Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Report Says White House Rejected All Advice from Government Agencies That Torture Was Illegal

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:50 AM
Original message
Report Says White House Rejected All Advice from Government Agencies That Torture Was Illegal
REPORT NAMES 30 BUSH OFFICIALS COMPLICIT IN TORTURE

President Bush and his aides repeatedly ignored warnings that their torture plans were illegal from high State Department officials as well as the nation’s top uniformed legal officers, the Judge Advocates General of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines, a new published report states.

“These warnings of illegality and immorality given by knowledgeable and experienced (government) persons were ignored by the small group of high Executive officers who were determined that America would torture and abuse its prisoners and who had the decision-making power to secretly require this to be done,” said Lawrence Velvel, chairman of the “Steering Committee of the Justice Robert H. Jackson Conference On Planning For The Prosecution of High Level American War Criminals.” Velvel is a noted reformer in the field of American legal education.

“Far from American officials and lawyers authorizing or engaging in torture because it was lawful, they authorized and engaged in it because they wanted to (and) kept their actions secret from interested officials for as long as they could lest there be strong opposition to the torture and abuse they were perpetrating,” Velvel said. “They deliberately ignored repeated warnings that the torture and abuse were illegal and could lead to prosecutions, and they ignored these warnings even when they came from high level civilian and military officers.”

A preliminary Report by the Steering Committee seeking Federal prosecution of American officials “who ordered, authorized, approved or committed war crimes,” released January 9th, 2009, says they are guilty of “wholesale” violations of statutes that include Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, the Federal War Crimes Act, the Convention Against Torture, plus numerous other violations of U.S. and international laws.

The Report said prisoners were subjected to savage beatings, sleep deprivation, slow drowning, hanging by chains, being slammed head-first into concrete walls, temperature extremes, food deprivation, burial alive in coffin-like boxes for extended periods, and even threats against their families.

Among other things, the Report charges the General Counsel of the Central Intelligence Agency(CIA), knowingly approved of at least 117 renditions to torture and that such renditions were “personally encouraged by President George W. Bush…”

In addition to President Bush, those named for prosecution by the Steering Committee include:

Vice President Dick Cheney and his former chief of staff and legal counsel David Addington, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice and her predecessor Colin Powell, former Attorneys-General John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and his aide Alice Fisher, former deputy assistant Attorney General; and Tim Flanigan, a deputy White House attorney.

Also named by the Steering Committee is I. Lewis (“Scooter”) Libby, former assistant to President Bush. Libby was convicted of perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to Federal investigators in the Valerie Plame affair. President Bush commuted Libby’s 30-month prison sentence. Additionally, Douglas Feith, former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy; Defense Undersecretary Stephen Cambone, General Michael Dunlavey, and Major General Geoffrey Miller, former commander of Guantanamo prison, Cuba.

CIA officials cited in the Report are former Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet; Cofer Black, head of the CIA’s Counterterrorist Center; James Pavitt, former CIA Deputy Director for Operations; General Counsel Scott Muller; Acting General Counsel John Rizzo; David Becker; contract officer James Mitchell, and an unidentified woman that formerly headed the CIA’s Al Qaeda unit and also briefed President Bush.

Among the lawyers guilty of war crimes are former Assistant Attorneys General Jay Bybee and John Yoo; Defense Department chief legal officer Jim Haynes; Robert Delahunty, special counsel with Office of Legal Counsel, Department of Justice; Patrick Philbin, deputy assistant Attorney General; Steven Bradbury, head of the White House’s Office of Legal Counsel; Lt. Col. Diane Beaver, a former Staff Judge at Guantanamo; Mary Walker, General Counsel of the Air Force and Jack Goldsmith, former head of the Office of Legal Counsel, Department of Justice.

“Torture and abuse were discussed at meetings of the so-called Principals Committee, where George Tenet presented graphic details of interrogations to a Committee which included some of Bush’s highest associates, including Rice, Powell, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft and Cheney and, at times, John Yoo.

The above-mentioned Bush officials were involved in shaping or carrying out torture policies despite written and/or verbal warnings given by high government officials in the Pentagon, State Department, FBI, and other agencies. Among these objectors were:

# William Howard Taft IV, the Legal Advisor to the State Department whose 40-page memo of January 11, 2002 warned Bush’s claim the Geneva Conventions were not applicable to prisoners held by the U.S. could subject Bush to prosecution for war crimes. State Department lawyer David Bowker further warned “there is no such thing” as a person that is not covered by the Geneva Conventions.

# The Defense Department’s own Criminal Investigative Task Force headed by Col. Brittain Mallow warned Haynes that tactics used at Guantanamo could be illegal. His warning were ignored by Haynes, whose position was based on statements of Yoo and Chertoff.

# FBI Director Robert Mueller barred FBI agents from participating in coercive CIA interrogations, “a warning-fact well known to many in the Executive,” the Steering Committee Report said. Also, Marion Bowman, head of the FBI’s national security law section in Washington called lawyers in Jim Haynes’ office in the Pentagon to express his concern but said he never heard back.

# David Brant, head of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service learned about the torture and abuse at Guantanamo and took the position that “it just ain’t right” and expressed his concern to Army officials in command authority over military interrogators at Guantanamo but “they did not care,” the Report said.

# A senior CIA intelligence analyst that visited Guantanamo in 2002 reported back that the U.S. was committing war crimes there and that one-third of the detainees had no connection to terrorism. The report alarmed Rice’s lawyer John Bellinger and National Security Council terrorism expert General John Gordon but their concerns were “flatly rejected and ignored” by Addington, Flanigan and Gonzales, as well as by Rumsfeld’s office.

# Navy General Counsel Alberto Mora carried his concern over Guantanamo torture to Haynes and to Mary Walker, head of a Pentagon working group that was drafting a DOD memo based on Yoo’s work that authorized torture. Mora said what was occurring at Guantanamo was “at a minimum cruel and unusual treatment, and, at worst, torture.” His warning was ignored.

“The Judge Advocates General of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines are the country’s top uniformed legal officers,” appointed to Walker’s working group, “were appalled at what they were seeing, and each wrote a memo of dissent to torture and abuse,” the Steering Committee’s Report said.

“Their memos warned not just that what was being approved was contrary to the legal and moral training American servicemen have always received, and not just that there would be international criticism, but also that interrogators and the chain of command were being put at risk of criminal prosecutions abroad.” But these warnings by the nation’s top uniformed legal officers were ignored.

“If Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, and others are not prosecuted,” Velvel said, “the future could be threatened by additional examples of Executive lawlessness by leaders who need fear no personal consequences for their actions, including more illegal wars such as Iraq.”

Besides Velvel, members of the Steering Committee include:

Ben Davis, a law Professor at the University of Toledo College of Law, where he teaches Public International Law and International Business Transactions. He is the author of numerous articles on international and related domestic law.

Marjorie Cohn, a law Professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego, Calif., and President of the National Lawyers Guild.

Chris Pyle, a Professor at Mount Holyoke College, where he teaches Constitutional law, Civil Liberties, Rights of Privacy, American Politics and American Political Thought, and is the author of many books and articles.

Elaine Scarry, the Walter M. Cabot Professor of Aesthetics and the General Theory of Value at Harvard University, and winner of the Truman Capote Award for Literary Criticism.

Peter Weiss, vice president of the Center For Constitutional Rights, of New York City, which was recently involved with war crimes complaints filed in Germany and Japan against former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and others.

David Swanson, author, activist and founder of AfterDowningStreet.org/CensureBush.org coalition, of Charlottesville, Va.

Kristina Borjesson, an award-winning print and broadcast journalist for more than twenty years and editor of two recent books on the media.

Colleen Costello, Staff Attorney of Human Rights, USA, of Washington, D.C., and coordinator of its efforts involving torture by the American government.

Valeria Gheorghiu, attorney for Workers’ Rights Law Center.

Andy Worthington, a British historian and journalist and author of books dealing with human rights violations.

Initial actions considered by the Steering Committee, Velvel said, are as follows:

# Seeking prosecutions of high level officials, including George Bush, for the crimes they committed.

# Seeking disbarment of lawyers who were complicitous in facilitating torture.

# Seeking termination from faculty positions of high officials who were complicitous in torture.


READ THE FULL REPORT:
http://afterdowningstreet.org/node/38811
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Until these war criminals are in chains
this planet will not see peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. they will pay for their crimes, they will not get away with it.
damn them all for what they done to us and to others, and to bring this country on its knees.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. And it is going to be must see tv when it begins
America is stronger than a few dozen or so traitors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud progressive Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. and who is gonna make them pay? the dems? obama? the 'commission'? right!?!
maybe if you can dupe kusinich or feingold about 30 times each. otherwise, forget about it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. These criminal assholes should
be in prison. Not a special prison like the Watergate convicts. A regular prison with all the horrible characteristics they think drug users deserve.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. Why do they torture: they torture imv because they like it just like some kids like blowing
something up for the pure sheer fun/joy of it. :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. ya mean like little georgie blowing up frogs? eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. How likely is it that the Robert H. Jackson Center can make this happen?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. We will hear almost constantly that America has no appetite for
punishing these war criminals. The right wing "echo chamber" still has tremendous power. The Bush* Cabal will never see accountability I am afraid and because of that we will have this happen in america the next time the Republicans gain control. They simply have no real regard for human life or Liberty..Republicans do not Govern, Republicans Rule....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'd hope to hear we have no appetite for
torture, or those who order it.

I'll continue hoping that as long as I live, because I certainly have no appetite for war crimes or war criminals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
40. So does Pelosi....
She is the one who as I recall stated that Bush had done nothing that warranted impeachment. Her comments the other day indicated again she feels he had done nothing that warranted impeachment.

It's conceivable the Justice Department could pursue criminal indictments against a former president but it's doubtful simply because that is really the responsibility of Congress. That is why we have the right to impeach, convict, and remove someone from office.

The same problem may arise with members of his administration since they were serving the president. And as I understand it there is some validity to that defense.

The real problem is the matter of complicity involves Congress and involves even the Clintons. And particularly Madeline Albright with her infamous "the deaths of 500,000 innocent Iraqi children were worth it" comment. Sure, she retracted it. But she still said it. And upon reflection, that was the position of the president she served.

As for the International Court of Justice the reality is the International Court of Justice has no authority in the matter. That in itself probably the most heinous of the crimes of George W Bush since he refused to allow the United States to become a signatory to the court.

The only justice will be the justice of history.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. impossible
without all of you

very likely with
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. thanks David
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. What about the service side that faciliated -- like Richard B. Meyers
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs? He sat there and lied during the Taguba investigation. And, what about CentCom? There were two during that period, Tommy Franks then, Abizaid? Torture wasn't confined to Guantanamo. There were (are?) also operations in Iraq and in Afghanistan. It doesn't seem possible that our torture president could have carried out his program without the cooperation of these people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. I forgot, Michael Hayden at CIA. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
12. Death or organ failure, they said.
Never forget.
Never forgive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. or
Permanent Psychological Damage

Never forget.
Never forgive.













:smoke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, davidswanson.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. "Nobody ever told us that torture was illegal!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. Bush can pardon them all including himself
but they will eventually be arrested and put on trial at the ICC if they travel almost anywhere overseas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
I814U Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Actually he cannot---Constitutionally speaking...
...if you believe in that sort of thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
16. All torturers must be brought to trial -- ASAP ....
# Seeking prosecutions of high level officials, including George Bush, for the crimes they committed.

# Seeking disbarment of lawyers who were complicitous in facilitating torture.

# Seeking termination from faculty positions of high officials who were complicitous in torture.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
17. The Neocon MO at work again
These are the same people who rejected all evidence that Saddam had no biochemical or nuclear arsenal. They chose to believe Curveball and a disreputable Italian dealer in forged documents. One should ask if it was a torture victim who told Rumsfeld that the weapons were in the neighborhoods of Baghdad and Tikrit.

These are also the same people who censored government scientists on climate change. I don't know what they were trying to get away with there. Somebody should remind the industrialists who joined the Pioneer Club that they have to breathe the same air, drink the same water and live on the same planet that we of the unwashed masses do. Nature, it turns out, is a democratic system; perhaps that is why reality has a well known left wing bias.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Exactly.
These are people who NEVER listen to opinions that they disagree with. They make their own "facts" to justify doing whatever they want. They decided to go to war with Iraq before bush was in office, and made up the reasons for "public relations". Same with torture, same with spying, same with everything they've done for the last 8 years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. Let the trials begin........................ nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. the damage done to the US standing in the world
by the Bush administration's position on torture can only be redeemed by an active pursuit of accountibility -

I hope that the Obama administration and the Democratic Congress are up to the task.

This is one black mark on our country that cannot be allowed under the rug...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. Bush will never be prosecuted under federal law,
but we can reduce the likelihood of this happening again by getting Congress to pass stronger criminal laws against torture and abuse in all its various forms. The elephant in the room here is the fact that our current laws (e.g., the torture act and the war crimes act as amended by the military commissions act) are terrible, which is why Yoo et al. were able to argue that waterboarding etc. by the CIA wasn't criminal. I've said this before (it's one of my few good points), but you ignore the point. You are obviously free to ignore it, but I don't know why someone as concerned as you about torture would ignore it. What matters most now is stopping it from happening again. The most likely path to that is to pass better criminal laws. Am I wrong?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. Kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
I814U Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
28. Obama needs to be put on notice:
* close Gitmo

* repratriate those we've victimized

* grant our victims full and fair access to the courts, both civil and criminal

* end the wars--both the real ones in Afghanistan and Iraq as well as the phony GWOT

* prosecute the criminals

* quit hiring neocons

"Accessory after the fact" would be heartbreaking legacy to this historic presidency.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. Thank you for the first comprehensive list.
We can only hope it will be put to good use.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
30. KandR. n/t
peace~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Thanks to David Swanson for all he has done to bring these manifest and
innumerable crimes to the front and for his assiduity in keeping them there against all odds (and I am sure at great personal danger and cost. We are talkng war criminals here.). Now someone please e-mail this to Obama in caps. I am too computer iliterate to do it, but someone or several someones must. These war crimes were purposeful and were warned against by credible citizens within the government who had legitimacy and authority and yet were nonetheless perpetrated. WHY? There is no logical reason since all data show that torture does not work, so the reason must be something like pure, unadulterated evil...or just plain sociopathic mania. How could so many be so cruel for no apparent gain? Please someone send this to the Obama government. We, the people, will have to insist that this is addressed because Obama will not do so of his own volition. He is either too conciliatory or too concentrated on his own agenda to allienate the GOPers. The country MUST not just give these war criminals a pass; their crimes are too egregious. Although he does not recognize the possibility, I believe that not acting will seriously damage the Obama administration and the Democratic Party, much more than doing the right thing ever will.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
34. David Swanson, American Patriot!. . . . . k&r..n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
35. If I were them I'd already have my belongings in Dubai. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
36. Question remains...
How much did some members of Congress know? And, is that why they did nothing?

Thank you David for this preliminary report. It's dreadful seeing what we all pieced out together in one place with an expanded cast of characters involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
37. K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
38. K and R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
39. Book 'em, Dano
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sienna86 Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. And let a jury decide their fate.
We can't ignore this. We cannot pretend it did not happen and move forward.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Welcome to DU!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Broadslidin Donating Member (949 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
42. The Torture & Murder of perceived opponents is obviously, a good substitute for a Cocaine High....
Mumbling those cherished Bush words
increasingly overheard since the
good 'ol days of doin the biz with Saudi Prince Bandar,
while siting on the Harken Energy Corporation board...

"Regulations! I don't need no stinkin' regulations....!"

Yes,
Harken Energy is still floating around the Dallas area.
Sells for around .50 cents a share.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
43. Absolutely damning. K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mimir Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
44. What's next?
Is anyone else worried that Mr. Obama is recycling codeword semantics when discussing this issue in public? For example, instead of saying unequivocally that we will not torture under his administration, he takes pains (no pun) to use the phrase "the United does not torture." What is with that? Is it some sort of groundwork for diverting attempts to bring the war criminals from the present administration to justice? Is is cover for continuing the policies? I am a lawyer and my Spidey-sense tingles when other lawyers juggle terms in this way (reminds me of the "definition of is" ploy).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
45. Too late to rec. Thanks David.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Apr 29th 2024, 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC