Illegal immigrants might get stimulus jobs, experts say

[Christa]

LOS ANGELES — Tens of thousands of jobs created by the economic stimulus law could end up filled by illegal immigrants, particularly in big states such as California where undocumented workers are heavily represented in construction, experts on both sides of the issue say.

Studies by two conservative think tanks estimate immigrants in the United States illegally could take 300,000 construction jobs, or 15% of the 2 million jobs that new taxpayer-financed projects are predicted to create.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2009-03-08-immigrant-jobs_N.htm

WTF???

[TahitiNut]

1. Well, isn't that just ...

... special?


:popcorn:

[Smith_3]

9. Next week: "Obama gives tax cuts to pedophiles."

:popcorn:

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[theoldman]

2. This may be a good time to force the contractors to check the ID of the workers.

I have always maintained that if you imposed a big fine on the boss he/she would not hire illegal immigrants.

[Andy823]

30. I agree.

The employer is the one that needs to be stopped, and the only way to do so is to make fines high enough, and give them jail time if the continue to hire illegals.

Now I know some here don't seem to care, but when we have millions of citizens without work, it is time to enforce the laws, and go after the employer. We can't get our economy back by hiring illegals while millions of citizens go without work just so some "greedy" employer can increase their profits!

[liberalhistorian]

32. Brace yourself for the sure-as-rain

"racism" charges from those here who couldn't care less that millions of Americans are out of jobs and who blame THEM, while believing that illegal immigrants and foreign workers should get all the breaks here. Disgusting, but they exist here. I'm surprised they haven't descended on this thread already. ,

[OhioChick]

33. Well said, Andy.

:thumbsup:

[Igel]

35. And make it fairly simple for the

folk checking IDs to be able to tell if they're valid.

I've had that job. Sometimes you know that the person's lying but have no proof (and if they can say you're accusing them just because of their accent or skin color, you're toast). Sometimes you know that a group of people are lying (but unless you do the same kind of investigation for all of a certain kind of ID, or for all people, you're toast). Often you simply don't know, you just suspect.

The law requires that you *know* an ID is fake before rejecting it, that you *know* a person's an illegal alien before you can be judged guilty of hiring an illegal alien.

Twenty years ago Congress said it would set up a means of verifying eligibility. It should have done so long ago.

Other than that little problem, I agree with you.

[marmar]

3. "Studies by two conservative think tanks"

'Nuff Said.

[BlooInBloo]

5. You would *think* that'd be 'nuff said, wouldn't you?

[YOY]

7. What is the difference between us and them?

They'd rather everyone starve than to have a few cheaters.
We'd rather have a few cheaters (and root them out) than to have everyone starve.

[TahitiNut]

13. Do you believe jobs should go to the "lowest bidder" (whomever will DO the job for the least pay)?

It's a simple question. :shrug:

[NNN0LHI]

17. We have that going on right now every day between American citizens who refuse to unionize

And it has nothing to do with undocumented workers.

Don

[LanternWaste]

19. The only jobs I've lost through no fault of my own...

The only jobs I've lost through no fault of my own were lost to younger, less-experienced, less-paid, Lilly-white Americans. They were, I was later informed, the "lowest bidder."

[YOY]

20. Woah TN, two for two. Did I do something to piss you off recently?

I'm talking about Republicans ripping on any program designed to help socially. The stimulus as a whole.

E.g. Wellfare. It's needed. Some folks cheat. In our view that's bad but it needs to be prevented and the system preserved or fixed. In their view Wellfare needs to go away completely.

They are trying the same philosophy with the stimulus. Ergo..."The difference between us and them."

As for me personally? I am going to say it would be best that the money went to those who will do the job the best and to have the maximum impact on restimulating the economy. If they are the cheapest, I'd be surprised but the contracting world and goverement bids are not as difficult to understand as some woudl like us to think...

[Tex-Slim]

24. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES...

Actually, there is an optimum point with several variables, and I will use quality and price as two key representatives to provide a simple explanation...

You want to drive price down to the point you are competitive without sacrificing the quality necessary to stay competitive - as when quality declines below a minimally acceptable level customers will seek another supplier with higher standards, obviously. Remember those Firestone tires on the Fords? If you drive the wage down too low you get to a point where it isn't worth the labor supply's time or effort to learn to do the job properly and, gee, quality suffers! If you let the wage get high enough, someone else will undercut you and will slowly be able to drive you out.

If you set wage/price points artificially and let government run everything, you will fail every time, unfortunately, as the collapse of the Eastern Bloc proved.

Apparently, though, some believe it. Just look at all the fuss that was made whenever a contract went to the person who would do the job rather than to the "lowest bidder".

[Mojorabbit]

18. Even so I wondered about this

when the stimulus was announced. I have a boatload of friends who used to make good money doing construction but haven't for years as they can't compete with the wages undocumented workers will take.
I think some controls need to be put in place.

[NNN0LHI]

23. Did your boatload of friends belong to a union?

Or were they out there taking a lower wage than some other American citizens wouldn't take to get work?

Don

[KittyWampus]

27. I know LOTS of guys around here who are nail-bangers/artists who've had jobs taken by low wage

scabs coming from Southern Hemisphere.

And gardener/landscapers and house-painters and house-cleaners too.

And no, there's no union for landscapers and guys who own their own nail-banging businesses don't belong to unions.

BTW, the people being impacted by low wage undocumented workers now aren't just "white" Americans. It's also the Colombians and Costa Ricans who've been here for 10 years. They're getting screwed over too.

[NNN0LHI]

31. guys who own their own nail-banging businesses don't belong to unions

Up here they do. My father in-law eventually bought the home construction company he worked for and he still had to belong to the union because he worked on the job site. He had about 10 guys working for him.

I think it works better that way.

Don

[Mojorabbit]

34. Union? Are you kidding? This is Florida.

Day labor is used at a much cheaper rate. These are people who used to make a decent living but can't compete with undocumented labor.

[Tex-Slim]

26. I had a buddy who fancied himself a painter...

He insisted he was so good (I've seen his work... guess what!) that he would not work for less than $20 an hour and, wouldn't you know it, he charged for commute time to work, about the hour or hour and a half he spent "getting set up" each day, the time he actually spent painting, the hour or so he spent "cleaning up" at the end of the day... and did I mention he rarely worked more than 4 hours on any given day? Oddly enough, companies still hired him for a time even though they had a ready supply of illegal aliens who would work for $10 an hour. He was a pretty good salesman, it seems, who thought (and often proved) he could talk most anyone into anything.

But, oddly enough, each company that hired him would eventually go out of business... until finally there were none left who would hire him any more. Interestingly enough, one or two that tried him briefly then decided, amazingly enough, not to use him did recommend him... to their competitors... who were the ones that went under...

When you say, "I think some controls need to be put in place", what, exactly, do you mean? Immigration laws? Laws barring employers from hiring illegals?

Those laws exist. They're just not enforced. How can they be when we have a president who's aunt is an illegal alien, living off our taxes in conditions better than my painter buddy?

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

4. If they're worked up over it

then maybe they should go after companies that hire and exploit immigrant labor.

[NNN0LHI]

6. "Studies by two conservative think tanks" kind of says it all doesn't it?

The words conservative and think just don't look right next to each other.

Got to be union to work construction around where I live. There is no problem with undocumented workers on any of these job sites.

If people are wiling to scab jobs by resisting unionizing somewhere else it wouldn't surprise me if others would offer to scab the same job a little cheaper though.

These "think" tanks can never seem to be able to figure that out though.

Don

[madokie]

8. I'll be on the lookout for our don't have a job themselves citizens

Just last week the feds busted a construction company building a big assed motel down the road a piece. Son was working nearby and said all of a sudden here is all these guys come running out across the field away from their work site like ants on a mission. Looks up and see's the red lights flashing and then it dawned on him what the hell just happened. I'm a construction worker and it pisses me off to see illegal laborers doing the work my bud's aren't getting to do because they demand a living wage and the owners of the constructions companies don't want to pay them so they go fishing for the low wage earner. I say we go after the owners for breaking the laws not the workers themselves.

[old mark]

10. Maybe they could then become US citizens,

like my grandmother and my dad did.....

mark

[NNN0LHI]

11. And unionized too

Thats my hope.

Don

[YOY]

12. But...they're brown!!!!

:sarcasm:

[TahitiNut]

15. So are American citizens. Black, too. And yellow and red and white.

So what?

[YOY]

16. C'mon TN. I put in the sarcasm thing.

I'm harping on Republicans stoking up fear of anything that isn't lily white and holding a particular version of the Bible..

[Common Sense Party]

22. Most I've met have no desire or intention of staying here.

They want to make as much as they can so they can return home and live comfortably.

[TwilightGardener]

14. It's going to get ugly--Mexicans understandably won't want to go back home,

because Mexico is going down the crapper--what is there for them now? But American citizens have (or should have) first dibs on those jobs. The burden will be on employers to ensure that all their workers are citizens, or they should lose taxpayer funding or have the contract pulled.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Lost in CT]

25. Why not FEMA hired illegals over Union workers when it came to New Orleans

Gotta keep wages low and thats what the illegals are for.

Honestly I think the 15% number might be low itself.

If we want Union Jobs and living wages and Universal Healhcare we CANNOT HAVE illegal Immigrants...

It's pretty simple...

[Marrah_G]

29. More RW propaganda

But, there has to be a better way to screen people so that these questions can be put to rest.