New York Couple Harassed by Creditors Trying to Collect Debt Their Dead Son Owed

[Liberal_in_LA]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480048,00.html

New York Couple Harassed by Creditors Trying to Collect Debt Their Dead Son Owed

A New York couple is haunted by calls from credit agencies wanting to collect debt their dead son owed.

Roco and Laurie Crimeni's 27-year-old son Vincent collapsed and died nearly a year ago of a sudden heart attack while he was playing softball.

Since then, bill collectors have been calling and writing to his parents constantly to get them to pay his credit card debts, according to MyFOXNY.com.

“It’s like I have a knife in my heart,” Roco Crimeni told the station. “It started to heal and then the phone began to ring.”

[Juneboarder]

1. Just "news" to skirt around the REAL issues our country faces.

I'm not trying to rant here, but really... how can someone go a whole year taking collection calls for a deceased son. That is clearly illegal and there are a few basic steps that can be taken to stop the calls almost instantaneously. If the calls don't stop and they document the parents document the situation properly, they can sue the pants off the creditor along with their first born child. Any state's attorney general would fight for this as it's a clear violation of FDCPA (Fair Debt Collections Practices Act).

We really need to stick with the true news of our country/world/economy/president-elect/etc... and stop worrying about local news.

[michaz]

5. Often times it is the local news of our country that makes the true news of the country!

And you were just plain nasty. Those grieving parents may be having a difficult time coping with their loss and probably aren't really thinking straight.

[Juneboarder]

24. Let me retract what I said

about the local news. I do agree that local news does matter.

Now, let me clarify who my "nastiness" was steered towards; which would be the reporter. News like this helps to steer readers from the true news that is currently going on. Tonight is Bush's last speech. We're about to inaugurate our first black president. There is a lot more going on presently than stuff like this. I feel sorry for the family, but really. They need to take the bull by the horns here in a situation like this. May their son rest in peace and may they stick it to the creditors for their unfair collection practices. Sorry if I offended you :hi:

[Pithlet]

63. Consumer's rights is a very important issue.

In fact, there has been a steady decline in the number of reporters who have been willing to cover such stories, and we have all suffered because of this. We need to applaud and encourage every single reporter who is willing to uncover the abuses that corporations heap on us. Particularly credit card companies. A lot of the mess we're in is due to the erosion of protections, and the media barely covered any of it. We need a media that focuses on these abuses and brings them to light. No, we absolutely shouldn't tell reporters that it doesn't matter. Quite the opposite. We've suffered enough from having the abuses swept under the rug by our media. I was thrilled to see a story like this. I hope we see more. ETA a link to an article about the media's role in the decline of the consumer movement: http://www.cjr.org/feature/in_the_beginning_2.php?page=1

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

28. people don't know its illegal and collectors lie

I had to help somebody out who was getting terrorized by a collection agency over debts that had been discharged in their Chapter 7 bankruptcy, it isn't even clear if the collectors were representing the creditor or just trolling bankruptcy records for suckers, but they were extremely threatening and trying to shake down a single mother for anything they could get.

[Shardik]

2. This is GD and I don't share the opinion of the above poster.

Debt collectors have their own ring of hell.

[juno jones]

3. I knew one once

A prince, a real prince :sarcasm:

Dude made 3-4 grand a month and let his dog die of dehydration.

[jody]

4. Did the son leave any assets and were the parents executors of the estate? If yes & yes then the

calls may be legal and proper.

[Pithlet]

6. It says right in the article that he didn't. n/t

[jody]

8. I know but I also know reporters often make statements that are wrong. My guess is that he had some

assets; e.g. car, tv, computer; and the question is what happened to them.

[Pithlet]

10. Really. The article is not that long. Go ahead and read it.

And if you don't trust reporters, then I don't know what the point of even commenting on the stories are. Hey. Maybe they didn't even have a son! The whole thing is just a ruse :silly:

[jody]

11. You are so funny! If you believe the son had credit cards and zero assets you are also naive. n/t

[Pithlet]

12. People die with zero assets all the friggin time. Happens every day n/t

[jody]

16. My point is valid and if the parents are executors of the estate they have specific responsibilities

per state law.

[Pithlet]

23. Unsecured debt is not inherited. You are quite simply wrong.

So it doesn't even matter if they were executors of his will. So, unless they were cosigners or were on a joint account with him, they are not responsible. Period. Secured debt is a different story. If the debt is secured, the executor must make the payments on it or pay it off just like any other debt. If this were a secured loan, your point would be valid. But these are credit cards, which are unsecured. The credit card companies are in violation of the law.

[jody]

31. I said nothing about "unsecured debt". My question was about the disposition of the son's assets if

any.

[Pithlet]

44. But it's irrelevant. The creditors harassing him are credit card companies.

That's unsecured debt. Your contention was that the collectors may be in their rights, if the parents were executors and the poor guy had assets. Well, it doesn't matter. Credit cards eat the debt when when the card holder dies. So, who cares about the disposition of his assets. Especially since the parents said he had none! Your coming into the thread and wondering about it is a total non sequitur.

[jody]

52. Do you have a credible link proving a deceased person's credit card debt is not paid from the estate

I don't like to rely on Wikianswers but this is one assertion on the issue, "Debts, including credit cards, mortgages, and taxes of a deceased person are handled by their estate, pursuant to state probate laws and federal tax code".

[Pithlet]

53. Well, I'll be happy to go look some up for you.

But I worked for a credit card company, so I know this first hand, so I know I'll have no trouble finding it. I'll be right back.

[jody]

54. In the meantime I found the following, "However, your credit card debt can, and most likely would,

be paid by your estate. If the estate cannot pay off the debt, no one else can be held responsible for your debt unless he or she is a co-signer on the account."

See http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/debt/20050527a1.asp

No need to look any further, credit card debt is paid from an estate just like other debts and that would be handled by the executor.

[Pithlet]

55. It was the secured vs unsecured that got me. Secured debt does take precedent.

I was in the fraud control department, after all. The reason I was confused is secured debt does take priority over unsecured debt. Secured debt gets first dibs. So, if the guy had anything at all, as you suspect for some reason, by the time the credit card companies got their turn, it would probably have been long gone.

It still doesn't change the fact that the son doesn't have assets, though. Because you choose not to believe his parents doesn't make the collectors automatically right. His parents wouldn't even necessarily be his executor. How do you know he wasn't married. You're making too many assumptions in your attempt to take the creditor's side. There is no defense for what the credit card companies are doing. They don't have the right to harass them at any rate. Per the story, they've already had their lawyers contact them, and it still didn't stop. That is flat out against the law, no matter what the circumstances.

[jody]

56. I asked "Did the son leave any assets and were the parents executors of the estate? "

I made no assumption but I do not take any reporter's statements as 100% accurate.

I also don't believe the son had absolutely zero assets although they may have been of insignificant value.

The executor under state law should have settled the matter but perhaps the matter was not handled by a probate court at all.

If creditors are hounding the parents after the estate has been settled by probate court, I would hope the parents can force them to stop.

[Pithlet]

57. Then why even read the news?

Why not take it even further. Just don't even believe they had a son. It was their debt, and they're just lying about it. Reporters, those overly sensantional suckers :crazy:

Why on earth would you believe that he had no assets? What would prompt you to believe such a thing? That makes no sense. Insignificant value. Well, duh. Yeah, they're not going to come get your dirty underwear. Please.

They DID try to force them to stop it. They sicd their lawyers on them. They aren't stopping it. The point of the whole stinking article. Which is what prompted my sarcastic crack to you about reading the article in the first place.

[jody]

58. Thanks for the exchange and have a wonderful evening. n/t

[Pithlet]

59. Yep. That's what I thought. You've got nothing. n/t

[jody]

32. Dupe deleted. n/t

[SteveG]

41. I've been through this - it's not fun.

Ten years ago, my eldest son passed away at age 25, leaving nearly $400,000 in debts, 99% of it medical (His health insurance company and his death occurred in PA, he was a resident of DE - it can get complicated. I was his executor. There are a couple of things to consider for the parents in this case.

In the two jurisdictions that I had to cope with DE and PA, a deceased person's debts are his or her own debts as long as there is no co-signer, nor doe someone claim them as a dependent or they are married (unless the married couple has completely separated their finances - no joint bank accounts or debt instruments signed by both).

What I had to was get a bunch of Death Certificates, and notorized copies of my authority as executor, and close the accounts. I did what was legally required, notified the debtors as to his death and closed the accounts. At his death my son had about $5,000 in assets. Well to make a long story shorter, most of the debtors now had to be negotiated with. With his small credit card and auto loan debt, plus his debt on his medical bills after his Health insurance maxed out there were only enough assets to pay about a quarter cent on the dollar. His credit card companies decided to just write off that debt, since they would only have gotten less than $5 each. The one that really dogged me for nearly 6 years was the Hospital. When I would explain to each of the credit collectors that the debt had been sold to the fact that I was not in any way financially tied to my son except as co-signer on his car. However, before they received the proof in the mail, they would sell off the debt to some other poor shmuck. Only the debt on the car was actually paid off (I bought it). I haven't been bothered by them for 4 years. May it stay so.

[jody]

43. Thanks, your story mirrors my own experience. n/t

[Pithlet]

13. Even with credit cards n/t

[dysfunctional press]

29. they give credit cards to college students- what assets do they have?

if the guy lived in the city, rented and didn't have a car, and lived paycheck-to-paycheck, where are the assets?

[jody]

33. "where are the assets?" I'll bite, where? n/t

[dysfunctional press]

37. that's the point- there are none.

you were claiming that people with no assets wouldn't get credit cards, when in reality- they do ALL the time.

[jody]

38. I made no such claim. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

47. "You are so funny! If you believe the son had credit cards and zero assets you are also naive. n/t"

:eyes:

[brentspeak]

48. In other words, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

[jody]

51. I know but you obviously don't . n/t

[madinmaryland]

15. Let's see:

a car: Maybe worth 12K with about a 9K loan??
a tv: 3 years old, probably not worth more than a couple hundred.
Computer: Obsolete every three years.

Chances are he doesn't have much, if anything assets. Especially if he liked to party.

[jody]

17. If the parents are executors of the estate, then when they comply with state law the matter will be

resolved.

If they are not the executors of the estate, then it's not the parents problem.

[madinmaryland]

21. Assuming they are and that they have complied with the state law,

you would be correct. Assuming that is the case, then it's not the parent's problem.

None of us know if the parent's are the executors and if they are have they complied with all state laws, as that can only be assumed by the artical. But then again it is sourced from the Fox noise channel.

[jody]

22. The article is incomplete without addressing who the executor of the estate was. n/t

[Pithlet]

26. They said he had no assets, so no. It's not incomplete.

Unsecured loans do not pass on to heirs, so whether they are executors is immaterial.

[jody]

34. LOL. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

67. I fail to see the humor. -nt

[Shardik]

19. He probably had a photo album...

and clothes....

and keepsakes, too!

I'll bet he had dinnerware and unfinished prescriptions.


When my younger sister died, she was being hounded by creditors due to a lengthy illness. She left instructions to tell them "I beat you!" and to "fuck off." I respected her wishes. I gave her car to her son and the rest to good will except for the personal stuff.

[jody]

20. In some states your act of giving her car to her son could be a crime. n/t

[Shardik]

25. I don't give a shit.

The car was paid for.

[Liberal_in_LA]

30. Don't blame you for what you did. Many of these debt collectors are blood suckers

who make a living by purchasing debt and hounding people for the money. I have NO sympathy for them. NONE.

[Shardik]

35. Seems as if the gunslingers love 'em though.

[jody]

36. You had to be the executor of the estate to legally give the car to the son. Some states might view

that as concealing assets from legitimate creditors.

[Shardik]

45. No kidding?

Duh.

I thought just anyone could walk into a dead person's home and give away shit.

Thanks for setting me straight on that. I guess I ought to stop doing that.

(and just in case... :sarcasm: )

[jody]

49. Are you bragging about committing a possible crime? n/t

[Shardik]

60. You betcha.

And you have never gone over the speed limit? Removed a do not remove tag?

What? Are you one of those check and loan cashing place owners?

[jody]

61. Some crimes are misdemeanors and others felonies. n/t

[Shardik]

64. Okay, then here's a bunny with a pancake on its head.

[Runcible Spoon]

79. you fucking rock!

:applause:

I think Jody should GTFO DU and go picket the bank bailouts, or go work for them. Leave the fucking bereaved "little people" alone. Sigh.

[NutmegYankee]

46. Fuck them.

The son has every right to that car.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

66. Jesus H. Christ, is there any instance of RW assholiness you won't like?

Don't bother answering, that was rhetorical.

[Gormy Cuss]

7. Read the link.

The answer is no assets and the accounts were solely in the son's name.

[jody]

9. See my #8. n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

14. Sure, and debt collectors get it wrong frequently.

Had to deal with some of the swine this week. One even told me that the phone company gave him my number as associated with the person he was seeking until I backed him down by asking him specific details. He either misspoke or intentionally lied but either way he didn't have the common courtesy to admit the error, just kept blathering about how his company would keep calling back until I let them talk to the party. :eyes:

[jody]

18. Agree re debt collectors. n/t

[johnfunk]

27. I hope you're in a one-party consent state and taped that...

... you have a heapin' helpin' of instant FDCPA lawsuit fodder. The caller and his bottom-feeding collection mill would each be on the hook for $1000.

[Gormy Cuss]

39. I told him he was violating FDCPA

and furthermore that calling me again would most certainly constitute harassment either under FDCPA or other statutes. I've been through this before with a different collection agency and once I cited the FDCPA they stopped calling.

on edit: I don't have bad debts or bad credit yet I would support regulation to clamp down on them even more. It seems that about once every couple of years one of them hones in on my phone number (common surname, first initial) and steps over the line. I'd like to see them prevented from calling any phone number blindly.

[eilen]

73. Some idiot has called me twice

asking me if I was related to a "Billiam Johnson" (name changed to protect a practical stranger).

Now, I am aware a relative of my brother-in-law (married to my sister) is going through bankruptcy and all kinds of financial hell. I might have met this person once or twice-- at a wedding, and maybe a chance encounter-- over the past 20 years. From the stories I have heard, he has brought this all on to himself, this is no innocent victim. HOWEVER.... I am not related to him nor do I have any responsibility towards bloodsucking creditors to give them any information.... least of all, contact information of his brother. People have a right to privacy and don't need to be harrassed because a family member has had a financial implosion. Screw them.

AND I object to them contacting me.
The assholes.

[HamdenRice]

76. No that's wrong

If the son had left assets, you are correct that his estate was liable for his debts.

But the time for the creditors to collect those debts was when the estate was in probate court. If the creditors failed to see that their debtor had died and his assets were passing through probate, then they have no right to ask the parents or others who inherited those assets to pay.

If they were too slow, they lose.

[Ilsa]

40. I didn't have a will when I was 27 and single. Screw the creditors. nt

[Yavin4]

42. Debt Collectors Are More Bark Than Bite

They cannot collect unsecured debts from a deceased person. Heck, student loans are forgiven if the borrower dies. Debt collectors call and call in order to intimidate people to pay them, but they have to jump through hoops in order to enforce payment. They have to file a suit to collect from you, which they won't do because of the time and expense of filing a lawsuit.

[Greyhound]

65. I find it so odd that people let these vermin harass them when they are so easy to get rid of.

Powerless bottom feeding scumbags.

[book_worm]

50. I believe it's a law that if somebody tells a collection agency not to call anymore they have to

stop, or am I wrong?

[ejpoeta]

71. there are laws regarding fair debt collection practices (FDCPA)

and, yes, if you tell a collector that they cannot contact you by phone they have to stop. Sending a letter helps to. make sure it's certified. and the family SHOULD!! they need to send a validation letter. how should they know if their son owes anyone anything. and THEY don't have to pay anything. if he has an estate, the creditors could try to go after that, but beyond that.... they are SOL. the parents aren't responsible for their son's debt.

we had people call us about our friend's debt. he had been staying with us towards the end until he went to hospice. he had cancer. they tried to get US to give them money. bullshit! if you talk in legal language, usually they get the picture that you won't roll over and they could be in for some trouble. not hard to file a lawsuit. maybe the family should do that. maybe threatening to file a lawsuit would be enough.

[WillieW]

62. I paid a medical bill last year via on line banking, but I am

still being harrassed by a collection agency for non payment. It has affected my credit rating. I keep sending proof of payment, but they keep on harassing me. Now I have to spend money and get an attorney.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

70. These people are EVIL. Show no mercy. -nt

[ejpoeta]

72. is this the original creditor, or is it a 3rd party debt collector? my husband

may be able to help you. you can contact him at [e-mail]. he has two lawsuits in court right now against these people. no, he is not a lawyer. but we went through hell a couple years back when these people we had never heard of got a judgement against us and siezed our bank account. bob got the judgement overturned AND all of our money back.

[Lance_Boyle]

78. you should remove that address ASAP

you have invited never-ending spam to that email account by posting it online. PM would be better.

[Vinca]

68. Why would parents be responsible for their adult son's bills?

Unless they were co-signers on loans or credit cards, of course. They ought to sue the collection agency for harassment.

[southernyankeebelle]

69. I want too trust my fellow americans

I don't understand how the parents can be held responsible for the son's debts. What were the creditors after? Now if he owned money on his car than I would have let them have it back. But if he had credit debt they should be held responsible for it.

[MilesColtrane]

74. Collection Agents are scum.

I was repeatedly harassed over someone else's debts. (I guess we had similar names.)

They'd call and give no information about who they were. I found out later after googling the caller ID.
They'd ask my name, then demand that I give them my SS #. (I never did.)

At first, I questioned whether I may have had some long outstanding debt that I didn't know about. After checking my current credit report I knew they were fucked.

Then the bastards started calling my mom at her house.

I kept telling them to die and eventually they stopped calling.

[tammywammy]

75. I do the receivables at the dealership I work at

I'm the one that calls to collect on people.

I've only called someone's relative once. He bounced a check for his down payment on a car. I set him up to pay $100/month for so many months to pay it off. Then a couple of months later, he disconnected his phone. His mom was listed on his credit report as a references, so I called her and told her I needed to speak with him (and I didn't tell her about what). She called him, he called me back all pissed. *shrug*

I wonder if his car has gotten repoed (and not for this, we eventually wrote off the bounced check), because since he couldn't afford $500 for a down payment, I wonder how the hell he could afford just his car payment. Or maybe he's just an ass that didn't want to pay his bills.

And I've also sent bounced checks for down payments off to the DA to prosecute.

But then I don't do that shit that those collection agencies do.

[MilesColtrane]

77. Sounds like you were more than fair with him.

[Raineyb]

80. They're lower than scum

I had a collection agency write me last year over a debt to a company with whom I was in good standing. I called the original company and the collection agency and from the little bit I was able to gather they had someone else entirely and it was some how attached to me. I wrote them a letter for them to check and I suspect they didn't bother but just sent me a letter saying the debt was valid. When I wrote them a second letter (which I had certified) quoting law and specifying that they not contact me again unless they've verified the debt or closed the case that I managed to get these fools off my back.

When they closed the case they had the nerve to say that they do not acknowledge that they were wrong. Basically they were telling me that they were closing the account because it was too much trouble to collect.

I now keep a template of such a letter on my computer so all I have to do is fill in dates and company names and hit print. It will be the first letter that goes out since using plain ordinary English does nothing to keep these blood suckers off your back.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/pf/dispute-letter.asp

I've included the link to the letter I used. Of course if you run debt collection dispute letter in the Google you'll find plenty.

Regards