Older Job-Seekers Face Special Hurdles

[Purveyor]

(03-08) 19:33 PST -- Los Gatos resident Doug Horan, 62, with degrees in physics and business administration, has applied for more than 1,000 jobs over the past 18 months. After a promising in-person interview last week, he received a call back and was told, "You don't fit with our culture."

"That means I'm old and they're young," Horan said with a wry laugh. "I get a lot of phony baloney excuses when I'm rejected. The bias against older workers is so pervasive."

Horan is part of a new economic and social reality that is redefining the so-called golden years: Americans in increasing numbers are being forced to work past retirement, and retirees who find their nest eggs cracked are dusting off resumes in hopes of re-entering the workforce.

"There is a social sea change under way, where retirement itself is being retired," said Tim Driver, who founded Retirementjobs.com, an online career site for people over 50, in 2006. The site has seen traffic nearly triple, from 250,000 visitors in July to 715,000 in February. "The (economy) is driving the largest shift in the makeup of the workforce since women went to work en masse in the 1970s."

Driver added, "When we started our company, it was more about helping people over 50 find part-time jobs and enhance their lifestyles. It's still about that, but importantly, it's about helping them find economic security."

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SF CHRONICLE: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/09/MNMA1696MC.DTL

[upi402]

1. This happens in Asia at 40 yrs

That's why the so called, often joked about, notion of ageism is very real. Seems like an over-sensitive over-reaction until it's YOU that needs to live indoors and eat food after 60.

[whathehell]

7. I believe it, because I've been surfing a lot of ESL job websites

and I hear from teachers that in parts of Asia -- If you are 40 or over you are unemployable as an esl teacher which is sooo stupid.

[Maru Kitteh]

42. Why?

in your opinion? I'd not have guessed that.

[Bake]

2. I'm 53 and I can tell you, it f***ing sucks.

It's tough out there, especially for older workers.

Bake

[blues90]

4. tell me about it , then we are told there are age discrimination

laws how in the hell would one ever prove or make a case on that?

[prolesunited]

3. Maybe older workers can pool their resources,

start their own businesses and kick the young uns' butts.

I would definitely take an older worker. In general (an I'm sure there are exceptions) I see them as more responsible and settled. They're not going out all night partying, calling off with hangovers, arranging their social life at work, getting caught up in drama, etc.

I think one major obstacle is health insurance. Since they are more likely to have conditions or need medical care, it drives up the rates for the company's insurance pool and has a negative affect on rates the company pays.

Universal health care certainly would free up the talent pool.

[damntexdem]

5. I'm 62 and glad I have tenure. Age discimination is rampant.

It's also illegal, but that is not enforced.

[tonysam]

21. Don't Count on "Tenure" to Protect You

It's a giant myth "tenure" will protect you from firings; if employers want to get rid of you, they can do it.

Take it from somebody who knows firsthand.

[TahitiNut]

6. Sheesh! That could be a story about me ... it fits almost exactly.

While I lived in Los Gatos, I sent out over 1,500 resumes ... everywhere. From that, I got a few dozen phone screens and about a half dozen face-to-face interviews. The thinly-veiled euphemisms for ageism were like a blizzard. Ageism and sexism are the prevalent forms of bigotry in the valley.

[noiretextatique]

9. i just turned 50

i have a decent job, but after i vest in the pension plan in august, i will be looking for another job. my strategy will be to focus on government...local and county. discrimination is rampant, but at least the government has to follow some guidelines in hiring. not so much in the private sector. i am not looking forward to the search.

[TahitiNut]

15. You're a mere child ... and I'd hire you in an instant, luv.

But you already knew that. :hug: :loveya: When I win the Lotto ... :silly:

It's far easier to find a job when you have a job. Here's floating some good vibes your way. :hi:

[noiretextatique]

19. i'd hire you too

you are one of the smartest people i've ever known :loveya:
ny real career ambition is also the win the lottery :hi:

[TahitiNut]

31. I'd take the job.

I could learn a lot from you, luv ... you're tops in my book. :hug:

[tonysam]

27. It's Also Far Easier to Find a Job if You Don't Have an Advanced Degree

It almost kills any chance for garden variety entry level jobs.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

29. Mediocrity is the word.

They don't want excellence.

You got a master's degree or a doctorate, you're too smart.

I ain't goin' back to retrain either!!!!!

Not after 12 years of grade school and 12 years of college!!! :grr:

[TahitiNut]

33. But.. but... but... the 'problem' with American workers is they need education and training.

:puke:

I damned near destroyed TVs when I heard that over and over and over again for the last ten years. (Then I'd go buy a McDonalds' Happy Meal from the PhD and EE behind the counter.)

[tonysam]

35. Did You Read the NYT Editorial This Weekend

talking about unemployment? They were STILL pushing the "retraining" and "going back to school" line.

The ONLY jobs coming out of this is those whose job it is to "retrain" workers.

[TahitiNut]

32. Age .. post graduate work ... awards ... Vietnam veteran ... these ALL counted against me.

Even when I pared down my resume to make it look like something from Pleasantville, the insecure idiots couldn't handle the age thing.

[tonysam]

25. I Barely Got Vested in Nevada PERS When the School District Sacked Me.

I am sure the son of a bitch who ran HR was hoping he could screw me out of retirement vesting, but he didn't realize I had had public employment in a previous job. I had just reached vesting for a couple of months when the school district wrongfully dismissed me over an FMLA form.

What I plan to do is look into getting an early pension, even though it would be only about 60 percent of what I would get if I waited until I am 65. There is no way I am going to wait that long, though, to collect.

[tonysam]

26. You Want to Be Careful About That.

Government employment, especially school district employment, is not what it appears to be. It's not the secure sector people think it is.

[noiretextatique]

40. thanks...fortunately i am an accountant

with some specialized government experience. i can search at my leisure for the right position because i am fairly secure where i am now.

[CTyankee]

22. Nowadays, sending out resumes just doesn't cut it. Personal relationships do.

Networking with people in your field and ELSEWHERE is essential.

I am retired but I recently got an invitation to pitch a course I had designed for a retired group to the head of the English Department at a local college! I was shocked, but I learned that local colleges had an upsurge of students wanting to finish/get degrees (which happens in a recession) and they would welcome a newer, fresher course in the department (you are required to take some English courses in standard BA courses).

You have got to find the areas of growth, few as they may be, and see where you might have a competitive edge. I will probably pursue this as I think it can't be all bad to be in an academic environment with people who value the humanities as I do...

Just a few thoughts on my own experience here....

[whathehell]

8. You "don't fit with our culture"...Sheesh!..That begs an explanation and doesn't

even SOUND legal...It could be a comment about race, gender, gender orientation..and yes, age...If I was that guy I'd get a lawyer.

[Deja Q]

10. Ageism is supposed to be illegal. And if one doesn't fit their culture, what are they: bacteria?

[nichomachus]

11. Yeah -- once you're over 50

and you go in for an interview with a 32-year-old hiring manager, you know you're not going to get the job.

The main reason is that you probably know a hell of a lot more than the person hiring you -- and no manager wants that.

When I was looking a couple of years ago, I was interviewed by three 20-something women. I was 62. Half way through the interview, I just knew I wasn't getting the job -- even though I had a lot of experience in exactly what they were looking for. I could just tell from the looks on their faces.

[Lost in CT]

17. Hell I have had that problem at 40... nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

12. this is old news.

I haven't had a decent job since 1996, and have not had any kind of a job, even temporary, since 2001. I guess we're supposed to crawl off and die.

I'm in my early 50s and I'll put up my three degrees (A.A.S., B.A. and J.D.) up against anyone's.

[livetohike]

14. I haven't worked since 2000

and I will be 57 in a couple of months. I have a B.S. and an M.B.A. You are not alone.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Despite the insecurity, I feel lucky to be self-employed

I have two friends and one relative who took early Social Security at 62, despite the financial disadvantage, simply to have SOME steady income. Despite lifetimes of job experience, they could find only temporary and part-time jobs once they lost their jobs after age 55. All were single (divorced, never married, widowed) with no children, and before getting Social Security, they were draining their 401(k) accounts, selling family heirlooms, even, in one case, selling a recently purchased house in which they had only $18,000 in equity, which of course, didn't last long.

They all told the same stories. After taking the "incriminating" dates off their resumes, they had great telephone interviews...but felt a distinct chill in the air as soon as they walked into the interview room to face a panel of thirtysomethings.

This happened literally dozens of times to each of them.

My fondest wish for those smug thirtysomethings is that some day, THEY should be the ones rejected for having gray hair.

Let this be a lesson to all you younger DUers who in a position to hire and fire: By the time s/he gets to you, that older worker has been beaten down and rejected so many times that s/he is ready to give up. If the person is qualified, swallow your adolescent hostility to your parents and hire him/her.

[wackywaggin]

16. What works when you are older looking for a job!!!

When I was looking for a new job at 47 years old, I found that explaining what and why life experiences make you more qualified for the position than a younger individual is always helpful. I explain how as an older employee I understand that projects don't always go from A to B to C to D. Sometimes problems come up which require one to start at B and A comes last in the project, which many young people just out of college don't understand as college is all about A to B to C to D. I think by demonstrating flexability in your ability to think outside the box, along with proven knowledge and results, you may find your job prospects improving. Good Luck!!!

[graywarrior]

18. They're afraid we older workers are cantankerous and set in our ways

and we are. When I was talking to a college advisor about completing my degree in a certain field and then discussed the hiring possibilities, she told me that I'd have a difficult time getting hired because of my age. This person is a personal friend, so she felt comfortable telling me that AND I really wanted to know what she experienced regarding older students getting jobs after graduation. Not promising at all.

[G_j]

20. at least I hope anyone who voted for Reagan now regrets it

piss-down economics, comes home to roost..

[tonysam]

23. I Have Been Out of Work for 11 Months

I was a "victim" of wrongful dismissal, but there is nothing I can do about it legally. Now I have to start over, and at 54 it is scary. I am NOT going to go into a "medical" type of job and get retrained, go into more debt, only to make nowhere near what I made as a teacher.

I could try to get teaching jobs, but so many of the applications demand I reveal whether or not I was fired when in fact I don't have to legally reveal it. It pisses me off.

I am not pessimistic, but it's scary when I am the sole support.

This stretch of unemployment is the longest I have ever been unemployed.

[omega minimo]

24. links and resources in the article......

:thumbsup:

[chollybocker]

28. I see many seniors working at McDonald's and the local donut shop

earning minimum wage alongside pimply-faced teen-agers, just to make ends meet. It's insulting, but they do it without great complaint. Unfortunately, a strong work ethic does not seem to be transferrable from one generation to another.

[Lost in CT]

30. I see elders but I haven't seen teens working fast food in years.

[tbyg52]

34. Preface: Of course you should be considered for jobs in your field regardless of age.

But if you're an older person at the end of your rope, you might consider teaching. I don't know about other states, but in Texas it's pretty easy to get your certificate if you already have a degree. I started at age 39, and we have a person in our department who started at over 50. Sure, the schools will take the young ones if they can find them, but often they can't. Sure, the pay's not CEO level, but what is nowadays? (Except for CEO's, I mean....) Plus I enjoy it more than any other job I've ever had. (YMMV.... ;) )

[tonysam]

36. I Did That. Loved the Kids but Despised the Administrators.

If you can get through a career in teaching without assholes out to sabotage you, you're lucky. I wasn't.

But in all honesty, teaching jobs aren't easy to get, never were, and the economy has made states all over the country cut back on their school budgets.

[tbyg52]

37. >>teaching jobs aren't easy to get

I guess I and the other oldster were just lucky....!

I know what you mean about administrators. The only thing I like about the area I'm living in is my job (and therefore would like to move), but we have good administrators at least at the building level, so I'm holding on for dear life. I've had bad jobs before and don't wish to take a chance on repeating the experience.

[blues90]

38. I used to get interviews back in 2006

But I never got one job I applied for and then I called back I found thay had many applications . I was 57 at the time.

Many jobs required back ground checks and I have no crime history and credit checks and I have no credit history and then there are those gaps since 2004 one a year long.

I tried every sort of job I knew I could do and even went to employment agencies and I was the first one out the door yet I never got one call back.

I don;t care what anyone says , if you are near 60 and the people interviewing you are half that age they want people close to their own age as co- workers and there is nothing you can do about it , there is no recourse if they don't hire you and age discrimination , well hell you would have an easier time trying to prove gravity does not exist.

No one gives a damn and there are really no jobs to be had that I can find . I lloked at ford motor dealerships on-line and found 8 jobs spread across the USA and not one near where I live. besides the auto industry is failing.

I tried every single customer service job out there on every web based job site and there is nothing out there , many know all of them by now.

I have worked from 1966 to 2004 without a gap .

Who really cares if you become just one more statistic and out of luck and on the street and at 60 it's even more horrifying .

I have been in this area since 1981 and every reference and contact I had is now retired or dead or gone away so there goes past references.

To re-train my mind shuts down because there is no way to afford this and nothing I can think of to re-train for . I even went to vocational rehabe because they seemed to say there were jobs , well you see a counseler and then a outsorced dept that shows you how to fill out an app and search the internet , well gee's I already know how to do that and they don't have job contacts.

So what is one to do , learn to be an urban outdoors man or pitch a tent in a tent city or leap to ones death and just count it as well I made it this far and now it's over I guess I was lucky to manage that this long.

No one gives a damn and never did unless it affects them then it suddely matters.

What we need are communes that work and the hell with this capitalistic swill that exists out there where position and money are all that mean anything or some degree hanging by yellow old paper that is now obsolete. Use our old skills and make something happen that does not depend on the system or die trying.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

41. YES!! We should all work together.

I have a place in the country if anyone wants to come help out. Seriously.

[Jennicut]

39. I am 33 and find this disgusting. Its just not right. I would hire any person at any age

if they were qualified. Makes me glad my Dad at age 61 has a lot of savings (not in the stock market!) and is going to retire soon. :(