12000 troops out of Iraq by September is pathetic

[bigtree]

. . . but it's all we've got.

I guess we should be happy.


from Reuters: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-cuts-troop-numbers-in-iraq-by-two-brigades-1640297.html

The United States will reduce the number of combat brigades in Iraq from 14 to 12 , totalling about 12,000 troops, in the next six months, the US military said, a step in President Barack Obama's plan to end combat operations by August, 2010.

"Two brigade combat teams who were scheduled to redeploy in the next six months, along with enabling forces such as logistics, engineers and intelligence, will not be replaced," a statement said. That would cut the number of American troops to approximately 128,000.

Last month, the President ordered 17,000 extra troops to Afghanistan . . .

[elleng]

1. How about, 'Thank you, Mr. President.'

.

[bigtree]

2. It's much less than I expected.

I'm not in any mood to thank anyone for that.

[liberalmuse]

3. It's really easy to criticize.

Especially when we have no idea of the enormity President Obama is facing right now. I like to think about that before I start posting shit, or jumping on some stupid article that is posted over and over proving that President Obama is "continuing Bush policies in such-and-such". Especially before I have more sources of info since it's only been two months and the odds are, he probably hasn't been able to deal with the five thousand items of such-and-such waiting in the queue in depth because of the five hundred urgent items on his plate right now.

[bigtree]

5. what a crock

This exit is dragging on because the Bush holdovers he's got managing it can't let go of their Iraq prize.

[TheWraith]

17. Okay, why don't you regale us with your military supply chain expertise.

I mean obviously you're smarting than all of the US military, in that you can figure out a way to execute a fighting withdrawal of 150,000 people, plus hundreds of thousands of pieces of equipment, bases, ammo dumps, vehicles, etcetera, from a hostile country in less than 18 months, without leaving ANYTHING behind, or exposing anyone to danger.

:eyes:

[Bandit]

28. Then why did such a Smart man as Obama say he was going to do it?

12,000 troop withdrawal doesn't even get us back down to pre surge levels.He said during his campaign he would bring home one brigade a month and have all combat troops out in sixteen months. September will be nine of those sixteen months and not even down to pre surge levels. I have to say I am very dissappointed..I had much higher hopes but Obama is after all just another politician..

[TheWraith]

43. Well, that was a long honeymoon. Some people can't wait to trash Obama.

God forbid that anyone actually listen to what he talked about, which was that ROUGHLY one brigade a month was a good TARGET.

But you're not really interested in facts--it seems pretty clear that your point was to have an excuse to beat your chest over what a disappointment Obama is because it'll take 19 months instead of 16. :eye:

[bigtree]

30. there are PLENTY of military folks (active and retired) who advocated and outlined a quicker exit

It's not surprising to see the foot-dragging when the folks Obama's been listening to are the same Bush holdovers who worked to keep us bogged down there (as with Gates, he pulled the foot-dragging crap during Bush's term, when military advisers counseled a reduction in force and he shot them down).

Another crock of shit . . . demanding that I craft an exit strategy or shut up. You fucking people are unbelievable. You wouldn't take this from Bush. But, you throw this crap in my face just to defend Obama. Where were you during the Bush term? Were you calling for a longer stay when he was in office?

[elleng]

7. You say its 'easy', and

I don't understand HOW PEOPLE HAVE THE NERVE to criticize at this point!

[bigtree]

8. the brain, the heart

the nerve

[flvegan]

4. 10%?

It's what I suppose one would call "a start"? Or something. At that rate, we'll be out in 5 years. Woo hoo. :eyes:

[bigtree]

6. don't forget to thank the president - he's got a lot on his plate

:eyes:

[flvegan]

9. While I agree with others that he does have a platter of crap to deal with

we ARE illegally occupying a nation and we need to leave in a..."more expeditious" manner, IMO.

[bigtree]

10. of course he's got a platter of crap

. . . but his decision to linger is a reflection of the generals he's 'listening to'.

[elleng]

13. I think you're vastly underestimating President Obama's desires

and intentions, and wisdom.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

25. I think

that we need to be the hell out of that country YESTERDAY.

It is insane.

His wisdom is being dictated by people left by the Bush administration.

Get the bloody hell out of that place now.

I am very happy that Obama is the president. I am not happy about the situation in Iraq.

[bigtree]

29. no, I'm not at all

And, I think you are too caught up in defending Obama to recognize that there can be legitimate differences of opinion about how he's proceeding with his promise to withdrawal. I think it's just nonsense to suggest that he somehow has a lock on the wisdom of effecting such a withdrawal.

Barack Obama has always projected and verbalized a more conservative military stance than I would espouse. I suspect that he'll always fall short of my wishes in that regard, as do many other Democrats who have accepted and adopted rhetoric and policy that I opposed from the last administration. My opposition to Pres. Obama's foot-dragging exit from Iraq is well (and legitimately) in line with the positions I've held since the beginning of Bush's militarism abroad.

But, you go ahead . . . tell me more about how much I should stop worrying and love Obama's Iraq policy . . .

[elleng]

46. You are assuming A LOT.

And you do know the effect of ASSUME, right?

For one thing, I did not support Senator Obama for President. I supported another who clearly has a superior foreign policy and military perspective than any around, and I've been in a minority ever since; I damned well know there are legitimate differences of opinion about ALL the issues.

Given that, I've been pleased to observe the President's apparent studied way of making decisions.

[bigtree]

48. then you should recognize that he's operating from a more conservative view

. . . than some of us who voted for him. I'd think you'd understand how his decision falls short of those expectations.

[lmn84]

40. Well, he could do nothing

Seriously. Why are we whining because they won't be out immediately? At least he's doing something, which is better than nothing. And sorry, Iraq takes a back seat to the economic problems this country is facing. If you paid attention during the election, you'd know that towards the end as the economy spiraled further out of control he said that a lot of his ideas and promises would have to wait until things were under control again.

[elleng]

47. Right.

Thanks.

[elleng]

11. Aside from whatever politics are involved,

it takes a LONG TIME to 'leave' such places.

There are specialists in the Army, forget what they're called, who plan such exercises. Its not just personnel, but its all their 'stuff' that has to be planned for, and none of this can be done willy-nilly.

[flvegan]

15. During his campaign, he pledged to be out in 16 months.

[TheWraith]

18. No, he said that 16 months was a good preliminary plan.

He also said that he wasn't going to write checks his ass couldn't cash.

[flvegan]

21. Interesting

“I said that I would remove our combat troops from Iraq in 16 months, with the understanding that it might be necessary — likely to be necessary — to maintain a residual force to provide potential training, logistical support, to protect our civilians in Iraq.”

Want to guess who said that?

[Winterblues]

33. How long did it take Bush1 to leave after the Gulf war?

Why is there such a big difference in time frame?

[TheWraith]

42. We never occupied Iraq after the Gulf War.

We basically just turned the tanks around and drove back to the border. No bases, no installations, no shipments of goods and supplies, no ammo dumps, no airfields, no checkpoints, nothing. Completely different scenario.

[mike_c]

36. it's callled a stategic withdrawal, AKA a retreat...

...and it typically happens pretty quickly. It can be done in an orderly manner without taking YEARS. Since there is no strategic objective to achieve, the U.S. should be completely out of Iraq in three months rather than three years.

[unkachuck]

12. it doesn't.....

....sound like much of a troop withdrawal to me....could it be because it isn't?....maybe the Iraq war is starting to grow on Obama....maybe he's beginning to like unprovoked repug invasions....

....our anti-Iraq-war presidential candidate and president might be protecting and defending the United States and the American people from the hordes of hostile Iraqis and their huge global war-machine, but I doubt it....

....maybe Obama doesn't want 130000 unemployed troops over here standing in unemployment lines?....it would look bad....better to keep them roaming around Bagdad on borrowed money....

[TheWraith]

19. Oh please. Peddle that crap somewhere else.

If you're going to just make shit up out of thin air, don't expect not to be called on it.

[G_j]

14. 17,000 to Afghanistan

sounds like more troops at war, not less..

[BuyingThyme]

16. Kay and are.

[leftstreet]

20. K&R

[FrenchieCat]

22. Ever thought that this is how it starts, and then it escalates from there??

That's perhaps the only way that it can happen, which is why it is being called a step. So they start preparing....and they start withdrawing in earnest in September 12,000.....then in October, they withdraw another 2 brigades, and so forth and so on.

Why be so simplistic in your thinking? Because it makes President Obama look bad? Most likely that's why...sadly. :(

[ConcernedCanuk]

23. USA is hanging around just to save face - they should run out with their tail 'tween their legs

.
.
.

What they can't carry

just leave it behind and get the fuck out of Iraq

USA has no right to be there in the first place

So to heck with the "logistics" argument

just get the fuck out

take your losses

[Skittles]

24. it's a start

[QueenOfCalifornia]

26. Dear bigtree

K&R.

[northernlights]

27. serious drawdown *after* next Iraq elections

This was explained a couple weeks ago, when the decision for a 19 month drawdown was announced.

They're leaving the numbers high until after the next Iraq elections in December. Then the real drawdown begins.

[NNN0LHI]

31. What happened to the 1 or 2 brigades per month deal?

Who is running this show?

Don

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. "Peace with Honor"? "The light at the end of the tunnel"? "I have a plan"?

Again?

[Iggo]

34. Times 10, Mr President. (n/t)

[mike_c]

35. it's utterly, utterly, LAME....

Obama is a war criminal now, just like his predecessor. I hope to see them both before judges in the Hague some day.

[NeedleCast]

37. Isn't this pretty much EXACTLY what he outlined doing just a few days ago?

A reduction to 50,000 troops by the middle of 2010 and a reduction to zero (or near zero) by December 2011?

I've pretty much expected all along that the draw-down would be gradual and likely back-stacked (troop withdrawls increase in size/frequency the closer to the dates that have been set)?

[mike_c]

38. perhaps that's the responsible way to wind down a war...

...but the war against Iraq is a CRIME. We usually insist that criminals stop committing crimes cold-turkey.

[acmavm]

39. Yeah, amazing ain't it? Only 128,000 to go.

[taught_me_patience]

41. This is pathetic

and we have a duty to call the president out on this. We Democrates should not be like Republobots and just blindly follow the president. Obama has done good and bad things in the first 100 days and this is one of the bad.

[blues90]

44. From what I'm getting from many of these responses

Is that many here have this idea stuck in their head that Obama is the one and only doing all this work by himself and he has so much on his plate. Well if that's really the case then what does he need all of the people in his cabinet for.

He has lots of help to do this faster.

I would even imagine that a lot of the equipment could or should remain there for the elected Iraqis and their trained by the uS military to us because after all there is still fighting going on there and will be after we leave and we may be told 35 to 50,000 troops will remain there to continue to provide training and support . Whether or not the US troops left there will be not in combate is debatable , no one knoes this with any certainty.

[elleng]

45. And of course the questions of how to deal with the equipment

are among those on the list of those soldiers with the job of figuring this out. (Wish I could remember what they're called.)