the examples I put forth, how are we different,

than Iran when it comes to marriage, military, ENDA, housing and you decided to start discussing Sharia Law.

That wasn't what I was talking about.

Did you want to try again Cali and follow my instructions this time using the examples I laid out?

Try saving your snark until you pin me into the corner.

Otherwise you just look silly. Like you do now.

[cali]

12. Are you truly that dense?

When you can fucking be killed for being gay, to say that because the U.S. does not have uniform protections against housing discrimination against glbt folks, is just, well, insane. And that's precisely how you look in this demented diary with your delusional comparisons, dear.

[cboy4]

13. Let me break it down for you Einstein

Marriage Legal?
US: No
Iran: No

Serve in the military legal?
US: No
Iran: No

Protection from being fired for being gay
US: No
Iran: No

Protection from being denied housing for being gay
US: No
Iran: No

===================================

So, smart ass, who thinks she's more of an expert on LGBT issues than me (pause for laughter), tell me how the U.S. differs from Iran regarding those examples, which are the ones I pointed out in my OP?

Right, they don't. FAIL.

I fucking realize that you can be hanged in Iran for Sharia. That's not what I'm arguing.

I'm talking about basic laws that are on the books in Western countries like Canada, Spain, Netherlands, Norway, etc.

=======================================

Did you wanna try again? You've prolly said enough.

[cali]

14. Let me break it down for YOU, genius.

Iran: Being openly gay is strictly against the LAW. The sentence is death.
U.S.: Being openly gay is legal in all 50 states and territories. Laws regarding marriage, employment discrimination, vary from state to state. Serving openly in the armed forces is barred.

The U.S. is deeply flawed when it comes to equal rights for gays and lesbians, no doubt about that, but it's simply silly to say that it's as bad as Iran on certain deprivation of rights. Why, genius? Because if you're under threat of DEATH- you are able to grasp the concept of death, aren't you- whether or not you can serve in the military openly, becomes rather irrelevant. DUH.

[cboy4]

17. Stop expanding on my examples cali....You're having to

expand in order to dig your self out of a hole.

The bottom line is it's illegal for gays to be married in the United States and it's illegal for gays to serve in the military.

I'll slice my examples in half for you to make it easier to comprehend.

There is no fundamental difference between backwards Iraq and the United States when it comes to that.

You can go on and on all you want about Sharia, but I'm talking core, fundamental rights without discussing punishment.

There is no difference between the two countries. Marriage and military both ILLEGAL. The two countries are NO DIFFERENT.

That's the point.

Happy to explain it to you again for the 500th time.

Now then, this is the part when you go off on a tangent and discuss information that is not applicable to my core examples.

Is that what you plan on doing??

[cali]

20. LOL! You wrote a ridiculous OP. I called you on your piss poor comparison

and you're not happy about it. And as another poster pointed out, your OP was poorly written. You're the one furiously backpedaling, dear.

And a core fundamental right is LIFE. Duh.

[cboy4]

21. See, even when I break it down, you still refuse to acknowledge

the point I'm trying to make.

Your strategy, point out fault in wording and pepper it with a "dear" here and a "duh" there.

And you're so correct ... how dare I try to weasel basic human rights as a "core" fundamental right.

Thank goodness there are straight people around like yourself, to tell me what I am and am not entitled to as a gay.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Your OP was badly expressed - it didn't say that was the whole list

You said:
"Why is America so backwards when it comes to teh gays? Gays in the military, gays getting married, gays not being protected by a employment non-discrimination act, housing protection, etc., you know, we're are no different than Iran or North Korea."

You didn't specify "In the areas of: gays in the military, ..."; you just said "when it comes to teh gays"; you left an "etc." at the end of the list; and then said "we are no different than Iran or North Korea". Thus, it looked like you were talking about the treatment of gay people in general.

Sure, you then restricted the areas of discussion from reply #5 onwards, but cali's criticism of your OP was valid.

[cboy4]

19. Ok, that's a fair point...I goofed up puting in an "etc.," which

opened the door to a comparison of all gays issues.

And obviously, I think gay people have it better off here than in Iran or N. Korea.

However, as you pointed out, I clarified what I was talking about (restricted the areas of discussion, to use your words), but cali prefers to be difficult and ignore that.

Cali is free to point out what you did about my OP, but once I clarify, and restrict, it seems the right thing to do is talk about that.

But I'm used to her provocative posts .. she intended to be difficult from the start. All one has to do is read her language.

[Crabby Appleton]

22. You've said it yourself

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2991950

[cboy4]

25. Yea, Iran is worse over all....but when it comes to banning

marriage and military service .. absolutely no difference.

[marmar]

2. Because pragmatism reigns in Canada and Western Europe, not Puritanical silliness.....

..... the influence of fundamentalist religious types is certainly starting to weaken, but the crazy old dogs still bark too loudly in this country.
These dogs need to be put down. (Figuratively, of course.)

[Vidar]

24. You are correct-- unfortunately for us.

[Belial]

3. Yes they did manage this quite well..

although I would be a little more careful with this comparison.. "you know, we're are no different than Iran or North Korea." I would say we are a lot different

[cboy4]

6. We're no different to the examples......not as a whole,

but to the examples I pointed out, we are no different.

Please tell me how I'm wrong about that.

[LeftyMom]

4. No rain of frogs, no rivers of blood, no cats and dogs exchanging knowing glances across a room?

That's not what my pastor said, heathen. :grr:

[cboy4]

7. What are you doing up!!?

:pals:

[LeftyMom]

9. I heard you called me "nice" and I wanted to defend myself.

No really, just insomnia. :pals:

[cboy4]

10. HA. I don't blame you.

;)

[Arugula Latte]

16. Uh oh ...

The freaky lovin' is starting, thanks to Teh Gays!!!

[LeftinOH]

18. ..and Canada is paying the price for this outrage:

Nearly the entire country has been plunged into a frigid winter.

[Starry Messenger]

23. k & r.