Talk of violent revolution...

[nadinbrzezinski]

so four years ago many of us were worried about the bushies (and the memos proved we were not paranoid)... and some of us looked at leaving... others looked at hunkering down

Well back then I made the prediction that once the RIGHT WING lost power, they were so close to reaching their goals they'd see only one choice left.

Well these days we have the leaders of the movement using the language of violent revolution

The head of the NRA at CPAC telling us that the lesson the founding fathers learned was that those who got the guns made the rules... nothing farther from the truth... but consider what he said... read this again... the law is made by the force of a gun.


Then we have had savage and others talking of the need to go to arms if need be. He's not gonna lead it, but he won't complaint too much if this actually happens... so if and when another McVeigh blows a federal building, as long as it is full of libbies he's fine with it. Now there is freedom of speech, and then there is incitement... small, but critical line...

Of course other leaders of the movement have been using this language of revolution and now we have freepers and others talking about patriotic revolt, and organizing cells for the resistance....

Don't know about any of you... but I don't any of these people lightly. This is no joke, and it is the language of civil war... the hot kind.

Me... well I know that something will soon give, and it will not be pretty. I fear.

The logical end to a decade or more of this kind of talk and killing libs condoned by the radio heads...

Oh well, I know that in some ways I am whistling past that graveyard, and I also know that if and when that starts, we will be forced to choose sides... after all... if you are not with me... takes on a whole new meaning

That is all

And yes, I do hope to be very wrong about this... alas my Casandra singing has been on point...

[vadawg]

1. As the chinese say may you live in interesting times.

[upi402]

4. and you as well

:patriot:

[vadawg]

5. lol i love that lil smiling guy with the flag

[Ex Lurker]

16. A lot of people on message boards are talking about it

I tend not to pay much attention to them. It's the ones who aren't saying anything publicly that you have to worry about.

[cabluedem]

71. Its been dicussed on a forum I visit that is 80% Conservatives. Scary stuff & they blame Obama. n/t

[arcadian]

120. The guy has been in office a month and a half.

They've been itching for this no matter who it was.

[cabluedem]

136. Most of them are Bushbots and racists as well. They dont say it but they dont want a Black man.....

as the President. Yes racism is alive in the Red states where most of these morons live.

[Terry in Austin]

81. The chinese

While the sentiment of the saying is profoundly applicable, its origin is apparently not very Chinese.

FWIW...

[billyoc]

2. Make no mistake, they are marshalling their forces even as we speak...

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. You keep laughing, I don't

[chollybocker]

11. Looks more like they're marshmallowing their forces.

[Ikonoklast]

26. And this is their secret weapon.

[EnviroBat]

73. Rush Limbaugh?

[Tesha]

96. Damn! You beat me to that one! ;-) (NT)

[EnviroBat]

137. Hahahaha!

The caffeine was kicking in for me!

:hi:

[Canuckistanian]

98. Now there's something you don't see every day

I always think about that line when I see the Stay-Puft marshmallow man.

[Double T]

47. Looks like they have already been subdued by a carbohydrate attack.

'Wounds' were self inflicted.

[upi402]

3. Republicans set up a huge system to spy on and thwart these things

but used it against legal meetings, groups and grannies. Ironic, A black president could use a corporate fascist tool to squelch violent fomenters.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Only if they decide to go there

most democratic presidents take a more liberal view of free speech

Never mind in my mind it crossed into incitement in a few cases already

[Incitatus]

8. But would our intelligence agencies really give up these tools, even if the President asked?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. that is the wrong question

will the president, regardless of party, give them up?

Power corrupts and all that...

As is I know the FBI and others are paying close attention to some of these yahoos

[cliffordu]

10. Not to worry: If the system to keep these nazis at bay fails we'll protect you.

You know....us liberal gun nut tin foilers.



I had a girlfriend who went to school in beirut in the '60s....

She said it was paradise on earth...One of the most inclusive, liberal intelligent places she had ever lived....

And just a few years later turned into hell on earth....

Hard financial times and religious zealotry are the devil's garden.

[undergroundpanther]

12. The right wing has "cells" already

in every state..They are called "cell churches",a small group of people
belonging to christian fundie sects(like assemblies of God or front organizations that are interlinked via "religion") These people are rabidly conservative 'christonazis' and they meet in different locations at member's homes and they curse people,they prayed for the destruction of New Orleans because of mardi gras,they speak very violently about the things they think god wants or hates. All of them have ties to conservatives,some in the government and media and business and the military.They desire to rule every mind heart and body,they want full spectrum domination and control,they plan how to push their agendas in these"cell churches",and to force us to submit.I think they are dangerous and evil and traitorous.I know because I got mixed up in that shit years ago and I will never forget that horrible time in my life..

A "cell church" is a small group inside a web of networks leaderless yet led..These networks operate on different levels of publicity and politics with different fronts or religion 'brands' but they all have the same sick ideology and same desire to dominate and own the world and force it to be as they want it to be.
And BTW the republican leadership implosion is NOT an accident or a failure..Read this and you will know EXACTLY their plan.
http://www.publiceye.org/rightist/rudolph.html

http://www.kelticklankirk.com/official_membership_application_american_rebel_militias.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/6/994/57307
http://thechurchofjesuschrist.wordpress.com/2008/11/01/sarah-palin-and-the-new-apostolic-reformation-guilt-by-association/

[vadawg]

13. no matter what religious group we talk about theres going to be nutters amongst them

but you have to be careful, if you start going after the churches then a lot of people who are on the sidelines will get involved and start to fight back.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Early in the 1990s did a lot of research into these groups

rudolph and the rest particularly scare me

That said, I am talking of this entering a new stage, where these cells will be used

Savage is starting to sound like the extreme right wing, who followed the principles of leaderless resistance

(Yes I know, you guys are readying this since the post will trigger echelon... mind keeping an eye on people like Savage and even Rush?)

[backscatter712]

51. Oh, can I help trigger Echelon?

armada Alliance pour la resistance democratique IRA Osama Bin Laden Ejercito Popular Boricua codebook orthodox data haven GRAPO submarine amatol Henry David Thoreau ambush direct action Jamat-e-Islami

Code Pink Abu Sayyaf codebook Hizbullah corporate launch codes enigma corporate nuclear Kahane Chai rijndael federal agency CNRM composition b Berlin

supercomputer embassy Dev Sol Noriega GIA Harakat ul-Ansar pre-teen assault supercomputer al-Qa’ida FBI sniper kill anti-war FSF

:evilgrin:

Oh, and for those of you who might be interested in a WordPress blog, you might check out my very own Meta-Press Spook:

http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/meta-press-spook/

Oh, hi Agent Mike! Mind watching the right-wing lunatics a little more closely? I'm seeing a lot of veiled threats of violence, and find it disturbing...

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Ok boys, DO YOUR JOB and start looking o'er the shoulder of those that need

watching

I think that will do it

Oh wait

EZLN
FFMLN
Oh wait, I'd better stop now

:evilgrin:

[cliffordu]

59. 121, 121. The salt is wet, repeat the salt is wet.

The water is heavy. Run 23 hut hut. Ice Ice baby....

[starroute]

69. Sarah Palin's possible ties to that nexus need to be explored more

Consider:

- Her family was from Idaho, an area that has been an Aryan Nations stronghold.

- She grew up attending the Wasilla Assembly of God church.

- She and Todd had tied to the Alaskan Independence Party, which attracts Birchers and other on the extreme right, many of whom were among her supporters.

- She was interviewed after the election by right-wing filmmaker John Ziegler, who appeared to be prompting her to agree that "class bias" was behind the media attacks on her. Although it's subtle, Ziegler appeared to be referencing what that article on Eric Rudolph refers to as the "producerist narrative" -- the ultimately Nazi-derived model of society in which business owners and workers are united as the real Americans, while everyone else (from financiers to artists and intellectuals to the poor) are parasitic elements who scheme together to undermine and destroy the producer classes.

Despite all this, I don't see any signs that Palin herself thinks that way or has cell-group associations. But she has enough affinities with those who do that she could easily become a rallying-point and even a means of drawing in disillusioned movement conservatives.

[warren pease]

117. Too bad they're not brain cells...

If you're not already familiar with Morris Dees or the Southern Poverty Law Center, a watchdog organization he co-founded in 1971 to track activities of domestic hate groups and where he currently serves as chief trial counsel, here's a link to their website.

The SPLC is at or near the top of the list of major pains-in-the-ass to wingnut hate groups throughout the country -- and it seems like there's a hell of a lot more of them around these days than I remember from just 10 or 15 years ago.


wp

[Kievan Rus]

15. Two Tribes America -- a possible future?

This rhetoric from the really crazy wingnuts scares me to death. Why I'm so afraid is because of lone-wolf nutjobs like Timothy McVeigh and other insanos.

Sadly, at least one nutcase with this ideology has committed an act of violence: http://thegallopingbeaver.blogspot.com/2008/07/civil-cold-war-turning-hot.html.

My main point is that I do think it's a distinct possibility that, at some point in the future, the United States could literally split into two nations. However, there wouldn't be a shooting war (at least not right away), because of the existence of nukes and other WMD. Rather, it would be a sort of Civil Cold War reminiscent of USA vs. USSR during the twentieth century. There'd be heavily fortified borders (similar to the Fulda Gap between West and East Germany), an arms race between the two sides, mass expansions of nuclear stockpiles, and a constant fear of a shooting war breaking out. Luckily, blue America would have all the important allies (United Kingdom, France, Germany, Russia, India, China). Red America would probably be on its own in the world diplomatic stage.

What do you think?

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. That is a real possibility as well

not out of the equation

[MrSlayer]

17. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous.

Just as Chimp and his minions did not remain in power and declare martial law, there is not going to be any civil war and there isn't going to be a freeper revolution. There is a tiny minority of people who are overreacting to Obama's election, they are not going to do anything but whine and cry about it. If they tried anything at all in this vein they would be crushed instantly and they know it. It's all fantasy bravado from a bunch of idiots. Being afraid of these people is silly.

[Kievan Rus]

19. What does worry me....

is a lone nutcase like McVeigh committing an act of violence. That is VERY SCARY.

[dawgman]

31. Why are you so certain McVeigh acted

alone?

Just asking...

I don't think it was a grand conspiracy but I don't think it was just the two of them.

Just like it isn't just Rudolph.

There is a network of right wing crazies out there. How long did Rudolph hide out in Appalacia depending on the kindness of "strangers" before being caught?

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Because media stories never ever (or rather very seldomly) cover the

support network

The militias were "cleared" but were they?

That investigation didn't shake all them damn trees, if you get me drift

[dawgman]

37. Playboy had some interesting

articles about the McVeigh network a few years back. Some people would do well to read them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Some people should, but mostly wont

first it is playboy (some of the best investigative reporting and short fiction is published there),

Second, that would involve thinking that perhaps there is more to this, and that makes people very nervous

[dawgman]

41. newsweek is much better than that smut rag

lol...

It really is too bad. People SHOULD open up and see the organized and armed society that hates us for what we are...damn hippy fag lieberals..

And it is Rush, Savage and Hannity that are the mouth piece that agitates the hate.

Believe it or not these people would be happy if we were to be killed tomorrow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. I know, and if you ever want to read real good early King

Playboy

that is where he broke first

And indeed newsweek is better, it keeps the illusion that all is fine in the world...

It allows you to sleep better at night

SHHH don't tell anyone, but yes, I have read Playboy...

Oh and the photography... lousy but can also be a good indicator of the economy, don't get me started there

[Webster Green]

55. I'll volunteer to face Rush man to man...

I'll even eat a bunch of Oxycontin to even the playing field.

Bring it on, Pigboy! :smoke:

[cliffordu]

61. Just till they caught him starving to death rummaging through dumpsters.

Some survivalist.

:eyes:

[MrSlayer]

35. Well, that possibility is always there no matter who is running the government.

I don't worry about it. There isn't much you can do about it.

[cliffordu]

60. You'll get run over by a garbage truck before another a crazy bomber gets you...

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. So we imagined the DOJ Yoo memos

and you are not familiar with the process that leads to civil wars, by the way

Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your point of view... I am familiar with the process.. you may even say seen the victims of the process

The language being espoused by the leaders of this movement is dangerous

You may choose to ignore them, in fact, I expect you to

Suffice it to say... some of us have also been warning you of the falling economy, and many, perhaps even you, said it was ridiculous as well

By the way, why they never triggered the legal backing in those memos may lay in the work historians will have to do in the future... but none of us was pleased to see those memos... for they were way too real... yes, we were a dictatorship for seven long years.

[MrSlayer]

33. No, you didn't imagine them.

They didn't act on them because they couldn't. They retracted them because they knew they held no water. They got what they wanted, which was to steal every last penny this nation had and then they left when their time was up.

The economic crash was no surprise to me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Why couldn't they?

that is the question nobody can answer

I actually think I have a partial answer, but why?

They INTENDED to act

And for the last seven years the US was a dictablanda, with all elements ready to go into the dictadura...

You may want to google the terms by the way

[MrSlayer]

42. But it would have been so easy for them to do if they really wanted.

I don't believe they intended to act on this stuff at all. They only had to do another 9/11 false flag event and the idiot majority would have happily went along with them. They didn't do it because they were happy to just take the money and run. I also think they knew what all the stealing was going to do to the economy and they didn't want to be in power and be expected to fix it when it happened. They cannot govern and they cannot build. All those guys are good at is destruction.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. They intended too, but here is the big thing they didn't have behind them

a good percentage of the military

There are some stories about that

The first was.. right after 9.11 intern them aryabas

Why do you think that didn't happen? True story.. midwatches on way too many Navy ships where Chiefs, JOs and even Junior personnel would carry out the meaning of the Constitution.... don't worry Congress didn't get it either when they asked the military in 1973 and they said that they had an oath to the Constitution

They cleansed the armed forces forcing many of these people to leave, retire

When they floated the balloon about not actually holding elections in 2008... a similar thing happened. Heard the story from a young Marine this time around instead of my husband on the first one.

We owe the armed forces, that many despise, a huge one.

But that is one of the reasons they didn't trigger this.

You really don't want to piss off the guys with the guns... at times it is that simple.

[MrSlayer]

53. Ok so why do you think the military would go for it now?

They would have to go along in a civil war else the rebellion would simply be crushed in its infancy as I stated in my first post. What has changed?

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. I have yet to say anything about the US FEDERAL military if this broke into civil war

I asked you why they didn't trigger the full horrors of dictatorship

One of my working theories was the military would not go along

But if a civil war starts, and I mean the real deal... not the fantasies these idiots hold... the military will divide itself.

Yep, I enjoy the fantasy that the army will just stay to the side, or not act.

They will, and in a full fledged civil war, posse becomes obsolete..

At that point I'd have to ask how many officers and units will remain loyal to the federal government, and how many will break away

Here is the difference I have over these folks and those who deny even the possibly

I have seen the face of a civil war. Ain't pretty and never close to the fantasies

I don't want it, I don't relish it, but as a historian there are patterns here, clear patterns... that repeat patterns that OTHER nations have seen before the shootings starts, as well as the US before the first civil war

Yeah it officially started in 1860... that was the hot phase

The cold war, started a generation before. The Kansas war could even be correctly seen as part of that cold war, that finally led to a hot war we all know as the civil war

Chew on that, because our radio jocks, and heads of NRA are using very dangerous language, and language has consequences

[MrSlayer]

63. Well how will this civil war start if not with military involvement?

I know the history of the Civil War and what led up to it but I'm not seeing how it translates here. How would the next civil war start? We are so intermingled with each other I fail to see where the clear lines would be drawn. I don't see the major issue that would spark it. We as a nation aren't anywhere near as divided as we were back then, regardless of what the radio talking heads say. It's just far right wing extremists that are even talking up this sort of thing. The vast majority of the country would never stand for it, including the majority of Rush listeners. I know there are militias and compounds and all that but how would they stage attacks against cities and the like? They could do McVeigh style terror attacks I guess but I cannot see a full scale war being launched. It's just very, very improbable.

With that said, I'd love to see a bunch of hillbillies try to invade North Philly or South Central. The JBM and the Crips alone have more and better weapons than any of those redneck militias. Those cats are NOT going back to the plantation and a lot of them have already indiscriminately killed people unlike these keyboard commandos and weekend warriors. Those dudes live in a war zone 24/7.

I respect your opinion but I really think you are overreacting here. Just as people were too engrossed with "Who wants to marry a drunken dwarf?" to march on the Bush White House, so too are the people on the other side. They will bitch and moan as we have the past eight years but they aren't going to do anything.

That is not to say that we should just sit idle and let them spout their hatred and sedition. Certainly we should draw attention to it and try to shut it down but I'm not worried that my dopey neighbor who listens to Hannity is going to kill my family.


What civil war have you seen the face of (which I assume you mean "lived through") that you are so worried? Not being pert, seriously asking.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. First things first, get this out of your head

this will not be armies fighting set battles

That ended a while ago

And why these hillbilies are more dangerous

The first civil war required standing armies and set battles

This one will be more like El Salvador, or Nicaragua, or even maybe modern Iraq

A regular army fighting ghosts, who control the area at night....

Set battles is part of that fantasy many hold

[MrSlayer]

88. I'm sorry but I'm just not buying this.

It has been nice talking to you though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Hope you are right

really do

[Kievan Rus]

123. What about nukes in your hypothetical scenario?

I hope and pray to God that things don't end up like this. Fortunately, I think any such eventuality is EXTREMELY unlikely. Most of these utter crazies are either too scared to do anything, or the Feds will bust 'em ASAP if they do. I've read most of the posts in this forum; and in such a scenario of division, I do not believe there would be a shooting war, at least initially. Why? Because of the existence of nukes, both the strategic and tactical ones.

Because of nukes, I think there'd be a strategic stalemate if the crap really ever hit the fan; instead of hot war, there'd be cold war instead, at least initially. If each side would have control of nuclear weapons (B-1 and B-52 bombers with nukes, Ohio-class SSBNs, missile silos and tactical nukes), they wouldn't want to risk fighting in order to avoid an all-out nuclear exchange. Each side would take control of a geographical area, and there'd be a mass exodus to-and-fro, similar to India and Pakistan in 1947-48. From then on, the situation would settle into a Cold War-style struggle for supremacy.

[alfredo]

48. poverty, and radical fundamentalism are the parents of terrorism and

revolution.

The crapola coming out of Chuck Norris is nothing more than sour grapes with a dose of racism. Sore fuckin loser.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. My problem is if this was just chuckie, I'd agree

but the Tenth Amendment movement is national

And these groups have been out there, in the background for now over two decades

Most folks underestimate the danger a few well armed people can pose

Would they succeed in an actual revolution? No... not right now

But will they do a lot of damage? Yes

Also having seen how these things work, you need a small group of assholes to control a large area

And as I keep saying if it was just chuckie... but how many of these sentiments were shared at CPAC? How many of our top tier radio jocks share it?

Best case, they will be all the excuse we need for the fairness doctrine, or the son of the fairness doctrine to be enacted... after all Coughlin also talked the talk.

[backscatter712]

56. There's plenty of poverty and radical ideology to go around.

Fundamentalism is one radical ideology, but there's also others - everything from Maoism to White Nationalism.

And there's plenty of the frothing-batshit-insane ideology in the U.S. Dominionist Christianity (or shall I say "Christianity" - what they do in the name of Jesus is about as far from true Christianity as you can get), there's white supremacism. There's Lou Dobbs nativism which makes Latinos a target. There's the Know-Nothings that seem to be led by Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber.

There's plenty of this shit.

Oh, and there's lots of poverty too. Thanks, Bush for fucking up the economy, putting countless people into Bushvilles, and creating one of the preconditions that fuel this sort of violent unrest.

It happened in the 1930's too. The Great Depression had huge amounts of unrest. There was the Bonus March, and there was the failed Business Plot involving Prescott Bush and co. And that's just here in the U.S. How did you think the Nazis managed to push their way to power?

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Don't forget the riots that ahem....traditional history classes...

never cover, and if they do, brush over

The 1930s was a hard time

I don't remember where I read it, so don't ask for the quote, but international analysts fear the world will go back to the radicalism of the 1920s and 1930s

[alfredo]

64. chuckie said it will start this Friday. Let's see if he was right or if he was

talking out his wrinkled old ass.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. I will repeat this, if it was just chuckie yep, whatever

but there is a movement, ultra right wing, living a fantasy

It takes a few to get going

And this will not be the fantasy that many here think a civil war will look like either

Set battles, regular armies, that went away a while ago

[alfredo]

77. bush's buddies at Blackwater now Xe, is a very well armed mercenary force.

They have a very right wing, religious agenda.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. That would be your usual suspect

not really... those would be set battles

Think Rudolph, thing lone wolves, think guerrilla warfare

Think terrorizing of the population and control of zones at night

That is what I am talking about

Now some of those guys ARE trained in these tactics... hell, some are green berets.... this is standard force multiplier operations

See that thread about assassination teams that Chenney supposedly formed, and Sly Hersh is now reporting? That's the kind of crap I'm talking about

That is a white card, assassination team... they are paramilitary... death squad

Yep, we are looking more and more like the CA wars we pushed over twenty years ago

[alfredo]

79. I just picked up the Hersh article. I will read it in a couple minutes.

I was trained in anti insurgency many years ago, but all I know is the signal intelligence side. Not into bleeding

My brothers:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=dead+in+the+water&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. I dealt with the consequences of white card teams

Many a refugee telling stories to make your hair stand on end

I also knew people who worked that side when the war on drugs in Mexico started to really go hot... and it wasn't two years ago either

Or four for that matter

Those people are damn scary. So when I read the article I went... holy shit

Yep, the team was disbanded... really... I know better

Of course I am also worst casing this... the old adage, you know it

Plan for the worst, hope for the best

And some folks here, never mind all the things that are coming out, are still laughing... I hope they can continue to laugh, really

[alfredo]

100. Some laugh, but they did take note.

I think he was talking out his ass. If he wasn't, he just screwed up their plans. Anyway, that president of Texas shit just shows me he is delusional.

[cali]

65. You nailed it.

For some people, melodrama is a way of life. None of the laugable predictions that the OP made over the last couple of years, and that so many here lapped up, have come to pass.

End-timers are a bore- whether they're religious or secular.

[Mike 03]

110. Cali, I'm so torn.

I'm not an "end timer," I promise.

I just see splinters of truth in all sorts of views, if that makes sense.

Yes, I'm scared of the future.

Yes, I admire and respect and read everything you write.

And Yes, I admire and respect and read everything that some other people write too.

I would give anything to be as sure of myself as some other people I admire here are. Believe me.

It's no fun living in a state of terror.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. Mike here is a great secret, don't live in terror

be aware, but don't live in terror

That is the great secret of this

Of course this is coming from a medic who got shot at more often than I care to think about

I know I live every day, my life, and for the most part I have not let them (the bushies, or these guys) terrorize me

But a few preparations are useful... one is to have a passport and your papers in case you need to run... chances are you won't have to.

The problem is that some folks see this kind of what some may call connecting dots, others intelligence analysis, as fear mongering.

Call it a bad habit from having interviewed way too many survivors of actual civil wars, and my dad's experience on Hitler's travel program

(yes, cynical to the nth degree)

[Regret My New Name]

70. I agree there won't be a civil war like some of those jackasses seem to want...

However, it only takes a few motivated loons to cause death and destruction. The Oklahoma City bombings should be proof enough of this. Unlike other terror groups, these pricks are already here and they can do as they please without drawing much attention to themselves. I mean, I'm just glad most of them are too stupid to actually pull anything off without getting in caught... Of course it only takes a few intelligent deluded people to do it.

[Selatius]

20. The War in Iraq has likely already generated future Timothy McVeighs.

The war was started over false pretenses, and many of those soldiers watched their friends bleed and die for that. That alone is enough to make many war veterans hate the government.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Yeah that is one group, but not even talking about those

read again the language used by the President of the NRA to CPAC... parse the words... understand that is the call for revolution

McVeigh was not encouraged by the head of the NRA.

[Selatius]

29. No, but Timothy McVeigh became what is known as a "useful idiot" to them.

When the Dupont family clan and their corporate thug friends on Wall Street were plotting to have FDR killed and the federal government toppled and replaced with a pro-Hitler corporate dictatorship, they had a pool of disgruntled war veterans left over from World War One. They had the manpower in place.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I know for a while the army didn't allow

these people to join, then came this war...

All those morality waivers allowed many of these guys to get top notch training as well

Not coincidence

After all coincidence is for fools and idiots

[Occam Bandage]

21. It's possible a few crazies will blow up a building or attempt to assassinate the President.

I don't see any evidence for any "revolutionary" activity going beyond that, nor do I expect to.

[readmoreoften]

23. Not violent revolution. Violent reactionaries is what they are.

There's nothing "revolutionary" about them. They're reactionaries.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I'm talking of the language they are using

grow the stomach and listen to Rush for an afternoon, or to Savage, or even Hannity

They are calling for revolution, that is the point

Now they are reactionaries, no doubt on that, but they can be both and the same

[cliffordu]

62. That's right.

[Rashel]

27. The racists are serious. They are not having any of this Black president stuff.

The frenzy seems to be escalating and I am concerned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Thank you, somebody else who is paying attention

two people on this thread, good

At least I am not alone

:-)

[Rashel]

32. I just mentioned it on a different thread.

I listened to a caller on a radio station today (Minneapolis) who was so frenzied going on and on about socialism and how he's a farmer and "if you want socialism all you Blacks can come and work on my farm..." The talk show host made no attempt to question his racism or stop his rant.

We are a minority family and I have not had the type of feeling as I do about what's going on right now. I am feeling anxious about it.

It's racism, hatred and fear cloaked in the words of "socialist", "radical", "communist", etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. You got it, brother\sister

that is one of the salient elements of this

[undergroundpanther]

40. the people they control who listen to the talk or call up

are not independent thinkers,they are followers,and they are mad because they lost,but they will lash out regardless and instigate.With words for now,but if it goes to action,the churches, cells, all of that network they are inter connected with, from the family and national prayer breakfast,to scientology and the moonies, to racist thugs and business snakes all of it must be exposed and stopped if you want to ruin their plans for a significant amount of time..

[tom_paine]

131. Not alone, but so vastly separated and rare that we might as well be.

Maybe that's just watching the continued power the Bushies/Neocons/Whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-them even with an Obama Administration and solid Democratic majorities.

Witness: The Rove Testimony Deal (brokered by Obama Lawyer Mr. Craig, who also worked for Boozler and Rove.

The Freeman Nomination.

The "negotiations with the military on a timetable for withdrawal".

There's more, and certainly this post covers another angle on it. That being the insanity of the increasing virulence of Bushie craziness that would seemt o spell doom for them politically, only makes sense (as it only could in 1998) if the actual game is something other than politics.

But so very few, even at this late date, wish to see. Even as it is further and further before their eyes.

The Yoo Memos.

You know, you think that something like that, the full-scale "legal justification think through" of complete overthrow and tyrannization of America, might rouse some outrage.

But no. Nothing. Not even here at DU.

You crazy conspiracy theorist. The Bushies didn't ACT on the Yoo Memos, did they?

:rofl:

Oh, we're alone, all right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

132. Coincidence is for fools and idiots

Hey I used the line in the novel. Too good not to use

But this is getting to the point of leading horse to water, giving horse water... horse ain't gonna touch it

What can you do?

Offer water I guess. Perhaps some day horse will be thirsty (read intellectually curious) and perhaps read a history book or two and connect some dots

:-)

[tom_paine]

134. History tells us when most of the "horses will be thristy"

When it is far too late to do anything about it.

Because we know what the Greater Depression is meant to lead to. And now we see that there are roughly 30,000,000 Nazi-Bushies (roughly 10,000,000 Stormtroopers to do the dirty work and 20,000,000 Good Germans to cheer them on) all ready to go, justrequiring the tiniest bit of permission from authority to do so.

The tiniest bit.

Which bring us back to the fact that Great Depressions are when Nazis and Bushies THRIVE, and their tyrannical movements with them.

The "horses will be thristy", just about the moment the shower nozzles turn on and the smell of bitter almonds wafts down from the ceiling, relatively speaking. They will have done everything to deny the truth until that last bitter, eye-opening moment.

That is how history always has worked, and very likely it is how history always will work. There must be something in the universailty of the psychology of statistically large groups that makes the powerful, almost frantic denial so pervasive.

I still hope Obama (and his administration) can turn it around. But of course, the Bushies looted the country and left him holding the bag, and his very presence, it seems, is being used to wipe away the last shreds of humanity from the 30,000,000 Kinder and Gentler Nazis.

Great Depressions are when Nazis and Bushies THRIVE, and I see little, I am sorry to say, that suggests the descent of America has altered sufficiently or that we are in any less danger from Bushie Tyrants and the Nazi-like Monsters and Good Germans who now almost exclusively make up their ranks of followers.

[cabluedem]

84. I agree. They have been using his Muslim middle name to stir up unrest. n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

102. That's my direct experience as well. I thought they'd stay in shock...

for a few months, but it's been pure, unbridled hatred since January 20th. And, only since January 20th, because they fully believed Obama wouldn't make it to inauguration.

These are the people around me....the racists. They are terrified that the world as they know it is coming to an end (and, it is...thank goodness), but they are indeed ready to fight, and the Limbaughs of the world simply feed their hatred and fear.

Add blind religion and weapons to the mix. It's not good.

[Number23]

125. You're damned right. They ARE serious. Too bad so many Dems aren't.

People act like this country's history is full of sweetness and light. Like racism, assassination and violence aren't every bit as American as apple pie.

The ones laughing and making light of these types of threats need to read a few history books and learn a few history lessons. The story of what happened at Rosewood would be a good start. And NONE of those folks had assault weapons.

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. I'd add to the list a basic history of the civil war, and its causes

as well as the nativist history of California

(The Minutemen sound like those folks btw)

And I could go on

[RJ Connors]

45. You're probably not wrong as this happens in all societies

from time to time once enough pressure builds up. It seems to be a part of nature in some odd way, maybe a natural weeding process for overpopulation or something. But if and when it comes, and there is not a question of if it will happen but when it will happen, you either survive or you don't. Which ultimately you end up in the same place you were destine for from the moment of your birth.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Well not really... I do not truly believe you are fated

but this has little to do with population pressure. But all to do with a view of the world that is very different from mine

[RJ Connors]

50. Yep, that's what most of them have to do with. n/t

[bridgit]

57. The matter is here as well...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5218563&mesg_id=5218563

[L0oniX]

66. Another reason for a CWP ...to defend myself against these repuke asscarrots.

[blindpig]

67. Well, if you are correct we're gonna need these guys:

[femrap]

68. K and R

I believe you are correct. I never thought I would have to buy a gun, but these are 'interesting times.'

Before the election, gun stores were swamped. And I know I shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but the people buying these guns....very, very scary!

There are times when I think the South should be another country...

[starroute]

72. I don't think it could happen without social destabilization first

What most people don't know -- and what I only vaguely recall from high school world history -- is that following World War I there were several years of general chaos in Central Europe and attempted revolutions from both extremes of the political spectrum. Even though things settled down again by about 1924, political polarization remained intense and there was essentially no middle. Democracies like the Weimer Republic were extremely fragile as a result, which set things up for more and more nations to fall into dictatorship through the course of the 20's and early 30's.

In addition, the breakdown of the rule of law is an essential prerequisite for its replacement by full-on authoritarian rule. When it becomes apparent -- as it did soon after Hitler became chancellor of Germany -- that certain groups are able to commit crimes with impunity while their victims lack any recourse, legitimate government no longer exists and worse and worse abuses become tolerated.

On the other hand, as long as the government enforces the laws, you get a situation more like what Britain experienced during the Northern Ireland-related terrorist attacks. People are killed, fear mounts, but the basic fabric of society remains secure.

This is why it is important for calls for violent revolution to be tagged as unacceptable right now. The unity and legitimacy of our national government have to be reaffirmed at every point -- and attempts to chip away at that, whether through this sovereign state movement or even the seemingly silly Obama birth certificate flap -- have to be shot down before they can gain traction.

That is what concerns me far more that a bunch of guys hoarding guns in a shack somewhere off in the wilderness.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. You got it, this can still be stopped

but only if people stop putting their collective heads in the ground and realize that talk has consequences

In my view they have crossed that fine line... and screaming fire in a crowded theater is not protected speech

[AntiFascist]

94. Good post...

anyone organizing for violent or oppressive purposes should be viewed as nothing less than a potential domestic terrorist, and we can use our existing security infrastructure to monitor them. Of course, there will be plenty of right-wing operatives within the infrastructure who should probably be guarded against with proper checks and balances.

[bonzotex]

82. the fringe nut jobs bear watching...but

take a deep breath....

The Military in the United States is not being overrun with right wing reactionaries. Some are there for sure, but The US military is a pretty good cross section of the US working and middle class population with the full range of political views. There will be lots of individual cases of untreated PTSD afflicted soldiers returning to civilian life and failing to cope or get help. This has and will result in violence, however it does not a revolution or civil war make. The US military will side with actual Constitutional authorities, not babbling freaks on the right wing fringe.

Of over 300 million people the vast vast majority want nothing to do with any sort of armed rebellion. That being said, there are plenty of armed citizens who will not put up with a bunch of wacked-out, armed rednecks roaming the streets and countryside making up new rules. Millions of Americans took to the streets all over the country to protest our invasion of Iraq. The right wing tea parties recently attracted at best a few hundred confused whiners.

The moneyed elites that run our government and corporatocracy will not abide an armed insurgency on any level. They will pull out all the stops to crush it immediately. It is bad for business. The real threat is the government using a crackdown on domestic terrorists to justify a more oppressive and dictatorial regime. That could happen under either a Republican or Democratic majority.

The right-wing crybabies and their talk radio gods are almost exclusively, loud-mouthed cowards. Unfortunately many are religiously insane and armed so they are dangerous, but primarily only to themselves, their family and neighbors. Scary, but this is not the stuff of revolutions. The US in 2009 is not remotely analogous to Lebanon in the 1960s.

This area of American politics bears watching, but they are not any sort of existential threat to the Nation. Dealing with the few who will twist off and kill people is a law-enforcement issue. It sucks and we have to be vigilant to the growth of right wing groups that encourage violence, but these people have no power. That's why they are so pissed off. Their natural party, the Republican doesn't even want to have anything to do with them. The repukes want their votes, and to that extent they tolerate the right wing media that fires them up, but beyond that they see that constituency as marginally useful idiots at best.

In short, keep watching, stay involved in real politics, but don't be afraid to go get a cup of joe at your fav liberal hangout beacause there might be some Xtian milita member posting threats on a message board while he watches Glenn Beck.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Who is talking of the US Military? Chuck Norris shares that fantasy

with some in the left

The military is NOT where this is happening

The other fantasy is that a modern civil war involves armies (sort off) and set battles, (not really)

As to the crybabies... McVeigh was one of those crybabies

Read a little on the militia movement, for example

Or the Dominionist movement

Start connecting dots to what the head of the NRA said at CPAC, and what Savage and Hannity are saying on the radio

I will say this again, they are talking the language of violent revolution... and language has consequences

[bonzotex]

85. I have read a lot about it

I was responding to some of the rhetoric in the thread rather than simply to your OP. My apologies.

You are correct that the inflammatory language of right wing blabbermouths can fuel the fires of insane people.

Groups like the Dominionists and Militias have networks where they can create echo-chambers of bad thought that will spur the most reactionary to act out.

My main point is that this "movement" is mostly wind and smoke. The threat is with the small groups or even just individuals who will act on their twisted world view. There are limited ways to preempt that sort of violence without creating a police state.

Play dictator for a moment. What would you do to prevent this?

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. Let me get in character (actually writing a character in fiction into that exact position)

so how would she act?

The tools are actually there... I know if it is only a small group, enemy combatants come to mind.. USPA... it is still in the books

(In us law)

If it is more extensive than just a few nutballs... I don't have to play dictator

We actually have the means in US Law to deal with this... all the sedition laws... only problem... we need a couple idiots to act first

And hope that a few sedition trials will be enough to put it down without having to fulfill the prophecy and go down the road of tyranny

Problem is that any of these fantasies can become very self fulfilling

In fact, the way Clinton dealt with McVeigh et al is exactly how you do it, legally... alas they need to act first

Once they do though you can, and this is not a violation of anybody's rights, arrest those inciting this.

Now that is restraint

The other method... look at Bush...

[bonzotex]

97. You make the scariest point

It's very hard to fight these extremists without resorting to same tactics we would deplore in our government. It's almost impossible to shut down these groups or squelch their ideologies and still have a society that values free speech and free association. Even if tomorrow you could somehow turn the TV talking heads sane and get rid of hate radio, these authoritarian followers would still be there and still be pissed.

We are forced to an extent to be reactive (wait for them to break the law) rather than proactive (make new laws and/or round them up and put them in camps).

The proactive (Bush approach) is a road to fascism we have already traveled too far down. The USPA and other enabling legislation directed at our own citizens should be repealed. Only Liberals can do that. No conservative administration at any level is going to give up police power.

"If it is more extensive than just a few nutballs... "

Yes, but it's the few nutballs we have to worry about. And that is my belief based of a lot of study and observation. No matter how loud a minority of Americans may be, it's only a tiny subset that will actually act out violently. To that extent we need reasonable police powers and yes even the need to surveil these groups. (with legal warrant and not joke warrants form a rubber stamp midnight court) Of course the Bushies wasted efforts spying on Grannies, Vegans and Quakers among other peaceful groups. That just points out how easily these sorts of police powers can get misused.

Unfortunately, to an extent we have to suffer the violence that the few psychopaths will commit anyway. The mindless raging idiots like Beck, Savage, Hannity and Limbaugh et al undoubtedly throw gas on the fire. Alas they will always be there in some form and always have an audience. We win this fight by having better ideas and electing representatives than implement better policies so the fringe becomes more and more marginalized.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Problem is that those throwing gas can also be dealt with

we had this happen before, and we got the Fairness Doctrine

That is one way to deal with it

But we need to wait and react.

IN the novel I created a tyrant, in the old traditional, classic sense of the world, as in Rome and Greece... so I have been playing with this in fiction for months

She's fun... she is more like our democrats, than a fascist... but that is what we have to do

WAIT

Alas we cannot also assume that this is not more serious than we wish it were

The CIA white card teams (those are hit teams), are probably operating domestically

That is part of the legacy of Bush... death squads... which raises this to a new level

[bonzotex]

112. I'll have to read your book when you are done!

Benevolent tyrants can make for good fiction but there are precious few historical examples. I am history geek and I can't think of any. There might be a few. I think perhaps anyone good enough to actually be a truly benevolent dictator turns down the opportunity. In Rome, Cincinnatus would be an early example - George Washington our homegrown version.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll see a return of the fairness doctrine. We may get actually a better result from re-regulation of broadcast media - limiting ownership in specific markets. A little off topic, but it is something politically feasible.

Govt sponsored domestic death squads in the US? Anything is possible I guess. I hope we can work to build a Nation where that that possibility remains in fiction and conspiracy theories.

[nadinbrzezinski]

113. in the midst of editing and that made more sense than

what I originally plotted

As to the fairness doctrine, we will see some kind of regulations when the fun starts, if it starts and can be tied to the radio blowhards

The problem is we have to be reactive

As to death squads in the us

The day Wellstone died, I went, they killed him... I fear we will find that evidence someday... not a happy place to be

[MrSlayer]

89. Exactly.

Well said.

[chrisa]

87. Not really a problem.

I believe that the consensus is that these people are just whiners. They said the same thing during Clinton, and there was never a violent revolution. Of course, there's more of them now, but they won't do anything.

And even if they did, they wouldn't succeed. We would crush them badly. It wouldn't even be close (unless if the military divided up, which would be pretty bad). I don't think most people are interested in killing each other right now, though. Just the fundie nuts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. So I imagined OKC, and Rudolph?

Ok

If it stays at that level that is fine

As you said, there are more of them now... and we have a (insert epithet here) in the WH

Yes, they think that way

[chrisa]

92. I say let them think that way.

They've shown no interest in a real fight. If need be, Federal Agents would just storm their houses and arrest them. That's where it ends.

It would take some unbelievable calamity to even get close to war, like the US dollar being worth nothing, or something like that. I don't think anything of that type has any chance of happening.

I'm more worried about Obama, but that's where the Secret Service arrests the nuts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. The worst we can all do is underestimate them

by the way in the 1990s I never, EVER heard open call to revolution by Sean Hannity, or Savage

Things have changed

I do hope you are right

But the last thing I will do is under estimate the danger this posses

[chrisa]

95. Re:

And that's where the FBI, which we pay for with our tax dollars, steps in to make arrests and send them to jail.

Hannity? Savage? They're a bunch of tools. The funniest thing ever was when Hannity embarassed himself by saying "I wished I had served" and then saluting someone. What a big baby he is (and a liar).

Let Hannity blab on every night, and his 80 year old audience dream of war masterbation fantasies. I agree, we should never underestimate anyone, though.

[Ozymanithrax]

101. It may not be all that easy to stop them...

There is Glen Beck and Chuck Norris.
I may run for president of Texas

There is the Nazi that planned on making a dirty bomb.
Report: Slain US Nazi hated Obama, had parts for ‘dirty bomb’

There is the entire tenth amendment movement with its open goal of secession
Tenth Amendment Center

Yes, they are crazies, and the leadership doesn't really have the balls, or ovaries, to really do anything. But they constantly talk about taking back the government by force. It only takes one crazy who listens to these freaks to make the decision to start another civil war. It could be a group of crazies. The American militia movement has been quiet since Clinton, except for Terry Schiavo.

That fact that we might win doesn't mean there won't necessarily be heavy loss of life. And with a lot of the states making secession noises, it could get very ugly.

[bonzotex]

106. maybe i'm missing something....

Which States are making secession noises? The actual governors or legislators?

Texas has always had its share of idiots that think we have some sort of double secret deal with the US we can opt out of. They are not taken seriously. Chuck Norris holding "cell" meetings on his ranch just makes it more of a joke, not less.

The slain wingnut in Maine just underscores the point that it is lone psychos we should worry about, not a well defined or coherent movement.

The Tenth Amendment Center is just a web PR friendly front for "Patriot" types who spend all their time arguing with each other over imaginary points of law.

That these examples exist, doesn't mean we are on the verge of bloody wingnut rebellion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. the actual legislatures

here you go links

http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=159794&t=01004994858403520305

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/828

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30917&page=15&viewID=802569

And this is just from doing a google check

Yes, these are wingnuts in the State Legislatures, but this has a very familiar tone to students of other civil wars

[bonzotex]

114. oh c'mon....

Toothless resolutions about the Tenth Amendement hardly qualify as secession noises. These are wingnut PR stunts.

And linking to Newt's rantings on "Human Events Online" *shudders* ....now I have to shower.

Keep your eye peeled. This stuff does need watching and response, but this is not the preface to civil war.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. Read the OP again, I said they are using the LANGUAGE, not that they'd

start marching down DC tomorrow.

Problem is that some folks read LANGUAGE as fait acomplii

By the way, those toothless resolutions were the preview of coming attractions in that other civil war in US History

It started in 1860... the hot phase

But the rumblings started a generation before

Anyhow, I will stick with what I said... they are using the language of violent revolution...

[Ozymanithrax]

118. If you want to shudder, visit Free Republic...

Go to any of the 2nd Amendment rights groups and read their boards. The leaders for the most part aren't crazy. A lot of what they are doing is just trying to terrify people because that has always worked before. But it doesn't have to be the leaders that start things. And when you lead a band that only reacts because they think they are a persecuted minority being attacked by communist liberal lions, an inciting incident can come from anywhere.

John Brown, a man incensed by slavery, tried to start his own civil war before the real thing broke out and came very close.

People are using the language of violent revolution and there are crazies out there who will take it too far.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. Exactly, my point

they've crossed the line from protected speech to fire in a crowded theater

[SammyR]

103. I agree

I'm a prepper; started when bush was in office and I feared he was going to bring this country to its knees, which he may still have done. I've been trying unsuccessfully to find a prepping/survivalist forum for a couple of years that doesn't spend most of the time bashing liberals. The ones that I haven't been banned from yet for speaking up for liberals are sounding off with some very concerning chest thumping. Whether it's for real or just showing their behinds, it is escalating and getting very nasty. Some are openly talking about revolution when the government "comes to take my guns". They are convinced President Obama is going to take their 2nd amendment rights away to own guns and there is no reasoning with them.

I agree with some of the other comments that it would be very hard to actually pull off a revolt, but I also think it only takes a few nut jobs to cause some real damage. These are bitter lunatics we're talking about and they are finding each other on the internet and working themselves and others into a frenzy. Even is someone is an armchair, wannabe, 'hero' for the extreme right, they can find the courage to do something stupid when they have a network of like-minded crazies egging them on.

[Odin2005]

104. Reading this thread just made my bood run cold.

I didn;t know that there were so many of these nutjobs and they were so organized. :scared:

[Mike 03]

105. nadinbrzezinski: you are not just a poster here, but a force of nature.

I think you need your own forum.

Every time you post I find myself thinking, "I need to think about what she is asking. It is a good question but I really need to think about this before I answer."

Arrgggg.... You frustrating and brilliant person you.

[Mike 03]

107. What are you doing to protect yourself? I too fear this is coming. But I'm not sure what to

do other than the cliches of storing up on necessities, etc...

Do you live in the United States, by any chance? I don't think I ever even thought to ask you that, and I know I was dumb not to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Oh I live in this good ol' US of A

and what we are doing the usual, storing supplies, re-readying trauma manuals (used to be a medic)

And hope I am wrong, and don't have to take sides

Oh and exercising,

As to fleeing, my closest border is actually much hotter...

I guess the only advantage I have over a lot of people is that I have the historical training to do the analysis, and the actual experience dodging actual bullets

So my advise, have a passport... and some cash at hand...

Ah that is dad speaking, he survived the holocaust

Chances are... for many reasons, this will stay in the warm phase, but if it goes hot... watch out

(warm phase, McVeigh style events)

[galileoreloaded]

122. nadin, somebody bought me a heart, and I think it was you.....

great post. As I am quite well connected to these types (fortunately or unfortunately, depends on perspective. I am forced to live, eat, and breathe their ideology), let me assure you that the acrimony you see and hear is not made up on your part.

I, regretfully agree with your assessment. While the prospects are truly ghastly, the path seems clear to these people, and they ARE acting on their convictions. That is the issue. Level of commitment. No one can defeat a truly committed individual, much less a committed group, of any size. Anyone who doubts that is a sucker, of the Darwinian sort.

Some can call reality and pragmatism "doom and gloom" if they desire, but in the end, the shit that happens is the shit that happens.

Now how do people react, well, that is the $64,000 question.

Regards,
Galileoreloaded

[deaniac21]

116. I just love humor!!!

[BlooInBloo]

121. race war! squawk! race war! squawk!

I'm always amazed at how much white folks looooove to talk about this.

I should learn, I suppose. But on this one, I never do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. Well that goes back to the first civil war

and it is but one of the issues

Want to think about this deeply?

See two things driving their lets secede state rights are....

EFCA and national health care

Put those two in perspective with .... slavery...

We haven't really killed that as an issue... at least for some

Now will not even offer you a cracker, the parrots (real ones) don't squawk that way, nor repeat things

[autorank]

124. You're very right

Chuck Norris, can you believe it? He's skirting the final word on this.

He talks of Texas succeeding. Fine, lets have him hold a convention with a bunch of goof balls
hooting and hollering. Let let him make a proclamation or a declaration of independence. And then
take a poll. The results would be don't let the door hit you on the way out.

That's when this crap ends. When somebody says, "Please do leave. We're tired of your bull shit."

All the rightists know is hate and attack along with dehumanize. They're just doing what they do
and getting little traction.

AMF President Norris.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. The USSC settled this in 1871, ironically with Texas

that is where legally it will end up again

And if it was just chuckie, you're right

It's not just chuckie

The language is what worries me... as language has consequences

[autorank]

138. It's an absurdity uttered by a fool that can, your are so right, have serious outcomes

Norris and his idiocy represents an explanation for the failure of his followers. It MUST be
someone elses fault. Well, it probably is but Norris won't help them look to the bankers
and the militarists. That wouldn't work in Texas.

The guy fancies himself a Texas myth based on a character he played on television.

Reminds me of a crude Reagan. But Reagan never believed his b.s.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Not quite a character he played on TV

he's bought the Alamo myth, not the reality

Most Americans are truly ignorant of the history, but lord are in love with myths

That is exactly what he's doing quoting Sam Houston

[Number23]

126. There's a black president and the economy is so deep in the toilet it's halfway out to sea

This country has a long, storied history with racial scapegoating, particularly during economic turmoil.

Anyone who DOESN'T feel the time is ripe for this type of foolishness is in some deep, PENETRATING denial.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. You got it, indeed N\T

[Rashel]

133. Exactly. And the thing that bothers me the most is that the media put their toe over the line

in assigning labels (are you a socialist) to our President and encouraging fear of him, and its seems that they're ready to just full-on walk right over that line with both feet.

[tekisui]

135. I don't deny the nutbags are frothing at the mouth. But, I think

if anything happens, it will be Freeman/Waco styled standoffs. They are being watched and will hopefully be confronted before any damage done.

I don't worry about the safety of the President, but I do have some concern that some of these RW terrorists may try Timothy McViegh-like bombings.

I think there are more lone wolfs and isolated groups, not organized enough to be a serious, major threat.

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. The problem is that they are organized

and that hot civil wars are preceded by this kind of language

By the way, the leaders will not fight it... just froth... like the first civil war

They can be stopped still, but we all need to call them on it, and not tolerate this

The speech we are hearing is no longer protected... it is indeed screaming fire in a crowded theater

[and-justice-for-all]

141. No one ever said change was was easy....

it is a hard process to get to where we need to be, all because of obstructionist who fear necessary change who also see nothing wrong with the way things are.