Personal Responsibility.

[MercutioATC]

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around, but WE bear the most responsibility.

WE elected the people who failed to provide adequate regulation.

WE chose to remain blissfully ignorant.

WE fed the system through excessive consumption and irresponsible borrowing.


We blame the government, but we elect the government...the 50% of us who even bother to vote, that is.

We blame the media, but the media only tells us what we want to hear. We don't demand truth in reporting, we want to hear stories...is Jessica Simpson getting fat? What are the "10 Signs that your Man is Cheating on you"? Who was Simon mean to on American Idol?

We blame "predatory lenders" but for every predatory deal there is a borrower who failed to complete their due diligence.

We blame the Republicans or Democrats or the wealthy or the poor or the banks or the legal system...when, in fact, the problem is all of us.

When we spend more time paying attention to fantasy football than our investments...when we buy that tabloid instead of real news...when we spend $15 a ticket to see "The Jonas Brothers in 3D", we are creating the problem.


Until we own our responsibility in this mess, things are never going to change.

We have met the enemy....and he is us.

[SheilaT]

1. I did not vote

for the Republicans. I did not favor the deregulation. I never tune in to Rush or Hannity or read Drudge, so I bear no responsibility for what they say. I never play fantasy football, and do spend some time (possibly not enough) on my investments.

I am tired of being told I bear responsibility for the mess we are in, because I don't.

[MercutioATC]

2. I'm speaking in a broader sense. "We" are the American people.

Sure, there are individuals who have done little to contribute to our current situation...there are some that have actively worked against it.

...but the vast majority of Americans are self-indulgent. They want bread and circuses all of the time and blame others when the people they cede their authority to take advantage of them.

Until people take responsibility for their actions (or inaction), nothing is going to change. The people's aversion to responsibility is the root of the problem.

[elizfeelinggreat]

25. wrongo

You said:

"We blame the Republicans or Democrats or the wealthy or the poor or the banks or the legal system...when, in fact, the problem is all of us."

Not, it's not all of us. All of us did not have the power to bring on this mess. Even speaking "collectively" all of us didn't approve of what was going on - the polls were collectively against this way of running our country most of the Bush presidency. Did you not see the massive demonstrations?

Your example is flossing piks? Have you not paid any attention to the movements for local food, recycling, living more simply?

Please try to calm down and encourage rather than place blame. I know it helps me to reach out to young people, they are eager to learn and make a difference in our world.

Also, you said:

"the vast majority of Americans are self-indulgent. They want bread and circuses all of the time and blame others when the people they cede their authority to take advantage of them.

Until people take responsibility for their actions (or inaction), nothing is going to change. "

The vast majority of Americans have just elected the guy who ran on change and placed the responsibility for our future squarely on our shoulders by telling us we had to participate in making that change happen.

"Collectively" many millions of Americans are trying to keep a roof over their head and food on their tables with mass media telling them everything's wonderful if only the Democrats keep out of it and yet they REJECTED that message and elected President Obama. So it seems you are wrong about taking responsibility. They obviously did.


Did you realize that you are both placing blame on the need for instant gratification while exhibiting it yourself? Please try a little positive thinking because "collectively" our country just resoundingly voted for a big shakeup in the status quo. :)

[slackmaster]

6. You and I contributed to the Democratic Party's failure to nominate someone who could beat GWB

We picked the wrong people and/or failed to get the message out. I take responsibility for my part in that failure.

[GinaMaria]

17. WE did nominate someone who beat GWB

WE nominated Al Gore, who won the 2000 election. What we failed to do was revolt!

[slackmaster]

34. He didn't win by enough

If he'd carried his home state of Tennessee, there wouldn't have been any question about who won.

[GinaMaria]

42. He didn't win by enough?

He won Florida. He won.

[slackmaster]

51. Your opinion and my opinion that he won Florida were not sufficient to get him into the White House

He didn't win by enough.

[GinaMaria]

52. It's not opinion. It is fact.

He won. He won if it was one vote or a million. He won. We had a coup. * was an illegit 'leader' and the rest of the world leaders should have treated him that way.

[slackmaster]

53. Obviously not everyone agrees that it is fact.

Otherwise he would have been sworn in as President in January 2001.

[GinaMaria]

55. You are entitled to your own opinion not your own facts

Facts are not left up to agreement. What you describe has never been a part of our election process. There is nothing in our process that says presidential candidate in winner take all states needs to win by 'some imaginary number'. They need to win by one or more votes. Al Gore did.
As I said we had a coup. Our failure was in not revolting.

[slackmaster]

57. This reply does not appear to be in any way responsive to anything I have ever written on DU

:shrug:

[GinaMaria]

58. does this ring a bell?

you said: He didn't win by enough If he'd carried his home state of Tennessee, there wouldn't have been any question about who won.


Al Gore was not sworn in as president in 2000 because he didn't win by 'enough' votes according to you, but the fact is he only needed to win Florida by one vote as it is a winner take all state. He did not need to win his home state to win the presidency. He didn't need to win Florida by what-ever-number-you-deem-to-be-enough. There's no arbitrary 'enough' number that candidates must meet. He won Florida.

you said: Your opinion and my opinion that he won Florida were not sufficient to get him into the White House He didn't win by enough.


Not an opinion. It is a fact. The votes were eventually all counted and Al Gore won. He needed one more vote than gwb in Florida. He had more than one more than gwb.

You said: Obviously not everyone agrees that it is fact. Otherwise he would have been sworn in as President in January 2001.


As I stated Facts are not facts because everyone agrees they are. If everyone agreed that the earth was 6000 years old, that wouldn't make it a fact. It would be a belief. We have a documented processes for elections. A presidential candidate is not required to carry his home state or win by some mysterious 'enough' number. These are not requirements for presidential elections. A candidate wins the electoral votes of a winner take all state with a majority of votes in that state.

If you know of a documented addition to the process that supports your claim of needing to win by 'enough' (whatever this amount is) votes to actually win and or a candidate needing to win his/her home state in order to actually win, please share.

[SheilaT]

48. I worked very hard for Howard Dean

in 2004. Held meet-ups, donated money, all that stuff. When it became clear that Kerry was going to get the nomination instead, I was devastated, and kept on telling people that Kerry was a TERRIBLE nominee. Everyone kept on saying he'd be just fine, he was a great senator, yadda yadda yadda. In the end I was right. So no, I did NOT contribute to the Democratic Party's failure to nominate someone who could beat GWB.

I went on to run for office myself that year. Lost to the moderate incumbent Republican in a very Republican district in Kansas, but I did more than my share. So no, I don't feel any sense of responsibility, but a lot of anger at Democrats who fell for the media crap over "the scream" and for everyone who voted for Bush in 2000 and especially in 2004.

Lots of posters here on DU complain about stuff, but hardly anyone is even a precinct committee chair or is truly involved in grass roots politics. Posting here on DU may be fun or even cathartic, but it's not being involved in politics.

Added on edit:
Although I lost in 2004, I did well enough that the good Democrat who ran for that seat two years later won. And won re-election this past November. So I have personally made a difference, and I've seen far too many of these collective responsibility posts here on DU.

[sandnsea]

3. We let people like you

blame us instead of the motherfuckers who do this - over and over and over, century after century.

It's the asshats that control capitalism who are to blame - NOT THE PEOPLE who don't even have the equivalent of a high school education, even with a diploma.

Jesus fuck what does it take to get through to some people.

[MercutioATC]

7. Why doesn't it surprise me that we disagree?

The "asshats" who "control capitalism" only have that control to the extent that we excessively consume, don't participate in our government, and choose to remain ignorant.

These things aren't being done to us...we've allowed them to happen.

[sandnsea]

9. lol, did you move your stocks?

How many times after election 2004 did I say - move your stocks and we'll have recounts overnight.

How many times did YOU and others around here just like you - react in horror. Never wanted to boycott anything, it was a terrible thing to do, 1,000 excuses why the people should do NOTHING.

YOU are the kind of people who have power to do something but YOU blame the poorest among us - every motherfucking time.

And now you want to talk about personal responsibility??

You can add the ending yourself.

[MercutioATC]

15. I don't know why you're making these assumptions about my actions.

I don't own individual stocks, so I didn't move any. I did, however, get completely out of the stock market (401k mutual fund)and into treasuries in January 2007 because I saw this coming.

I don't think that small-scale boycotts do much, but I do refuse to give my business to certain companies...WalMart being one of them. Never shopped there, never will.

I have no more power to change things than any of us do...and I don't blame the poor, I blame all of us as a society.

You may disagree with my premise, but you're dead wrong about me as a person.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

4. You can leave me out of that "we."

I vote for those who support regulation.

I choose to pay attention.

I live within my means and have a paid-for home and vehicle.

I couldn't care less about Jessica Simpson or fantasy football or the Jonas Brothers. I ignore idiotic Yahoo! articles about relationships. One episode of American Idol, and my head was about to explode.

I blame cheap credit, elected officials, regulatory agencies, predatory lenders, and "borrowers who failed to complete their due diligence."

I do agree, however, that many will not have learned, and things are never going to change. Greed reigns supreme in this country and we're at the mercy of those looking to make a quick buck.

[MercutioATC]

11. As I said, I'm speaking of "we" in a broad sense.

There are certainly individuals who don't fall into the broader category, but "we" as a population essentially made this happen.

Personally, I think that we've lost perspective. Our time horizons used to be measured in decades...now they're measured in months. We've traded long-term prosperity for short-term gain because a disposable life that grants immediate gratification is easier.

It's a silly example, but I was in the grocery store the other day and I saw those pre-made dental floss thingies:



...and I thought about how much extra time and money and effort was spent to produce this "labor-saving" device. Then, I thought about the extra landfill space used when people throw them away. Then, I thought about the money spent to buy them that could have been used for something else....all because it's now apparently too difficult to wrap a piece of dental floss around one's finger.

It's this mindset that I'm talking about. We're self-indulgent to the point of stupidity.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

19. That's actually a perfect example...

and agree with your point about self-indulgence. A friend of mine can't even be bothered to grate cheese -- everything comes in neat little over-priced plastic packages that end up in the landfill.

We have lost perspective. I got my first credit card over 20 years ago and was scared to death of it -- "emergencies only!" warned my parents. Now I'm around students who struggle to pay their rent every month, yet wear $300 sunglasses and have all the latest gadgetry.

I have no idea how to break the mindset, and I'm sick of entitlement. I'd say "get back to basics," but many Americans don't even know what the basics are anymore. Many now are getting a taste of hardship, but when (if?) things improve, will any lessons have been learned?

[seabeyond]

5. i agree with you. we all create, we are all a part of problem, and only we can

create the solutions.

we... as in collectively all of us has dropped the word responsibility from our vocabulary.

[stray cat]

8. So did we buy a house we can't afford because if so where is my house?

[elifino]

10. The most truthful post I have ever read on DU

[HughBeaumont]

12. Ah. Finger wagging/victim blaming by one who has it made. Classic.

Just what I like to read in the morning. Fer sure.

[MercutioATC]

13. Not "finger-wagging", just an observation.

...and releasing the "victim" from their responsibility doesn't do them a service.

Notice that I've not excluded myself from blame. I'm aware of the problem which makes it easier to avoid, but I'm guilty of indulging myself at times.

The point is that we don't have to be perfect. We don't all have to ride bicycles and eat organic soy and be financial prophets...we just have to be aware and take responsibility. The small changes that would create would completely change our outlook.

[HughBeaumont]

39. Specific examples, please, on how we can "own up" to our supposed responsibility for this mess.

Also, specific examples on how those who've just had plain old bad luck, made bad decisions, chose the wrong career and are priced completely out of getting a new one, at the complete mercy of their companies and skill sets, lack social skills and the right connections, and were born poor are somehow "responsible" for their own undoing. :eyes:

[JerseygirlCT]

30. I think the point is that

blaming outside people or occurrences may leave us feeling better, but it seldom leads to any actual action or change.

When we are able to see that we each bear some responsibility (across the board) we are far more empowered to actually change things.

Active is better than passive, isn't it?

[sandnsea]

31. WE don't control the damn economy

Why in the world is that so difficult for some people to swallow. WE DON'T. It is concocted by a handful of people on Wall Street and the Treasury, and then shoved out to us. The only control WE have is to fight for living wages, but every time we do that the exact same people in this thread told us to shut up and make way for the investor class.

[JerseygirlCT]

36. We control our own behavior

we control how we choose to spend our money. We control how we vote. We control our degree of involvement in our gov't - from town level on up. We control how we teach our children.

Saying we have no control is the fastest way to cede control.

We *can* change what we do. We *can* change what we say.

[sandnsea]

37. And the people wagging their fingers now

are the ones who were whooping it up when they were told that their investor class lifestyle was not going to work. So it was OUR fault then and it's OUR fault now? Go change yourself. The "we" you want to take to task is looking back at you in the mirror. It is NOT the peons the investor class keeps wanting to blame.

[JerseygirlCT]

38. As to the "we" bit

that's rather the point, isn't it?

I'm not taking you to task. I'm suggesting that a passive stance of "this is not my fault, and I can't do anything about it" isn't going to change things a bit.

[GinaMaria]

50. but we don't control anyone else's

The sphere of control is limited to ourselves. Placing responsibility for the behavior of the collective on you is absurd. You only control your own behavior. I cannot and will not take responsibility for something I have no control over (other people's behavior) which is what the OP suggests.

[InkAddict]

14. Here, I'll own up....

TPTB tortured me with their policies, so I signed...

for loans to educate my children.
for loans to take care of the terminally ill.
for loans that bridged unemployment.

Life is risky - so I read the fine print and it said we can change the contract (the Constitution) but you can't; we can set the criteria that sets you up to fail; we can get rid of you for no reason at all - so much for the life of the American worker.

The US does not torture - Wanna buy a watch; I'll throw in the weathervane for nothing. - I may be running out of time but here's the finger to see which way the wind's ablowin'.

[GinaMaria]

16. Who's this 'we' you are talking about?

I did not elected the people who failed to provide adequate regulation.

I fought like a dog to elect people with common sense. I worked really hard at it. Part of this wasn't an election it was a selection. Never forget that.

I did not choose to remain blissfully ignorant.

Are you joking? Saying that to people here, sounds ignorant. We saw things unraveling. Many here sounded the alarms and worked to be heard. Ever get stuck in a first amendment zone?

I did not feed the system through excessive consumption and irresponsible borrowing.

I live in 700 square feet with a husband and two cats. Our mortgage is affordable on one income, in case anything happens. We have less than $700.00 of credit card debt at any time. We are saving for a bigger place but want to put enough cash down so that we could afford the mortgage, taxes etc on one income if the need for that ever arose. We don't live beyond our means.

[MercutioATC]

20. Posts #2 & #11 address that.

I'm speaking of "we" as a society. Obviously, there are individuals who are responsible and informed...but "we" as a populace created this problem and only "we" can change it.

...and that starts with recognizing that "we" bear responsibility...for both the state we're in and the solution.

[GinaMaria]

45. So your thread title is wrong. It's not personal responsibility

It's collective responsibility.

Well 'we' as in the people here have been trying to get the 'we' you speak of to wake up for years. Got a better idea on how to do this, please share. I still disagree with you that 'we as a populace' created this problem. We live in a democracy. When representatives are legally elected, we have to stand by that. That's how our rules work. So you're big on pushing the burden of responsibility onto everyone, but offer no solutions.

Are you really responsible for people not reading and thinking? If so, I'd like to hear what you are going to do about it.

[demodonkey]

18. No we did NOT elect many of these people. Elections have been (and still can be) stolen.

Pay attention, or ignore the problems with our elections at your peril.

[MadHound]

21. Excellent post, something that I've been saying for awhile,

Yet too many people don't want to face up to this hard fact. Yes, corporations and government actions can be blamed for some of this mess, but peoples' lack of personal responsibility and restraint needs to be addressed also, something that I'm happy to see Obama at least talking about.

[seabeyond]

22. me too. i point it out strongly to my kids. growing up in the environment they are

i feel it is one of the biggest lessons to give to my boys, ... thru example and explanation on a regular basis

[ananda]

23. Did WE actually elect Bush?

Everything I've learned says he lost
both elections...

[Earth_First]

24. This "we" had absolutely nothing to do with this...

I won't own up for shit.

[BlooInBloo]

26. Sorry. I've tried that. On DU, nothing is ever the electorate's fault.

[DS1]

27. If personal responsibility meant anything, that Thain guy would have fired himself

and got a job vacuuming banks after hours.

[Senator]

28. But That Is Group (Non-Personal) Responsibility You Are Alleging

Which is just a form of personal rationalization.

And when it comes to torture, not even that.

--

[JerseygirlCT]

29. True enough

with the one caveat: I don't agree that we elected Bush - either time.

But the problem *is* wider than that, so I agree on your overall point.

[seabeyond]

32. didnt elect... but we the people didnt put foot down, wink

that was mine too, lol

[leftstreet]

33. A Blame the Victim Thread! Haven't had one of these in a day or two

:bounce:

[MercutioATC]

40. I'm not blaming, I'm assigning responsibility.

Actually, I'm not even assigning it. That's already been done. I'm just pointing out that we as a society created this problem and we as a society have to realize that if we're going to come out of this in one piece.

[readmoreoften]

35. We "vote" for a choice between two people who represent the same exact interests.

Please. The only thing we're responsible for is not risking our lives to rise up and change the system.

[U4ikLefty]

41. Hear, Hear!!!

:applause:

[Suspicious]

54. Exactly right.

:thumbsup:

[Orwellian_Ghost]

43. Nonsense

That's just scarcely camouflaged right-wing nonsense akin to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" without identifying who owns the boots and who stole the straps.

Better to look into systemic and institutional factors rather than blaming the victims.

[MercutioATC]

46. Who gave them the boots? Who failed to guard the straps?

That's the issue. Failure to take responsibility got us here by enabling those who sought personal gain at the expense of the rest of us. Refusing to recognize that responsibility dooms us to continued failure.

[MadHound]

47. So, it's blaming the victims when they go out and max out their cards

Buying shit like ATV's? It's blaming the victims when they go out and buy new SUV's? It's blaming the victims when they go out and get a no money down, ARM, all for a house that they can't afford?

Yeah, right, whatever.

Yes, there have been systemic and institutional factors at work here. But the simple fact is that for the past fifteen years a lot of our fellow citizens have decided that they're going to live the lives of the rich and famous, and that they'll do so by putting it on their credit cards, getting into foolish mortgage situations, or cashing out their house like it was an ATM. That's not the fault of the system or institutions, that's the fault of the individual for making the poor decision to spend like a drunken sailor.

[Lorien]

44. It's different for Democrats and Republicans

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/get_latest_product_view.aspx?isCreateAndBuy=true&pr=Front&colorNo=0&showBleed=true

[Profprileasn]

49. Yup

And we racked up our credit cards and refinanced our houses at the height of the market to use the equity for whatever. When our roll of the dice didn't pay off & our mortgages are now more than the house is worth, we are screaming for help. Yes we all need to take responsibility.

We all need to use money as money. Pay what we can afford. We need a gov't that does the same.

[Joe Fields]

56. not true

Since we can never REALLY know what is truly in the heart of any person we elect to represent us, most of the blame lies with those representatives who betray the public trust.

Our only culpability is in buying into what the msm feeds us, which shapes our minds when we go to the voting booths.