What makes men go on shooting rampages?

[Philosoraptor]

I've always wondered.

[sendero]

1. Humiliation n/t

[ck4829]

2. In Indonesia, it's considered a syndrome, and it's called "amok"

Running amok, sometimes referred to as simply amok (also spelled amuck or amuk), is derived from the Malay/Indonesian/Filipino word amuk, meaning "mad with rage" (uncontrollable rage).

The word was in use in India during the British Empire, originally to describe an elephant gone mad, separated from its herd, running wild and causing devastation. The word was made popular by the colonial tales of Rudyard Kipling.

Although commonly used in a colloquial and less-violent sense, the phrase is particularly associated with a specific sociopathic culture-bound syndrome in Malaysian culture. In a typical case of running amok, a male who has shown no previous sign of anger or any inclination to violence will acquire a weapon and, in a sudden frenzy, will attempt to kill or seriously injure anyone he encounters. Amok episodes of this kind normally end with the attacker being killed by bystanders, or committing suicide.

The syndrome of "Amok" is found in the DSM-IV TR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runs_amok

This is very interesting stuff.

No woman has ever been known to go "amok"
And since Indonesia is mostly Muslim, and Islam says one can't commit suicide, then this might be a way for men to find death

[MindPilot]

3. frustration, hopelessness, anger, fear

and of course just plain old out-of-touch-with-reality crazy.

[havocmom]

4. Always wondered about "YES, I am in control of you!" syndrome

Seems some will do anything to maintain their delusion that they are in control of others.

We don't do enough, as a society, to look after mental health and promote good coping, problem solving skills. Such rampages are a sad, but predictable, result.

[MindPilot]

13. I don't think control of others so much as control of the situation.

Men are still expected to be the bread winners, head-of-household, and the solvers of problems. And when things like the economic situation spin completely out of control, some snap.

You are right; there is not nearly enough support or education out there for people who are close to the edge.

And sometimes the guy is just an asshole and nothing will change that.

[havocmom]

18. Sorry, but I have worked with too many domestic crisis types, and have seen too much

To much 'control' issues taken out on individuals. I understand your point about situational stress and inability to fulfill role expectations. But I know more than I wished about incidents where it was personal and the attacker just wanted to make sure the other parties lost their ability to control their own lives. Yeah, that would fall under the asshole category, but damn, there are too many cases of asshole control freaks going berserk.

[DrDan]

5. women are susceptible to all of those

there has to be more.

Isn't the whole 2nd amendment thing a macho-man thing? A lack of testosterone? A societal-based need to appear strong and manly?

[One_Life_To_Give]

8. Rage and Testosterone

I am reminded of a statement by a Trans-Man that until he started Testosterone he never experienced Blind Rage. Coupled with societal pressure/expectations?

[DrDan]

11. wouldn't it be a facinating study to look at the level of

testosterone and political party membership.

Look at who loves war, uniforms, gun ownership, and elects a wrestler and a body builder to prominent positions.

[Kalyke]

25. And you know that time of the month for women?

Our estrogen levels decrease, leaving us with more testosterone and progesterone.

In other words, when a woman gets a bit cranky just before her period, she's really only acting like a man.

:D

[Triana]

31. Yep. That is the truth! n/t

[juno jones]

35. A wise old druid

I once knew opined that women were lucky. They only had hormone problems monthly. Men tripped on those hormones 24/7.

[One_Life_To_Give]

41. A Trans-Man would be familiar with that I think

Since they have historically not been allowed to transition till 18. And estrogen blocker therapy is relatively recent I think. Hence he was probably quite aware of and able to comment on the difference between Estrogen level mood swings and the effects of higher (typically male) levels of Testosterone.

[seabeyond]

10. generally... women internalize these emotions and do damage to self, men

let it out externally...

i see a shift in female though

[AllentownJake]

24. Its also easier for a woman to get help

If a woman is on the edge you will never hear someone say to her be a man.

[seabeyond]

33. you are absolutely right. and maybe that is the cause and not innate

maybe the way we raise our males (which i am totally opposed to and refuse to do with my boys) is why the male explodes externally. i think the girls have, be nice, DON'T get angry, be a lady and they have to repress their anger not showing it ergo strike within. culture.

i just had a blow up with 14 yr old son over shorts/jeans in cold weather and though little, it was a perfect example. he went into the pounding fist on table, sticking chest out and refusing. growing up in a home of testosterone male i did opposite of expected role of female and took challenge extending further, threatening. lol.

5 minutes later we sat and discussed action/reaction and a respect for position son took and courage to stand up.... i can appreciate. still wearing jeans. (they are a tad too short, ergo the strong feelings)

but i think why we know it is not innate is you are seeing the female walk away from the be nice crap, not allowed to be angry, and you are seeing the younger girls externally showing their anger, frustration and fear more like male.

it is to protect vulnerability. and i tell hubby, the protecting our perceived vulnerability is our very vulnerability. if one embraces that vulnerability, acknowledge and let it be visible, it truly is not a vulnerability anymore. it cannot be.

[AllentownJake]

19. Women aren't under the pressure men are from a society perspective

Men are supposed to be in control at all times, be self reliant, not show emotion, provide for stability for their families financially and emotionally, sacrifice themselves etc.

Women on the other hand can cry, get support from another person, ask for help, break down, etc.

In short women are allowed to show weakness men don't feel they can.

Remember during the Primary when Hillary teared up and she shot up a few points in New Hampshire. If Barack had done that he would have been done. Ask Muskie.

[BobRossi]

6. Tiny peckers.

And smaller wills.

[zeemike]

7. Popular culture...TV

We have been fed the image of the hero as Rambo seeking justice through violence for many years now.
Violence is pervasive in all of the media from video games to movies and of course the tube.
And now with shows like 24 even torture is a tool for the hero. So it does not surprise me to see people shooting up a church of school.

[PeaceNikki]

9. They have the same TV shows and movies in other countries and gun violence is less of an issue.

Like Canada.

I don't think TV and movies and video games are to blame. I don't know what is, but I don't think it's entertainment.

[Cassandra]

14. Michael Moore suggested that it is local news...

and its drumbeat of fear about crime that gets people so paranoid that they feel the need to own a gun for protection, as opposed to hunting.

[zeemike]

20. Is it because there are fewer people there

or you saying that it never happens there?

[PeaceNikki]

22. Are you familiar with the term "per capita"

[havocmom]

23. thinkin if we look at the numbers, the PER CAPITA rate will be lower in Canada

[zeemike]

26. Do you have those numbers?

Or are you just guessing?

[havocmom]

27. Not off hand. But it is commonly held knowledge the US has higher PER CAPITA violenc rate

than most other western, industrialized nations.

The point was PER CAPITA, so the 'lower Canadian population/lower numbers of violent crimes' angle has no merit in the argument.

[SheilaT]

37. If it were only an outcome of

popular culture and mass media, such outbreaks would be brand new since movies and TV. Reread the post above about running amok.

[seabeyond]

12. mama telling boys they have to wear jeans and not shorts in 20 degree weather

and growing up messed up.

that echoing in their head for life

would think it was the end of the world this morning. we have had warm weather for a good month and kids have worn shorts. next three days cold and they have to wear jeans. O.M.G. the world as we know it is over

[MindPilot]

16. Ha! tell 'em they are lucky our generation already fought that battle

or they would be going to school in dress slacks, white shirt and tie. In August. With no AC.

[seabeyond]

17. lol.. along with no vacations, walking to and from school uphill both ways

in blizzard conditions.... lol.

i will let them know that one too.

[havocmom]

28. well, we girls couldn't just pee out the door on those blizzard days

If ANYBODY should be loosing it regularly, it should be the gender that had to traipse out in all that damned cold and drop our bloomers to pee! ;)

[havocmom]

21. Misogyny seems a likely hook to hang some of it on. Cultural history of blaming Eve

So much easier to just blame the other than to accept disappointment and constraints? My dad hated women. Never (to my knowledge) hurt one physically, but boy he did a lot of emotional violence to a bunch of them. I have had an interest is such behavior as a result (and self preservation skill) and notice a lot of emotional violence done in our culture too.

And yes, I know females do sometimes generally hate males and go about hurting them. But we don't have a commonly used term for that. It might be due to the lower numbers? I dunno, but I enjoy reading your take on such issues.

[seabeyond]

34. i am just seeing it more and more today

it makes me so angry. not sad, but mad. i watched a video on cnn yesterday. this guy got a naked picture from girlfriend. broke up and spread around school. she was harassed and bullied for months, resulting in her finally hanging herself in her closet at home for her mother to find. a beautiful girl.

he might as well been holding a gun at her head and pulled the trigger, with no thought what so ever with what she was experiencing, feeling.

back in the day, a father would have taught son that some things are held close, even after a break up. for a "man" he kept mouth shut. was respectful, always. that was about HIS character, not even about the girl. today... the fathers take 10 and 12 yr old sons to hooters and ssssshhhh, dont tell mom, or xwife. i see a lot and i am not exaggerating, but a lot of divorced fathers taking young sons to hooters to "bond" with sons at expense of female. this is what our fathers teach today. in the past it was character, not so much now.

i find it so interesting because i am seeing such an escalation thru the bush years and also on the side of our "liberals" fucking up our youth and i project all this will just get much worse for both genders. we refuse to address, we ignore, deny for agenda sake and in the meantime our youth will suffer the repercussions.

sons and i had long conversation yesterday about character, leadership in their school, standing up and speaking out, the importance. and then i had them watch the video last night.

[ejpoeta]

15. i'm gonna gues desperation. like a cornered animal. I just don't understand it myself.

[leveymg]

29. Guns are more available than rocks in America.

And, take less intelligence to use.

[tekisui]

36. +1

[AngryAmish]

30. They don't like Mondays

whoops

[Fumesucker]

32. A desire to inflict the pain they are feeling onto others..

I'm sure it is a combination of a lot of things but I'd be willing to bet that most if not all rampage shooters are in incredible emotional pain for whatever reason.

Men are not allowed in our culture to show pain, it is considered a sign of weakness by many for a man to cry while exhibiting anger is culturally acceptable, even laudable in the USA.

Misery loves company and when you feel like your heart is being torn from your chest but your cultural conditioning says you may not exhibit pain then anger is the choice du jour.

[Orsino]

38. Feeling powerless.

It's an admission of failure, though not a conscious one, I think.

[Javaman]

39. Check out the movie "falling down" with Micheal Douglas.

Good movie, bad ending, but never the less a little hollywood type peak into why men go loony.

[seabeyond]

40. i thought that was a good movie.... n/t