CNN Video, Oprah: "If a man hits you once, he will hit you again"

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Oprah comments on Rihanna 5:33
CNN's Don Lemon speaks with radio personalities Martha Zoller and Warren Ballentine about hot topics on the radio.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/03/09/nr.radio.buzz.cnn

[Triana]

1. Oprah is absolutely right. n/t

[Wildewolfe]

7. It's not 100% absolutly true

25 years ago when I was young and newly married my wife went totally hysterical to the point she was a danger to herself. I was totally calm, made the totally incorrect rational decision that hysterical woman + slap cross the face equaled a return to calm and did it. Needless to say it didn't work out the way it does on TV or the movies. Now I didn't do it in anger at all so maybe there is something there, but I did learn from it.

[geek tragedy]

26. Ugh.

You haven't felt the need to rationally slap some hysterical woman around since then . . . yet.

Ugh, where are these people coming from.

[Wildewolfe]

44. Oh get off it...

25 YEARS ago I did what the culture and TV and movies and everything I was raised with said was the correct way to deal with the situation. It took exactly 30 seconds to see that all of that was wrong. I don't repeat mistakes like that twice. Oh it did succeed in stopping her from being self destructive. Cost me two broken ribs too, and no I didn't return those blows or any of the dozens of others she did over the years.

To put it in perspective before and after that event she was physically abusive and I never struck back once and more than once I got hurt for my troubles. The only time I ever did was when she was in danger of hurting herself she was so out of control. That marriage ended not cause I cheated on her (I didn't), not cause I beat her (I didn't). The reverse was actually true. The principal thing she'd go after me for was being a workaholic and trying to make us enough money to live.

I stuck with her for 11 years and I got hit dozens of times from her maybe hundreds and I just took it always hoping that tomorrow would be better.

If the reverse was true and I was female and she was male you wouldn't have made the comment. Yes, some do learn lessons and there are guys out there that take the beatings too and they can't do a damn thing about it most times. You want the relationship to work but wtf it only hurts a little right?

[Maru Kitteh]

147. You first.

This guy didn't apply cool steely logic (not that I believe you did) to the situation, he beat the ever-loving shit out of a woman until her face swelled like a balloon and she was choking on her own blood.

I'm certain most people understand that Oprah meant if a man BEATS you, he WILL BEAT YOU AGAIN. It's a FUCKING EXCELLENT RULE to stay alive by. Been there.

[dustbunnie]

139. Script writers had it easy back in the day.

You wrote a bunch of male dialogue, and the female leads just screamed hysterically throughout. We recently watched the Exorcist again, and for the first time I noticed that basically all Ellen Burstyn does is scream her head off throughout the whole damn thing. So annoying. Women still scream in film, but thankfully, aside from the "slut" who gets killed off early on for her promiscuity, at least heroines today do stuff to save the day as well.

Typical 50s female film dialogue:

Dahling, DAHLING, what shall we DO? I shan't survive I tell you, I shan't!! If only papa were alive, he'd know what to do. It's ruined, RUINED dahling, I shall die, I shall surely DIE. (Hysterical weeping as she falls against the man) Let me go, let me go, I hate you, I HATE YOU, (ineffectively beating at his chest girly-like) I must end it, I won't live this way.... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

(SMACK)

[ConcernedCanuk]

9. NO -she is not right -

.
.
.

I have hit women TWICE in my own life, and instantly felt guilty

The first time, was when I was in high school, and a girl that I used to walk back and forth with to school(not my girlfriend) called the girl I was presently dating a "slut"

I smacked her in the face (open palm) and immediately apologized - not that that made any difference, - we never walked to school together after that

so - no I never hit her again . . .

The second, and LAST time was over 3 decades ago - my wife at the time

She had constantly been disappearing from the home for days, never letting me know where she was

I was crazy in love with her, and paced around until she returned

One time, actually, I think it was the LAST time she returned(she since took off with the guy she had been cheating with unbeknownst to me) as I started to make sexual advances (gee -my own wife) she came out with a vicious insulting diatribe ending with "you only wanted me back so you could fuck me") - well that was NEVER her kind of language, and I had an instant outrage -

slapped her in the face - and the same thing transpired - I apologized, and then took a sleeping bag and went to the basement

We never slept together again after that night - she went to her boyfriend

and I ran away to California to try to drown my sorrow

it worked, sorta

But I never hit a girl since then - never will

I'll run away first

Oprah is wrong

[Scout]

14. so you did hit a woman more than once n/t

[Scout]

15. so you did hit a woman more than once n/t

[ConcernedCanuk]

19. YUP - two different females, ten years apart and over 30 years ago

.
.
.

your point?

[Scout]

29. no point other than to point out that you have hit women more than once

and for pretty piss-poor reasons too ....

"she said a bad word, i must hit her"

:eyes:

[geek tragedy]

34. Serial domestic violence offender.

Irony is truly lost on some people.

[Hannah Bell]

69. nice rolly eyes, very effective at indicating your withering disdain.

fuck "oprah" & her bullshit psychology.

she hyped "dr phil," remember?

oprah is a tool.

oh, & btw, I'm a woman who hit my husband numerous times.

he hit me once. only.

(none of our hits did any damage.)

there's more in life, horatio, than in the ruling class's bullshit tv-taught philosophy.

[geek tragedy]

77. Carry the patriarchy's water much?

Maybe you can lecture us on how women who lead men on deserve a little force-fucking every once and a while.

[Hannah Bell]

98. wow, indicative of how little you understood.

oprah, not carrying the "patriarchy's" water....right.

[geek tragedy]

130. I understand you accept the use of violence to assert control

over another human being.

That you have female genes doesn't mean you can't live out the values of the patriarchy.

[Scout]

84. "I'm a woman who hit my husband numerous times"

and are you proud of that?

:eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

99. not proud, not ashamed. but loooooove the eye-rollies.

[lukasahero]

108. You should be ashamed. eom

[geek tragedy]

129. So you're just a sociopathic abuser--'not ashamed'

Why are you discussing this issue when you don't have the moral credibility to do so?

[Hannah Bell]

132. you're silly.

[Mollis]

124. I have, too.

I guess you could say I have "hit" my boyfriend...it was something like...
He was driving and I was in the passenger seat and we were having some little tiff about something stupid. I said something about the way he was acting and he stepped on the gas harder than he should have or was necessary. I said, hey, don't do that. Then he turned really sharply into a parking lot so I hit him on the leg because he was driving stupid. Not a big deal or anything.

[Hannah Bell]

138. pretty much like my "hits". doesn't stop the oprah brigade from jumping in to call me a

violent psychopath, though.

[rvablue]

140. And what would have been your response after that happened

if your boyfriend had then pulled over, bit your lip, banged your head into the windshield, choked you and verbally threatened to kill you.....all for a slap on the leg for having already put your life in danger?

This is a serious question? Would you have left him? Thought you deserved it? What?

[Mollis]

141. If he had done that

then yes, I would have left him...I would probably have tried to punch him, too. And my dad would definently go after him.
But thankfully, he is not a violent person at all.

[rvablue]

142. Well this is exactly what happened to Rihanna and hence why Oprah is begging her to leave. n/t

[Mollis]

143. Ya, I know.

I never said she should stay.

[Maru Kitteh]

150. What you are describing is SELF DEFENSE. He was using the car as a WEAPON against you

There is a whole shitload of difference between striking someone with appropriate force to defend yourself (like you did) and beating the ever loving piss out of a person until she is choking on her own blood because got in your phone.

Fucking THINK. I can't believe girls your age are still socialized to BLAME BLAME BLAME themselves. Make it stop.

[wickerwoman]

144. But the only reason you didn't hit them more than once

was because they didn't give you the opportunity.

And you obviously didn't learn the "no hitting" rule from the first encounter because you did it again to another woman. So it's pretty safe to assume that if the first woman had put up with it, you would have eventually hit her again.

[Hello_Kitty]

22. Aside from the hitting, I find a turn of phrase you used troubling

"...as I started to make sexual advances (gee -my own wife)..."

A marriage license doesn't entitle a man to sex on demand and the way you said that leads me to believe that you think it does.

[geek tragedy]

25. The self-pitying batterer--now there's a credible voice. n/t

[KittyWampus]

65. and a DU'er descending into blatant name-calling has credibility?

[geek tragedy]

73. Funny how you're offended by rude behavior

but not by a serial wife-beating criminal lecturing women on domestic violence.

And, it's not an insult if it's true.

[ConcernedCanuk]

30. We were both already naked in bed - I had missed her - I ain't gonna apologize

.
.
.

"demand" is NOT what I did - I merely started moving closer

and you are wrong thinking that I think a marriage license entitles me to anything

BUT

I suspect you will keep your opinion of me no matter what I say - so

this is it . . .

I tell the truth

If people don't believe me,

I might as well not communicate with them

your call . . .

[Hannah Bell]

133. This thread is full of idiots. Ignore them. Oprah is a phony shill & the world

of human relationships is not encompassed by her so-called "wisdom".

[Scout]

135. it may be true that Oprah is a shill

however she is not the first person to say that if he hits you once, he'll hit you again.

and even if she is a shill, that does not mean she is never correct.

just keep ignoring the personal experiences of those posting, that agree with this statement.... :eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

137. i will so long as you keep ignoring the personal experiences of other of those posting....

the absolutist pop psychology is bullshit.

[Maru Kitteh]

152. If you have an 8 year-old child, do you hire a reformed pedophile to babysit?

Hey, he only did it once, and gee golly, now he understands what all the fuss is about!


Your denial of recidivism by VIOLENT domestic abusers is not supported by evidence.

[Maru Kitteh]

151. I've never watched an Oprah show in my whole LIFE. This is a broken clock thing.

I could give a rats ass about Oprah, but this time, she was right to say what she did, and I'm glad she did.

[JerseygirlCT]

105. Amen to that. nt

[geek tragedy]

24. In other words, they left you before you could slap them around

some more.

Sounds like they were smart and saw things as Oprah does.

Batterers like you are all the same--"this time I mean it--I won't ever do it again.'

Save it for the mini-series, Ike.

[pipi_k]

59. Exactly!!!

I was with a guy who tried to choke me one time.

We broke up soon after.

I have no doubt in my mind that he may have tried the same thing on other women he went out with, both before, and after, me.


And I have no doubt in my mind that, had I stayed with him, he would have tried to choke me again. Why? Because he would know that it's something I would tolerate.

We basically teach others how to treat us...what we'll take and what we won't.


Nobody ever got the chance to hit/choke me more than once.

[Saphire]

61. what I read was that they both did something to deserve it. Typical abuser.

It's never "their" fault, ya know.

[pipi_k]

66. That's usually the way it is

no responsibility taken.

It's always some lame ass version of "she made me do it".

[Cronopio]

92. Yep, blaming the Victim, whether they're telling the truth or not.

There certainly is a lot of blaming-the-Victim-itis going around in this society.

;-)

[Triana]

70. it's all about their little feelings and someone else's behavior. it's never about THEIR behavior...

...ever.

Deny.

Blame.

Minimize.

Project.


It's Abuser 101 from Abuser U. They all went to the same school.

[geek tragedy]

78. My wife goes up against these punks

in court all the time. Buncha sick-ass, weak-ass, cowardly bully losers.

Waa waa, my wife didn't give me any.

Barf.

[pipi_k]

74. You're probably not a bad guy...

but the fact that you never slapped either of these women again doesn't mean Oprah is wrong.

I'm wondering if, had you continued your relationships with either of these women and they did or said something that offended you, whether you would have slapped them again and then felt instantly guilty.

See, because neither woman was actually there for you to slap again after the first time. And by "there", I mean, emotionally connected in a way that would make you feel "safe" enough to do it again. So you can't say you would never have done it again. You simply never got the chance to...with them, anyway.

I don't imagine any man ever plots and plans to hit his girlfriend or wife. It's a spontaneous reaction to a trigger and needs to be addressed, even if it's been years since it happened. What I'm saying is, there's a reason within the person for acting out in violence, and it can lie dormant for a long time and appear years later under certain conditions.

[anigbrowl]

117. I'm not buying that

You're talking about it like it's an infectious disease for which there is no cure. The reality is that people often do stupid things when they're younger and then never repeat them. That's like calling someone an alcoholic because they've been drunk in the past. Most of the reactions to the posts above just seem ridiculously over the top.

[wickerwoman]

146. So would you approve of your daughter or sister

continuing to date a boy who hit her once because "we all do stupid things when we're younger"?

Would you let your loved one be driven home by someone with a DUI because "shit happens" and now he's really, really sorry?

I can't believe you would be that cavalier about it if we were talking about someone you really cared about being disrespected like this.

[Maru Kitteh]

149. I am happy for ALL of the women who have managed to get far, far away from you.

Actually, that's wrong.


I'm happy for all human beings and all non-human beings who have managed to get themselves far, far away from you.

YOU are wrong.

[Deja Q]

2. "Once a cheater, always a cheater"

Similar analogy works.

Still, if Chris really tries not to punch her, maybe he'll get some dignity back. She wants to be with him, maybe she knows best.

Ultimately, it's none of our business. We'll do in our lives what he couldn't do the first time and not beat our lovers, spouses, friend-with-benefits, orgy gang, concubine, et cetera, cetera.

[Kalyke]

3. Actually, abuse is our business.

It's a crime and crimes are the business of the entire community.

[Deja Q]

76. No argument from me on that. Sadly others would disagree, however,

but that's their problem. Until it hits them on the head with it.

[DearAbby]

4. She's Right.......-nt

[lmn84]

5. You must have a thing for Rihanna

You keep posting about it. But I disagree - not all men who hit a woman will hit her again. I think the majority WILL, but not all. Plus I hate sweeping statements like that - they irritate me.

But what bothers me most about this whole situation is that it's making domestic violence look like it's always a man beating up a woman. That's not the case, and I think that abused men really do need more attention and help than women. All these resources are available for women who are in abusive relationships, but what's out there for men?

[geek tragedy]

8. Oh snooze.

Yes, yes the real problem is that there's too much attention paid to the plight of battered women and the media is unfair to men who batter women and oh yes men are the real victims here.

[ElboRuum]

10. This will become a "popcorn" thread very, very soon.

A person makes a legitimate point, someone provides a pat retort. I can smell the trans-fatty fake butter product from here.

:popcorn:

[ConcernedCanuk]

27. We could probably start a poll on the side to see how long it takes for this thread to be locked?

.
.
.

I'll join you

:hide:

:popcorn:

[MadMaddie]

87. I think it's already there

:popcorn:

[lmn84]

11. I didn't say that

Please don't make assumptions about what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that there are very few resources available for men who are in abusive relationships, and your attitude proves another point - that men are often made to feel as if they shouldn't be in an abusive relationship. But it happens, and it's often neglected.

I'm saying that ALL domestic abuse is bad, and resources should be made available to all victims of abuse. But that's not the case.

[geek tragedy]

12. "abused men really do need more attention and help than women"

uh huh.

[lmn84]

13. Here, I'll make it really simple

Abused women have shelters, they are constantly the ones you see on the news and in the media. They are always the face of domestic violence. What happens to them is absolutely horrible. BUT what about men? Women have so many resources already available, hence why men need more help and attention than women at this point. Because they DO NOT have the same resources or help available to them.

If you don't get it after this, then I'm not going to bother responding again.

[geek tragedy]

17. Because there is much, much, much more serious violence

from men to women than the other way around. Efforts to help women are still woefully underfunded.

[Cronopio]

93. Like to try to substantiate that sweeping, generalized, dogmatic statement?

The part about "much, much, much more serious violence ...".

Not the part about women's shelters being woefully underfunded - I'm totally on board with that.

[wickerwoman]

145. It's not really a zero sum game but:

According to the FBI:

-Compared to males, females experienced over 10 times as many incidents of violence by an intimate. On average each year, women experienced 572,032 violent victimizations at the hands of an intimate, compared to 48,983 incidents committed against men.

-Females accounted for 84% of the persons treated in hospitals for injuries inflicted by intimates.

-In 1995 spousal murder victims were comprised of 33.8% men and 66.2% women

-31,260 women were murdered by an intimate from 1976-1996.

Yes, women are more likely to report abuse than men because of the stigma, but it's still pretty clear: about ten times as many women are beaten by partners as men. That abuse lands them in the hospital and/or the cemetery far more often than women's abuse of men.

It's pretty absurd to say "men are beaten too... we've done some stuff for women we'd better do some stuff for men too." We should have services for everyone, but since hundreds of women are still killed each year trying to escape abusive relationships and 66% of those murders and 84% of the hospitalizations involve female victims, I don't have a huge problem with a majority of the very limited resources going to help battered women.

[Maru Kitteh]

153. men are often made to feel as if they shouldn't be in an abusive relationship

NOBODY SHOULD BE IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


IF YOU ARE IN ONE..................... LEAVE.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Mollis]

122. delete

wrong place

[Scout]

18. funny how none of the DUers who post about the poor men, when in threads about women...

can ever bother to START THEIR OWN FUCKING THREAD ABOUT IT

if you think battered men need help, then start a shelter.

we women are sick to death of trying to do something good for ourselves, our daughters, our mothers, our sisters and when we do then some whiner comes in with "but what about the poor widdle menz, patriarchy hurts them too, why don't you care about them?"

if you are so worried about violence against men by women, then do something about it your own self, and leave us alone.

[lmn84]

21. I am a woman

And I have been in an abusive relationship. Don't make assumptions about me, and I am doing something in my own community about it. It doesn't stop it from being a neglected issue, though. No human being should be abused, period. Their gender shouldn't matter.

[Scout]

28. so, you are a woman. i never said you weren't.

so what?

i've been in an abusive relationship too.

[lmn84]

31. you said

we women are sick to death of trying to do something good for ourselves, our daughters, our mothers, our sisters and when we do then some whiner comes in with "but what about the poor widdle menz, patriarchy hurts them too, why don't you care about them?"

Please, speak for yourself. Not all women think just about women being abused. Ya know, maybe it's because I worked as a dispatched for the police department and I got to hear women beating the crap out of their spouses and watch as these guys felt as if there was something wrong with them for allowing this to happen. They should've been "tougher", only weak men get beat up by their wives, right?

As I said before, no human should be treated like that.

[Scout]

46. you assume i don't think about men being abused?

i never said anyone deserves to be beat up either. MOST women don't think just about women being abused. I just find it odd that the subject of women beating men never seems to come up EXCEPT in threads about women being beaten by men.

quit making shit up.

if you're worried about men, start your own thread about it.

[geek tragedy]

23. they can't stand to see talk of how men victimize women.

they just NEED to come in and assert their own victimhood

[Hello_Kitty]

36. The Menz Must Be Paid Homage!

Seriously, it's like every discussion of oppression of women MUST begin with a disclaimer where we recognize that some men are Nice Guys who don't oppress women. Although even if you do include the disclaimer, almost invariably some man (or woman who for whatever reason feels she needs to take up for the poor widdle menz) will show up to lecture about "painting with a broad brush" and inform us that he doesn't do any of those things and we failed to acknowledge that.

[geek tragedy]

38. We have a serial domestic abuser in here telling

us that Oprah is wrong that men who abuse once are likely to do it again.

No kidding.

[KittyWampus]

67. "serial domestic abuser"? It seems you've decided to be an internet bully in this thread

You aren't standing up for anything at all.

What you are doing right now is taking an opportunity to trash someone else.

Hope you feel good about yourself.

[geek tragedy]

72. Yeah, the guy who slapped his wife around is the

real victim here.

[Triana]

68. Gotta protect their poor widdle egos - and yaknow - everything is ALL about THEM..

....they're such victims of abuse. Let's look at some numbers:

DoJ stats


* Domestic violence is the single most common source of injury to women – it is more common than auto accidents, muggings, and rapes by a stranger combined.

(CAN THE SAME BE SAID ABOUT COMMON SOURCES OF INJURY TO MEN? I DOUBT it)


* 97% of the women killed by another family member were killed by their husband.

(CAN THE SAME BE SAID ABOUT MEN WHO WERE KILLED BY ANOTHER FAMILY MEMBER?)



* More than 4,000 women each year are killed by their partners.

(CAN THE SAME BE SAID ABOUT MEN? How many of THEM are killed by partners each year?)



* By age 20, 1 in 3 young women will experience dating violence.

(CAN THE SAME BE SAID ABOUT MEN - WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THEM WILL EXPERIENCE DATING VIOLENCE BY AGE 20? WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THEM WILL BE PERPETRATORS OF IT?)

[Winterblues]

20. You may be correct and then again you may not but would you

stay in a relationship where your spouse hit you, and if you did would you ever fear you may be hit again?

[YOY]

6. Actually that goes for any gender.

Don't let people hit you and don't hit people.

I dated a girl who thought it would be cute to slap me in the back of the head while I was driving (hard I may add) because she was mad at me for not doing something or another for her...I think it was stopping at a fast food restaurant...really trivial.

That was it. She walked the rest of the way home. Safe neighborhood and in the day light...plenty of time to think about not hitting people. Part of me felt ungentlemanly...but I put her in no danger and she was no lady.

I heard she had a thing for guys she could bully. The guy after me was a real Harvey Milquetoast. I wonder where she picked up such a habit. Regardless, no body in any relationship should ever hit anyone else.

NEVER.

[Dorian Gray]

51. You did the right thing

She not only hit you, but put you both in danger by hitting your head while driving. She deserved the walk home. (She did not deserve to be hit back, which you did not do. Perfectly gentlemanly response, I believe.)

[YOY]

57. Oh I didn't hit back at all.

I did shout at her to get the hell out of my car if she was going to act like a 5-year-old. She just gave me a snotty look insulted my manhood (I'm nothing to be ashamed of but that's where they thought she could hurt me) and slammed the car door.

Hind sight being 20/20 some people have issues. That one had a whole subscription.

[Hello_Kitty]

16. Yep.

[lunatica]

32. This is usually true, but it's also a generalization and has exceptions

But I do think Rhianna's boyfriend will be a repeat beater because of one thing. He actually beat her senseless. It wasn't a kneejerk reaction to her mouthing off and he slapped her one time. He hit her repeatedly and he also left her unconscious in the car. To me that's definitely the kind of actions that someone who has no control over their rage has. The operative word is 'uncontrollable'. In other words the next time he gets that mad his rage will again be 'uncontrollable' and he'll beat her up again. And every time thereafter it will get worse unless he is stopped by more than Rhianna.

[Hello_Kitty]

35. It's appropriate to put uncontrollable in quotes

Because you'll notice that those who "snap" into "uncontrollable rages" and beat people up ALWAYS pick someone smaller and weaker than them, and often someone who is emotionally attached to or financially dependent on them.

[lunatica]

37. Yeah, it's funny how they can 'control' their rage when confronted with the cops

Or other men who can step in and give them a taste of what it feels like. Funny that.

:sarcasm:

It's always the victim's fault too. Even their kids 'make them do it'

[Triana]

60. He beat her before that incident too. The abuse had gotten progressively worse...

...as it usually does.

[babythunder]

162. Spot on!

Not justifying hitting but if it was a rough shake or a push then maybe an argument could be made for him just reacting poorly in the moment. But a full-fledged assault singles to me that this guy has serious violence issues and should be locked up for his crimes.

[noiretextatique]

33. i agree with oprah

leave the first time to avoid the possibility of a second time. if i meet someone who is too pushy or too controlling or too jealous...i run for the hills. those personality traits are warnings.
here's a line from one of my poems: "people always reveal the truth of who they are in time, first a whisper, then a shout, then a landmine.'
when i was younger, i would stick around through the whispers, some of the shouts, and even a landmine or two. now, i heed the whispers and avoid the psychos.

[Karenina]

47. Beautiful!

"people always reveal the truth of who they are in time, first a whisper, then a shout, then a landmine."

[Triana]

62. I agree with Oprah and you...

...and I love that line.

[Number23]

106. So true. And if only it was always that easy.

Sometimes you're with the psycho. Sometimes you ARE the psycho.

I've had some relationships in the past where I think about what I put up with, I can't help but say "what in hell was I thinking??"

And then other times when I think about what I put the OTHER person through, I can't help but say "what in hell was I thinking?"

[noiretextatique]

131. it is that easy

or maybe i'm just cautious :7 but i've had a few stalkers in my time, and i don't give people a chance if my instincts tell me i shouldn't. i am pretty fng crazy sometimes myself, but i have never terrorized or threatened anyone. i have never broken into someone's home, or hit anyone with a crowbar, or threatened to kill anyone, or slashed anyone's tires. those kinds of behaviors are what i consider psycho.

[Number23]

134. I see.

i have never broken into someone's home, or hit anyone with a crowbar, or threatened to kill anyone, or slashed anyone's tires. those kinds of behaviors are what i consider psycho.

I would COMPLETELY have to agree with you on that. :) I thought you meant "normal" psycho behavior like starting a fight over something soooo stupid because it's the culmination of a week's worth of crap that you just kept quiet about and it's all spilling over now. Or having an argument and leaving and sitting in a parking spot at the grocery store for half an hour because you have nowhere else to go but you damn sure don't want to go home at that moment.

You know. "Normal" psycho stuff. :)

[noiretextatique]

136. that's just run of the mill crazy

not psycho ;)

[Lorien]

107. Absolutely!

Very well put indeed. :thumbsup:

[TexasObserver]

39. If a person hits you, they will hit you again.

The rapper and his girlfriend both engaged in domestic violence, according to the police reports. His violence against her was more serious. Her violence against him came first. She attacked him physically as he was driving.

Domestic violence is a problem for both gay and straight couples. Both men and women are the initial attackers, and both men and women fight back. Men are typically stronger and bigger, however, and do more physical damage than women who commit domestic violence.

Domestic violence is unfortunately an element of some subcultures in America, and any treatment of it needs to address the roles of both genders in creating and perpetuating it. In this case, they should both be charged with domestic violence, because they both committed domestic violence. There's no reason she should get a pass. They both committed a crime.

[geek tragedy]

43. Ugh.

I'm just now realizing, between this and the "prostitution is great" thread just how deep misogyny runs here.

[noiretextatique]

45. right...she pushes him

he beats her to a bloody pulp and they're both guilty :puke: unfortunately for this crowd, the DA's office hasn't filed any charges against her.

[Cronopio]

95. Well yeah. She let him beat her to a bloody pulp.

She should have had a better attitude, better fighting skills, better support group, bigger gun, more friends, etc., etc..

This is America we're talking about, where no one gets abused unless they somehow ask for it first.

[TexasObserver]

126. The topic is domestic violence, and your comment is a non sequitur.

[Wildewolfe]

53. They both should be charged

...the charge he gets should be higher though by the sounds of what was reported.

If I read the laws right hers would be misdemeanor but his graduates to felony.

[TexasObserver]

55. That's sounds right. Hers is a misdemeanor, his is a felony.

[Elidor]

40. Gee, where to begin

Rihanna told police (on the day that Brown beat her up) that he had attacked her before, and that the attacks were getting worse. It's way past the point of speculating that he'll do it again.

I knew a man who once hit his wife during a heated argument. They went to therapy, and he took a class on domestic violence. He took it all to heart and was very diligent about controlling his anger. During the several years I knew him, he talked at great length about his guilt. He considered himself to be in recovery, and nonviolence was something he worked on every day. He had a shelf full of books on the subject of domestic violence, and was very familiar with them all. He never hit her again. (They divorced some time later, but he never hit his next wife.)

Some people in this thread hate the notion that anyone could point out that women are not the only victims of domestic violence. Nevertheless, it works both ways. Though there is conflicting data on how often men are victims of domestic violence, there's plenty of evidence that it occurs on a regular basis. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence#Statistics ). That same article cites data on domestic abuse in lesbian relationships, as well.

Small chance of any rational discussion of the subject on DU, where the serially-offended will start a flame war over any trivial matter, much less something serious and disturbing, aided and abetted by the serial trolls who are mysteriously tolerated by the powers that be.

[Maru Kitteh]

154. Your acquaintance was the exception. He WILL beat you again is more likely to be true than untrue.

Therefore, the message itself can be a vital survival strategy.


Asking, or even suggesting that the abused to stay (or consider doing so) on the off chance that they may be so lucky as the victim of your anecdotal aquaintance is illogical and unconscionable.

[bdamomma]

41. I agree with Oprah on her comment.

[Marr]

42. I don't think Oprah's absolute statement is absolutely true, but...

I do think it's a good assumption to work under. It's not as if there's a shortage of men or women.

[Maru Kitteh]

155. It's an excellent assumption to SURVIVE under.

[Peregrine Took]

48. My ex boss (woman) used to say if a guy even made a joke like "I ought to

punch you in the nose for...." or "I ought to pitch you out the window for doing....." she would never see him again.

Just verbally saying the words telegraphed the later actions to her.

I think she was absolutely right.

[Swede]

49. He choked her. Next time it could be fatal.

Run.

[serrano2008]

50. This may not be 100% true but it's definitely not worth it to find out.

No guy that hits a woman is worth sticking around for. None of them. Just move on. There's plenty of other guys out there that don't treat women like sh*t that if a guy hits a woman once she should be out the door.

[Cronopio]

96. Exactly. It's better to assume the worst, even if they just verbally threaten violence.

Don't hit back, don't threaten back. Just divest and put distance between you and them.

[closeupready]

52. While I disagree with her blanket statement, I do think it sounds like it will get worse.

She needs to get out of that relationship. As I understand it, Tina Turner left Ike because his beatings were becoming so bad that she felt certain if she stayed, it would get gravely serious.

Remember Halle Berry? Abuse from a partner left her deaf in one ear.

Rihanna needs to move on.

[fascisthunter]

54. Unless this man gets help for himself, he will propbably abuse her

or another again.

[treestar]

56. Such an absolutist statement makes it rather hopeless

Like the guy will be this way all of his life. Probably as he gets older, he settles down. It'd be too hopeless - you'd have a whole set of men who should never be in any relationship ever again.

Granted there are fewer women batterers. Still, they exist. Is the same not true for them?

[pipi_k]

63. The same is true for women who slap men

if they do it once, they'll do it again.

People don't automatically get this big "revelation" and suddenly stop doing something that's driven by irrational anger.

It takes quite a bit of therapy to get past the need to act out anger on another human being.


So, calling someone a "batterer" isn't reason to think that a man (or woman) can never have a relationship again. As long as the person knows he or she has a problem and gets help, there is always hope for a relationship free from physical abuse.

[geek tragedy]

81. Anger, and the need to control.

Notice how these guys really don't like it when the woman breaks a 'rule' like not providing sex like she's 'supposed' to or if she talks back to him, etc etc.

[pipi_k]

86. yep, and you know what's really sad?

these guys, deep down underneath, are nothing but quivering lumps of jelly, afraid of being abandoned.

They're so afraid that they try to control literally EVERYTHING.

and many times they end up causing the very thing they fear...abandonment...when the woman leaves them.


I'm torn between wanting to cry for them and wanting to stomp their faces into a bloody pulp.

argh.

mixed feelings stink

[geek tragedy]

89. I have no such mixed feelings.

They are cowards and bullies. I feel the same pity for them that I do for Dick Cheney.

[Maru Kitteh]

156. He didn't slap her.

She was choking on her own blood.

[geek tragedy]

79. These guys generally don't get better.

They just move on and find another woman who won't resist.

Any woman that dates Chris Brown in the future has shitty, shitty judgment

[treestar]

110. Maybe if no one would date him

He'd improve in order to get a date. But unfortunately, there's usually some women wanting to rationalize it - or believe they can change him.

[Cronopio]

101. They might get better, but it's best not to gamble your physical and psychological safety on it.

The abusers need to show remorse and a *consistent* change of behavior before "getting better" can be assumed.

Forgiveness is too sacred to be given away for free. Contrition comes first.

[seabeyond]

58. yup... that is what happens. told the guy it is ok to be a punching bag.

i also agree once a cheater..... wink

[Codeine]

64. The obverse is also true;

any woman that hits you once will hit you again and again until you leave. I have learned this through bitter experience.

[malaise]

71. Two true stories

My best friend's first husband hit her once. She had never been hit in her life - saw no violence in her home. She broke every single record in his prized collection and waited for him to return home. She then told him what she had done and let him know that if he ever put his hand on her again, she's wait until he fell asleep, heat up a gallon of oil, stick a funnel down his ear and fry his brains.

He never hit her again, but she moved out with their toddler and divorced him a few months later. Word is that he beat up his second wife with regularity until she jumped on an aircraft and never returned.

Another good friend was in a relationship with a very talented musician. She was an awful man - used to make passes at all her friends and hit her regularly.
We pleaded with her and she said she was going to leave him and was making plans.
After one beating she left New York and flew home for a few weeks, sorted out her life and returned to pick up her stuff. She didn't know how to tell him so she waited for her sister and a good friend from her island to be with her when she told him. Well he waited until the male friend left the room and threw her and her sister out of the hotel room in Manhattan. They both died instantly. He then jumped in front of the A train and committed suicide. That was way back in the 1970s.

Moral of the story - do not wait around for the second hit.

[geek tragedy]

75. Exactly. One strike and you're out (and in jail!). n/t

[pipi_k]

82. It's when I hear/read stories like these that I wish

self defense for women was a part of the school curriculum.

Any kind of martial arts form that will give these poor women a sense of worth (because women who stick around for repeated abuse do it from a sense of feeling scared and worthless) and also, self-defense training will even the "playing field" for women when men know that they're likely to get their own asses whipped in return.

Another thing I wish is that anger management be taught in school for everyone.

It's highly unlikely, however, even though we know that inappropriate acting out of anger is a big problem in this country.

[sohndrsmith]

80. When we start recognizing psychological/emotional abuse as a crime

and not just "a shame" then I'll start hootin' and hollerin'. It is just as torturous and destructive as physical violence when it reaches certain levels. It can ruin lives and the scars/bruises may never heal...

[geek tragedy]

83. You can't criminalize hurt feelings.

Sorry, but there is a grand difference between emotionally hurtful actions (which go on in all relationships) and physical violence.

They are not equal, and the woman who hurts her husbands feelings and the husband who slaps her around are not equally guilty. One is a criminal, the other is a victim. Period.

[sohndrsmith]

90. I'm not talking about hurt feelings - which are a part of normal life, absolutely.

I can guarantee you that psychological abuse can (and does) reach to a level that destroys lives. That is not "hurt feelings"... far from it. It is frightening and devastating and cumulative.

If you read my post more carefully, you would see that I make the distinction.

[geek tragedy]

91. Emotional abuse and physical abuse are often

part of the same cycle or pattern.

Still, there's just no way to criminalize emotional abuse. A punch to the face is a discernible crime.

[sohndrsmith]

94. actually, I disagree. That's like saying white collar crime or stalking or harassment

are not "discernible" crimes because of the lack of physical injury. One can prove emotional abuse - especially if documented, and especially over time. It's more difficult, for sure... but that's no excuse to ignore the problem entirely, but I think that's what's going on. It's ugly and messy and hard to determine - unless there are guidelines... there can and should be such guidelines.

I don't believe that we should just determine crimes because they're easier to evaluate. Not all harm or injury is physical. We already have laws that prove this.

[Triana]

102. verbal and emotional abuse can be defined, documented, identified and should be. . .

...MUCH physical abuse could be prevented if it was, as verbal and psychological abuse escalates to physical abuse - physical abuse is ALWAYS preceded by VA and EA and accompanied by it.

Furthermore, verbal and psychological abuse takes much longer to recover from than physical.

http://www.escapeabuse.com/?p=149

NO ONE argues with the psychological abuse that prisoners in Guantanimo Bay and Abu Ghraib are subjected to.

BUT SOMEHOW - when the same type of verbal and psychological abuse occurs in the home or in an intimate/domestic relationship - it's "not abuse" and "can't be identified as a crime."

Well it CAN BE identified, documented, and defined and should be made part and parcel of the laws against abuse because it IS abuse. Period.

It is part of the SAME campaign of power and control over another person that abusers carry out against their partners.

To minimize the damage it does by calling it "hurt feelings" is like calling the pain of sliding down a bannister of razor blades into a pool of alcohol a "little sting".

Bullshit. Verbal and emotional abuse does a LOT more damage, and a lot more LONG LASTING damage than "hurt feelings" - so those here who are doing that minimizing schtick about psychological and verbal abuse can just chuck the cheap minimization of the problem and its consequences.

Verbal and emotional abuse is part and parcel of domestic abuse and domestic violence -- and to ignore it is to ignore at LEAST HALF of the problem outright - and this is ONE REASON that it has thus far not been mitigated -- because we are NOT DEALING WITH THE ENTIRE PROBLEM and not dealing with it UNTIL IT BECOMES PHYSICAL when in reality the ABUSE begins long before it becomes physical - it STARTS with verbal and emotional abuse and escalates to physical. UNTIL and UNLESS it is stopped WHERE IT STARTS - it won't be stopped.

[sohndrsmith]

111. thank you. You say it much more succinctly than I was able to. Kudos to you.

Unfortunately, things still need to change. I think they ultimately will... and I look forward to that day.

thanks again.

[Triana]

112. Somebody needs to say it. I'll be saying it until the day I die...

...this is something that badly needs to be recognized yet just goes completely ignored - to the detriment of abuse victims everywhere.

We don't wait until cancer is at its final stages to treat it - catch it early is the mantra. Same for DV - catch it early - early stages are verbal/emotional abuse -- which then escalates to physical. Recognizing the verbal/emotional abuse is possible. Stopping it is possible. It takes education and legal resources but can be done - and should be done. All that needs to be established is the definition (which has been done) and a pattern of behavior - that's it. It's not rocket science at all.

Patricia Evan's book "Verbal Abuse: How to Recognize it and How to Respond" is the bible on the subject. It has already been defined.

[geek tragedy]

128. I'm familiar with how our legal system works and

there is no way it's capable of sorting out emotional abuse from dysfunctional relationships from hurt feelings. It can't even get domestic violence right and other basic stuff right.

[Matariki]

85. It's a pretty good rule of thumb that would save a lot of women from a lot of hurt

And, not to be sexist, the reverse also holds true. If your partner hits you, ever, you have a serious problem on your hands. The pattern of hitting followed by remorse and apologies followed by future hitting - is a cliche for a reason.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

88. You know what the really smart abusers do?

They abuse you emotionally, so that they can destroy you and not be arrested for it.

Sneaky bastards.

I got emotional and mental abuse. I ended up with my health cratered in the hospital with pneumonia. I was terribly sick for about five years. And the SOB said he was embarrassed because I was using his insurance in the hospital. We were married. I also had to pay him child support when I did not have a steady job and could not find a job. He has worked at the same place for almost 30 years.

Power trip.

[Triana]

97. verbal and emotional abuse does as much damage as physical except isn't visible...

...as in bruises and broken bones, etc.

I'd like to see these types of abuse addressed - for one thing, they often escalate to physical abuse, eventually. IF the abuse was stopped at verbal/emotional stages such that it didn't get a chance to escalate to physical - much physical abuse could potentially be prevented. It only makes sense.

For another thing, verbal and emotional abuse is just as damaging as physical and takes much longer to recover from.

http://www.escapeabuse.com/?p=80
http://www.escapeabuse.com/?p=157

[shanti]

119. sure is

oftentimes, it goes hand in hand with physical abuse.

[Cronopio]

103. The super-clever (but stupid) abusers build a support group that they treat like gold ...

... and reserve their isolation tactics and abuse for the only truly open and vulnerable person in their lives - their spouse.

They make the abuse selective like a mercenary does, and it pays off when they can make their spouse look crazy to their support group, after the spouse has stopped believing in the power of free forgiveness and started questioning the relationship. Then the support group's derision and disbelief of the spouse amplifies the abuse.

And you're right, it's all just a power trip for the abuser. The unfortunate spouse needed a relationship with a human being and ended up with a soulless, tactical state machine.

[Triana]

104. the jekyll/hyde act pays off for abusers in that way - isolate and discredit the victim

...and their allies know none the better.

http://www.youarenotcrazy.com

[sohndrsmith]

113. ...and the victims end up thinking to themselves... "man, I wish he'd

just hauled off and hit me." Understand - I do not condone or minimize physical abuse WHATSOEVER, but I speak from the perspective of being a non-physical target. There are few things as disturbing as seeking help everywhere you can - and being dismissed at every turn. Being told I could only get help if I'd been physically hit (or if he'd left a mark when he hit my daughter). It was so frustrating because we were under attack. And still are, though the circumstances constantly change.

This has nothing to do with gender - women and men are equally capable of this kind of destructive abuse. It's probably more of an equal opportunity behaviour because it doesn't rely on physical power or strength... It's pure evil, either way. And there's no excuse that it isn't considered a formal crime.

I believe this is considered a crime in Canada - so the argument that it's "impossible" to define as such doesn't fly...

[Triana]

114. I'm so sorry you're going through this...

...many times I've heard people who are being emotionally abuse say "I wish (s)he'd just hit me!" - so THEN they could get help.

Truely, help should be available LONG before that. It's hardly fair to a target of abuse to have to wish it becomes physical before getting assistance or protection - just so they can GET protection or assistance. If they can criminalize it in Canada they can damn well do it here and they SHOULD. There are NO excuses.

[sohndrsmith]

120. I wish my kids weren't going through it... and thanks.

Clearly you understand. You're right - help should be available, but it isn't. Someday.... I just hope - someday things will be in place for others.

I don't mean to get off-topic, but I did (sorry). But the insidiousness of physical DV (as in cases like Rhianna's - though I don't profess to know her personal situation exactly) the psych/emotional problems can be what keeps a victim in a violent relationship - or going back to one.

[Lorien]

109. That's horrible. I'm really sorry that that happened to you

:hug:

I have no stomach for petty, insecure little men who are in any way abusive any more. Every last one of those abusive types is a complete fool; kindness will cost them nothing, but will bring them great rewards, while cruelty can ultimately cost them everything. They just don't understand that bullying is NEVER something that will bring them love...or anything remotely positive or worthwhile. They are the lowest life forms and aren't worthy of anyone's notice.

[Darth_Kitten]

100. Gee, thanks Oprah, it you say it it must be true.

:eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

115. Certainly if a boy hits a girl, he's the TYPE of boy to hit girls. And no girl deserves such a boy.

[defendandprotect]

116. Absolutely . . . ..!!!!

[shanti]

118. she's right

coming from personal experience, and oprah is too. dad never raised his hand to mom, so when it happened to me by my EH, it was shocking. it just never occured to me that the man who professed to love me, would hurt me. it was the first and last time it happened as i left him shortly afterwards with my toddler son. there was no way i was raising my son to learn abusive behavior.

[Triana]

121. GOOD for you! You are to be commended for leaving. I think it is child abuse

for children to have to witness abuse - to be exposed to it - and the blame for that abuse also falls directly at the feet of the abuser, who - if they were thinking of anyone besides themselves, would consider their children and behave differently - instead of putting the kids and the other parent in that position of having to either tolerate it or leave.

Abusers are very sick, troubled people - and kids who witness abuse are more likely to grow up to be abused or abusers themselves - to also be troubled. It's extremely damaging for the target parent and the kids to suffer abuse. Abuse destroys families - it's not just a "women's issue" - or an issue for the victims of abuse (men too) - it's a family and a moral issue.

You were very wise to take your son and leave that environment.

[Maru Kitteh]

123. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

[IrishBuckeye]

125. I really never thought about it but I just read 1 in 3 women are abused

Does anyone know if that stat is correct? Anways, I like to think people can change but why would you harm a female in the first place? From my limited research it seems that overwhelmingly the abuser will indeed abuse again.

(edit: meant to reply to the original post, sorry)

[Maru Kitteh]

127. Welcome to DU Irish! Good to have you!

In a lifetime, I find it utterly plausible to very damn likely that AT LEAST 1 in 3 women will be abused in their lifetime and I have seen that statistic backed up by credible sources like HHS.

People harm each other for such an amazing variety of reasons.

I happen to think that the strongest means of behavior regulation in this matter are 1). Modeling (how did Dad and Mom interact) 2.) Modeling (see #1) 3.) Peers and society

[ddeclue]

148. Welcome to Entertainment Undeground....

sigh...

[Nicecat]

157. WOMEN ABUSERS

I here so much about Chris Brown beating Rihanna. How Chris Brown did this and did that. RIHANNA beat Chris Brown!!!!!! Not just this time but other times because she rather stay with him while he cheats than to walk away. I will hit him then makeup with him. WTF ever!!!!! They both need help, but don't blame Chris Brown only....RIHANNA physically abused him on several occasions. Lets talk about that. OH, btw...I am a woman and I will pray for them both. I am married and if I hit my husband...he WILL hit me back..so I wouldn't dare..AND HE IS NOT AN ABUSER!! Don't hit if you don't want to get hit back. Men get blamed for abuse when the woman beats the man and she will continue to do so because the media does not say it's wrong.....EXCEPT if the man is doing the beating. ALL YALL need to wake up!! Oprah, lets talk about FEMALE abusers that causes a man to fight back!! IF SHE HIT once SHE WILL HIT AGAIN! RUN CHRIS RUN as fast as you can away from her because she will beat you again!

[Scout]

158. you took the trouble to sign up, for that?

Welcome to DU, I think

:eyes:

[Nicecat]

160. And you even more just to reply cause I caught your attention

It was my pleasure!

[Critters2]

161. So you and your fortunate husband both hit one another?

Yeah. That's good to know.

[ColesCountyDem]

159. Adults do not hit other adults, children or animals, except in self-defense-- period.

It's part of what being an adult is all about.