Would You Chuck Your Health Insurance If The Feds Offered Universal Plans?

[stopbush]

Question for the currently insured: if Obama was to come up with a single-payer, universal health system like the ones in Canada or France, and if you had the option of buying into the Fed plan at a discount typical to what single-payer plans offer or keeping your current insurance, what would you do?

Trying to keep it simple because accounting for all the variables is difficult.

[Richard Steele]

1. What health insurance?

:shrug:

[elocs]

10. You took the words right out of my keyboard.

I love watching the medical shows where they say "if this happens you should go to your doctor" or "check with your doctor before trying or doing this". What a joke.

[Richard Steele]

137. Like 50 million of my fellow Americans, I'm currently on a "Single Prayer" healthCare plan...

I'm working 29 hours a week for minimum wage,
and I'm PRAYING that I don't ever need medical care.

[Ohio Joe]

75. My exact thought as well - nt

[Withywindle]

126. I know, right?

I had a job. It's gone. So's my insurance. I'm looking into buying catastrophic coverage just so I don't bankrupt my parents if I get hit by a bus.

[GoCubsGo]

142. Same here.

I lost my job almost 2 years ago. I had a temp job for a while, and was able to pay for crappy temporary insurance. With my savings almost gone, and still no new job in sight, I can't even afford the crappy temporary insurance. So, I'm taking my chances. But, even when I had insurance, I still would gladly have given it up for universal insurance.

[EFerrari]

132. I'd have to borrow someone else's and chuck that!

[tabbycat31]

144. ditto

I lost my job in June and was not about to pay $700/month for Cobra

[Barack_America]

2. Oh yeah. My health insurance is crap. nt

[Hawkeye-X]

3. My insurance is Medicare.

No Part D.

I'll enroll to Part D, if the Obama administration clamps down the skyrocketing prices of the meds and ALLOW importation from Canada, Mexico and other places where we can get our meds legal and cheap.

Hawkeye-X

[TahitiNut]

48. Ditto.

:thumbsup:

[wolfgangmo]

143. Change the laws of part D

And allow the government to negotiate with the pharma crooks, er, companies. Just like they do in Mexico and Canada. Not negotiating with pharma companies is like going to a car lot and telling the salesman that you will pay whatever they think is fair.

We might as well have our pants around our ankles.

[Muttocracy]

4. I don't know what "a discount typical to what single-payer plans offer" is

but I'd be happy to switch if it was anywhere close to what I pay now or cheaper.

[prairierose]

5. What health insurance?

I think if I had typical health insurance I would switch in a minute but I have always had jobs that did not include health insurance and buying it alone has always been impossible for me.

[Cant trust em]

6. Mine is paid through my employer.

Should I vote in this survey?

[stopbush]

28. Yes, you should.

My employer pays for my insurance @ $565 per month. I have a wife and two kids. To add them to my insurance would cost me $900 per month, so we've currently got her and the 2 kids on the COBRA from her job - that COBRA costs us $756 a month. When I was unemployed, she worked full time at her job - our insurance for a family of four then cost $350 a month. Now, I work full time and she works part time at the same job she had before. Being part time, she doesn't qualify for regular coverage from the same employer. Ergo, we have her on COBRA for 18 months after which we'll have to bite the bullet and put the whole family on my insurance which will cost us an extra $150 a month. All told, our insurance will run $1400 a month when you add my employer's contribution and what I'll need to pay.

I have had to switch jobs numerous times over the past decade. When I have been employed for extended periods my employers have switched health plans annually to get better terms from various insurers. As an employee in such a situation, you're always getting screwed because you need to have X amount of time in a plan to qualify for certain services (like my dental plan - I need to be on in for 12 months before I can get my kids braces). There's also the Catch 22 of the deductible. You have one insurance from Jan - June, then your employer switches coverage and you're on another insurance from Jul - Dec. If you met your deductible in the first 6 months, it means nothing to the new insurance which resets the deductible clock in July...and then again in January. It's a vicious circle.

Does the above sound like a system that was thought up by a group of chimps with typewriters? Yep, it does.

I'd prefer a government program that I take with me wherever I go and that is there for me if I'm unemployed. THAT alone makes me long for a government run and sponsored option.

The big pisser is I'm never sick. I only see a doctor for the occasional check-up (and I'm always the picture of good health) or if I get a bad cold or the flu. I see my dentist 4 times a year for cleanings (he gives me four for the price of the two covered in my plan) and I had all of my old fillings replaced this year with resin because he gave me a great deal on that as well. My wife is a cancer survivor, so we have to keep her insurance going. I keep me and the kids going basically to cover anything catastrophic that might arise. But for me, health insurance is sort of like my life insurance - I pay for it, but I never use it.

I guess the peace of mind that comes with having insurance is worth a lot. I just would prefer it not cost me so much.

[Cant trust em]

30. I don't even know what my employer pays

I'm 28 and single. Health care isn't a huge priority for me right now. I'm lucky.

[wolfgangmo]

145. Speaking as an employer.

If I didn't have to pay health insurance I could afford to pay my employees more money.

How would you like that?

[thecrow]

7. What would it cost?

I lost my job, so it'd have to be free or I couldn't do it.

[sandnsea]

8. Would you pay $8 for cigs

and double the price of beer, pop, chips... if you got free health care?

[Cerridwen]

9. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? n/t

[tkmorris]

12. Absolutely nothing of course

Just an attempt to derail the discussion would be my guess.

[Cerridwen]

18. Wouldn't surprise me. n/t

[sandnsea]

33. Which says more about you than it does about me n/t

[OmahaBlueDog]

15. Sin taxes are among the many methods of choice for underwriting single payer

It has the dual benefits of raising funds while simultaneously discurageing unhealthful behavior.

[Cerridwen]

16. So you, and poster to whom I replied, do not understand the funding

for HR 676?

We already pay for UHC. We don't receive it. The money is already there.

[OmahaBlueDog]

22. OK, I'll bite - explain this funding miracle to me

[Cerridwen]

27. Simple. Rather than pay the insurance companies, who use

approx. 30% of the monies received for overhead and advertising, the same monies are paid into a "public trust" (for lack of a better term) and are paid out to the commons.

go to this link then scroll down to this .pdf document that explains in detail what I just (ham-handedly) described.

It's not what we pay; it is to whom we pay it.

[sandnsea]

36. And if we tax fun things

like cigs, booze, gambling, junk food - then we've got a two for one deal. It's not a negative really, it's a positive. We've been selling these taxes the wrong way.

[Cerridwen]

38. Gambling?! I was born and grew up in Las Vegas, NV.

Gambling is fine. LOL In the free market, capitalistic society in which I grew up, it provides a viable tax base. (Do with that as you will.)

Yes, we have been selling these taxes in the wrong way. If you tax a behavior into oblivion, it no longer supports your tax base. 'Scuse me? Then from whence does the funding come?

[sandnsea]

39. Gambling went away?

That's funny. I thought it was spreading across the country.

[Cerridwen]

42. Yeah, it went the way of abortion, and smoking, and pot smoking...

and other "evil" things we've tried to legislate away. Some things will continue regardless of the laws. Prohibition proved that, I believe.

Cigarette smoking is gradually on the decline; because it was legislated? Or because people realized the tobacco companies were including a whole lotta stuff that had little to do with tobacco and a whole lot to do with addiction and destroying the health of smokers?

BTW, prostitution won't go away, either.

What you are seeing spreading across the country has little to do with gambling and much to do with separating suckers from their money; much like the stock market and banking.

If you don't know the difference, you'll have to travel back in time to the "old" Las Vegas before the bean counters and corporations took hold.

[cabluedem]

59. Lots of people are addicted to gambling and worse states support it too. nt

[salinen]

67. So who are you?

the mayor of Las Vegas? Just funnin.

[Delphinus]

117. HR 676

The only way out of this health insurance mess.

[sandnsea]

32. Or plain old paying for health care

Maybe we've been approaching those "sin" taxes from the wrong perspective. Maybe they're 2 for 1 taxes, sin all you want and get health care to boot!

[Cerridwen]

34. An interesting thing begins to happen when you use "sin" taxes...

people start refusing to pay the price for "sin."

*Then* how do you pay for what the "sin" taxes once paid for?

[sandnsea]

37. If you don't make it a negative

just an accepted thing that everybody is paying taxes on something - and it pays for truly free health care - then people aren't going to resent it at all because everybody is still sharing in the payment.

[Cerridwen]

40. Or, you could read my post #27 and understand that we don't

need to add additional taxes but just take the money we already pay and appropriate it appropriately.

(tongue twister alert)

edit for freaking spelling

[sandnsea]

43. What about the people who don't currently pay?

Why not tax everything that contributes to sickness and accidents - and just let health care be free?

Do you know how many non-profit health care delivery systems there already are in this country?

Do you know how many non-profit insurance companies there already are?

[Cerridwen]

44. Who exactly, do you think doesn't pay?!

We ALL pay. Whether it is in higher insurance premiums or exposure to disease or the death of loved ones.

How dare you think that someone who doesn't pay an insurance policy premium for services they may or may not receive doesn't pay. We ALL pay.

Someone doesn't go to the doctor and get treated and spreads their "disease" to their co-workers. You think their co-workers don't pay? Someone goes to an emergency room rather than to a "primary care physician" you think you don't pay in increased premiums and health care costs?

What planet do you live on in which the action of your neighbors don't impact you?

[sandnsea]

46. Oh whatever - you're not listening n/t

[Cerridwen]

50. And you, "know the price of everything, and the value of nothing." n/t

[sandnsea]

51. Health care 100% funded by cig, alcohol, junk food tax

What the hell would be wrong with that?

[tkmorris]

55. It leaves out a million things that also are unhealthy?

Further, we all need health care. Even people who do EVERYTHING right, and have no unhealthy habits at all. It's not a zero sum game.

[sandnsea]

103. Free health care for all

Funded by cig, alcohol, junk food, sugar, gasoline, anything else that causes people to use the health care system.

$7 a pack for cigarettes AND free health care is a great deal. $1.50 candy bar or pop, and you get free health care, great deal.

People who do "everything right", well there's no such thing, but they get sick too. They'll get free health care without ever having to have paid for it! Really Great Deal!

[varelse]

96. What indeed?

Black markets which fund crime syndicates, declining tax base as consumption falls through the floor, leading to more and more "sins" being taxed to keep the funding levels even with expenditures, leading to a taxpayer-fueled re-taking of the goverment by the people who would love to drown it in a bathtub.

Just sayin.

[eridani]

133. The same thing that would be wrong with a stupid tax on bad elecrical wiring

--parents who let their kids play with matches, and people who store oily rags in the basement in order to fund fire departments.

[Thothmes]

140. What happens to the program

I people quite smoking and stop drinking?

[wolfgangmo]

149. If it were the only funding source it would be a disaster.

And the reason why is that sin taxes are notoriously fickle and wax and wane from year to year.

Cig tax income has been declining for years. Booze is pretty stable, and likely marijuana would be as well, but even they are too fickle. Universal health care needs and deserves a stable funding source.

This is not to say that they couldn't be a secondary part of any funding equation just as long as the system is not based on those sources. Does this make sense to you,, or am I not listening too?

[wolfgangmo]

148. Non-profit is not equal to no profit.

Having sat on a board of directors of a non-profit that made a tidy profit, I can tell you that non-profit doesn't mean no-profit. It means that they must return the money to the entity rather than disperse it to investors. So they hire more people, pay them more, fund expansions , hire outsourcing , and a host of other ways to hide the profit. Nepotism is another way they deal with the profits.

Some non-profits make a tidy sum for themselves and their friend and relatives. The fact is that many of these entities have no oversight over them and that they are horrible bloated and inefficient at everything EXCEPT making sure that YOU don't get the care you contracted for.

The facts are incontrovertible. Single payer systems consistently deliver superior care to more people at less cost in a more timely manner.

[bvar22]

83. The alcohol, tobacco, and gambling industries....

...are some of the most profitable in the USA.

...so much for your "theory" on sin taxes.

I would propose adding legal and regulated prostitution and marijuana to this tax base.

[sandnsea]

104. You think it could work?

I think it could work. We could add gasoline too, because of the number of people hurt in car accidents.

We've thought of the "sin" tax in the completely wrong way, at least as it pertains to health care.

[bvar22]

116. Yes, it could work.

It would require an all out marketing campaign similar to the one the corporations used to sell "Free Trade" to the American people.

A mass marketing campaign pointing out the Economic benefits could sell, especially when contrasted with the current hideous costs of the failed efforts to keep them illegal.....

[eridani]

131. JEEBUS!!! We do ;NOT need to spend any more money on health care than we are now spending!!

With single payer, we'd have access to all the money that is now wasted on private insurance premiums, and therefore would not need sin taxes. Call the money we'd pay a "premium" instead of a "tax" and voila! no new taxes at all.

We are ALREADY PAYING for universal health care; we just aren't GETTING it!

[dsc]

60. I am presuming that those taxes are a proposal he thinks a good idea

[sandnsea]

105. He?

After 5 years... he???

Thanks though.

If the numbers work, and I have no idea if they do, this is a friggin' brilliant idea.

[leftstreet]

17. Would you pay more for matches if you got free fire department services?

Oh, wait...

[Cerridwen]

19. .

:rofl:

Thank you.

[leftstreet]

25. ..

yeah, really.

:rofl:

[tbyg52]

68. Yes.

Of course, I buy very little of anything on your list.... ;)

[sandnsea]

122. That's the beauty of it

If the figures work - why wouldn't somebody who smoked, drank, or ate obsessively pay the tax if they could keep their bad habit - and - get free health care? And why would the healthy people object?

[wolfgangmo]

147. Are you suggesting that universal health care be funded by sin taxes?

If so you are nuts. It needs a stable funding source, like rational progressive income tax based on all tangible income sources and not just employment

[OmahaBlueDog]

11. It'd depend on price and quality, like anything

Currently, I work for a company based in another state. If I worked in that state, I could get a pretty decent HMO for the family for about $175 a paycheck (pretax, bi weekly). As it is now, the HMO network isn't in my state. I have to buy the more expensive PPO coverage. The company cuts me somewhat of a break, so it comes to something like $265 (it'd be just under $300 otherwise) a paycheck. Having a PPO is nice (no referrals, but I pay a higher specialist copay), but I wouldn't mind having the $2500 back.

Also, I'm not crazy about my carrier (although I've had worse). I'd prefer Blue Cross because their networks are generally far more extensive in my experience. If I could get BC/BS from the feds for the same price, I'd probably do it.

Also, buying your own healthcare adds a certain degree of freedom to your career choices. If it were affordable to get single payer, there are business opportunities I wouldn't even consider now that might get a look.

[Patchuli]

13. Our health insurance is part of my spouse's

retirement package so we're not paying but it has a higher co-pay that previously. We'd be interested in the single-payer option...

[SoCalDem]

57. The "employer part" HAS to be converted into cash when it's part of the retirement or salary

and then it's worth it:)

[Patchuli]

69. I don't know, he worked 30 years for this bene

that was supposed to be guaranteed for life. Then two years ago, they told us we had to start paying for it. I just don't understand how you can change a contract after it's been fulfilled! Either way, we are much luckier than some and we know it. I really want to see everyone in the U.S. able to get basic decent care. No one should get ill because of lack of insurance and I sure would like to see the insurance companies' hands out of the cookie jar. Health care, NOT health insurance!

P.S. I adore that kitty picture! You can see my 'Valentine' Cosmo in my post!

[SeattleGirl]

14. Hell yeah. My boss pays for mine, but I have to pay nearly $500

a month for MrSG's coverage.

[tularetom]

20. I have medicare plus a supplement

Is it any good? Dunno, I haven't a claim on it in the 2 years I've had it. Nor has my wife.

But I can tell you it ain't cheap. The premiums for my supplement are paid by my former employer, but I have to pay for my wife's and it runs a couple hundred a month.

But that isn't all. Last year they means tested Medicare based on your 2006 adjusted gross income and unfortunately that was the year I sold a piece of property and had a large capital gain. So we both now get dinged an extra $192 per month for medicare part B. Even though our income has dropped to pre 2006 levels.

So I hope when I do need it it comes through for me.

I can say this. The last year of my dad's life he spent close to 5 months in the hospital and ran up approximately 300k in medical bills. Didn't cost a dime. Medicare and his supplement picked up the entire cost. So yeah, on the assumption that a single payer system would operate like Medicare and they'd let me into the system in place of my supplement, I'd jump at the chance.

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. For most people the question is academic. The employer would chuck the existing plan. n/t

[leftstreet]

23. An interesting question might be "would you leave your current job?"

..if you didn't need it for the medical insurance.

Lots of people in that position.

[OmahaBlueDog]

26. A lot of people would

..and many more would consider starting a business for themselves or becoming an IC instead of an employee if they could get affordable, quality healthcare.

[OmahaBlueDog]

24. Not necessarily. If they continue to get the tax write off, big companies will probably keep it

..short term, anyway.

[Cerridwen]

29. Depends on the amount of "tax write off" versus the amount paid in

as to whether or not it presents a positive or a negative on their financial statement.

Is the health insurance contribution %100 tax "write off"? Or only a portion?

[Cleita]

31. I have Medicare now and can testify it's far superior to any private plan

I had previous to it. Why? Because I'm not afraid to use it for health care like I was with the private plans always hesitant because I wondered if I wouldn't be renewed or if my premium would go way up, or if I changed jobs my health care coverage would be less or non-existent. Also, it travels with me no matter where I go in the USA. I don't have to worry about getting approvals for emergency care or referrals from my primary doc if I land elsewhere than where I usually get my medical care.

[handmade34]

35. I just did, in anticipation...

for the last three years I was paying over half of my gross income (about $16,000) to make sure my kids and I were covered (BCBS). All of us are pretty healthy but went to doctors a few times for misc things (possibly $5000.worth of care)... it was a constant fight to get BCBS to pay at times with constant paperwork and questions and such and co-pays ran in the hundreds. I still owe over $1200. Last December at open enrollment time I quit! Over half of that money now goes to federal taxes, .....I wouldn't mind paying the taxes, if I knew we all(meaning all citizens) got good health care. I am fed up and angered by a system that is inadequate, demoralizing, greedy, expensive, careless, etc....

[Laelth]

41. Even bad insurance is better than no insurance.

Single-payer just makes sense. That's why the rest of the industrialized world does it.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Occam Bandage]

45. Switch? I'm uninsured at the moment. nt

[dkf]

47. No, because my employer is covering 100% and my co pays

are $14.

Then again I have no idea how good my coverage is if something really bad happens because I haven't had to use it in that circumstance.

[Hekate]

49. Other: If California keeps going down the toilet, Mr. H may have neither a job nor insurance...

He's got several more years before retirement, at which point we can get MediCare, which needs some improvement after Bush "fixed" it. If he has to retire before 65, COBRA is a bad joke. But at the very least, MediCare is there.

As for my daughter and her family, I'm sure she'd take single payer health care in a heartbeat.

Hekate

[Balbus]

52. Uh, not a chance.

Let the government have a say with my medical decisions? Fuck that.

[strategery blunder]

53. Let a private health insurance bean counter have a say in my med decisions?

Fuck that.

No substantive difference.

Medical decisions should be between doctor and patient--most HMOs do NOT allow this, especially for major health issues that crop up.

[Balbus]

91. Eh, sounds like you got a shitty insurance - change.

[Maru Kitteh]

112. That's not an option for the vast majority of people - but you probably already knew that.

So what - fuck me if I don't have the options available to me that you do? You got yours, right?

[strategery blunder]

125. LOL.

It can happen with any insurance, not just the "shitty insurance."

It is a risk policyholders take when dealing with any for-profit company.

Insurance reduces the odds of medical bankruptcy in a catastrophic event from 100% to maybe 10% (a pretty standard denied-claims rate)...but anything short of 0% is NOT peace of mind.

Until it is illegal for an insurance company to deny claims made in good faith, in the absence of reasonable suspicion of fraud, private insurance CANNOT provide me peace of mind that it will be there when I need it. No matter the company.

Take the profit motive out of healthcare.

[wolfgangmo]

151. Change to what?

Another shitty private insurance plan that WILL NOT cover me when I need them most?

Go back under your bridge, troll.

[wolfgangmo]

150. I own a medical clinic

Insurance companies interfere in ALL medical decisions. Period. Big or small makes not difference to them. Patients don't even know they are getting their choices cut off at the knees.

[Still Sensible]

88. That is the scare tactic the right wing will use

they are already using it to falsely rail against a small component of the stimulus plan. They are saying that the provisions to computerize medical records is just that first step toward the evil "socialized medicine."

My question is what is the difference between that scary possibility and the insurance system now? Where policies and protocols are set and managed by people that are no less "bureaucrats" than those you fear. In my mind, the government option would at least have medical and health care specialists on those boards setting those policies, instead of the "bean-counter" dominated committees calling the shots today.

[Balbus]

93. Eh, sounds like you got a shitty insurance - change.

[Still Sensible]

111. I admit my insurance is not as good as it used to be

but that doesn't change my basic premise. I grew up an Army brat and watched an efficient and comprehensive single payer system in action. I know the administrative cost comparisons between the current health insurance industry and Medicare, for example. So I would love to see a government operated system. Look, both approaches have pluses and minuses. Both approaches have the capacity for fraud and abuse.

Can we politically get to a single payer system? I have my doubts that is possible anytime soon. So at this point I'll be happy if we can move the country to universal insurance coverage. The bottom line to me is getting to a situation where everybody can receive necessary care and is protected from financial ruin from catastrophic medical care costs.

[bobbolink]

89. Actually educate yourself about the reality before spouting RW untruths? Fuck that.

:crazy:

[Balbus]

95. I agree that sounds silly.

Don't know why it's relevant to this conversation, though. :shrug:

[bobbolink]

97. If you gave it any thought, you might consider that KNOWLEDGE BEFORE DECISIONS is a good thing.

[Balbus]

99. Well, then I've decided.

I still don't want the fucking government making my medical decisions for me.

And to the best of my KNOWLEDGE, that is my DECISION.

[bobbolink]

101. Too bad your knowledge is so flawed.

Ignorance isn't a good health decision.

[Balbus]

102. Maybe so, but my health insurance is great.

[bobbolink]

106. And you're the only one who counts. To hell with everyone else. Great "progressive"

or "compassionate conservative" or whatever it is.

AND, the ignorance of what Universal Single Payer Health Care actually IS still remains.

Try educating yourself, as I suggested to begin with.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

130. The question was about his personal decision, so yes he is the only one that counts.

[wolfgangmo]

154. I wonder..;

What will troll boy do if a lower cost, better system is offered.Will he still try to keep his old expensive, crappy insurance and stand on principle or will be flow with the times?

What will you do Dave?

Sure I respect personal choice, but that doesn't mean that I think all those choices are worthy of respect.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

158. I will look at the options available and decide which one is better for me and my family.

[eridani]

135. If you have never been expensively sick, you don't know shit about your insurance

Just like you really have no idea how good your fire department is unless you have a fire.

[wolfgangmo]

152. You can't tell me one example of where that happens.

Not one. I have colleagues in Canada, the UK, and Australia. At all clinics, the doctors call the shots. Doctors in the US who accept insurance do not.

Your entire argument is a straw man argument because it does not exist.

Back under your bridge.

[Evoman]

129. What makes you think the government has a say?

In most countries that have universal healthcare, decisions are between the doctor and the patient. The government just pays for it.

[eridani]

134. That's pure horseshit. In Canada, there is no interference by the government in medical decisions

--unlike here, where there is no such thing as a private insurer who does NOT do that.

[exboyfil]

54. I don't think there are enough dollars in sin taxes to fund

Universal Health Care. If we got as good as the Germans, then we would expect about 16% of our income to go towards health care (it is currently 24% for us - a huge difference). The German's percentage of income continues to creep up so it will be interesting to see where they ultimately end up.

I would like to see a payroll tax like Medicare but at 8%/8% for our health care. This payroll tax will be Universal and everyone will be placed in the government plan (perhaps with a series of non-profit insurance companies like Germany but pricing/management in some central authority). If you don't do it all at once with everyone you will continue to have the problems we are currently seeing. The minimum wage should be raised to cover the employee's 8% share. The employee will be left to negotiate with their employer about getting raises to cover their 8% share if they currently have health insurance.

Everyone goes into the system - Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare, Federal plans, state plans, union plans - they all go in. We will have the goal to get an additional 8% out of health care.

We use the same cost cutting techniques that are exercised in Canada and Germany (perhaps not the UK since their health professionals are state employees). Some examples include using Canada's price sheets to negotiate drug prices with drug companies (no reason the Canadians should pay less than we do). Fixed payments to doctors instead of payment per patient like the German system (not sure exactly how this will work out but the Germans do it).

[SoCalDem]

56. "Universal" only works when employers are FORBIDDEN to offer it

As long as a number of people are able to "opt out", the pool of the rest of the people will be too diluted..

It's got to be all in or all out..That;s the problem we have NOW..there are too many fragmented segments of people in various plans..

[slipslidingaway]

124. Exactly!!! n/t

[pinto]

58. I'm on Medicare. Works for me.

:kick:

[Vinca]

61. I sound like an echo. What health insurance? nt

[Cairycat]

62. Is dental care included?

We have decent coverage through my husband's employer, though the premiums we pay take almost 16% of his gross income, and dental is not included. With all dental costs being out of pocket, we pretty much don't go to the dentist unless it's an emergency.

If universal coverage ever happens (seeming less and less possible) I hope dental care is included. Information about how oral health is essential do overall health keeps coming out, so I hope that aspect isn't neglected.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

128. And eye exams and glasses too!

I cannot do anything without my eyeglasses. They are absolutely essential. I have worn glasses since I was six years old and I needed them before then. I'm very nearsighted.

[wolfgangmo]

153. In Canada

You can get supplemental insurance for dental and vision for very little money. It's amazing how a health care system based on prevention causes all the costs to come down.

[SammyWinstonJack]

63. What health insurance?

x(.

[lukasahero]

64. It would depend on what's covered in the plan... eom

[wroberts189]

65. Sounds like you need a poll as to who even has health ins. nt

[stopbush]

82. Actually, the poll was specifically asked of those currently with health insurance.

[stopbush]

dupe

[stopbush]

84. Actually, the poll was specifically asked of those currently with health insurance.

[rosesaylavee]

66. You mean the health insurance I am afraid to use

because then the premiums would go up even higher?

Yes. Would change in a heartbeat.

[cherish44]

70. I pay out of pocket for my insurance

And doesn't pay anything toward my pre-existing condition. So yeah. Sign me up.

[librechik]

71. I'm lucky, my insurance plan is decent-but I want everyone to have

a backup system. it's the humane thing to do.

[surrealAmerican]

72. We're self-employed.

We have very expensive insurance, but it covers very little.

[1776Forever]

73. My husband and I are covered under his Military Tri-Care Insurance

We would not change. It is a very good insurance and I am forever grateful that they still have it for us! If it could be offered to everyone I would be elated!
:fistbump:

[bobbolink]

90. Finally, someone who's also concerned about others!

Thank you!

:pals:

[1776Forever]

114. You are very welcome - I believe most progressives do want the best for all.

That is the best thing about Dem's I think - They realize it is better for all to have health care and be maintained in a world that would give us all a fighting chance to develop our dream.

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness " is one of the most famous phrases in the United States Declaration of Independence. These three aspects are listed among the "inalienable rights" of man.

........

Jason Linkins - Huffington Post:

Obama: Health Care Should Be A Right (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/obama-health-care-should_n_132831.html

.........

:hug: Happy Valentines Day Bobbolink:)

[mwooldri]

74. If the choice is keep what I have, or take the French system...

... then je parle français.

Heck, I'll take the UK's NHS over what I have now.

Admittedly I have a good paying job with quite a reasonable high deductible insurance plan, where my employer helps me meet said deductible. I don't have to be on a waiting list, if an operation is needed then it's done.

I however hate the notion of having to deal with medical bills, hate asking doctors offices "Do you take Aetna?" and finding out that some do not. I hate the notion of going to the doctors office with a check-book in my hand because despite what my medical card says ("Don't ask for payment at time of service") you will get some front desk clerk who insists on taking some payment otherwise you aren't seeing any doctor. I also hate the notion of having to call the health insurance administrators to OK a procedure. I worry that the trip to the emergency room isn't "Pre-Approved" (like I know I'm going to have a road traffic accident a week from next Tuesday).

Even worse than that, I hate and detest the notion that there are neighbours around me who don't have access to ANY healthcare. It's one of the reasons why my sister, a nurse in the UK's NHS system, will refuse to work here in the States because she could not stand the idea that people might be ejected (or choose to leave) a hospital sooner than needs be simply because they can't afford to pay the bill. Sure, she may work in places where you share your "room" with 8+ people, and people have waited a long time for their operation, but she'd prefer that those who absolutely need the treatment right away can get it without fear of bankruptcy court and those who need the treatment but can wait a bit (yes definitely lower quality of life but they are not going to die if that cataract removal or hip replacement isn't done right this instant) get their treatment eventually rather than not having it at all because they can't afford it.

Of course, ideally we'd have a healthcare system where everyone is required and everyone who needs access to medical care gets it without having to wait months or years for the operation. I'd rather have that in place AND for those people who can afford it, some form of private healthcare, to include things that wouldn't necessarily be covered under a national health care service (e.g. cosmetic surgery, alternative medicine, developmental procedures).

Mark.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

76. I'm already on my state's plan.

I don't know what would happen in the case of universal health care.

[marlakay]

77. We are retired but union still pays for most of it

We only pay $75 a month, have pretty good coverage and drug prices. If the gov's was better for less then I would change but only then and if I had option to come back at open enrollment if it didn't work out.

[Liberal In Texas]

119. I'm in the same boat. The gov't insuance would have to be a lot better

than what I have now. I do think a lot of companies would drop their insurance plans if this became a reality.

My big worry is that (like the Stimulus Bill) the repukes would do their best to water down coverage so it would fail.

[killbotfactory]

78. What health insurance?

What am I a millionaire? I can't afford health insurance.

[OnionPatch]

79. Yes! Because I would no longer be dependent on my job for health insurance.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to start my own business. But the health insurance is way too costly.

[Lady Effingbroke]

80. I just had it chucked for me, so, yeah.

Who can afford COBRA?

[michreject]

81. No

I like what I have just fine, thank you very much.

[Still Sensible]

85. It would depend entirely on the form the "universal"

care offered and who is bearing the cost. Current insurance cost, in my case, is borne mostly by my employer. My guess is my employer is paying about 3/4 and my contribution the remainder. So a big part of the question is what is my cost for "buying into the Fed plan" compared to the status quo.

[mountainvue]

86. I am fortunate enough to have a union job with

excellent health insurance that doesn't cost me a fortune. I believe in the universal health care idea though.

[burythehatchet]

87. I would first fashion my health insurance into a rudimentary javelin

and throw it at my insurance company plan administrator, thereby requiring her to access the universal health care system.

[seemunkee]

92. Not sure

I would have to look at it carefully. When I had my kidney removed last year I probably only paid out $200 for office visits before and after. Had a similar experience when I had a rotator repaired a couple of years before that. If I could get the same coverage then yeah I would switch.

[bobbolink]

94. Thank you for a meaningful poll... this was good. What it shows...

is that there is a HUGE need for some very in-depth education to replace the corporate talking points.

I'm disappointed that PHNP hasn't done more to really take the information to the public, and dispell the same myths that continue and creep in here.

[varelse]

98. I'd buy into the federal plan

The insurance offered through employment has a tendency to tie people to jobs they might otherwise feel free to leave. That's one chain of many I'd be happy to break. And of course, paying into and supporting a federal plan would also mean supporting health care for the unemployed, disabled, and poor who are currently uninsured or underinsured. That reason alone would compel me to switch "in a heartbeat".

[yurbud]

100. I taught community college for eight years before any of my employers offered me insurance

and even then, there's no family coverage.

I have Kaiser, which I like for one stop shopping, but I'd prefer single payer just so I know I'd continue to be covered if I lost my job.

[Catshrink]

107. Depends on what my employer goes with -- they make the decision.

But, I will say this:

NOTHING could be worse than AETNA HMO other than no insurance at all. It's hard to find a doctor that will accept it so I think of it as for emergencies. Thankfully I'm very healthy.

[McCamy Taylor]

108. I'm on Medicare, but my husband and son would drop their "high risk pool" insurance

which is overpriced and has a huge deductible.

[Maru Kitteh]

109. IN A HEARTBEAT - Took the words right out of my mouth.

We pay a small fortune for catastrophic coverage with a ridiculous deductible, which means we don't use it, of course. So we pay $xx,xxx.xx per year to NOT have healthcare just in case one of us is in a bad accident or gets cancer.

IT EFFING SUCKS.

[kcass1954]

110. In a heartbeat. (Okay, I'd have to do some arm-twisting with Mr. kcass.)

We have really good insurance. Mr. kcass is a federal employee, and we've been very satisfied with our PPO plan. The plan offered at my job is not so hot, so I opted out and instead use the $$ toward the purchase of a great dental plan. We are incredibly fortunate to have such good coverage.

Our costs (employee share, co-pays, deductibles, etc.) continue to rise. It's not so much that I mind the increases, but we don't see either more or better coverage to accompany those increases.

To some degree, we're already paying for those who don't have insurance. Why not give everyone the same coverage? Why should some of us have to suffer the indignity of using the emergency room for their medical care?

[alfredo]

113. As a service related Veteran, the VA is my "universal" healthcare, but

my wife is uninsurable so I had to put her on my Union health insurance. I can't drop that insurance for myself and only cover her because of their rules. If they do institute universal healthcare, I'd enroll her and drop the commercial insurance.

[Ewellian]

115. Other, my current insurance is fine and

it costs a lot less. (I work for a health insurance company) :hide:

[Quantess]

118. I have no health insurance.

[populistdriven]

120. i dont trust my insurance and dont want to have to fight them while sick

[RiverStone]

121. Working in education for WA state

The last few years, the state allocation for insurance (per employee) keeps falling farther behind the actual cost.

And every year, we are paying more and more out of pocket $$$ for premiums; plus higher deductibles - for less coverage! It feels like extortion from the insurance industry.

It used to be school districts could at least cover the cost of insurance --- no more.

I'd switch in a second!

[slipslidingaway]

123. Probably not....the universal single-payer HC plan depends on

Everyone participating, the profits made by private insurance companies are needed to fund the universal single-payer plan.

"...if Obama was to come up with a single-payer, universal health system like the ones in Canada or France, and if you had the option of buying into the Fed plan at a discount typical to what single-payer plans offer or keeping your current insurance, what would you do?..."

As far as I know you cannot opt out of the French and Canadian systems and just buy private insurance, so I'm not sure the question / poll as presented makes a fair comparison.

:shrug:

[wolfgangmo]

155. Opt out?

Nope. Because everyone is covered there is nothing to opt out of. Everyone is covered. There is no non-coverage.

But in both countries you can purchase supplemental insurance to cover things like chiro, naturopathic, vision, dental etc. In fact most companies offer it to their employees.

Go to Canada and get in a car accident and you will be taken care of no questions asked. While you are recovering they will get your insurance info and if you are not a Canadian citizen/resident you will get a bill which will cause you jaw to hit the floor because it is SO MUCH LESS than what is charged here .

[slipslidingaway]

159. That is why I did not understand the question in the OP...

using the other systems as examples there is no choice.

"...if Obama was to come up with a single-payer, universal health system like the ones in Canada or France, and if you had the option of buying into the Fed plan at a discount typical to what single-payer plans offer or keeping your current insurance, what would you do?"

[Withywindle]

127. Why are you assuming we have health insurance at all right now?

I don't. Bet a lot of people here don't either.

[ClayZ]

136. We have none to chuck!

We are so glad to have access to the Country Doctor! http://www.countrydoctor.org/

[sohndrsmith]

138. I can't offer a robust decision, pro or con. But my biggest concern

is the "loss-of-privacy" creep that I see as a potential (even significant) drawback - but I'm reluctant to voice this concern because I'm not sure it's entirely valid.

I am simply not comfortable with what could, potentially, happen if/when medical records, etc. become more of a component akin to Social Security or credit reporting data. It seems to me that historically, things that may be initiated with good intentions can be hijacked for use in ways that weren't initially considered, such as being part of a pre-employment verifying (background/credit checks and other screenings) that, as they stand now are entirely unregulated and (I think) have the potential to pose serious stumbling blocks to otherwise excellent hires. It is a reality that a bad credit history can prevent someone from being hired as a minimum wage cashier (I guess because the implication is that they're more inclined to steal..?). I find that ludicrous, personally.

We need universal health care, but I fear the unconsidered consequences of how aspects of this could be exploited for the wrong reasons - or certain treatment being deemed inappropriate and therefore terminated because it might not fit within the proscribed and restrictive methodology designed by politics rather than doctors. I fear medical decisions being made or misinterpreted because of this....

I think it's a legitimate concern. I hope, however, that it proves otherwise.

[wolfgangmo]

156. IT's off topic but.

As a clinic owner I cannot guarantee that electronic medical records are safe unless I control the method of storage. On the other hand medical records are routinely mailed/faxed between clinics that share patients.

I'm not sure that it will be bad, depending on how it is implemented. If only docs can get access then OK, but if private insurance companies can look at any records at will, then we are all screwed.

[DailyGrind51]

139. I work at an underpaid job because my health insurance premiums are fully employer-paid.

A universal health insurance plan that accepted applicants with pre-existing conditions (cancer history, hypertension) would enable me to seek better-paid employment without being concerned about the health benefits.

[mmonk]

141. Absolutely. There would be no reason to even consider the matter.

I'm self-employed and over 50. I know the real cost. The people that work for corporations that still have large group policies or work for the government have no idea of the true failure of the current system or that they are on borrowed time with it as less companies will be able to contain and continue the costs.

[gollygee]

146. We're some of the lucky ones with pretty good insurance

I'd have to compare the two. Also, I worry about some doctors refusing the single-payer plan? I hope that won't be an option, but I see a lot of doctors that don't accept medicaid, so there's a precedent.

[muddrunner17]

157. My health insurance is more like a health coupon.

It saves a few dollars here and there, but is still damn expensive!