Dean for health would have been a home run - he has already been there and done that for his state

[2Design]

He has a winning record - the new pick has not - obama needs a home run here and instead he keeps picking wimps

[FrenchieCat]

1. Dean is considered hyperpartisan by most in Congress.

He was after all DNC Chair. Just him being at the head of Health Care reform would have allowed crazed GOP Talking points, and therefore distracted from what needs to pass ASAP! It would be like a past RNC Chair or a Karl Rove being put in charge of Health Care reform under Bush; the only thing that you'd get out of it is a giant fight from the other side, with an excuse to calvanize moderates and Indies away from the deed at hand. Remember that no matter how popular Pres. Obama might be, the media is still very powerful, and the whole point at the end of the day is to pass health care reform, not end up with blood on your hands just to satisfy some faction who revere Howard Dean. Howard Dean technically understands this, which is why both Daschle and Sebelius regardless of what milktoasts some might think they are, are better positioned to keep the focus on what the focus needs to be on.

[cali]

3. Governor Dean could have and would have dealt with that

and dealt with it well. Let's face it, this had far more to do with other considerations. I think your explanation is simply buying into spin and rather foundationless. And neither Daschle or Sebelieus has the track record. period.

[FrenchieCat]

5. What is the track record that Howard Dean has that Daschle and Sebelius don't?

Further, it wouldn't have been up to Gov. Dean to "deal" with that.

As for my explanation being foundationaless, that's a matter of opinion, but not anything more.

[dsc]

8. every single child in VT is insured

that isn't true of Kansas.

[FrenchieCat]

12. Two different states, last I checked.

And governing in two different times in our economic history.

But yes, my point wasn't that Howard Dean wasn't best qualified,
although someone made the point that Daschle and Sebelius were/aren't.....

I was saying simply that there are factors beyond his qualification that
may have been considered.

[dsc]

17. actually it wasn't my point as this isn't my thread

but I directly answered a question you asked. If you feel the answer is irrelevent you shouldn't have asked. On edit I will say that Daschle's tax problem was disqualifying as I felt it was for Geither.

[cali]

11. His record of healthcare coverage in Vermont

not to mention he's a physician and understands it from that important perspective. And sure it's an opinion that YOUR opinion was simply opinion and foundationless. But then I doubt there's anything Obama could do that would invoke even a mild criticism from you. And you talk about others worshipping Dean. That's fairly interesting.

[FrenchieCat]

13. I haven't called anyone a worshiper, except one person in this entire forum.....

and I did that once, and it wasn't you.

But I understand where you are coming from, and yes, it is all fairly interesting,
which is why we are having a discussion about it all, no doubt.

[2Design]

23. Dean created health care in his state - the new pick from kansas

has been unsuccessful in doing that and it is stated in writeups on her

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

7. You are quite welcome,

although you certainly are welcome to disagree with my take,
although doing so in a rational manner would help the debate greatly,
rather than hinder.

[nbsmom]

9. Aside from Daschle's tax issues

He was a de facto lobbyist between the time he was voted out of the Senate and the time he jumped on the Obama train. Dean wasn't allowed to be as ubiquitous as KKKarl even as DNC chair, so why would he suddenly inspire so much rancor among the (out-of-favor) party?

He managed to piss off everyone at the DLC because he continually showed them what lying sacks of excrement they were determined to be.

(By the way, what is this word 'calvanize'? )

[FrenchieCat]

14. Must be the word galvanized.....mispelled!

I should include in my sig line that English is not my mother tongue, and that I rarely do spell checks. Consider some of my errors like an "accent".

I didn't like Daschle as HHS either.

As for rancor from the press and the GOP, it really doesn't take much, e.g., Daschle was certainly not given a pass, as he is history.

[nbsmom]

19. Hope I didn't sound snarky

I thought you might be referring to Calvin, e.g., politicians 'martyring' themselves to make a point.

Daschle deserved everything he got and then some. Shame on him and Gephardt for having toadied to the Bush faction and allowed so much of the egregious offenses to occur on their watch.

DLC came in to power during Clinton, and many folks held their noses and let it go during the Clinton administration because people with a D after their names were ostensibly making the decisions. But Daschle's wife never stopped being a lobbyist.

[dflprincess]

21. Let's make it clear that Daschle was a defacto lobbyist for health insurance companies

He acted as an "advisor" to United Health Group. - Yeah, that's the guy I'll trust to reform the healthcare system.

[2Design]

24. that is exactly it - he is a truthsayer and others can not stand the truth

his strategy worked and he was strong enough to stand by his convictions and push them through - I have no idea the behind the scenes crap but it is very unfortunate he is not being picked - he is one person to get things done - without him they are going back to the same stuff and will not do as well nationwide - I don't understand obama not picking him since his DFA is what funded obama when he was an unknown - this is a kick in the teeth for helping - he has proven he can get things done against the odds

[Warpy]

2. I think not appointing Dean was the deal Obama had to make

with the DLC in order to get experienced people into other posts.

Politics is a dirty business sometimes.

[acmavm]

6. No kidding. After seating Geithner and Vilsack, I just figured

anything goes.

But to draw the line at the guy who actually ensured that we would have a democratic president, that is really screwed up.

[stillcool]

10. Is everyone other than Dean a 'wimp'?

what's a home run when choosing the Secretary of Health and Human Services? How do you score a base hit?

[nbsmom]

15. It would have been smarter

To pull from the private sector ranks on this one. The guy from Starbucks or the one from Intel who's quantified the cost of providing employee benefits in the current employer-provided insurance model. It would have had the added benefit of shutting up all the corporatists sitting at the table no matter whether they had an R or a D after their names.

Alternatively, why not take someone from the sectors involved -- payor, provider, even (gasp!) pharma? If Obama's team has determined to make it a private sector traditionally funded solution (which is what they've signaled with the Sebelius pick), then go ahead and let the big dogs own the solution, since they're going to have to buy off on it anyway.

[stillcool]

18. I guess I'm just not..

as smart as so many DU'ers are, in determining the faulty reasoning Obama uses in choosing horrific individuals for different cabinet positions.

[dflprincess]

22. A private sector solution is no solution at all

I do not understand how continuing to funnel money to the crooks who are cheating us now can be called "reform". Obama doesn't seem to get it that access to health insurance is not the same as access to health care. I think Dean is aware of the distinction and might have been able to make it clear to Obama.

[nbsmom]

26. I agree

But there doesn't seem to be any meaningful solution coming out of a Red State former insurance commissioner 'D', either. And if they make it about her ethics (the late-term abortion dr., etc.) they could marginalize anything she might have otherwise brought to the table.

OTOH, if you keep the private sector players seated at the table, and make those crooks keep their hands where you can see them, at least you stand a reasonable chance of coming up with something that might not just pass but actually work.

(Imagine how different our lives would be if Hilary had tried this approach in 93.)

[dflprincess]

27. I wish you were right, but until I hear the insurance company execs

screaming about how awful any plan is, I'll have to assume it's good for them and bad for us.

She can come up with something that promises all sorts of oversite, but they'll find a way around that. And, until the profit motive is removed, we're screwed.

[FrenchieCat]

16. I personally would have loved to have Howard Dean as HHS,

and was dissappointed when he wasn't named as such. However, in thinking about some of the reasons why, the one I gave in my previous post is reasonable.

Of course, some believe that it has to do with some supposed friction with Rahm. Personally though, I don't think that would or should have done Howard Dean in, because I do believe that these folks are grown ups....and I can't imagine that kind of childishness from Rahm being the key factor in Obama's decision. I really do believe it had more to do with putting someone in there that is relatively low key enough to disallow distractions to deflect from the Obama administration's goal of health care reform.

Some believe this rationale to be useless, but I see it as quite commonsensical.

[Allyoop]

20. Dr. Dean

I love Howard Dean and give him much credit for Democratic success due to his 50 State Strategy.

Yes he knows a lot about the universal health care issue, but his state - Vermont - is VERY liberal. Passing the issue there is entirely different from trying to shepherd universal health care for the entire country through the US House and Senate.

Could he have done it - maybe, but I'm pretty sure his leading that charge would bring more Republican ammunition against the project than for it. Whoever is in charge is going to take a lot of flak, but Dean would (IMO) generate more.

[DFW]

25. All this stuff about Howard being "too partisan" is hogwash

Even Richard Viguerie, of all people, wanted to congratulate Howard on his victory last year.
RICHARD VIGUERIE for Pete's sake. Richard has a sharp tongue, but knows how to "leave my guns
at the door (his words)" when appropriate. Howard would have been brilliant at HHS. Sibelius
may be OK--she is no idiot--, but Howard would have been brilliant. The country lost out big
time by not getting Howard in that cabinet post. I rate that as Obama's worst move since he took
office.