Military fakers will be a very common phenomenom for the foreseeable future....

[Aviation Pro]

...wannabes and fakers acquiring some Stolen Valor for themselves in an attempt to become the badasses they never were. Look for the following:

1. Fake SEALS announcing that they had any number of evil doers in their sites and were prevented from pulling the trigger by "bullshit Washington red tape."

2. Ex-PFCs declaring that they were on a top secret CIA mission to bury Saddam's WMDs.

3. A few servicemembers sporting a garden salad of unearned gongs (medals) including Distinguished Service Crosses, Silver Stars and Bronze Stars (the Medal of Honor is scrupiously tracked and in only a handful of cases involve the illegal wearing or claim of the medal).

4. Men declaring in a bar that they were Marine snipers and have 1000 kills to their credit (clue, snipers rarely if ever talk about their missions).

Fortunately, there are a number of organizations that track down the fakers, confront them and make them confess to their egregious sins.

[billyoc]

1. I hope a few highly publicized incidents of corporal punishment will act as a deterrent.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Happens every war-- saw a load of them after Viet Nam, but...

nobody ever gave a shit about their barroom bragging.

[Bandit]

7. For anyone that had actuall been there they were very easy to discredit.

Only need to ask a very few questions and they expose themselves..

[patrice]

3. Military Fakers may also increase due to the advantage of Military Service in the jobs market.

Fewer jobs = increased padding of resumes. And the folks with the best paying jobs could also strongly favor Military Service.

[Vickers]

5. When I was in a position where I hired folks, I made it a condition

of the interview process for veterans to bring their DD-214 with them.

Funny how that was a stumbling point for many of them. :eyes:

(ftr, I am no longer in a position to hire people, so NO RESUMES PLEASE!)

:P

[Vickers]

4. That's why I encourage veterans to carry a copy of your DD-214 with you.

You can even get it shrunk down to wallet size.

It's a neat thing to flash at Chairborne Rangers.

:P

[TahitiNut]

6. Faux-veterans do far more damage than is generally understood.

In the early 80s, it became strangely 'fashionable' to declare one's self a Viet Nam veteran - at least for those who weren't Viet Nam veterans. In both the misconceived acceptance of their claims AND in sensing some of the falsehoods, the general public adopted attitudes far from rational regarding those of us who served. It's my guess that the average non-veteran has the majority of their perspective regarding Viet Nam veterans formed as a result of impressions gained from the misrepresentations of faux-veterans.

[Bandit]

8. Even Bush* described himself as a Vietnam Veteran

He explained it as he was a Veteran from the Vietnam era..Are NG's considered Veterans if they never served in Active duty status after their training?

[Aviation Pro]

9. As a matter of fact yes.....

...they are authorized to wear the Vietnam Service ribbon:

[TahitiNut]

13. I don't believe that's true.

AFAIK, one must have served at least 30 consecutive days actually IN Viet Nam (or air or sea) to qualify for the Vietnam Service Medal. Bush43 would NOT qualify.

3. Criteria: a. Awarded to all members of the Armed Forces of the United States serving in Vietnam and contiguous waters or airspace thereover, after 3 July 1965 through 28 March 1973. Members of the Armed Forces of the United States in Thailand, Laos, or Cambodia, or the airspace thereover, during the same period and serving in direct support of operations in Vietnam are also eligible for this award. To be eligible for award of the medal, individual must- -

(1) Be attached to or regularly serve for one or more days with an organization participating in or directly supporting military operations; or

(2) Be attached to or regularly serve for one or more days aboard a naval vessel directly supporting military operations; or

(3) Actually participate as a crewmember in one or more aerial flights into airspace above Vietnam and contiguous waters directly supporting military operations; or

(4) Serve on temporary duty for 30 consecutive days or 60 nonconsecutive days in Vietnam or contiguous areas, except that the time limit may be waived for personnel participating in actual combat operations.

b. Individuals qualified for the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal for service in Vietnam between 1 July 1958 and 3 July 1965 shall remain qualified for the medal. Upon request, the individual may be awarded the Vietnam Service Medal in lieu of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal. In such instances, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal will be deleted from the list of authorized medals in the individual’s personnel records. No person shall be entitled to both awards for Vietnam Service.

[Vickers]

17. I believe you're right. Anyway, if he had been awarded it, it should be

on his discharge paperwork (it's not).

The only picture I've seen of him that has ribbons, he is wearing a small arms qualification ribbon, and some sort of unit award (everybody in the squadron/group/wing gets it), neither of which are listed in the awards section of his discharge paperwork.

:eyes:

[patrice]

10. My perspective is formed from 4 out of my 5 brothers, 2 of whom are VN Veterans.

Plus there are 2 other VN Veterans who married into our family and several 3rd generation Military amongst my nieces and nephews. So I hear all kinds of stories. I also trained with all branches at Air Guard technical school and served in a re-fueling group for 11 years and quit when Gulf I ended.

There are ALL kinds of people in the military, everything from the most "noble" to those who are simply hiding from our dog-eat-dog job market. I think of the bell curve when I think of them as a group.

[MH1]

19. Kind of like Paul Morin, who became commander of the American Legion?

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003467772

Like Bush, he served during the Vietnam war, but not in Vietnam. (However, unlike Bush, there are no reports that Morin was AWOL). Yet he touted himself as a "Vietnam veteran", not a "Vietnam-era veteran" in his bio. Then he had the gall to trash John Kerry, a REAL Vietnam veteran and war hero. Slimeball.

[TahitiNut]

21. Yup. I've known a couple of wannabe's ...

... who did chairside duty in the Air Farce in Texas and repeatedly 'misspoke' calling themselves "Viet Nam veterans" and acted like "burdened returning warriors" with (faux) expertise. That Morin was one, given my opinion of the American Legion, wasn't surprising. (They've been total SHITS to Viet Nam veterans.) The American Legion, unlike the VFW, has not required ACTUAL 'boots on the ground' experience in a combat zone.

It's a painful and enraging thing to me. For the first decade after I returned from Nam on a cold November night, I was well-advised to "get over it" and "put it behind me" ... since the reception was anything but welcoming and NOBODY was interested in hearing about it. I was a leper. Among (former) friends and family I encountered embarrassed silences if the subject came up. (My family has NEVER exhibited interest in anything I might need to get off my chest. Never.)

Then ... after more than a decade of "passing" as a normal 'civilian' and keeping quiet about being a Viet Nam veteran ... I started encountering wandering HORDES of "Viet Nam veterans" either directly or indirectly (folks claiming to have a husband, brother, boyfriend, best friend, etc.) "who said" some pretty bizarre shit. It was around the time that The Wall went down on the Mall. Reagan era. Fucking insane. According to some sources, about 5-6 times as many folks were claiming (in one venue or another) to be Viet Nam veterans as actually served in Viet Nam. (About 2.6 million of us were there ... and less than 1 million are still alive.)

Since then, it's fairly disgusting how much misinformation and misperception I've encountered. But there's not much that can be done. (God forbid I tell anyone they're full of shit.)

[catnhatnh]

11. Yeah, that was me....

...I was Agent Orange.
Eddie Murphy in Trading Places

[Submariner]

12. Heaven forbid the SEALs catch a faker

The SEAL Teams tear fakers to pieces.

http://www.nightscribe.com/Military/SEALs/wannabe_seals.htm

In the submarine Navy I was in, no medals were awarded because they would be a dead giveaway of where the sub had been. It is part of where the Silent Service got it's name. Nowadays I see all kinds of fruit salad on even the lower (E-3) sub rates.

[arcadian]

15. Question: Can people in Special Boat Units or SEAL support make that claim?

That they are SEALS? I would guess not. I've heard people imply that they were SEALS and that they were "with the Teams" but further prodding revealed that they were with Special Boat Units.

[Aviation Pro]

16. If they haven't been through BUDS....

...if they haven't done advanced training, if they haven't spent the requisite six months of probationary period on the teams (they only acquire the SEAL trident after they complete this part) then they are not SEALS.

And that is my main problem with Erik "Blackwater Amway" Prince, his bio reads like a wannabe.

[Marr]

22. Why are there so many SEAL fakers? I swear--

I've met two, possibly three myself. I've never met a fake Green Beret. I'm around a lot more Army vets than Navy vets, too. I don't get it.

[Aviation Pro]

24. Probably because SEALS have been so romaticized in literature....

...they get the best press.

True story, I was walking on a beach in California recently when I noticed a long row of man-made dunes. Not thinking much of it, I continued on my walk only to be confronted by a DoD civilian guard who told me I had entered a restricted area and that I must turn around. I didn't understand that I had inadvertantly walked into the SEAL training area of the Navy's Amphibious Warfare Training Base in Coronado.

I won't make that mistake again.

[whistler162]

23. And they try and tear non-fakers like John Kerry

apart.

See the second to last paragraph which refrences Senator Kerry and the "stolenhonor" website.

[SmileyRose]

14. On the flip side

My dad enlisted in the 50's, spent 7 years feeding soldiers on base - was medically discharged and spent the rest of his life with a limp after being injured while in service (a truck driver pulled away from the dock just as Dad was straddling between the trailer and the truck unloading).

Dad was always one of those guys that stood up by himself in his living room, took off his hat and put his hand on his heart when they sang the National Anthem at TV broadcasts of ball games and NASCAR. He did that when we were kids. He would take us down to the VA several times a year and would go around with some small token (a case of pens, Mom's cookies, coupons for $1 off an oil change etc) and shake hands and thank guys for their service. Never once did he mention to any of them that he'd been in the military.

He never considered himself a veteran because he never fought in a war. He never considered himself worthy of VA benefits because he was not in a war and was not injured by being in a war. My Dad was the very definition of humility and modesty. When Dad was in his 80's he and mom hit some really hard times and Dad found out he could get his expensive heart medication from the VA for $7 a month so he gathered up his pride and went and asked. After spending the day at the VA he came to see he did honorably serve his country and had a right to be proud of his service - not that he bragged, of course.

I feel really sorry for the children of braggards and fakers who have no decency or honor.

[onethatcares]

18. my dad is the same

only ever talked about his time in the islands that were good, he was a radio operator on a PBY and he never talks about what he saw or did. One time, long ago, I had the timerity (sp) to call a certain race a certain name, he slapped me so hard I ended up in the next time zone. He words to me, " many of those people died for your right to stand right there, don't ever say that again".

He put my head on straight at that moment. Just thinking of that moment, I can see it like it was NOW.

Peace.

[Marr]

20. My friend was a Marine sniper in Baghdad. He won't talk about it at all.

Well- he did just a bit, and there's a reason he doesn't want to talk about it. He's not proud of it.