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With the benefit of hindsight...Mr. Greenspan?

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 07:16 PM
Original message
With the benefit of hindsight...Mr. Greenspan?
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 07:17 PM by underpants
After his prepared remarks, Greenspan took a question from Jacob Frenkel, the former Israeli central banker and vice chairman of the insurance giant American International Group, which was bailed out last year by the federal taxpayers to the tune of more than $100 billion.

With the benefit of hindsight, Frenkel wanted to know, what were the decisions that should have been made to prevent the calamity?

The question was a perfect launching pad for an admission of some degree of personal responsibility. But Greenspan didn’t go there. Instead, he said it was the very success of the Federal Reserve — largely under his tenure — that created the opportunities for “asset bubbles,” like the ones in technology stocks and the housing market. The very effort of creating “balance in the economy,” he said, creates “periods of euphoria.”

“Is there a way to suppress that? I’m not sure,” Greenspan continued. “There has never been, to my knowledge, any historical evidence that that has happened.”

Translation: Sure, I didn’t stop the market mania and subsequent crash, but no one else did, either. Besides, it’s probably impossible anyway. Before returning to his seat, Greenspan added dryly, “I wish those who think it’s possible well.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18980.html

The Greenspan Doctrine – a view that modern, technologically advanced financial markets are best left to police themselves – has an increasingly vocal detractor. His name is Alan Greenspan.

As Fed chairman, Mr. Greenspan was a frequent opponent of market regulation. Sophisticated markets, he argued, had become increasingly adept at carving up risk themselves and dispersing it widely to investors and financial institutions best suited to manage it.

The retired chairman has had to revise his views. In comments at a New York Economic Club dinner late Tuesday, the retired Fed chairman steered clear of much self-reflection on his role in the credit boom. But he did take a new swipe at the market’s self-correcting tendencies and bowed his head to a new period of increased regulation. (See C-Span video.)

“All of the sophisticated mathematics and computer wizardry essentially rested on one central premise: that enlightened self interest of owners and managers of financial institutions would lead them to maintain a sufficient buffer against insolvency by actively monitoring and managing their firms’ capital and risk positions,” the Fed chairman said. The premise failed in the summer of 2007, he said, leaving him “deeply dismayed.”

Self-regulation is still a first-line of defense, Mr. Greenspan said. But after the financial collapse of 2007 and 2008, “I see no alternative to a set of heightened federal regulatory rules of behavior for banks and other financial institutions.” He said hoped hoped it would come in the form of tougher capital requirements for banks.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/02/17/greenspan-vs-the-greenspan-doctrine/

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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. “All of the sophisticated mathematics and computer wizardry..."
ignored greed.

It's hard to program a computer to understand human nature.

Garbage in, Garbage out.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I cna't find the quote yet (no transcript on C-Span) but before that question
he twice, at least twice, said that this current situation was "totally unexpected"

I ran across this on C-Span just as he started saying it

"totally unexpected"
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm beginning to wonder if something happpened...
that we haven't been told about.

Or that this whole mess is part of some nefarious plan.

One thing for sure, the markets and the economy run on the confidence of the investor and the consumer. We have seen a lot of statements like, "If we don't get this bill signed by next week, the end of the world as we know it will occur." This destroys confidence and makes the problem we face worse.

So either we got totally blindsided by something truly unexpected or the politics of fear are being used to herd us in some predetermined direction.

But there is no doubt that we had a long period of unregulated capitalism. History shows that capitalism and greed often go hand in hand.

But there is always the possibility that we did rely far too much on computer programs. Computers programmed correctly can design and analyze many different things, but sometimes you can be to confident in their accuracy.

I remember that in 2004, I evacuated the Tampa Bay area of Florida because all the forecasters and their computer programs said that the Tampa Bay area was here Hurricane Charley would land. I drove to my daughters house near Fort Myers Florida.

I was siting in her living room watching the weather forecasters and wondering how much damage the hurricane would do to my home in Tampa. The Hurricane was in the Gulf just a little southwest of Fort Myers.

Suddenly the weather forecaster said, "The hurricane appears to have changed direction.".

Indeed it had. The storm landed in south Florida about 60 miles from where I was. A hell of a lot of people were caught off guard as they had relied on the forecasters and their computer programs. To top it all off, the storm was much more intense than predicted.

So it's my bet that economic advisers and experts had to much faith in their computers and failed to correctly predict the path and the intensity of our economic storm. They predicted a category 2 recession and suddenly found themselves facing a category 4 recession bordering on a category 5 depression. This was the "totally unexpected" event Greenspan mentioned.



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B o d i Donating Member (543 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thursday, September 18th, 2008, there was a $550 billion drawdown on the money markets
See this clip with Rep Kanjorski (D-Penn) from C-SPAN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NMu1mFao3w

What I haven't seen yet is who took all that money out all at once.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I was just about to post that. That was startling
Everyone could have been lots of people and corporations who have lots LOTS of money in US banks. It was money market funds as well as cash.

"...or else $5.5 Trillion will be pulled out..." something like that. Startling.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The video you linked to is important for everyone to watch...
I'm heard some rumors of the $550 billion drawdown IN ONE HOUR, but this is the first time I've heard the details.

I wonder how and why this happened and who did it.

These are some very important questions that need to be answered and we definitely need to prevent this from happening again.

Thanks for the video.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. VIDEO here
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Mr. Suddenly Mortal
accepts no responsibility for his own interest rate decisions which were the primary fuel for both the technology bubble and the housing bubble.

>“All of the sophisticated mathematics and computer wizardry essentially rested on one central premise: that enlightened self interest of owners and managers of financial institutions would lead them to maintain a sufficient buffer against insolvency by actively monitoring and managing their firms’ capital and risk positions,” the Fed chairman said. The premise failed in the summer of 2007, he said, leaving him “deeply dismayed.”

perhaps part of the premise on which they rested was that the 'enlightened self-interest' of a certain Chairman of the Federal Reserve was not to deliberately create asset bubbles in order to make himself look like a financial diety?

The only public speaking this guy should be doing is through a criminal lawyer. That he is walking around and free testifies to the persistent utter cluelessness of the authorities.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Ah, our old friend enlightened self-interest
Cf. "The goodness of our hearts." Somehow, it isn't very reassuring to think that the greediest motherfuckers on the planet, left to their own devices, will act to benefit the most people.
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Irish Girl Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. people are still listening to that gremlin?
Grr. Greenspan lost all credibility with me after this remark early in his career.

"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. ... This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." - Alan Greenspan

After such a statement, it would seem rather odd he'd go on to become one of the most powerful men in the world by controlling such a huge paper currency fiat empire through the privately run Federal Reserve. Talk about a strange and rather extreme change of heart. Greenspan also recommended ARMs while simultaneously flooding cheap credit into the markets - knowing the Fed rate was going to raise soon thereafter, causing massive defaults.

He knew exactly what would happen, set the trap and took full advantage of human nature, ie, greed. I truly despise this man and surely believe there is a toasty place in hell for him and his ilk.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Bernanke today
And he even indulged in a bit of economist humor when talking about the paradox of encouraging people to spend even though overspending caused the problem: "Somebody once called this the Augustinian principle, which says something like, 'Let me be moral, but not quite yet.' "
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/18/AR2009021803173.html
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