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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:06 PM
Original message
My neighbor down the street had a nervous breakdown over Obama's win, left his wife and moved to
Edited on Thu Mar-05-09 07:37 PM by EmilyAnne
Florida.

When I moved to Pittsburgh from Austin three years ago, I walked around the neighborhood and couldn't help but notice the political bumper stickers I passed.
I sized up my particular area as a Democratic stronghold and it turned out to be true in our last presidential election.

One of my neighbors had three Kerry/ Edwards stickers and I eventually got to know him and his wife and their two dogs.
He was a Vietnam Vet who went on to be a mail carrier and had recently retired.

During the primaries, he had a Hillary sign in the yard.
After Obama won, an "I'm a bitter gun owner and I vote" sign was placed next to it. That sign was produced by the NRA, by the way.

Well, apparently, he has completely lost it since Obama won. According to his wife, he would listen to nothing but Hannity, Beck, Savage and Limbaugh. He stopped leaving the house or walking their dogs. He bought more guns and more ammunition. He had extreme insomnia and would sometimes pace around the attic all night long, then stay up all day, delirious but unable to sleep.
I hadn''t seen him for a couple months, but didn't think too much of it.
His wife's suggestions that he get some help made him extremely angry. Her suggestions became demands, then finally an ultimatum.
He chose to leave rather than see a doctor and moved in with his elderly mother in Florida two weeks ago.

He is convinced that there is going to be a Civil War soon between white conservatives and black and white liberals/ socialists.

He was a nice guy.
He was always in his yard come springtime and his flower garden was always the most beautiful on our street. I was looking forward to it this year after such a long winter.
When I rescued my dog from a puppy mill, he gave me invaluable advice on training because she had a lot of behavior problems.
When there was a summertime crime wave on our street, he organized a watch group. It was then that I realized that he was a pretty fearful guy who owned a lot of guns. Still, that was his right and a years before I moved here, someone a few houses down had been shot by an intruder who was never caught. So, I could understand his fear of crime.

It was my suspicion that he went from being a Hillary supporter to a passionate Obamaphobe because he was racist.
When I mentioned it to a good friend, she called me out, saying that when a black neighbor was dying of cancer, no one was as kind and helpful as this guy.
When things had gotten so bad toward the end of her life, it was this neighbor who could be seen carrying her out to his car to take her on errands and to the hospital.

He was very scarred by his experiences in the Vietnamese jungles.
One recent afternoon he was raking leaves in his yard. I felt a bit of tension as I approached since the Obama signs went up in my yard, he had stopped saying hello on my almost daily walks past his house.
I wanted to break the ice and said hello, trying very hard to ignore the NRA sign that was right next to a leaf pile he was working on.
I then asked him about the POW cap he was wearing, mentioning that my father was a B52 pilot in Vietnam.

He talked about the men he served with, the closeness they had, that there was nothing else like the bond they shared while in Vietnam.
He seemed nostalgic, not for the war but for the kind of camaraderie shared by people who had been put in an extremely dangerous situation.
I told him that when my father came to visit, I would introduce him.
Then, he thanked me for asking about it, which was weird. * I mean that it was weird that he would be so grateful about someone acknowledging his POW cap, something that should be a simple, respectful gesture. Not that he was weird, but that people who ignore such things are weird.*

That was the last time I talked to him.

Hearing about some anonymous person with such ridiculous beliefs about Obama, socialists and impending race wars, my first thoughts are that the person must be a blithering idiot, selfish, racist and full of hate. I guess its sometimes true. Still, there are a lot of vulnerable people who are being manipulated by the media.

This former neighbor is the kind person who could be victimized by the hate speech of certain RW pundits.
He was screwed by his country once before in a war that is now the single defining experience in his life.
Of course he is naturally fearful, ready to believe in all kinds of conspiracies.
Of course he is prone to feeling marginalized considering that his return from Vietnam was so inglorious. People didn't want to talk about it. No one but another vet understood what he went through, nor did they care to. They wanted to move on.

So, now we have these right wing purveyors of misery who appeal to people who feel screwed by the government, who feel naturally fearful, who believe in elaborate conspiracies, who feel marginalized, who feel misunderstood.
How do they do it?
They tell them that they are, indeed, being screwed by the government, they should be very afraid, there are elaborate conspiracies afoot, that they are marginalized (as Rush calls it "in exile") and misunderstood (like Rush says, the liberals won't acknowledge that we conservatives are the ones who LOVE people).

Do these messages of fear and doom and paranoia make people like my former neighbor feel content?
Are the victims of this RW bilge happy to hear that their worst fears have allegedly been confirmed?
Did my neighbor think to himself, "Yes! I knew it! It feels so good to be right about this stuff and to know the truth. Since we've been taken over by socialists there is nothing I can do but get back to my simple, happy life tending my garden and walking my dogs."

Hell no.
There is nothing proactive, useful, inspiring or comforting in their words.
They want people to live in despair and hopelessness.

Its the worst kind of hate speech because while the Limbuaghs and Hannitys promote hatred of liberals, they seem to also hate their audience.
Why else would they go to such lengths to make them feel powerless and miserable?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. So sad. imo it's about fear - on all parts, the leaders and the followers.
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GentryDixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. It is about ignorance.
The sheep who follow the herd do so because they cannot think for themselves.

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Ignorance alone doesn't motivate - it's the fear that makes them hate, and act on it.
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WillieW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Ditto
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. But what I don't get is, what exactly is Limbaugh etc afraid of? Having to pay a whole bunch of
taxes?
These talking heads seem like idiots, but do they really believe in all the extreme stuff about a socialist takeover?
Did Sarah Palin really believe that Obama was palling around with terrorists?
I don't think so.
I think they use this rhetoric to whip people up, to scare them into supporting an agenda that is most likely against their better financial interests.

How else can people like Joe the Plumber who makes 40,000 a year be made to vote for a party that promises to cut taxes for the wealthy and for corporations. There has to be something extra to pull them in. Something purely irrational and emotional that blinds them to the realities of the conservative economic agenda.

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. They're afraid of CHANGE - a country where the white man is no longer...
...the king of the hill just by virtue of his color; where women make as much money and have as much clout as their husbands; where "exotic" people and "exotic" cultures are no longer made fun of but respected and valued. Where the status quo is disrupted and they are no longer assured of their comfortable place in their little world. The fear is totally irrational and emotional.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #32
47. Great post. nt
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
72. Amen. Great post. This story might have ended with the wife shot after a-
another ultimatum for the guy to get help. So sad.
Limbaugh, Savage and the other wing nut hate mongers have a special hot place in Hell they will be
seated... at a microphone that doesn't work. (Protest tax money spent to broadcast Limbaugh on armed forces radio!)
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #72
106. Yeah I wonder how many stories did end in that way?
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
93. I agree wholeheartedly
I have said a few times that conservatives are typically people who remember (or in the case of younger conservatives) have been told about a time when "life was much more simple and better". It is pretty deep rooted into our psyche to re-write history into a much better time than it was. In the case of the White man things were easier before the 1960's. You could make racist comments with impunity. You were expected to show your "natural" dominance by treating women as objects. The White man was the master of the universe, subject to no authority but his own. That is the conservative movement in a nutshell.
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drmeow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
97. I disagree that the fear is irrational
What they fear is loss of power. The change you describe is the change that equalizes power relationships. Given the way power is misused in this world and what tends to happen when there is a change in power, it is not irrational to fear the loss of power.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #26
59. what exactly is Limbaugh etc afraid of?
Not being the center of attention....and not being able to afford pain pills and illegal Cuban cigars. Period.
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
104. I would love to know the answers to your questions
Some of my daughter's classmates tell her that global warming isn't real and is due to the earth spinning faster. (I know, there's a certain logical inconsistency in their position.) They seem to feel pretty passionately about this because they harass her about it all the time. Why would a bunch of 10-year-olds care about debunking the "myth" of global warming? How do the Republicans manage to get kids to care more about saying global warming isn't true than about, say, puppies needing homes, or children going hungry at night?
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. It could also be a clinical problem.
Hopefully he sees a doctor in Florida.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Yes, that behavior changes sounds like a possible clinical problem.
Anecdotally, a relative and a friend of mine started behaving that way about a year or two before they were diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease. In both cases, the behavior change was first slight and then became more and more pronounced.

They got into black and white thinking, us versus them, paranoia, etc. And they listened to even more Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc.

Perhaps as their brain function capabilities lessened, they like simple answers and as they became more fearful and confused, they wanted to "stand up for their rights"!

Personally, I think there's something to this but I realize that formal research would need to be done.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Second this, also based on personal anecdotal evidence. nt
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. This describes my late father-in-law. He was always a conservative, but suddenly his rants became
more and more extreme. I sweat to god he gave his three year old grandson a copy of O'Reilly For Kids for Christmas. Brother-in-law trashed it, by the way.
He was angrier and angrier, flew off the handle and was literally unable to speak whenever any of his political beliefs were questioned.

Perfect example: Someone mentions that they do not agree with the death penalty. His response is that liberals just want to open up the prisons and let every one go. Irrational and paranoid, for sure.
He said that it was wrong for us to vote for Kerry because Kerry was EVIL. Hmm....quite an argument.

Well, it turns out that he had a fatal illness that caused high levels of calcium in the blood. Hypocalcemia causes anxiety, confused thinking, depression and anger. It just exacerbated his already conservative political leanings. He probably knew he was slipping, so he clung even more desperately to simple black and white thinking.

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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #33
55. Oh Emily! Dear God, you are describing
so much of my brother's behavior, it's scary!

This includes the O'Reilly books he gives our 89 year
old mother for Christmas!!

There is no friggin way in hell I can discuss politics
with him. When he sent me tons of emails full
of Obama smearing garbage, I sent him a link to
'Fight the Smears', where they debunked every single
claim against Obama.

He called it "an excuse making website" " his supporters
can't think for themselves"- WTH?

It's really, really sad.

I still love my brother but as you can see there is a big gap
in our relationship.
He is also a Vietnam Vet.



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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #55
121. My brother too. What is in the trigger of hate radio/TV/Christian Broadcasting?
We haven't spoken since Clinton was president. He got all wrapped up in the talk radio - talk tv - Christian broadcasting garbage demonizing Bill and Hillary Clinton. Ken Starr was a hero to him. I was an evil, liberal and sinning, working mother raising my son alone. I should have been under a man's thumb, and not be in any job where I had any decision-making responsibilites.

My brother was once one of the funniest, easy going, critical thinking, happy-go-lucky liberal guy you could meet. He was wounded twice in Nam, nearly killing him. His body is scared from bullets all the way from his ankles to his head. His body is loaded with shrapnel. He is on partial disability.

My brother once voted a straight Democratic ticket, including Jesse Jackson in a primary. (Humphrey in '68, McGovern in '72, Carter in '76 & '80, Mondale in '84, Dukakis in '88, and Clinton in '92.) Then in the 90s, with the advent of Newt Gingrich's 'Contract with America' and the insurgence of bitter talk radio and talk TV (so-called cable news) he changed drastically.

The likes of Limbaugh and Hagee became his source of information. For my own and my son's sake we had to part ways. The terrible and nasty things he said to me are forgivable (to me, my son has no interest), but he is still deeply wrapped in the bloated hate mongering rhetoric and I'm afraid he will be until his dying day. We live in different States, our paths never cross anymore. He no longer considers us family - my belief system is flawed to him and says I must be punished - whatever that means; and it scares me.

My brother went from a giving and hard working family man, home owner and productive citizen to a man who blames others for all the things he perceives is wrong in this world. While he preaches the words of the GOP and Christian Broadcasting, and their family values, my brother does not live by their words and sees no conflict in his steady visits to strip clubs and taking prostitutes home with him, his foul mouth, and prejudices.

What took this strong and free-thinking Democrat to the extreme dark side? What is in the trigger of hate radio/TV/Christian Broadcasting that set him off? He is healthy, sans range of motion difficulties. His blood-work is good. Three times over the last 12 years, 3 different employers have sent him to EAP and paid for private counseling who found him mentally healthy.

Personally, I think there is something terribly wrong - yet he has said the same about my beliefs. I also wonder if it's addictive. Is he addicted to right-wing hate? If so, then that is NOT mentally healthy. My mother and one of my sisters raged bitter and disastrous battles with alcohol.

I don't know. It's a very painful subject for me. When you love someone with all your heart, yet it's not emotionally safe, and maybe not even physically safe to be near a sibling - what can you do?

I'm a firm believer in our Constitution, and of course the First Amendment, but there is something dangerous, unethical and evil permeating our airways. These over-paid, extremist fat-cats on the air are irresponsible citizens. May they rot in hell.

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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #121
125. Dmr, I hear you!
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 11:15 AM by Kajsa
it is so frigging SAD to watch our brothers fall into that cesspool of
thinking.

You nailed it right here,

" addicted to right-wing hate?"

I believe they are, for there is no reasoning with my brother.
When confronted with the illogic of his extreme RW mantra,
he dismisses other views as "nonsense", "baloney",
" why don't you grow up and stop being a "hippy"?"

Excuse me, I share many views with Senator Ted Kennedy.
Is he a " hippy that needs to grow up", too?
Their "reasoning" is anything but that- it's ridiculous.

It IS scary and heartbreaking to watch, Dmr.

You are not alone.

:hug:


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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
60. They got into black and white thinking, us versus them, paranoia, etc.
Well, the Commies are not there anymore to fear (though the GOP is trying hard with the Socialism doo-doo) and they can't even find al Qaeda, so let's make an enemy out of our neighbors! Ahhhhh....there....someone easily identified you can hate and blame everything on! And there RIGHT OVER THERE! Be afraid!
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
92. I noticed some changes with my dad with alzheimers and increased homophobia...
I'd always known him earlier to be a very sensible and rational man, and though he wasn't strident about gay people's rights, he certainly didn't voice much against them at all.

But as his alzheimers progressed, one time we had some discussions about gay people, and he really started saying some very hateful things about them, that I'd not heard from him before. I think he was reflecting on a very bad experience he'd gone through as a young man in the Navy related to that, which probably was a memory that was still with him when others were disappearing. Seeing him act that way was sad, and also sad that I'd not seen fit to talk to him more about that situation when he was still a rational person earlier. I hadn't known about it when I was younger, and we'd avoided talking about it later even when he was still a more rational person.

So yes, as people deteriorate with aging, it is quite possible to see some radical changes in their personality as their memory faculties go.
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Swagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
122. sounds clinical-any event-good or bad can set it off
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 07:29 PM by Swagman
you don't just have a breakdown because of one event...just one too many. A friend of mine had his breakdown at a surprise birthday party for him..the sight of so many people actually caring about him sent him into a major decline -like some sort of overdose of emotions.

### but who needs those nasty shock jocks..breeding bitterness. A pox on them.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's really sad about your
neighbor..we can imagine how many others out there are affected by hate radio in such a way. Some people aren't as strong as others and need encouragment and support..not some radio brainwashing system that turns them into zombies.

This is one reason why I'm so glad Obama called out limbaugh weeks ago and that he's been exposed on a national level for what he is.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Then, he thanked me for asking about it, which was weird."
No, it's not.

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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Thank You
:loveya:
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. You're right. Poorly worded and not exactly what I meant. I mean that it made me think that he
felt that most people, especially people in their 20s, aren't interested in talking about it or noticing his POW cap. And that, to me, was weird and sad. That he felt that it was something that he should be grateful about because it doesn't happen very often. Does that make sense. I will change that wording because I don't mean to disparage his feelings about how he is acknowledged as a POW.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sounds like he might be suffering from a bit of PTSD.
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have had the same experience with a Vietnam Vet
Such a lovely and gentle man, now suicidal about Obama. Yes, these are the ones Rush riles up. He's calling them to arms and it is ugly.

sigh
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. That's hilarious.
:thumbsup:
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'd Say the Wife Was Damn Lucky
Edited on Thu Mar-05-09 07:25 PM by Demeter
Too many murder-suicides in this country.

Also: Any vet who confuses a tall lanky black man with the Viet Cong has a serious problem.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. Me too. I am wondering if he will end up moving back. I have to admit that I would be scared if he
did.
He needs help in a major way.
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Any number of "triggers" can set off mentally ill repukes
You can pretty much assume something is mentally wrong just by the (R) next to their name. I'm not kidding either.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. He moved to Florida.. it figures.....
..just what Florida needs.. another senior citizen NIMBY (not in my back yard) right wing asshole.

These people will not fund schools, or roads or improvements..because they are retired from ( ) fill in name of State.

I don't blame them.. I don't want to fund that stuff either. I'm tired of FLroida Politicians (like Jeb Bush) who live in gold plated surroundings while the workers struggle to pay the taxes they have imposed.


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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. I hope he doesn't see my bumper stickers
here in Orlando - 2 pro-Obama moveon stickers, and 1 anti-war (Quaker/Friends) bumper sticker.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
79. *Sigh* They always come to Florida
Don't ask me why. We have all the wingnuts we can stand in this frackin' state.

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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
82. I hate to say it, but my first thought as a Floridian was...
"Just great. My UU church so needs an incident like Knoxville."

Very uncharitable of me. I hope this man gets the mental help he obviously needs.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. Great post and very well written. nt
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Sukie Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. That is such a sad and depressing story.
I hope he gets the help he needs. I would hate for an inherently good person to suffer this way. Your post was wonderfully portrayed. Thank you.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. Is he religious? There is a big drive to convince people that Obama is the anti-Christ.
Edited on Thu Mar-05-09 07:29 PM by FedUpWithIt All
It sounds crazy to people here but a lot of people REALLY believe whatever they are told on Sunday morning. Take some fundy manipulation stir in a little PTSD...:nuke:


I hope your neighbor gets to a healthier place.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. I have known some of the fundies that you are talking about. This guy was definitely not one,
though I am sure he could still be made to believe that Obama is the anti-christ.

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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
87. I AM THE ANTI-CHRIST
I've posted that so many times it came up automatically in the Subject window.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. well...... at least we know the rebirth of our world is coming soon I guess.
you're not lying are you?
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. How sad that regular-type people can be whipped up by hateful words.
Just like Hitler did to the people of Germany.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I'm sure that he struggled through the years with psychological problems. Still, you're right.
Regular-type people often have psychological problems. These people are vulnerable to hate speech.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. Don't worry about him. He moved in down the street.
Worry about me. I don't know how much more of these nuts I can take.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. "there are a lot of vulnerable people who are being manipulated by the media",
I think you nailed it right here.

There are two guys in my family that are Vietnam Vets, one went into the Army (one of our "black sheep") and the other was a Marine (marginally acceptable, we're Navy godammit), I have another in-law (sort of) that is another Army Vietnam Vet, and they are all walking wounded, barely functional societally. They all display the usual symptoms and they all resist any attempts to seek, or even discuss, getting any help.

All of them seem to be especially sensitive to media influence and survive, as they do, by avoiding it all together. Now, I am considered pretty close to the edge of the spectrum (extreme) and even I see that there is a lot going on in their heads that they, and the rest of the world, would be better off without. These guys have seen and done shit that most of us really cannot comprehend (those of you that can know what I'm talking about) and somehow it has left them completely open to any crap that our corporate masters see fit to dump into them.

This is one reason that it is so very important for the rest of us to reign in these moguls and establish some sort of code of conduct for their operations, or better yet, break up their empires so that, at least, multiple views are presented.

We haven't yet seen the full effects of the damage they do.
:kick: & R

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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. Try telling your, 'I'm everybody's President" Obama that.
Don't get me wrong. I understand bipartisanship is a key component of his strategy and it seems to be working to some extent. But one can't ignore appointments declined (from more pubs than dems), and obstruction from the party of 'no.'
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. That's funny, because all I've noticed is a lot republic appointments and policies,
but no republic votes.

Seems he would have exactly the same results if he was totally partisan and moving us more quickly in the right direction, not to mention that what's been done would have a better chance of success.

Tell the banks and their stockholders to go Cheney themselves and pour that money directly into the people that will make the difference.


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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
25. A most wonderful post...
A most wonderful post. Most wonderful. :)


Your neighbor is one reason why I will am compelled to view everyone on their own merits, to refuse any visceral desire I may have to place an (R) or a (D) in front of any one person's name in my social and professional worlds. Were I to engage in one and only one myopic perspective of people based on politics, I'd be guilty of the same offense that frustrates me so much when I see others do it.

Having said that, watching friends and family slowly descend into the madness and seduction of Hate Radio is very much like watching an alcoholic take his very first drink.
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tanngrisnir3 Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. It's not the broadcast media's job or responsibility to make him feel content.
The guy sounds like an extreme outlier, statistically, and it also sounds like there was more going on than just radio shows to bring him to that point.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I agree with you. Obviously, there was a lot going on with this guy that I have no clue about.
I am not talking about contentedness being the responsibility of the broadcast media.
I'm talking about a political philosophy espoused by certain in the media. Its a philosophy that is, at this point, only accepted by the those who aren't wealthy when irrational fears and suspicions are exploited.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
63. Nor is it the broadcast media's job or responsibility to make him feel...
Nor is it the broadcast media's job or responsibility to make him feel marginalized and victimized...
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. I think there are lots of people..
who are susceptible to snake oil salesman. Sad to hear, nonetheless.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. I too have come across a couple of people that have moved...
(out of the country, in this case) after the election. Not Veterans mind you, but clearly big time conservatives and likely closet racists. One, a nice Australian lady that worked at a cosmetic counter in Nordstroms surprised me. I'd never spoken politics with her, but one of her co-workers told me she'd pulled up stakes to return to Oz immediately after the election, so distressed that Obama had won.

Geez.... Ya just never know, sometimes.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-05-09 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. So I take it he never listens to Jimi Hendrix when he has crazyass Vietnam vet flashbacks
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
39. You know, I felt screwed by the government and discovered Limbaugh
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 06:35 AM by crikkett
but as soon as I realized that he was just looking for things to bitch about (took a few weeks in 1993) I stopped listening.

Something caused your neighbor to snap and yeah, the hate he subjected himself to helped. I wouldn't say the people he subjected himself to hated their audience, I think it's impossible for performers to hate their audience without doing themselves great damage. They're giving their audience what they want. As sick as it is, it's a feedback loop.

PS I know a lot of Republicans who were rooting for HRC this time around.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
40. I am a bitter gun owner, too, but I voted for Obama, and I'm bitter
about the right wingers lack of respect for this country. They are preying on the fears of people whe really don't need the extra stress. They are actually attempting to incite a takeover of the US and they are trying to set up some person who has had a bad life and lives on the edge emotionally to act out in some really stupid and destructive way to create an incident that they think will spark a violent rebellion.
I am reporting what I have read and seen at different sites online recently, and I am convinced that to some degree these people are serious.

There are some very sick bastards on the extreme right, and they have no problem using some unstable people as tools to further their agenda.

mark
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #40
49. This is exactly my fear. Yes, obviously a perfectly well adjusted, mentally healthy person won't
spontaneously lose it after listening to Rush Limbaugh.

The people I worry about are those who struggle are mentally and emotionally vulnerable.

Look at this guy someone posted in the political videos section.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAE_xkFgWw

Scary.
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greenbird Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
41. Your post is full of
compassion. It's so refreshing to read.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
42. Our country is a very sick place. The longer we keep the truth hidden
and allow the extremists on radio and TV spit their venom, the more people will become sick mentally, especially with a growing financial crisis. The Democratic party as of late has become one of history's weakest parties in a period of history where the Republican party has become a dangerous political entity. That's not a healthy combination.
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
43. A pattern?
"He talked about the men he served with, the closeness they had, that there was nothing else like the bond they shared while in Vietnam.

He seemed nostalgic, not for the war but for the kind of camaraderie shared by people who had been put in an extremely dangerous situation."


Military training and experience is like a kind of "cult" experience? The more people who are put through this training...the more there will be who support the over sized US military...and the more the government can depend on this group of people to support more of the same?

For some...previous military experience becomes the "major reality" in their lives....around which they see and judge the rest of the world?

And...it is all intentional training.

So when Obama talks about increasing troop numbers and starting some kind of mandatory "community service" for young people...I see the beginning of the end.

US has the weapons...and will have the people...and once all this is available...somebody's going to use them. Espec with all the negative factors coming our way....regimentation and wars expected?
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
44. Don't rule out racism
Just because you're nice to individual black people doesn't mean you're not a racist.

We often have very different feelings about individual people versus groups of people. I know people who are good friends with gay people, who socialize with them, invite them over for dinner, etc. -- and still voted for Prop H8.

A lot of very racist people have some blacks that they know and are friendly with -- hence the origin of the phrase, "I'm not a racist -- some of my best friends are . . . ."

Heck, Strom Thurmond, die-hard racist with a black daughter.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. Agreed
I personally know people who "have Jewish friends" but have no problem denigrating the entire race when given the opportunity.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. You are both right about that. Who knows just how many problems this guy has.
Racism is just as irrational as all the other bullshit he believes.
Plus, he is waiting on a race war.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #46
62. "have Jewish friends" but have no problem denigrating the entire race
Uh... Judaism isn't a race. There are no "Jewish" genes. It is a choice you make...or rather your parents and Rabbi make for you when you are in the womb (whether you like it or not).

Jewish race....what is this? Nazi Germany?
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. sorry - I misspoke (or rather miss typed)


I got a whole 45 minutes sleep last night. And without caffeine too!

As soon as my client emails a p.o. # to me I'm making an invoice and going to bed.

So, no it's not Nazi Germany.


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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
71. It may have more to do with having a black man as Leader
Helping someone less fortunate than oneself is one thing, certainly he had a good side there. But it may very well have been that having someone of color, who is younger than he is, be his Leader was just too much to contemplate...
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
45. Sounds familiar
My brother did two tours in Nam, 67 - 70 and after 40 years is still extremely troubled. It seems like the war in Iraq really heightened the ptsd that has destroyed his life the last 40 years.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. Ditto for my brother. He soaks up propaganda from Rush DraftDodger Limbaugh
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 09:58 AM by SpiralHawk
and the other Chickenhawk Republicon propagandists like O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity -- none of whom served for even 5 minutes. Yet my brother -- who had to undergo electroshock therapy for his PTSD after 2 tours in Nam -- sucks up everything these clowns say.

He just loved Commander AWOL Bush and VP Dickie 'Five Military Deferments' Cheney and the other Republicon Chickenhawks -- and said they had 'good excuses' for whimping out the way they did. But he HATES John Kerry, who actually served heroically.

So twisted. So sad.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. Good observation...
All that video from Iraq and Afghanistan sets off the nightmares in a lot of people.

Not all nightmares are based in reality. The guys on the video footage are dressed differently, and the geography is different, but the suggestion of combat still sets off a whole bunch of feelings and dark thoughts.

Combat vets can look and see and know how those guys are feeling. And then they identify.

We gotta stop making so many veterans.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
52. How very sad. It sounds like...
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 10:33 AM by Vektor
He was a very vulnerable person, probably with PTSD and some mental instability, but with an underlying rhythm of kindness.

Just the sort of person Rush and his ilk like to chew up and spit out. The RW prey on this sort of person, and it's a real shame. I hope he gets the help he needs.
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
53. He sounds like half the people in DU-GDP
nt
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #53
64. How so? Explain.... if you can. Remember...50% of the people.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #64
75. He's accusing them of being racist Republicans because they supported the current Sec of State
in the primaries.

There couldn't possibly be any other reason to vote for her. Didn't you get the memo? ;)
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #53
110. I don't think so. Hillary had a lot of supporters because of her record. People who hadn't been
following Obama's were quite upset that other Dems who hadn't were really searching for dirt on him, fearful that some unexposed scandal would cost us the general election. I think that very few of the people on DU-GDP were racist. Most of them were probably trolls.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
54. This man needs help...if
he doesn't get sleep, he is going to start hallucinating. The combination of hallucinations and guns is lethal.

There's the 'alpha man' theory which may explain his anger at a Black man becoming President. Taking care of a frail Black woman keeps him snuggly in his 'alpha role.' But now, he has lost that.

There are thousands of guys like him...who just can't believe a Black man is now more powerful than they are. Ain't Patriarchy fun??? All the little hierarchies and dog eat dog competitions. Fun Fun Fun!

Let's blame the Patriarchy for a change.

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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
69. It seems like racism trumped sexism for this guy
Apparently, he was alright with having a woman President, and one who had been smeared as a Communist for 16 years by the Limbaugh crowd to boot. Go figure.

I know a couple conservatives like that, one of whom is a Vietnam vet. The younger fellow has gotten into UFO conspiracy theories of late, and the older guy is moving to Mexico. Strange days, indeed.


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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #69
124. It's funny....I thought it was
his wife who put out the Hilliary sign.

I think I'll just stay here and try to get off the grid.

Strange...to say the least!
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
56. That is sad. One of my best friends is falling into the same trap
He watches Glenn Beck and regularly visits conspiracy theory sites.

The things he has come to believe are downright scary. This is a college educated guy with a family, who believes man - made earthquakes are imminent, and that only those with lots of guns and extra food in the pantry will survive.

When you talk him down, he will agree that he isn't making sense, but a couple of days later he's right back into it.

I don't get it.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. I don't get it.
It's called schizophrenia.
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #65
88. I ran into his wife in the grocery store a few months back
We're good friends, and we chatted for a while. She remarked that her husband had sent her to the store to buy 3 large bags of flour. "Planning on a lot of baking, I see." "No," she replied. "____________ said that he read on his site that there is only a 3 day supply of flour world wide, so he wanted me to stock up."

I had lunch with him a couple of days later, and asked him about it. He assured me that it's absolutely true. I haven't looked it up, but I'm guessing three days is about the normal supply of refined, processed and packaged flour at any time in most communities.

I asked him how much good he thought three bags of flour would do if the world is truly out of flour. At that point, (as always) he seemed to see the light and admitted it sounded a bit silly. But by the weekend, he urged me to cancel my upcoming trip with the San Jose layover because that's right where a huge man-made earthquake was going to strike in the next few days.

Finally, I told him that there was so much to be terrified of that I just can't keep track, so I now actively root for the end of civilization.

I think he took me seriously.
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donquijoterocket Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
90. doom bunker
I hate to diagnose from a distance, but someone who'll be lucid enough at times to be aware they're detached from reality then return to the delusion has some problems. Especially if he a Beck believer don't show him this masterful Colbert putdown/takedown:http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2009/03/stephen_col. I don't suppose you've asked who it is will be causing these earthquakes and just how?There is absolutely no telling what will unhinge even the most stable seeming people.The steady diet of divisive talk from the bowels of lower wingnutistan sure doesn't help.
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. I've asked him about the mechanics of causing a man-made quake
At that point, he always seems to come around and realize how crazy it sounds. I think he's terribly worried about his job and family (who isn't these days?), and he's a cyber commuter, so he's in front of a computer all day. His free time gets absorbed by these conspiracy sites. I think anyone who spends a lot of time there without a lot of daily person-to-person contact (as is the nature of his job) is vulnerable to getting eaten up by that stuff.

It's not a lot different than the people I'm sure we all know who get all their opinion and "news" from Fox/Beck/Hannity/O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Liddy, etc. and nowhere else. Eventually, no other source of information or commentary can be trusted, and these guys are nothing but correct. When that happens, you can start believing some crazy %$#@.

In a nutshell, yes, I agree...he has problems.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
57. Nice racists
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 11:36 AM by AlbertCat
So he helped a dying black woman to her car. My father was a surgeon. He worked the EM a lot. He saved many a black person's life there....checking up on them for months sometimes to ensure their recovery.

Then he'd come home and tell us kids "Niggers always shoot each other, but spics will knife each other."

But Daddy was no racists, because he helped blacks, and just love Evelina, the maid, and Raymond the black man who drove my mother and her bridge group around.

Right? right?
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
58. All while Hannity, Rush, Beck, et al smile all the way to the bank
clearly Hannity, Rush, Beck and others all have their own sociopathic problems in that they cheerily make a very comfortable living.
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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
61. fear
thanks for sharing this. I was a bit befuddled when my friend in Florida confided in me that against her husband's wishes, she was voting for Obama. She was very very afraid, not of her husband, but of the things he believed might happen to the country if Obama was elected. Her husband clearly spends too much time listening to radio and fortunately the brainwashing didn't QUITE take on my friend. She's not so frightened now that she's had a chance to experience Obama as her president. We need to un-brainwash A LOT of people. I think the vilifying of the vile (Limpdick) is just what they need!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
66. How does someone support Hillary and then the right?
Never made sense, even when the Repukes tried it with Palin.

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BobRossi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. There's a difference.
Coulda' fooled me.
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BobRossi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Postal is as Postal does.
Rest assured he will be in the news one day.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. This story reminds me of the shrill "testimonials" ...
...we were bombarded with during the primaries
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
68. Mark one more death up to the rw talking heads. They have got to
be stopped. Someone should tally all the cases that connect these idiot talkers and violence and send it to the FCC. Inciting someone to violence (even against themselves) should be taken seriously. Given the memos that are coming out of Justice coupled with the hate talk it is a miracle we are not hip deep in Orwell's 1984.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
76. You described my uncle
He didn't serve overseas, but he lived in Southern California as a child and learned to hate all minorities.
He owns a small business and feels like he can never get ahead (doesn't feel his privilege).
There has to be someone to blame.
Someone with that history is prone to believe any story that has potential to elevate their status- or at least avoid lowering it.
In that instance I think that according to an internal measument, his perception of himself will decline as a white man generally will lose status if a black president is elected.

So they buy into hate for no reason. The same goes for if a white person jeopardized their privilege as with Bill Clinton.
But this is different and it is manifest differently. They can not attack as directly without being criticized. They have to find a back door. So, they look for a reason..... They can't use God anymore really.

I think they're all basically the same guy sitting together wanting to maintain their status. Hating when they are bumped down a notch.
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spamlet2002 Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
77. well,
the mind must do strange things to protect itself.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
78. Damn! Why do they always come to Florida?
Crap, we have enough bigoted wingnuts in this beleaguered state as it is.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
80. I got a neighbor who's a really nice guy. He had a McCain/Palin sign..
I didn't say anything about it. I didn't have a sign because I was afraid someone would poison my dog. Anyway he has his life savings in the stock market. I asked him how his stocks were doing and he just shook his head. I gave him a printed copy of "Who Cooked the World's Economy". I don't think he's a racist. He has an asian girlfriend. My dog loves him. He always giving him deer roasts. He a hunter. He's a really nice guy. So far he doesn't look like he's paranoid.

It's really sad that the people on the radio keep these nice people hostage. Feeding them all this crap just so they can raise their ratings and sell their books. It's a crime.

I don't know what to do about it. I still have hope that if we just keep giving them the facts that someday it will sink in.

It would be nice if their kidnappers would shut up!
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man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
81. Sounds like a really bad case of PTSD to me.
That said, it is true that they really are out to get us all. :tinfoilhat: }(
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
83. he could have developed a mental illness and i am not saying this because he changed parties
but it sounds like his belief in conspiracy theories & leaving his wife etc could be signs of a mental illness.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
84. Don't Rule Out Mental Illness
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
85. Florida? WTF? Why not Idaho?
Lord knows I met plenty of people just like him when I was out there; he'd fit right in.

Florida is just going to make him MORE pissed.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #85
116. True Vickers...we're getting Bluer by the day !
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FudaFuda Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
86. There's a country music hit record here, if you know how to phrase it. n/t


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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #86
112. Do you think Toby Keith reads Datalounge? n/t
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antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
91. I know similarly minded individuals, who are convinced a civil war is coming..
one is a professor with tenure who went (when I knew him years ago) to paramilitary training every weekend and
told me years ago that he's got to be ready for the domestic war that will erupt.





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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #91
120. Thats what I get from the nuts i work with.
They actively support another terror attack so that they can "hang it around Obama's neck".

I have to listen everyday as these idiots talk about how the "Left" destroyed the country over their hatred for Bush, blah, blah, the Democrats have been in charge in Congress since this banking crisis started, blah, blah, The government is taxing hard working people to pay for lazy welfare cases blah, blah...and other vile trash...

I hear Hannity and Limbaugh quotes constantly, its like they are brainwashed zombies.

I work for a Contractor on a Military base so I can't escape it. I mean I could but the money is good so I tolerate it.

I just wish something could be done to shut it down.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
94. Interesting post. But do consider that he may have had other problems you don't know about.
He could have been having marital problems--whether his fault or hers--before, and they may have added to his anger, especially if his wife disagreed with him. Some people are so certain of their own infallibility (myself included) that admitting they are wrong is just difficult. Under normal circumstances, they can do it, especially if circumstances are irrefutable. But under extreme stress, when a person's confidence is already weak, they can draw into themselves and feel that everyone who disagrees with them is not only wrong, but a dangerous adversary. That would fit with his choosing to leave his wife rather than seek help--she became an adversary with her demands. If she wasn't already part of his feelings of being beseiged.

Marital problems, work, financial problems, and a lot of factors could have been troubling him, without anyone even realizing it. When your mind is over-stressed, it snaps more easily.

And while it's possible, it doesn't sound like the mental illness I've been around. Not like schizophrenia or bipolarism or such things. Stress, depression, and stuff like that seem more likely. I say this because he doesn't sound delusional, just extreme. A schizophrenic, for instance, would not just feel that the world was heading into a crisis, but would feel that his wife or close friends were secretely spying on him as well. The actions become worse than pacing and muttering, they become dangerous, or at least unpredictable. He sounds more like he has convinced himself the world is a certain way, and shut himself to all evidence to the contrary. Having grown up around rabid KKK members as well as true schizophrenia, that's just my observation, and it has no weight as anything other than a passing comment. It just sounds more like overload to stress than like a full-blown psychosis.

Your conclusions about the hate speech of the conservative media is well said, and still holds no matter what triggered him. They prey on people under stress, and use fear to trigger a bunker mentality. They create an enemy to frighten us all, hoping the majority will cower behind them for protection. Reagan used to say that openly, giving odd speeches about aliens invading us and causing us to all unite against them. That was Bush's tactic with the war on terror, too. And usually, as with both Bushes and Reagan, turning their political opponents into the same type of enemy--calling us traitors, deviants, socialists, whatever slur they can invent--makes sure the frightened turn only to them.

For whatever reason, your friend fell for it, and I guess the Obama/Clinton battle was the final trigger. It may not have been the whole trigger, though. Even most of us political fanatics can step away from it and function. Sounds like he was already scared, and wanting a Savior, and when the world wouldn't let him have the Savior he wanted, he ran and hid from the person who take the Savior away.

My thoughts, anyway. Informative post, thanks for taking the time for it, and for giving your insights.
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Locrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #94
99. great post jobycom
Throw in age and male hormone depletion (yes, it does exist) along with personal numbing drug of choice (alcohol, sugars, TV, etc) and you get a very fragile person that is prone to the mutterings of the RW preachers.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
96. extreme racism is like a mental illness
combined with constantly wingnut hate radio reinforcement :nuke:
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Sheltiemama Donating Member (892 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
98. How very sad.
Thank you for this thought-provoking post.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
100. he sounds like a racist, delusional asshole
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DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
101. I have not yet read all of the responses..
so I apologize if someone brought this up already but this man may be very sick. My husband passed away last year and for the last four years of his life he went through what I would call a completer personality change. He became very isolated and just someone I did not recognize. It turned out he was really very very sick.
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Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
102. Damn...not to Florida! We have too many crazies down here now!
and they have guns! Our legislature just put millions into more gun permits!


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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
103. The notion that a race war is about to erupt
is at minimum 40 years old. That was the main thing that motivated Charles Manson. For those of you who don't remember him, go read "Helter Skelter" by Vince Bugliosi.

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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
105. Jeez sounds just like my father-in-law!
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President Decider Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
107. This perfectly describes a friend of mine. He insists that becuse of Obama ...
His party, his life, and our country .... are somehow just now in shambles (as if all this just happened since Pres. Obama was sworn in). I feel like shaking him and saying, "Dude ... where in the hell have you been the past few years?"

Knowing it took nearly a decade of capitalist greed run-amok to get us to where we are today, what kind of village idiot would think that this is somehow Obama's fault?

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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
108. My two bit analysis just from reading your post leads me to believe this man suffered
from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome initially caused by the war with Vietnam. This may have been suppressed for a while, but the fear promoted by the "The War Against Terror" combined with the hate filled propaganda war against President Obama's coincidental name, questioning of his religion, nationality, etc. may have triggered this man's PTSD in to an active state.

"Its the worst kind of hate speech because while the Limbuaghs and Hannitys promote hatred of liberals, they seem to also hate their audience.

"Why else would they go to such lengths to make them feel powerless and miserable?'

My answer to your final question is that in the best case scenario, they do it to feed their own personal feelings of powerlessness, they can't feel good about them selves unless someone weaker than them is suffering, it's like they say "misery loves company." On top of that, some people pay them to do it and greed is the primary basis.

In the worst case scenario is, they do it to incite an unstable person to take violent action against their political opponent because the hatemonger doesn't have the guts to run for office or the integrity to follow the will of the American People.

My final statement may sound like a contradiction but I believe at times there are good reasons to be afraid and or vigilant. I felt the same way over these past eight years ever since what I believe to be a legalized coup having taken place, combined with the abuse of power and non-stop corruption which transpired. I don't believe anyone can ever entirely eliminate conspiracy as a fact of life, throughout history, conspiracy in one form or another has reared it's ugly head.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
109. Is his name Charlie Manson?
I have relatives who are practically suicidal over Obama victory. My Mom is coming around a bit.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
111. You have to remember, if he fought in Vietnam, he was fighting
against the communists - the next worst thing to a communist in the right-wing smear world is a socialist. Just as the right has turned the term "liberal" into a bad word, so too have they made the term "socialist" an evil term.

Some folks cannot differentiate between communist and socialist, so perhaps to your neighbor, all that he fought against in Nam, all that he risked and lost while in Nam, is for naught if our nation becomes a socialist nation.

The evil fucktards know what they are doing, they twist and distort, manipulate and destroy. They want the majority to fear Obama's politics, the politics of the dems, terrorism fell short so they go back to the trusty "communism" and make a socialist a communist.

Folks like RL are simply in love with the sound of their own voices, their control and power comes from their voice and it's impact on others - they like it when folks are jazzed or unnerved.

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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
113. Tuff shit! If he's that wound up because another dictator didn't steal...
office, then he needs professional help!
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
114. Dude
>>Then, he thanked me for asking about it, which was weird. * I mean that it was weird that he would >>be so grateful about someone acknowledging his POW cap, something that should be a simple, >>respectful gesture. Not that he was weird, but that people who ignore such things are weird.*


My brother has never heard a single story about me when I was overseas. Every time it came up in conversation the first year I was home, he flatly said "lets talk about something else" I can only speculate why, but it is a common reaction.

For the freeper minded, it is because I actually went and did what they profess to support, and profess to be committed to (even though none of them can somehow find the time). Its because I did something for others than myself.

Veterans just want to be heard. I want people to know everything I experienced and felt in this whole process. Then maybe more thought will go into the decision making process before committing to war.

The right wing has been successful in labeling veterans like me somehow as second class veterans, and they all buy into that. Which is why they are the enemy.

Pittsburgh was a nice place to grow up. Maybe it was the frickin humidity that made him leave...

sgt pasto
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
115. Are stories like these really necessary to share...
Does anyone have any uplifting stories to share? Negative energy draws negative situations. Sounds like the guy
was headed in that direction anyway. If it wasn't Obama it would have been something else to trigger this guy.
What is the point of this story? That the world is full of potential nutcases?
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Danieljay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
117. The man likely has a mental illness. n/t
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
118. PTSD.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
119. He needs medication
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blossomstar Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
123. His wife is very fortunate
that he left! Obviously he was so simple minded he could be easily led just by listening to that garbage. So sad.
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