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Nothing would fix the economy quicker and better for long run than universal healthcare.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:49 AM
Original message
Nothing would fix the economy quicker and better for long run than universal healthcare.
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 11:43 AM by blm
Guaranteed healthcare would free up the average person to actually purchase items they've held off buying as they pay down their doctor bills and try to keep up with their insurance premiums.

It would get working class and low-income workers who have held off on their healthcare INTO the doctors' offices and medical centers, resulting in a healthier workforce and work environment for all.

There is just no downside to this. A starting commitment of 250 billion for universal healthcare would do ALOT more for our economy AND our humanity than another 350 billion for banking interests.

Just saw thread posted yesterday by Donnachaidh about study verifying what many of us believe re universal healthcare as a benefit to economy....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4828415&mesg_id=4828415

Thank you Donnachaidh!
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think so, too. nt
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes. Can't wait to see the excuses why they still won't do it.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Don't hold you breath. You know I actually thought this time
we might get it.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. One problem with that:
It might divert some funding that is currently being funneled to the wealthy. We couldn't have that. Why, just look at what the tax cuts have done for the economy!
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. why would people be opposed to this?and yet,they are
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. not saying your wrong but
fixing the tax system is a must. The current tax system places the vast burden of taxes on those with the least ability to pay them.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. you'll have insurance agencies pissing their pants because of the job loss
Insurance companies have become the cancer in the industry that must be cut OUT for the middle class to revive and survive.

NOW. We need it NOW.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Just saw your thread from yesterday - I hope everyone reads your thread, especially congressional
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Not just insurance companies....debt collectors, too.
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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freeplessinseattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. I know I'd be making more if I had less migraines
the meds are crazy expensive, can't imagine how other people with no insurance and less income manage. just as one example.

fortunately I am self-employed, and while I still let some people down when I am sick, at least I can't get fired for being unreliable. luckily my past employers were understanding but it put a strain on their business, too.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. I agree about the "better for the long run" business, but "quicker" is debatable.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. So are we going to believe that you are right or that these people are right,
who are behind the study:

The Institute for Health & Socio-Economic Policy (IHSP) is a non-profit policy and research group and is the exclusive research arm
of the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee. The IHSP focus is current political/economic policy
analysis in health care and other Industries and the constructive engagement of alternative policies with international, national,
state and local bodies to enhance promote and defend the quality of life for all.

The IHSP has a number of Advisory Boards comprised of analysts and policy activists with expertise in their respective industries of
interest. Advisory Boards include Health Care, Alternative Technologies, Energy, Communications, etc. The Health Care Advisory
Board is comprised of scholars from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Boston University, Harvard University, the Canadian
National Federation of Nurses’ Unions, the New School New York and the University of California.


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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. People might be able to afford a stop in a coffeeshop or diner without counting their pennies.
It absolutely would save alot of small businesses that are in trouble now.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yes, and Thom Hartmann picked it up and broadcast it on his show this
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 02:47 PM by Cleita
morning. He remarked on the excellent sources. Let's hope other radio and TV hosts do to so that it goes coast to coast and Washington can't ignore it. We need to do our part next week also after Obama is sworn in and start sending those letter, phone calls and emails to both Congress and the White House.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. Go further
A USHS (for lack of a better name) would need hospitals, roads to connect them, ambulances. That's a lot of money going into construction and the auto industry right there. Once they're built, they need to be filled with beds, medical equipment, a canteen, maybe a newsstand. You would need people to staff them, doctors and nurses, obviously but you also need semi-skilled and unskilled workers (admin staff, IT specialists, orderlies, janitors, groundskeepers, a cook and serving staff, someone to run the newsstand), all of which provide new jobs for the jobless. Reliable jobs that are pretty much recession-proof and pay decent wages. I've known people who were janitors and groundskeepers and suchlike for the NHS and their wages weren't bad. It's not luxury but it's a decent wage you can live off. So a USHS creates a stack of new jobs, the act of setting it up pumps a load of money into the economy and once that money is spent, you have a gleaming new health system to show for it. You don't have to put that kind of money in again (as you might well have to do with banks), you just have to maintain it which is relatively cheap.

In addition to that, the combination of Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance costs the US populace a combined total of around $2.3 trillion annually (figures from Wiki) and still leaves many millions uninsured. Using the NHS model, you can cover the entire US population for around $600 billion a year (using the French model, generally accepted as the world's best, would cost around $900 billion); that's a collosal saving to the US taxpayer and it comes from two sources. The first is simplicity (only one system to deal with); the second is the fact that private insurance spends typically 20-30% of it's outlay on administration. For the NHS, that figure is around 6.5% and the workers are paid a decent wage, unionised and get pensions and benefits.

A lot of right-wingers tell me that the USPS is a failure because it's always broke and a USHS would be the same. I have to wonder if they've missed the point. The object of the postal system isn't to turn a profit, it's to move the mail about quickly for teh mutual convienience of all. The object of a USHS isn't to turn a profit, it's to look after the nation's sick and ideally, to prevent them becoming sick, for the mutual benefit of everyone. Private companies have to make a profit, a USHS administered by well-policed career civil servants doesn't need to make a profit. There's a lot of different ways of funding universal healthcare but since the US is coming to this late, you could easily study the existing systems and mix-and-match parts, absorbing Medicare and Medicaid along the way, until you come up with something special and uniquely American.

Morally, it makes even more sense. Personally, I've always found that making a profit off sick people was morally wrong but more to the point, a USHS can deal with problems before they become problems. I'm not sure if that made sense so here's an example: My last check-up (here, it is recommended but not required that you get a general check-up every six months or so) revealed that I had slightly high blood pressure. Because that was noticed and caught in it's very early stages, I'm able to deal with it with a few minor changes to my diet and lifestyle. If I'd had to pay to visit the doctor, I would have put it off for months or even years, during which it could have become a real problem which I would have needed medication for, thus incurring more costs. As it happens, I'm one of those horribly stubborn men who dislike seeing doctors and it was caught during a routine check-up which I had to do to renew my anti-depressents.

Universal healthcare is cheaper, it gives more bang for your buck and it saves lives. It's not "sexy" in the way that a fighter plane is. It's just quietly working every day to save lives.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-16-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. That's what replies are for....yours is an EXCELLENT furthering of the OP.
.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-16-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Cheers n/t
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. And it could be paid for with a value added tax like it is in Canada:
send your teenage daughter to the mall for some shopping and $7 out of $100 goes into the healthcare system. We pay taxes when we get haircuts or buy boooks. We don't pay tax on food or children's clothing. And people who make under $20 000 a year get a GST cheque in the mail several times a year.

Seriously you should try it.
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. I thought that the new administration was refusing to take out heavy I.C. Profits?
With all the added expense of insurance companies, their profits and the overhead of their care denial panels what effect will the watered down system we will actually get have?

I also thought that the centrist proposal included separate levels of coverage based on the amount one could afford to pay rather than universal coverage, has this been factored in? (universal in centrists terms means subsidized "bare bones plans" for low income)

I read Donnachaidh's thread and understood the study, it was just that I thought single payer was not on the table as far as Obama/Daschle was concerned due to a differing ideology. Was I incorrect? If I was, we may see light at the end of the tunnel!

What is the current actual plan?
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-16-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Well....... Someone answered my question. No one here cared to
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x417142

It would appear I was correct on all counts.
Does this really bother no one but me here? Your silence is deafening.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-16-09 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. I agree.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-16-09 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. shortage of medical staff
Near universal healthcare in Massachusetts has highlighted the severe shortage of medical staff, which is what makes the rich afraid that universal health care would be "rationed" and they wouldn't get their lion's share.

Suggestion:
There are long waiting lists to get into med school, nursing school, lab tech school, etc.

1. Instead of de-funding State Universities that offer pre-med and medical school (which is happening even as we read and write here) ramp up their funding for existing pre-med and medical programs. That will re-employ professors who are being dropped, and add new ones to the rosters. Those professors will be back to paying income taxes and spending money.

2. Right now, most healthcare delivery students have to take on student loans the size of mortgages to get through what are already extremely demanding programs. Instead of burdening them with loans, provide deserving students (maintaining, say, 3.0+ averages) with grants so they can get through school without the burden of huge debt. After all, this is a community service. Health care professionals work ungodly hours, commuting through every weather condition, and every day are exposed to virulent, antibiotic-resistant pathogens. They are heros every day that they show up. That will create more delivery professionals, also paying income taxes, and free them up to spend a little more money as well.

3. Increasing the # of delivery people and relieving the burden of debt will combine to limit the fees they need to charge.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-16-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I remember part of Kerry's healthcare promise was to subsidize schooling for nurses as a way
to get more people into the field.

Better use of funds than some banker's mistress' boob job/jobs.
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