Quick question about NAMBLA - I'm debating gay rights with a wingnut....

[Sarah Ibarruri]

and the a-h keeps saying that gay groups accepted NAMBLA. What is he talking about? Did some right wing talking head pull this out of his _______? Is there the most remote basis in fact about this?

In other words, what should I say to this a-h that keeps saying this? Please help.

[Taverner]

1. Gay groups DID NOT accept NAMBLA

IN fact, ask any gay rights worker, and they will have nothing but contempt for those child molesters because of this meme

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. Okay then where is this guy getting this, and this RWer is not the first a-h to say

such a thing. What are they saying this for? Are they interpreting something else as this? I'm not even sure what to say. Do I just say, "No, that's not true?" Oh wait, I'm going to say, "Really! Prove it." Hang on and I'll be right back...

[Iggo]

25. Why are you asking us where this asshole gets his info?

Ask the asshole.

[Stevenmarc]

13. Unfortunatly they have been allowed to march in the NYC Gay Pride parade in the past

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. Oh? Maybe that's what he's referring to. Why would they be allowed?

In any case, the a-h has not responded to me.

[Stevenmarc]

18. It was a more radical time

and it pissed off a whole lot of people in the community that they were allowed, me included. Some people were under the impression that if they drew a line anywhere then that line could be moved to outcast any group, it was an overreaction at a time when gay rights were few and far between.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. Thanks for the info. I knew nothing about it so I went to wiki and there's something in there about

that.

It says that gay women united to get that group kicked out, thank goodness and blessings! phew!

[Stevenmarc]

31. I like to add

it wasn't just gay women that wanted to exclude them there were plenty of gay men, like me, in those planning committee meetings that knew that allowing them would come back to haunt us in the future.

[pnwmom]

22. There was a controversy years ago because NAMBLA was allowed to march

in certain gay pride parades.

[Fridays Child]

2. Did you ask him which groups, specifically?

Make him step up to the plate with his "facts."

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. I just asked the little monster to prove it. Let's see what he says nt

[Giant Robot]

3. Not really what you are asking but

demand he back that up with some source. Any source. Watch him sputtering and fall apart.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. Yep, I just did that. No response so far! nt

[kywildcat]

5. say 'your lying, and I don't do discussion with proven liars'

end of argument.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. LOL! Funny you should say that....

I said, "I need facts and proof, since you are a notorious liar."

[BlooInBloo]

6. Your mistake is in treating anything said by a wingnut as though it might possibly be true.

[tangent90]

9. I've heard of this group for 50 years but never met anyone in gay or any community

who 'accepts' them. I'm not even sure it even exists except perhaps as an invention by the far-right to marginalize lgbt people. It wouldn't be the first time they did stuff like that. And if it actually is 'real', I don't believe it would have more than a few hundred "members" anyway.
:grr:

[Mz Pip]

11. As for specifics

There are no gay groups that accept NAMBLA.

Pedophiles come in all sexual orientations, not just gays. Ask any woman who was abused as a child by an older male adult.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

12. Oh I know. I had just gotten through telling him that nearly all pedophiles are straight

He didn't like that, apparently, and pulled that thing out about NAMBLA and gays.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. Okay... the a-h is either dead, in a coma, or left- he has not responded one word nt

[yewberry]

16. He's not being honest.

NAMBLA used to be part of ILGA, but were expelled. GLAAD issued a statement concurring with ILGA and saying they "deplored" NAMBLA.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

17. Oh ok.... I see where he's pulled that out of.

Well, the a-h has disappeared. I think he's frantically trying to find something online to prove his point.

[Politicalboi]

20. Or he's trying to make

The little boy stop crying already.

[MadMaddie]

21. The Repugs said Gay groups accept Nambla

No one approves of these criminals.

[readmoreoften]

23. Claim that heterosexual groups accept North American Man-Girl Love Association

Part of the way Christian Conservatives help foster female child rape is by acting as if "NAMBLA" is the only pedophile organization when "NAMGLA" is just as active. Church groups have NEVER spoken out against NAMGLA and, in doing so, obviously give NAMGLA their tacit support. (How's that?)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

24. Oh absolutely. The majority of pedophiles are straight. nt

[Tangerine LaBamba]

26. This is simple

Instead of trying to prove him wrong - taking the defensive posture (which is a chronic Democratic mistake) - instead, tell him to show you proof that this acceptance of NAMBLA actually happened.

Take the offensive every time one of these dickheads makes any kind of ridiculous assertion. It's the old "Put up or shut up" we played as kids.

If you're gonna say it, you better be ready to back it up with proof. Otherwise, blow it out your ass.

Don't EVER be defensive with these people. If you are, you've already lost.

Now, go get him...

[TheBigotBasher]

28. Agree with your point,

also worth pointing out Libertarian Conservatives support NAMBLA.

Just to dig the heels in - remind him of Mark Foley.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. I have a really big

hard-on for these goofballs who throw out unsubstantiated claims, percentages, all the usual bullshit.

I learned very early in my legal career to pounce immediately when anyone stated such a "fact." Too many people immediately start defending, or, like the OP, start looking for ways to rebut the claim, when, in fact, the best and most effective strategy is to go right up into their faces and order them to prove it.

Also, I hate bullies, and these jerks are the worst kind of bullies - the cowardly kind.

Ah, yes, Mark Foley. A true GOPig.

Is that true about Libertarian Conservatives supporting NAMBLA?

What's a Libertarian Conservative, anyway? I've concluded that labels like "liberal" and "conservative" are pretty meaningless these days.

[TheBigotBasher]

40. Dr Ruwart - Short answers to quick questions

"Children who willingly participate in sexual acts have the right to make that decision as well, even if it's distasteful to us personally. Some children will make poor choices just as some adults do in smoking and drinking to excess. When we outlaw child pornography, the prices paid for child performers rise, increasing the incentives for parents to use children against their will."

A Libertarian Conservative is a free market libertarian, as opposed to say an anarchist.

Pure do what you want, find your own way to hell or heaven.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

37. Okay, he posted something from a right wing group Concerned Women For America

which said that some guy named Hay was involved with NAMBLA, etc. etc. I looked up Concerned Women for America and they're an extremist right wing group founded by the rapture guy that wrote Left Behind.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. Do you consider that authentic proof?

I wouldn't.

It's some web site. That's not even admissible in court, let alone believable in a debate. Anyone can say anything on a website.

I want proof. Viable, real proof, not just what "some guy" claims.

This is why hearsay evidence isn't admissible in court.

I bet you have so many better things to do than to argue with people who aren't going to back down from their ridiculous assertions, no matter how you back them into a corner?

I do.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

39. Hell no. I don't accept anything from those little nazis.....

.... and yet this is about the only kind of stuff these whackos read. Even Wikipedia poses a threat to right wingers, and they're afraid of anything that's not extremely right wing.

[fascisthunter]

27. throw it back in his face because there are a lot of pedos in the GOP

[Sarah Ibarruri]

36. Definitely nt

[SalmonChantedEvening]

29. EEK. Flashback.

This was almost a weekly argument on the Coulter message board at yahoo.

They'd drag this up, or Ann would in her column, and the same debunking would occur. It was a favorite chunk of red meat for her to throw out.

This person could've been a regular there. Ask him to produce a single record of any endorsement. He won't. He can't.

Never happened.

:hi:

[robdogbucky]

32. What Tangerine, Fascist and Salmon said....

Can be expounded upon at the following excellent website on this general topic.

Each of the headlines there connects to an actual news account, not some air-head's made up lie;

http://www.armchairsubversive.org/
(snip):

"• Fox News producer Aaron Bruns was arrested on charges of possessing child pornography.
• Republican activist and former presidential campaign chairman Jeffrey Claude Bartleson was arrested on charges of sexually molesting a 5-year old boy.
• Republican activist and former chairman of the Christian County Republicans Royce Fessenden pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree child molestation and one count of second-degree statutory sodomy...."


I have never done a post linking excerpts like this yet, so I hope I did it right and won't get TS'd for some violation.

Just give the irritant this link and ask him to explain it to you.

Love that pic of Arundhati Roy.


robdogbucky

[Tangerine LaBamba]

42. Well done, robdogbucky!!!

You're off to a hell of start, I'd say.

May I stalk you here at DU? You're looking very interesting.

Walnut Creek, huh? I once lived there, back in the mid-seventies. Lancaster Court. Walnut Creek was really small back then, and Pleasanton was not much more than a prairie.

Is the renowned pie place still there in WC? It was great, but, alas, my memory no longer holds its name.

A great big "Welcome to DU!" robdogbucky!!!

:toast:

[robdogbucky]

43. Thanks, but.....

Tangerine, I'm new here and cannot even send anyone a private message yet, so in response, let me say, thanks to all the....

Um, no, that isn't what I wanted to say.

You said and I will say in response:

You're off to a hell of start, I'd say.
- Thank you, thanks very much, thank you (in my best Elvis voice)

May I stalk you here at DU? You're looking very interesting.
- Well, are you a man, woman, dog, or other? (in my best Joe Friday voice)

Walnut Creek, huh? I once lived there, back in the mid-seventies. Lancaster Court. Walnut Creek was really small back then, and Pleasanton was not much more than a prairie.
- I have only lived in this area with my wife for the last 10 years, before that it was Berkeley and Oaktown. Pleasanton, down the Iron Horse trail from here is still a prairie, with McMansions surrounding strip malls and business parks.

Is the renowned pie place still there in WC? It was great, but, alas, my memory no longer holds its name.
- I dunno. The only pie place of any repute here that I know of are the Nation's burger places that make their own. Back in Bezerkely there was Toot Sweets on Gilman and in Albany on Solano there was Walker's Pie Shop (I think they recently bit the business dust) that were of special note to the, er, appetite-frenzied individual if you get my drift. Oooh, Toot Sweets had that double fudge pie that was like mainlining truffles....MMMMMMMMMM!

A great big "Welcome to DU!" robdogbucky!!!
- Thanks for the welcome, but I have a question of the admin; if I cannot send anyone like Tangerine here a personal message until I have more posts under my belt, how can one have civil discourse and not go off-topic, like this? Now if my memory serves me well, Tangerine has an interesting background that he/she/it described on line in part here recently, wherein it was written that Tangerine had previous experience in writing for some show? That is interesting. Maybe a law career? Do I have that right? Anyway, those things interest me, as I have had a career on the periphery of the law and my wife writes and I am interested in all things written, etc. So, if you can send me a private email and explain some of that it would be helpful, as I have somewhat of a pen, er....keyboard tied behind my back and can only communicate or respond in this public forum. So there.

Sorry to take it so off-topic, but, well, what else could I do?

I will take my response off-line and thanks for providing so much information and entertainment over the years.

(Robdogbucky now slinks back into the shadows from which he emerged....)


robdogbucky

[Tangerine LaBamba]

44. I didn't know that about PMs

You have to have a certain # of posts before you can PM anyone? Well, then, let's just go off-topic here for a bit, and if we get in trouble, well, you'll take the whacks while I arrange the payoff.

I'm a girl Tangerine. Here's my latest portrait:



Don't show it to your wife - I cannot bear yet another jealous woman.

Yeah, I figured that pie place was long gone. It was sensational. I wanted to live in Berkeley when we moved to the Bay Area from the DC area, but my then-husband was starting a new job at Lawrence Livermore and I was taking the Bar Review course at Boalt, so WC was a good halfway point.

Then I, the confirmed lefty peacenik, found out what Livermore Labs did. That's why our divorce took place in Contra Costa County Courthouse.

Now, now, get out of those shadows. There's no running and hiding here at DU - too many bright and compelling folks, or haven't you noticed? There is always something interesting to read, maybe comment on, and perhaps even learn from.

You've been lurking for a while, haven't you? Yes, I have a legal background, and, yes, I've written for TV and a few big screen films. Now I write novels and essays when I am so moved. My career counselor in high school would be very disappointed in me for bouncing around so much, but she was far too preoccupied with the girls' basketball teams and my tolerance for boredom grows shorter as my years grow longer.

Make a donation to DU, robdogbucky, and I bet you can then send and receive PMs. Just a guess. Or just keep posting to me until we get your count up. How many do you need? I'll try to send you one after I post this, and we'll see if we can bring the whole show down.

And, again, welcome....................... :hi:

[robdogbucky]

46. That is friggin' hilarious, ...

The pic especially. That has to be from some Venceremos trip you took to Havana, no? Where else would the cutie find a stogie like that, and the outfit? Could be Nawlens too though. I suppose Venceremos kinda dates me too, as if your reference to going to Boalt in the '70s didn't do that for you.


"You don't have enough posts to send private messages.

If you have any questions, please contact the site administrator.
Click here to go back to previous page."


Zis is vat I encounter when I try to PM your account, dahlink. Twy to unnerstan', I can't donate right now, either, so I have to communicate to you, a stranger I have just been introduced to, and try to be sincere and honest, knowing we are as transparent as a Larry Craig with a wide stance in a terminal stall. Remember Lucy, you kinda came on to me. I am not dat kind of guy, you know?

My wife is a published writer as well as having a full-time career otherwise, and out of respek for her privacy I will save that conversation for another time when I, ahem, have more posts under me belt.

Please tell me more about the scripts and novels you have done, and if we need to justify this cyber-rap, then I will ferret out some piece of info to keep the post on topic. Wait, I made reference to Larry Craig, that should be enough to suggest to Sarah to mention to her tormentor, eh? Mark Foley? Larry Vitter? Ted Haggard?

So, Tangerine, now that we have satisfied one of the posting requirements, and now that my wife is in the other end of the house, how has life been? What area of law did you practice? You can PM me, right? Why not do that and tell me about your writing adventures. Also tell me more about your law career. I had a similar experience with an ex, and well, let's say when there is a conflict of values as you cited, there is only one way it can end.

Are you keeping your hand in the law, or do you write full-time? The writing process is fascinating to me, and I am rather an ugly duckling compared to my swan-like wife when it comes to that pursuit. She had a more extensive formal edumacation in that regard. Nonetheless, I have found a certain proclivity for expressing myself in astute terms that folks unnerstan' and as one attorney said to me, "One thing for sure Robdog, you do have the gift of gab." No doubt from listening to my Irish drunkles as a lad, sitting under their card tables.

I have a tangerine tree in the back yard, and some years I can make really great sorbet at Christmas time, but this year, oy vey, nuttin' Same for dem almonds last season. The fig tree and Valencia oranges have been gangbusters though. Do you no longer live in California? Do you fish? Ain't this the sh*ts? Is this what facebook and twitter are like?

Sorry, Mods, to go so off-topic, but hey, I cited to Larry Craig for Sarah's argument.


robdogbucky

[Tangerine LaBamba]

47. Oh, we are hardly off topic

What was the topic?

I'm signing off now for the rest of the evening, to enjoy the snow that just started falling. But I did try to PM you - no go. We'll just chatter away here until someone chastises us.

I'm just outside of Washington, DC in Alexandria, VA, and it's the first time in eight years that I feel safe with that new fellow in the White House. And I'm only ten minutes from the Pentagon, where the plane hit on 9/11. I still feel safer today.

I'll save my personal information for you when we can PM - do you know the magic number? I blab enough about my real life here without getting specific. I'm sure you understand this.

Feel free to blab away at me, bucky - I've always been a sucker for dark Irishmen, and if you were influenced by them, even if you're not one, you can come play in my sandbox any old time.

For now, I'll leave you with a bit of very good advice, and I'll catch you next time:

[robdogbucky]

49. So stay warm

That is the only thing I ever miss about living in the winter climates of the upper midwest, the cozies that can exist when there is a nice snow storm and everything essentially stops. Unfortunately, the glow wears off after a month or so of them and thinking back, I am so glad to live in the temperate climes of the Bay Area. I can drive to the snow up in the Sierra in the winter time any time I want, then drive back. Just last week it snowed ten inches up on Mt. Diablo, visible from my house here, but it melted in 2 days.

I once lived in a farm house in the coldest, snowiest winter in Wisconsin in about 100 years and we heated with wood. We ran out of wood early in January and had to scrounge for more from local sawmills as the winter and the storms wore on. The snow was up over the windows of the house. It was like living in an igloo. That was the winter I decided I would not ever do that again.

I am Black Irish, Tangerine, as that myth has prevailed about any dark haired lad from the old sod for a long time. Unfortunately I researched the issue a while back and learned it was not supported by genetic facts. Still, it was fun to think that I had Turkish or Spanish blood, even though all I knew about that was in me was 100% Irish from Sligo and Cork. There was a backward migration from the Celtic Isles to Spain, specifically the Catalun region. In places like Vigo, Spain, there are villages where red haired freckled guys parade around in kilts and play bagpipes and have done so for a couple hundred years. Seems that was fallout from when the Spanish Armada crash landed on the Celtic shores and were stranded for many years in Ireland/Scotland.

I grew up in my immigrant maternal grandparents' house, with thick brogues and lots of superstitions from the old country abounding. Ours was a neighborhood that saw many households with three generations under one roof. Assisted living centers were non-existent, as gramps and granny were usually close by to help rear the youngest while everyone else that was able was in school or worked. Extended families were the norm as opposed to today's blended families, often times with three kids in the same family with three different sets of parents for them, all divorced multiple times. Being raised in that Irish Catholic household and having been an altar boy, etc., I was lucky in that I was never subjected to priestly pedophile abuse, but I have met guys that grew up in Chicago or Erie, PA that were and they really suffered. I know of one case where that man firmly believes he would never had led a gay lifestyle as an adult had he not been repeatedly, unwillingly, molested by not one but several, parish priests through the years in his hometown and one basketball coach. There, I covered the thread-related requirement again.

Alexandria is getting hit with snow tonight for sure and ain't the internet age wunnerful? I was able to view all the weather webcams in and around the D.C. area to see for myself. Of course we are having our own Pacific storm complex out here right now, where it may rain for a week straight. It has turned really rainy and windy tonight and all the windows and doors are rattling and I can hear the trees and leaves blowing around outside. I like it and it is a form of that old midwest blizzard cozy. At least it isn't life-threatening to go outside in it like it would be if I were in say, Minnesota or Wisconsin during a blizzard. No, m'am, I will take this temperate clime, with only water for a winter's experience. We do need copious rain here with the drought and it has been making up for lost time in the last month.

Talk to you later, Tangerine, stay warm.

robdogbucky

[omega minimo]

51. Master Bait!

:wow:

[chrisa]

33. Total bullcrap.

NAMBLA is a group of psychos and potential killers.

Gay rights groups would never support them.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Maybe he's confused "gay groups" and "NAMBLA" with the GOP & The Vatican?

You want to talk about individuals and organizations that have protected child abusers and helped them escape justice, why not start with the one with all the money and power?

[donheld]

35. The a-h is a flat out liar!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

41. Do you also buy that Democrats have accepted Al Quaida too?

Because that's about on the same level of stupidity. Freepers can only ad hom....nothing else.

[Touchdown]

45. You know. Just the other day, I was thinking

about the stupidest thing I ever heard in my life.

It isn't any more.:puke:

[deaniac21]

48. There is nothing gay about NAMBLA.

[dustbunnie]

50. Weren't you also the person who said nazis threw children into the air...

to fire guns at them. Honestly. Get a boyfriend.