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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:16 PM
Original message
U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible
http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_11444354

By Diana Washington Valdez / El Paso Times
Posted: 01/13/2009 03:49:34 PM MST


Related story: 2,000 fresh troops sent to Juarez as violence continues
http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_11448257



EL PASO - Mexico is one of two countries that "bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse," according to a report by the U.S. Joint Forces Command on worldwide security threats.

The command's "Joint Operating Environment (JOE 2008)" report, which contains projections of global threats and potential next wars, puts Pakistan on the same level as Mexico. "In terms of worse-case scenarios for the Joint Force and indeed the world, two large and important states bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse: Pakistan and Mexico.


"The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and press by criminal gangs and drug cartels. How that internal conflict turns out over the next several years will have a major impact on the stability of the Mexican state. Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."

The U.S. Joint Forces Command, based in Norfolk, Va., is one of the Defense Departments combat commands that includes members of the different military service branches, active and reserves, as well as civilian and contract employees. One of its key roles is to help transform the U.S. military's capabilities.

In the foreword, Marine Gen. J.N. Mattis, the USJFC commander, said "Predictions about the future are always risky ... Regardless, if we do not try to forecast the future, there is no doubt that we will be caught off guard as we strive to protect this experiment in democracy that we call America."
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. If that happens, America will either sink or crash into Panama! n/t
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. No way, Texas sucks. And it's strong enough to keep us from going south!!!!!!!!
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. They're not suggesting we "liberate" Mexico, are they?
Oooh, my head...
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Geez, less than a week to go and they are still selling fear.
Didn't Bush's US Highway to the Sea of Cortez happen?
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. It is the military's job to honestly evaluate this sort of thing
and I think their analysis is spot-on. Mexico has some serious problems, but the news rarely gives them much coverage.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. It's also the job of the psy-ops folks to fuck with us.
Mexico seems in no more serious trouble than when they elected their last president.

Comparing them with Pakistan's peril is seriously erroneous.




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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. So, you are saying the OP is taking part in a psy-op?
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Not good.
Not good at all.

If the USA intervenes in Mexico, it will be a huge
FUBAR mess trying to make war on gangs and drug
cartels.

Thank you so much NAFTA.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. It would be worse if Mexico sinks into chaos and anarchy
It would be the classic "Screwed if you do; screwed much worse if you don't" type of situation.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. translation: Mexico is on verge of electing left-wing government
The military would love to do a Chilean Pinochet-style operation on Mexico.
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StreetKnowledge Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. The Mexican Army isn't strong enough for that.
Besides that, Calderon will be president for another four years. I don't think there is much to worry about there.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. does that mean the drugs I buy will be cheaper???
oh wait, I buy USA grown marijuana now.....nevermind.....
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. ........
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. mmmmmm homegrown!!!!!!!!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. we don't need no stinking imports!
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. 2/3 to 3/4 of the cannabis in the country I live in now, France
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 05:46 PM by reggie the dog
is imported from Morocco. The rest is home grown. The Moroccan is hash though, a treat for me. Unless it is shitty quality hash, then I just pass it up and wait for a harvest. I havent even seen Mexican grass in Chicago for at least 5 years. I try to go back for a month or 2 every year.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. How does a modern nation "suddenly collapse"?
It seems to me that the worst case scenario would be that Chiapas seceeds from the Republic of Mexico and declares itself independent. That region of Mexico would be engulfed in civil war, which is never a good thing, but I don't see how that would lead to a "sudden collapse." People would flee, no doubt, but the United States is about as far away as it can be from any point in Mexico; I would think most refugees would head to nearby states or into neighboring Belize or Guatamala.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. sudden collapse = votes in a left wing goverment
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've been anticipating this eventuality since 2007.
robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-14-07 07:54 PM
Original message
We need to wake up to what's going on in Mexico NOW.

For about the last month or so, I have been watching with increasing concern dangerous developments in Mexico. Not just regarding the election being stolen from AMLO, increasingly violent escalation between drug cartels and government forces, or even the flight of economic refugees across the US/Mexico border. In my opinion, these are all symptoms of one overriding political and economic problem: oil depletion. In 2004, oil production peaked in Mexico and by almost all accounts, the decline is not going to be gradual:

Mexico: Peak Oil in Action

There is a present-day example of the World Problematique unfolding on the North American continent. It involves Peak Oil, climate change, food scarcity and socioeconomic instability. It brings the nature of the problems the world will face over the next few decades into stark relief.
The Scenario

* Mexico's biggest oil field is Cantarell. Its 2 million barrel per day output was responsible for 60% of Mexico's production, and all its oil exports to the United States.
* Those oil exports account for 40% of Mexico's public funding.
* Cantarell's output is known to be crashing (see graphic above). Production has declined by 25% in the last year and is predicted to be down about 60% from its peak by the end of 2007. The field will probably lose over 75% of its production capacity by the end of 2008.
* When this happens Mexico's economy will probably implode.
* The United States currently exports about 20% of its corn crop.
* Next year, 20% of the United States' corn crop is going to be used for ethanol.
* Mexico imports a substantial amount of corn from the United States.
* As Cantarell's output declines, oil exports to the US will drop in lockstep.
* As oil imports drop in the US, the pressure will mount to produce more ethanol as a substitute.
* As more corn is bought by the American ethanol industry, US corn exports, especially to Mexico, will slide.
* At the same time the probability is high that Global Warming will result in higher temperatures in Mexico, a country already at temperature risk.
* Rising temperatures will bring more drought conditions and a drop in Mexico's own corn production.
* Now you have a country with a decimated economy and declining food. This is a recipe for massive migration.
* The migration moves North as it has in the past, but this time in enormous numbers.
* As the economic refugees cross the border what do they find?
* In January, 2006, KBR (a subsidiary of Halliburton) was given a $385M contract to build a string of very large detention camps in the United States...

Peak oil, global warming, food, biofuels and authoritarianism — all rolled up into one neat but ugly little package. Coming to a border near you within 3 years.

snip

The Spectre of Revolution

When contemplating Mexico's future you should always remember her past. Mexican history is full of revolutionary episodes: the War of Independence of 1810; the Mexican Civil War or War of Reform of 1857; the Mexican Revolution of 1910; the Zapatista actions in Chiapas in 1994; and the recent violent confrontations in Oaxaca.

The effect of NAFTA on the lives of the Mexican poor has been devastating. In an echo of the enclosure movement in Britain many have been forced off land they traditionally occupied, either by economic circumstances or legislation. A good overview of Mexican agrarian history, including the impact of NAFTA, is available in this FAO document.

The 100+ year-old push-pull effect of the US economy on Mexican migration is a very well documented historical phenomenon. This time, circumstances are somewhat different. Many Mexican campesinos — subsistence farmers that either owned their own land or held it jointly in a collective called an ejido — were forced off their land due to NAFTA rules that allowed the dumping of highly subsidized, below market-priced US corn on the Mexican market. The land is still there, but now sits idle. In the event of a severe economic downturn there would likely be a large movement to return to the land as well as increased northward migration.

Cantarell's crash and PEMEX's impending bankruptcy present a political crisis of the first magnitude for Mexico's elite and threaten the stability of the small middle class. This crisis presents a great opportunity for the long downtrodden majority to gain power as has happened in Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela. Conditions will be ripe for a resurgence of revolutionary sentiment in Mexico, which will probably take the form of an import of the Bolivarian Revolution championed by Hugo Chavez.

Of course, having such an incendiary political movement on their very doorstep will not sit well with the American industrial/political establishment. The probability of direct American political, economic and even military involvement in Mexican affairs as a result should not be lightly dismissed.


more...

http://www.paulchefurka.com/Mexico%20and%20the%20Problematique.html


This is a perfect recipe for recession in America and revolution in Mexico. If those numbers are correct expect that stew to come to a boil before Dumbya leaves office in January 2009. As you can see, the pot is already starting to simmer:


Mexico: A Nation-State Dissolves?
Posted by jeffvail on July 12, 2007 - 10:00am

In my annual new years predictions, I said that the most significant, and surprising, development of 2007 would be the collapse of both Mexico’s economy and its very existence as a viable Nation-State. While there hasn’t been a spectacular, single event confirming my prediction, there has been a steady erosion on all fronts—with five months left in the year, I’m not yet willing to push back my prediction of Mexico’s “collapse” to 2008. The decline of the Mexican Nation-State is a bellwether for the massively complex network of geopolitical influences sometimes termed above ground factors. It provides some insight into how symptoms of oil scarcity already being felt in poorer parts of the world will increasingly spill over into our own back yard…

snip

Before I highlight the specific events that are undermining the Mexican Nation-State, let me talk first for a moment about what it means for a Nation-State to collapse, an important topic as it’s an experience that will become increasingly common over the next decade. When a Nation-State collapses, the cities don’t all catch on fire simultaneously whilst roving hoards pillage the countryside and the population starves. Nation-State collapse is not the apocalypse—it is exactly what it suggests to be: the collapse of the notional union of Nation and State under one central, viable government. Nation-State collapse also doesn’t suggest that there will no longer be Nation-States. It is my prediction that there will be a Mexico, an Iraq, etc. for quite a long time. What collapse does mean is that the importance of Nation-States will decline sharply, as they become increasingly ineffectual both domestically and internationally. Nor does the decline of the Nation-State mean the decline of Nationalism and similar identifying sentiments. Quite the opposite: as States increasingly fail to care for their constituent Nations, those Nations will become increasingly susceptible to the black shirts and brown shirts of history, but these movements will be increasingly dissociated from States, more similar in organizational model to al-Qa’ida than to Nazi Germany. (See The New Map, a paper that I presented at the 2006 Yale International Law Conference, for an overview of this notion of the end of the Nation-State)

Mexico’s Oil Production is Collapsing

Production from Mexico’s Cantarell field is collapsing, and production from new fields are not making up the difference. It appears very likely that Mexico has permanently passed its peak oil production. On top of that, domestic consumption is rising, creating the classic Export Land effect: declining production and rising domestic consumption equal accelerated declines in exports. Taxes from these export revenues generate the largest share of revenue for the federal government. Recent reductions in the tax rate that the government applies to PEMEX, the state oil company, shows that this key source of revenue is failing. The collapse of Mexican oil production has been extensively discussed elsewhere—here it is only my aim to highlight this as a component in the collapse of the Mexican Nation-State, and the positive feedback loops between the two events.

snip
Mexico’s Monopoly on Violence is Collapsing

Not that Mexico was ever a poster-child for civic safety and effective policing, but the situation has grown considerably worse in the past year. There are mass desertions among the federal police. Outright infantry battles between crime organizations and the government are becoming a common occurrence. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of police, judges, government officials, and reporters have been assassinated over the past few years. What control the federal government continues to exercise in states such as Sonora, Sinaloa, and Nuevo Leon is mainly due to the fact that crime organizations don’t want to actually take over the territory—they already experience the benefits of acting as a sovereign government without the burdens, and they’re happy to leave those burdens to the “official” government.


more...

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2752

Then there was this in yesterday's LA Times:

Mexican troops to guard energy sites
Guerrilla attacks on pipelines have caused fuel shortages for factories.
By Héctor Tobar, Times Staff Writer
July 13, 2007


MEXICO CITY — Mexican President Felipe Calderon has dispatched a new 5,000-strong elite military unit to guard strategic sites, including oil refineries and hydroelectric dams, in the wake of guerrilla attacks on pipelines operated by the national oil and gas company, Pemex, according to news reports Thursday.

Business leaders said as many as 1,000 factories and other businesses in the Guanajuato-Queretaro region of central Mexico have been forced to shut down or reduce operations this week because of fuel shortages caused by attacks this month.

The leftist Popular Revolutionary Army, or EPR, claimed responsibility for the attacks Tuesday, saying they were in retaliation for the disappearance of two of their militants last year in the southern state of Oaxaca.

The EPR communique said the rebels had bombed three pipelines and a switching station in Queretaro and Guanajuato states. The explosions severed natural gas pipelines and a crude oil pipeline that links storage facilities in the Gulf of Mexico port of Poza Rica to a refinery in Salamanca, in Guanajuato, reducing fuel supplies in the region.

more...

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/13/world/fg-pemex13

You heard it here first, Mexico is going to be THE campaign issue by summer of 2008 and we better be prepared to deal with this humanely to counter the racism and/or xenophobia of the Rethugs. As you can see from the bold section on KBR's detention camps and with the increased use of PMCs by the neo-cons, they already have a plan to deal with this situation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1334856

While I may have been off with my prediction that this would be a campaign issue, this is still a MAJOR CRISIS that we need to be aware of. The opportunity for us to deal with the situation humanely is greater under an Obama administration, but we still have the problem that the detention camps are privately owned by KBR. If Kellogg, Brown and Root decided to hire Blackwater thugs for their detention center security, I'm not sure what legal recourse AG Holder would have to stop it until or unless abuses were proven. Not to mention the abuses we will see in the rise of hate crimes in the general populace, Lou Dobbs having an apoplectic fit 24/7, etc. We're going to have our hands full.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Hey luv
we still here!
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Still fighting the good fight!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. Here's the part the story ain't covering
this is due to the failed war on drugs (yes the same one I've been told by someone that it's not a real war_

Here is more... the violence is spreading north...as in NORTH OF THE BORDER

Oh and it goes without saying, the corruption is also moving north

What we are seeing down there is our future... ten to fifteen years.

Mark your calendar by the way. I also know this is not popular either
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charlie and algernon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. next thing you know Cuban and South American troops will be invading!
and Russian Paratroopers will be landing at high schools across the nation :scared:
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Who will save the day???????
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R. The fascists are laughing their heads off as they're counting their take.
.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. it seems like it's been in a state of continuous slow-motion collapse for as long as i can remember.
how do we tell the difference?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
26. it seems like we should worry about our own collapse
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