Rabbi Michael Lerner is seeking help to publish full page ad in the NYT.

[bushmeister0]

Tikkun is asking for donations to publish an open letter to President-elect Obama, for all the good it will do:

A bit of the text:

"President-elect Obama: Please call for an immediate CEASE-FIRE in GAZA and for an International Peace Conference to implement a fair and lasting solution to all aspects of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The solution must also address the conflict between Israel and other states in the region. Their provocations will continue until the international community stops the violence once and for all and creates conditions of security so that peace and reconciliation forces in each country may flourish.

Such a solution would be based on the following conditions:

The rest of it is here: http://www.spiritualprogressives.org/article.php?story=gaza_text

[Taverner]

1. I like Rabbi Michael Lerner

Everything I've heard about him I like :)

Pacifist, and not a fundamentalist

[bushmeister0]

2. Well, obvioulsy he must be an anti-Semite.

Clearly, since he's not fully supporting Israel's onslaught. (sarcasm)

[Cronopio]

10. Exactly. "You're either for us or against us." I wonder if Rahm's appointment sent a signal? nt

[hlthe2b]

4. Ahh, a breath of sanity.... thank you Rabbi Lerner...

[malaise]

5. Ditto

K & R

[TahitiNut]

9. Yup. I've read his stuff for years and he's one of the few sane adults around.

I find very little if anything to quibble with him on - and that's saying a a lot. He's conscientious and demonstrates integrity.

[bobbolink]

12. He's connected with Cornel West and Sr. Joan Chittister. Good company to be in!

My beef with him, in talking with him, is that he just wont' step up there and do the same for POVERTY and poor folk!

We aren't in his line of sight.

It's why I gave up on NSP and TIKKUN.

:(

[StudsT]

3. The Outline for Peace - Bernard Weiner

It's been clear for decades what the outlines of a just peace might look like and what each side would have to do to get there:

1. Both sides would have to abandon the "I'm the true victim" and "you started it" loops. Each side has some history on its side, each side has behaved abominably, each side has some justice in its arguments. Both sides would have to stipulate, so to speak, to these recognitions and vow not to get bogged down in whose claim is the more righteous but stick to how to make living together in the same region workable and mutually beneficial.
   
   
2. Israel would have to return to its pre-1967 borders, fully end its occupation and control of the West Bank and Gaza, abandon its settlements on Palestinian land and make sure no new ones are allowed to intrude into the new viable Palestine state, which Israel would officially recognize. (In terms of Gaza and the West Bank, Israel would cease its ruthless policy of "a hundred eyes for an eye" overkill, and constant humiliation of the Palestinians by engaging in way-over-the-top violence that constantly reminds them of their utter powerlessness.
   
   
3. The Palestinians (both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority or, better yet, Hamas inside the Palestinian Authority) would have to officially recognize the de facto State of Israel and its right to exist within secure borders. No more rockets, no more suicide bombers inside Israel, no more calling for Israel's destruction, etc.
   
   
4. Realizing that there are crazy fanatics on each side, acting out of religious zealotry or ultranationalist urgings, both sides would have to agree to crack down on those extremists and not let occasional militant violence interfere with the peace process as it unfolds and in living together after the peace treaty has been signed.
   
   
5. Jerusalem, prized for historical and religious reasons by both sides (and by Christians as well), would become an international city, administered by the U.N. and/or a tri-religious civic council agreed to by all.
   
   
6. If Israel will not permit the "right of return" of Palestinians forced off their lands by the original establishment of the Jewish state or by the Separation Wall, they will pay fair compensation for the land. Perhaps Arab nations separately and the Arab League collectively can aid in this regard as well.
   
   
7. Treaties would be worked out regarding the travel rights of Palestinian workers inside Israel, the fair allocation of precious water resources, sharing technological developments, etc.
   

much more...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x414139

pretty good idea for progress there, imho.

:hi:

StudsT

[bushmeister0]

6. That's just too sensible.

And what would happen to Israel's defense industry? Hell, what would happen to our defense industry?

[StudsT]

7. i am expecting to hear more sensible ideas like that with the new admin

:hi: bushmeister0

StudsT

[Cronopio]

11. The only problem is #4. Only the crazy fanatics would be at the negotiating table. nt

[StudsT]

14. not if there was also an honest broker there

i still believe that (currently) only the U.S. could fill that role (in spite of our past behaviour)

ideally it would be the UN but until the U.S. loses it's veto power (at least on the I/P issue) that probably won't be possible.

StudsT

[Cronopio]

18. You have more faith in our government's ability to fill that role than I do.

I sincerely wish I could agree with you on that.

[loudsue]

8. I just have to say this: The Hammas guys do NOT have the best

interests of the Palestinian people at heart. I understand how Palestinians are livid with anger at what the Israelis have done. But they should also be angry at Hammas leadership for keeping up the military actions.

I have come to detest the Israeli government almost as much as our own. In my heart I truly believe that the vast majority of people everywhere want to live in peace, and I doubt that most Israelis want their government to be bombing the hell out of Palestinians in their homes, any more than Americans want our government to be killing so many innocent Iraqis in their homes. I'm also pretty sure that the majority of Palestinians don't want to see any more rockets launched at Israel, because they KNOW what will rain down on them as a result will be horrific and cold and unrelenting.

What is it going to take before governments everywhere start acting on behalf of their populations instead of on behalf of their own narrow visions of power? Governments... and ESPECIALLY right wing governments ... really need to be brought back into line.

That includes our own.

[Truth2Tell]

15. "The Hamas guys"

means a vast majority of Palestinians. They are the elected leaders remember. When you buy into the nonsense of assigning sinister motives to the opposition then you are walking away from any chance for peace. Hamas may have made some counterproductive decisions, just like Likud. But they all certainly have the interests of their own people at heart. To suggest otherwise is just a senseless insult.

[loudsue]

17. How is that in the interest of their people?

Do they really think that firing rockets into Israel is going to stop their people from getting bombed worse? Much worse? More sanctions, more hunger, more hardship?

Hammas knows that the U.S. is changing leadership, and that Obama has a great interest in changing the tone in the mideast, as best as he can. Can't they just STOP bombing the MUCH LARGER, far more well-armed opponent until someone with some sanity and a cool head can come in and make a difference?

[Truth2Tell]

19. I didn't say their actions were smart,

just that they think they are doing the best thing. Just like many Americans think it's in the interest of our people to occupy Afghanistan, for example, even though it's actually idiotic and costs us dearly.

All kinds of leaders of nations and groups make all kinds of counterproductive decisions that they *think* are in the best interests of their people every day. It doesn't mean they don't care about their people, it just means they don't have the mental/spiritual/psychological tools to even really know what actually is in the interests of their people.

This also applies equally, if not more so, to the Israeli leadership. But you wouldn't say they don't care about the well being of their people would you? Just because they also take self-destructive actions?

[Recursion]

20. My understanding is...

Do they really think that firing rockets into Israel is going to stop their people from getting bombed worse?

The basic idea as I understand it is that unless there are attacks on Israel proper, the Israeli (and world, for that matter) public would prefer to just ignore the existence of the Gaza strip and its 1.5 million inhabitants. The only way of breaking the status quo (which is unacceptable to the people trapped in Gaza) is to try to make the status quo unacceptable to the Israelis, and they seem to think violence is the only way to do that (I have no idea if they are right about that).

Basically Hamas's goals are analogous to Israel's in this war: to make the current situation unacceptable to the other side so that the other side will acknowledge their right to exist. Nobody applauds violence, but both sides are stuck looking at a history that seems to say violence is the only thing that works.

From Israel's perspective, they withdrew from Gaza and all they got in return was the election of Hamas. From the Palestinians' perspective, Fatah recognized Israel's right to exist only to receive nothing in return except for the continued expansion of settlements in the West Bank. Neither side has given the other any reason to trust it lately.

[eridani]

22. It's as predictable as a kid biting you after you have beaten him bloody

Rage at abuse and no real power to do anything to stop it does that to people.

http://www.juancole.com/2009/01/have-bush-and-neocons-ruined-it-for.html

Kadima examples: Israelis point to thousands of rocket attacks by Hamas on Israel, without mentioning that no Israelis had been killed by them during the truce stretching from mid-June, 2008 until December 26. That is, the prelude to the most violent Israeli attack on Gaza since 1967 was . . . not a single Israeli death at the hands of Hamas in the preceding half-year. And in 8 years, Hamas had killed about 15 Israelis with those home made rockets, during which time the Israelis had killed nearly 5000 Palestinians, nearly 1000 of them minors. The rockets were small, handmade affairs for the most part and most landed uselessly. Some did damage to property and a few wounded or killed people. That would be a legitimate assertion. But the quotation of "thousands" of rockets is a half-truth and intentionally misleading.

[LeftishBrit]

23. Agreed

I detest the RW warmongers on both sides. And it must not be forgotten that they include Hamas.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Uncle Joe]

13. Excellent letter, I believe this paragraph captures the insanity of

the status quo thinking.

"A Global Marshall Plan
The self-described "realistic" version of global politics asserts that we live in a world in which our safety can only be achieved through domination because others are always seeking to dominate us first. Of course, when we act on this assumption, it becomes self-fulfilling."

Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, bushmeister0.



:thumbsup:

[BrklynLiberal]

16. I admire Rabbi Lerner and his philosphy very much.

[scarletwoman]

21. k&r

[FloridaJudy]

24. Whoa! Daniel Ellsburg signed the letter as well!

One of the two people I named my son after (the other was Daniel Berrigan).

And Anne Lamott, one of my favorite writers.

Good company to be in. I just added my signature.

[anonymous171]

26. More anti-semetism?