Are times really that bad already?

[MsTryska]

I hate to sound pollyanna-ish, but between everything I'm reading int he news, and the threads here on DU i'm kinda freaking out a bit.

I'm getting laid-off in Mid-Feb - I don't know how long I'll be able to wing it without another job. I do see job postings and have gotten called for at least one interview - but it was for a job I couldn't take. I find it hard to be really worried about not getting another job though - I'm good at what I do, and I'm a great interview - it has always served me well.

Either way - i don't see the economic signs every one else talks about. My dollar doesn't stretch as far, but gas prices are lower. I rent, so I guess the mortgage thing isn't really hitting me at the moment. My car is paid for, I don't really have huge credit card debt.

I'm still starting to feel panicky tho, because it seems like everyone else is panicking.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. We're forgoing New Year's this year. No money to do up a dinner like we

usually do.

[Xipe Totec]

2. Two lay offs, in less than two years.

and survived.

I've lost my fear of change now.

BRING IT ON!

[MsTryska]

11. yeah - I'm in IT

so i'm used to lay-offs every couple of years if not every year. I'm just nervous about the market this time, because every one else is wigging out it feels like.

[Xipe Totec]

20. My brother!

Go with the flow.

So far, my longest stint on the bench has been 4 weeks.

I have a friend in bio tech who spent more than two years before finding another job, and he had to move from Boston to Philadelphia to get it.

The, market in IS, even when it's bad, it's good...

[MsTryska]

22. That's sister to you...

but yeah - it's the usual story - which is why I'm not wigging out, but I am wigging out, because everyone's talking about the unemployment rates going up and whatnot.

The longest I was out was 3 months or so, post 9/11 - I worked a mcjob while the market wallowed, and then got a new gig, which ironically I had interviewed for the first week of the lay-off, and they went back and forth with the hiring decision, and came back to me when they got their funding squared.

[Xipe Totec]

26. My Sister!

Sorry, I always check geography, but seldom gender.

No offence? :hi:

[MsTryska]

28. None taken - easy mistake

it's still a male-dominated field. ;-)

[sandnsea]

3. 75% of America was employed

during the Depression. Sounds like you will be one of the employed this time around too, and that you're in good financial shape. If you have extra money, you probably ought to buy some stock. If you get offered a good job before this one is over, take it, don't feel any loyalty to your company because they sure don't have any loyalty to you.

[MsTryska]

10. Thank you for having a level head!

I did not realize 75% were employed during the depression. If that just right job offer comes along, I won't hesitate to take it, but I would like to hold out til the day they actually close the doors, so that I can get my severance. Free Salary makes for great savings.

The job I did interview for, they were pretty excited about me, but they were an hour away (i live in a metropolis), and it was overnights. I couldn't imaging making that drive back after being up all night. I'm not quite that desperate yet.

if i don't have to live off the severance - i will definitely be investing in some stock. Actually savings first - that is one place I am very nervous - I have no savings. Well maybe 2 weeks worth, but not enough that I won't need another job, or at least a cushion and unemployment to get by. I'm just glad the layoff coincides with tax return time.

[Hannah Bell]

88. no, 25%.

[Deja Q]

90. Unemployment was 25% so employment was 75%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression

[Hannah Bell]

92. my misreading, apologies.

[roamer65]

4. Are they giving you a severance package?

[MsTryska]

12. if i hang out

til the doors close yes, but it will only be one month. I've only been here a year tho.

[roamer65]

19. Dump 'em.

One month doesn't give you much opportunity to "double-dip" if you find another job. I was hoping you'd get six months or so like I did. I went and got a job as a contractor for 5 and 1/2 months of the severance period. The new company brought me in off from contractor to regular employee. I am IT as well.

Hang in there, you will find something and it will be better than this job!!!!

[MsTryska]

24. God i wish i was getting 6 months.

no such luck - i would like to double dip, if at all possible tho - that one month would be great in savings. I've been applying since earlier this month to places - the notice came down Dec 11th, but the holidays and 4th quarter BS is skewing the opportunities. If soemthing turns up that makes it worth it, I'm taking it no matter what, tho.

[roamer65]

30. I think you're handling it correctly.

If you find a new job, I would ask them to continue your salary till the closing date of your office. The worst they could say is "no".

Just food for thought.

[MsTryska]

31. There's a thought...

I doubt they would go for it, but it is soemthing I coudl throw out there. Or since we are coming up on january now, factoring at least 2 weeks, best case scenario, for the interview process, I could conceivably have a start date for the monday after this place closes and have my cake and eat it too. For now I think time is on my side.

[lib2DaBone]

5. Eventually, Americans will figure out who caused this economy..... and they will be PISSED!

[Belial]

6. Keep your head up!

I volunteer with a consumer credit counseling service.. you are in very good shape.. I know you don't feel like it with the job insecurity.. but hang in there and unlike your peers that didnt have money to start with and decided to rack up a debt they could never pay for.. you should feel good about that.

[MsTryska]

15. hey!

do I know you?

the name is familiar from another board I forum I used to visit.

And yeah - i screwed up my credit fresh out of college - I've been fixing it my entire adult life.

[scarletwoman]

7. I think they're very bad for a lot of people. Not everyone, obviously, but lots of people weren't

very smart in their financial decisions and now they are definitely suffering for it.

Most importantly, remember that the poor have been getting majorly fucked over for a very long time now, and it's only gotten worse.

Yay for those who have so far managed to not fall through the cracks -- but the cracks keep getting wider and deeper. There, but for the grace of god, and all that...

sw

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

8. I wouldn't panic.

It sounds like you're in good shape. Now if dogs and cats not only start living together but also start working on a rocket ship to flee the planet, then I'd worry.

[lonestarnot]

9. What do you do if you want to share...

[MsTryska]

17. I work in IT Support

The pickings are slim compared to the last time I was looking, but I have some really good experience.

[Cleita]

13. I went back to work after ten years of retirement, so you figure it out. n/t

[Muttocracy]

14. can your job be outsourced overseas? nt

[MsTryska]

18. Yes and No.....

some aspects of my job can and have been repeatedly. But there are other aspects that are hands-on and necessary on a day to day basis.

[fed_up_mother]

16. Things aren't "that" bad yet, but everyone is afraid of what's to come.

In fact, I live in an area that has been hit very little compared to the rest of the country, but restaurants are starting to look very barren. And people normally eat out a lot in this community.

It's scary.

[MsTryska]

21. Yes that I can see.

I have to admit, i've seen that as well, and experienced it myself, but I've been living this way for a couple of years now, not eating out, scrimping on getting the hair and nails done, etc - even moreso now. I'm really really trying to get the savings built to a decent level, but it feels like there only a few dollars left over every month.


Regardless of carrying low-debt - i'm still just a paycheck away as the saying goes...

[fed_up_mother]

82. Yeah, I know what you mean

"Everything" takes on significance these days. I purchased a gift for someone at a spectacular price (a $100 item for $32), but ended up not giving it to that person. Normally, I'd keep that gift in a heartbeat, but I find myself thinking that I don't really need it, even though I really want it. KWIM :dilemma:

[Deja Q]

91. what "may be" to come.

[virgogal]

23. We're in the most over-hyped recession ever. The doom and

gloom is constant.

Ignore it-----this too shall pass.

[roamer65]

25. You are right. It's nowhere near the 1982 recession.....yet.

1982 was bad, really bad.

[MsTryska]

29. Was it?

I was in Junior High then, actually i do vaguely remember ramen noodle and tuna fish dinners at that time. But my Dad wasn't making a whole lot of money to begin with then.

[roamer65]

32. Yup. I was a junior in high school.

I had to chop wood for our woodburner, because we couldn't afford fuel oil. My dad had lost his job and could only find odd jobs. I tried to find a part-time job so I could put a car on the road, but adults were taking them to feed their families. Unemployment in my hometown area of MI was around 17% back then. It was rough but taught me the value of a dollar.

[MsTryska]

34. That's when manufacturing really got hit too wasn't it?

I lived in Upstate NY at the time, so i'm guessing similar to certain areas of MI as far as the local economy goes. I remember strikes and the Carrier plant closing. Wasn't the Air Traffic Controller Strike going on around that time?

[roamer65]

38. Very similar MI and NY, yes. This talk reminds me of how much I hate Raygun and Volcker.

Raygun broke the PATCO air traffic controller union around that time. Raygun also increased the work requirement for unemployment benefits back then and screwed my Dad out of benefits. Paul Volcker's 21% interest rate stupidity made my Dad's factory close. Fuck both of them.

Too bad Obama has Volcker as an advisor. I wouldn't hire Volcker for any job. He's scum.

[sandnsea]

47. Volcker got inflation under control

And we're going to have to do the exact same thing again because you can't have the kind of housing and energy inflation we've just gone through, and went through then, and expect to have an economy that works for the people. In fact, it's the unchecked inflation, which they like to call "growth", that has hurt working people the most. That's the Greenspan economy and we do not need more of that.

[roamer65]

54. I favor job creation over inflation control.

Paul Volcker put thousands out of work and he's scum for it. All in defense of a stupid, fiat currency system.

[sandnsea]

58. Unemployment peaked in 1982

and went down from there. It had much less to do with interest rates than the same old labor busting practices that Republicans always engage in when they're in office. They were moving jobs from the north to the south, that's most likely where your dad's job went, for a short stop until it went to Mexico or China.

[roamer65]

63. Incorrect. Volcker's rate increases turned the 1979-80 recession into a "double dip"

The first dip in 1979-80 was not that severe and we were pulling out of it. His rate increases shoved us right back into recession by 1981.

Volcker was a Carter appointment and I bet Jimmy regrets that selection to this day.

[sandnsea]

67. No, you're incorrect

Actually, 1975 had bad unemployment numbers too. Things improved from there, but the numbers were still bad despite Carter creating more jobs than Reagan did, although he couldn't control the massive numbers of boomers and vets entering the job market who didn't yet have disposable income. They did, however, create quite a demand which pushed prices up up up - that and the energy crisis. Now if you don't want this to go off the charts and burst into a bubble, like we just had, then you have to slow it and the only way to slow it is to make money harder to get, raise interest rates. The incredibly stupid part was Reagan cutting taxes at the same time, which is what really extended the recession.

No, that's not what you learned in Econ101, but that doesn't make it any less true.

[roamer65]

72. LOL...keep defending Volcker. He'll show his ways again, mark my words.

He believes in a "strong dollar" and will throw the entire country out of work to achieve it. You actually want a weak dollar in a recession, not a strong one.

Bernanke's ideology of "inflation targeting" is light years beyond what Volcker's puny little brain could ever understand. There is nothing wrong with an inflation rate of 10% if jobs are being created.

[sandnsea]

73. We had a strong dollar in the 90s

You've been hanging around too many right wingers.

[roamer65]

76. You're defending a staunch, right wing monetarist like Volcker and

I am hanging around right wingers too much? LOL.

Nite.

Wiki on Volcker:

However, the change in policy contributed to the significant recession the U.S. economy experienced in the early 1980s, which included the highest unemployment levels since the Great Depression, and Volcker's Fed also elicited the strongest political attacks and most wide-spread protests in the history of the Federal Reserve (unlike any protests experienced since 1922), due to the effects of the high interest rates on the construction and farming sectors, culminating in indebted farmers driving their tractors onto C Street NW and blockading the Eccles Building.<6>

[sandnsea]

79. Volcker is a Keynesian demand side economist

who was stuck with Reaganomics that do not work, as we clearly see by the last 8 years of cutting taxes and shifting all the money to the upper class. Yikes. Please don't think you know something from reading Wiki.

[NutmegYankee]

95. What good is a job with massive inflation?

Your pay won't keep up, and everything you buy gets more and more expensive each month. There was a recession with inflation - so wages are dropping but goods were going up in price. You are losing ground each month in that situation.

Killing that inflation (stagflation) was a must.

[sendero]

93. You really don't understand economics..

.... I'm sorry you were hurt but Volcker was the best Fed chairman in recent history. He cause misery to a handful, Greenspan, by the time his policies play out, will have caused misery to half the country.

[sandnsea]

35. This is worse

You just don't know it because the numbers weren't fudged back then. We have a much bigger national debt, no boomer generation to push an economy, everybody is in debt up to their eyeballs, the banking industry has collapsed, there's no jobs to outsource for the corporations to make more profits from, this is so much worse.

[roamer65]

40. Not yet...but it definitely has the potential to replace the 1982 recession...

as the worst. I am calling this one the Great Recession already.

[sandnsea]

44. It was a recession a year ago

which they just informed us of last month - so if we've been in recession for a year - what else would you call November and December except Depression?

Unless they figure out how to get credit flowing again, this is going to be unlike anything you've ever dreamed of.

[lonestarnot]

51. We are in a world of shit no doubt about it. Gawd I hate looking at it in printed medium.

:(

[roamer65]

52. July 1981 - November 1982 was the run of the last leg of that "double -dip" recession.

If we are still posting negative GDP numbers by Q4 2009, then I will be a bit worried. There is a big difference between 1982 and now. The Fed has dropped the funds rate to zero and is now hyperinflating the money supply. In contrast, the Fed was constricting the money supply in 1982.

What I am expecting is that by Q3 or Q4 2009 we will again be posting positive GDP numbers, but shortly after inflation will go begin to go through the roof, due to the massive money supply growth. They will hike interest rates to try to kill inflation off and back we will go into recession.

I am expecting a double-dip recession/depression, basically. Especially since that fuckhead Volcker has Obama's ear.

[SoCalDem]

87. and we trust their "numbers", because???

I mean they have been right all along...? right?? right??

How come WE saw this train coming down the track YEARS ago, and all the brainiac money-guys in business & government never saw it coming??

why?

because figures lie, and liars figure..

they don't like the numbers, so they "readjust them" or just change the parameters and tell us everything's ok..

[Skittles]

66. WTF??

who the fuck are you kidding? IT IS MUCH WORSE NOW

[MsTryska]

27. Thank you....

I guess the media has nothing better to do.


In ways it feels like 9/11 again - Terra Terra, National Security, Shoe Bomb, Threat Level Orange!

[Bigmack]

36. With all respect...

Guys like Roubini, Krugman, and Stiglitz are saying this is big... really big.

Haven't you noticed all the "The worst since...(some year far in the past)" statistics coming out?

I'm not a gloom and doomer, but guys with a lot of smarts and experience currently are.

Name a few smart and experienced economists (Larry Kudlow doesn't count) who think this recession is over-hyped.

[virgogal]

50. You mentioned "the worst since------" . I've lived through them

all and have never seen such 24/7 hysteria in any of the previous recessions.

[sandnsea]

60. 40% of people returning gifts to buy food

Which recession did you see that in? I never did.

[Bigmack]

81. You lived thru the Depression?

Worst drop in the market since then. I'm only 65, but I've never seen the banks fail, the housing market drop like a rock, the credit market freeze up, and the Big Three go on welfare. Just how long have you been around?

Please deal with the question of who is doing the "hype" on this one. I'm not quoting the National Enquirer, I'm quoting Roubini, Krugman, and Stiglitz.(and others) Those guys aren't drama queens, and they think it's gonna set records.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. We'll see. I hope you're right, even though you're not.

http://www.theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/

[bevoette]

33. "i am the consumer i have been waiting for" LOL

but really...that just dawned on me a few weeks ago

i have been pretty tight with our household purse strings = "consumer confidence is down"

i had not connected those two points, for some reason :shrug:


we took a $30,000 cut about a year ago - it was involuntary, but totally unrelated to the economy.

i was freaked...but both cars got paid off in the same month. we cut out most travel, super-expensive dinners, new 'gadgets' (mostly husband, LOL)...and have really been okay.


we have been wanting/needing to do some work on the house. we were able to do some energy-efficiency upgrades this year, but we need some additional work.

anyways, so back in the fall, i just decided: if Obama won, i was going to have faith, and go ahead with some work. we should be able to get some good deals now, anyway, heh

if i'm responsible for consumer confidence, i decided i need to try and improve it :)


honestly, i don't know if it really is that bad, or if we just live in a 'protected' area, or if it's 80% fear-mongering :shrug: but we've been overly careful for right at about a year now, and everything's been okay...give thanks daily for our blessings, though! :)

[MsTryska]

39. Me Too!

I took a paycut as well about a year and a half ago, but ironically I bring home just about the same as I did in my previous job (i dropped a tax-bracket). I needed a "vacation" job from my usual positions, and this one was right around the corner from my house and allowed me schedule flexibility as well as a task-change that i mentally needed.

I never lost the mindset that I am making a lot less than usual. Where things get tricky is that my bills just doubled because my room-mate moved out. I can still make it all (barely) on my current salary, but it does mean scrimping and saving, and not getting my nails done and not eating out every day, and I colored my own hair for the first time ever this past weekend. It was thrilling! I never knew I could do it all by myself for just $10. But that means my hairstylist takes a hit in her earnings. As does my pedicure lady, and local restaurants around here, and my favorite bartender.

I am also that consumer. *lol*

[Muttocracy]

42. If you've been able to spend money on pedicures, manicures, restaurants, etc.

than you're probably doing far better than most Americans, so maybe things aren't that bad for you. A lot of Americans don't have a tax bracket to drop!

[MsTryska]

49. Yeah I always try to remember that

when I am feeling under-acheivey. I don't have a lot to show for it, but I did manage to get myself from homeless at one time, to comfortably middle-class - I never quite lose the fear of not having a roof, but I wish I had more paranoia about not having healthy savings.

[sandnsea]

48. Ack!!

How much do you have in savings, 401K, and life insurance?

[bevoette]

53. funny you mention insurance - we just upped ours this month

my husband is 17 years older than me

i am completely obsessed w/ life insurance :blush: LOL

[MsTryska]

65. posted in the wrong spot....

nt

[MsTryska]

70. Hmmm...

this is where we run into problems.

The minimum Life Insurance that comes with my benefits. Since I have no dependents and no assets, I don't carry a lot of life insurance - I prefer to spend on disability insurance instead.

401K is a pathetic couple grand - with the financial meltdown (i'm in my 30s - provided the next job pays enough to really save - I will probably invest aggressively since stocks are on fire sale)

Savings - i got about 2 weeks, with the tax return it will be another 1 month - this is what has me the most concerned.

[sandnsea]

74. Oh, tsk tsk tsk

:spank:

By your 30s, you really should be financially sound, if you've got the kind of paycheck that can get you there and you certainly do if you're eating out every day and getting manicures and pedicures.

I hope you realize how fortunate you are to be able to live your life free from financial worry. Take advantage of it as quickly as you can.

[MsTryska]

77. I know!

I've stopped all that now. Especially now that the bills have doubled - luckily I never had to dip into credit cards to do all of that - but I never saved either.

And on the bright side - i actually have money leftover from paycheck to paycheck so it's rolling up slowly - it took my a year to get to 2 weeks. (that's 600 bucks, give or take - so about 50 dollars a month? - i could have done better). But hopefully if i can time everything just right with a new job, even if it's at this same pay-rate, with the severance and that income tax money, that will bump me up to two and half months savings, and then I'm almost halfway to the magical 6 month number!

[Muttocracy]

37. the absolute unemployment % isn't setting records, but the trend is alarming...

and others know more about this than me, but my impression is that this doesn't count under-employed (part-time, far below qualifications) and those who've given up looking. This also doesn't reflect the coming state and local government cuts.

In New York City and NYS:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/18/unemployment-keeps-rising-in-new-york/?scp=2&sq=unemployment&st=cse

December 18, 2008, 1:19 pm
Unemployment Keeps Rising in New York
By Patrick McGeehan

New York State lost more private-sector jobs in November than in any month in more than seven years, the state’s Department of Labor said on Thursday. The unemployment rate rose to a four-year high of 6.1 percent.

In New York City, the unemployment rate jumped to 6.3 percent from 5.7 percent in October, as the traditional pre-holiday hiring spree barely happened this year. That was the city’s highest unemployment rate since February 2005.

Retailers hired only about half as many temporary workers as usual, while jobs in hotels, restaurants and theaters declined in November for the first time on record, according to James Brown, an analyst with the Labor Department.

The state’s unemployment rate, which had been 5.7 percent in October, is, like the city’s, adjusted for seasonal fluctuations in hirings and firing. On a seasonally-adjusted basis, the state lost 23,500 jobs in November, the largest month-to-month drop since October 2001, in the wake of the 9-11 terrorist attack.

The city and state unemployment rates are still below the national rate, which rose to 6.7 percent last month, but the gap is closing as more employers respond to the deepening recession by cutting payrolls. Many of the thousands of laid-off workers from the city’s financial services industry have begun showing up in the official statistics as they exhaust their severance payments.

First-time claims for unemployment benefits have also been rising steadily in recent months. On Thursday, the federal Labor Department said that the number of new claims in New York state rose by 11,601 in the week that ended Dec. 13.

On Wednesday, the Department of Labor and Workforce Development in New Jersey said that state’s unemployment rate rose to 6.1 percent in November from 6 percent in October. New Jersey lost 6,200 private-sector jobs during the month, it said.

[MsTryska]

83. OK....back to panicking...

if government jobs are going it is pretty sucky.

[pa28]

41. Sounds like you played your cards well and now you are reaping the benefits.

The people getting it worst seem to be the over-leveraged, the indebted, the people who were right on the edge the of the cliff and living paycheck to paycheck. The working poor (and there are a lot of them) who were doing pretty badly anyway.

But let's consider the people who actually have financial assets and safe jobs. If 2009 turns out worse than 2008 they'll continue to see the value of their assets contract along with the economy. For most people the fear and panic that goes along with loss is a big deal. Say you've saved and invested and bought into the fictional story that stocks go up forever in the long term and all you have to do is buy "blue chips" and wait. You've bought a house responsibly, not borrowed against and have a ton of equity and yet you see it sliding away - talk to people like that and they might say yes, it really is pretty bad. If it gets worse, as I think it will, you'll have some people who feel betrayed. They played by the rules and lived up to the bargain as they understood it and yet they their idea of a secure future and early retirement is being ground up in the bear-market butcher shop.

In any case I'm glad you are not panicking. It's really annoying when people do that :( but if you look around I'm sure you'll find there is plenty of pain out there and it's getting worse.

[MsTryska]

46. I am a paycheck to paycheck person tho

Like i said - i keep the general expenses low-enough that I can survive, but the savings is nowehre near where it needs to be - so I'm not in great shape - just not completely on the edge of the cliff. I've been in worse places in the past, let's put it that way. At least I have a heads up this time.


But yes - i definitely feel worried for those who have to start living off their retirement savings now, or still have it in the market and need it again in a few years. It sucks when you do everything right, and still have to experience the fallout from it.

[whitewinged1]

43. Are times really that bad already

A little while back US congress closed it's doors to the media and the public for the fourth time since it's inception. Why you ask. Well it's quite simple really,it was due to the sensitive nature of the topic. The inevitable complete economic and financial collapse of the United States economy within one year and the public response to such catastrophic news..They also discussed the implementation of martial law to keep control of what promises to be a very upset nation of people. Fema has already built "facilities" in each and every state to deal with "the unruly and uncooperative or rebelious citizens" who do not willingly follow orders or directions. This is the main reason for the North American Union, the merger of Mexico, Canada, and the US. Mexico for it's cheap labor pool and Canada for it's natural resources. They have already started producing the new monetary unit" The Amero " The mainstream media is not covering these topics so as not to panic the masses but all the info or proof if you will is on the internet you just have to open your eyes and look. For example c span , youtube and various other media avenues that are not mainstream. You just have to do a little homework as i have. But a word of warning , you will not like what you find.

[bevoette]

45. oh, lordy (nm)

[marketcrazy1]

71. as far fetched as this sounds

I have to agree with the basic premise of your post, and that is ( as i see it ) that the U.S.A. is in DEEP trouble,and the government knows but are not telling us everything so as to avoid or lessen panic. I began researching problems in the banking and financial sector in august of 07, it only took a month or so to see the magnitude of the coming collapse, at easter dinner this year I told my older brother what i was learning, i told him then that the entire banking system was on the verge of collapse, he though i had a screw loose!then we saw indymac, wachovia,wamu,bearstearns,lehman and AIG go down, I told him the economy would be THE major focus of the election by september and that the federal funds rate would go to 1 percent. ( went there a month later than i thought ) in july my friend was talking about bying stock in GM, then trading at around 20 bucks a share! I told him GM would be bankrupt by the end of the year! HE actualy SAID i was nuts! to my face!... you are right about one thing, there is a HUGE amount of info available at our finger tips via the internet and I am seeing many MASSIVE financial disasters coming down the pike. we are not even half through this crisis, there will be NO RECOVERY in 2009. I fear not even the president elect can stop whats coming, all the FED and Treasury have done is delay the crash wich will make things worse and harder to overcome in the long run.

[whitewinged1]

84. The Fed is the reason the economy is in the shape that it is

The FED and the Treasury are not government institutions. They are privately owned tax exempt corporate pirates who print money out of thin air. They then loan it out with debt attached to every dollar. They lend money to the US government and in exchange the government gives US savings bonds. The FED have accomplished finally what they have for at least a century been trying to do.Put the people and government of the US so far into debt with them that it is impossible to get out of . They control the interest rates , they balloon inflation they set the price of gold { as do the Rothschilds in Europe, they have corned the worlds gold market) The Rothschilds hide behind such corporate powers such as JP Morgan etc.,while David Rockefeller and friends { The FED and Central Bankers } systematically dismantle the economic infrastructure of the US economy.The housing bubble in the US? all orchestrated by the FED, They give out loans to the smaller banks , the smaller banks give out loans to every Tom, Dick, and Harry to buy homes , people are lulled into a false sense of times are good there is lots of money to buy and build homes, then the FED tightens the noose and calls in their loans from the small banks who in turn call in from the people who of course can't pay and the banks repossess millions and millions of homes.. And the FED have now just made untold millions of dollars from unsuspecting hopeful new homeowners. Illegal or not this is exactly what happened. They are the ones who make the decisions on what happens in the US (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain) They now own it " Give me control of a countries finances and i care not who it's law makers are" ( look this quote up or google it) This is far bigger than Anyone could possibly imagine. Brace yourself because " Times , they are a changin " Bob Dylan Something wicked this way comes and i can assure you " We the people" are NOT going to like what we see Have a look on Youtube And search these keywords
.
NWO
FEMA coffins
Fema concentration camps
Martial law

[Muttocracy]

55. States running out of unemployment insurance $$

States’ Funds for Jobless Are Drying Up - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/us/15funds.html includes graphic:

[roamer65]

56. Great opportunity for quantitative easing!!!

The Fed will just create the money for the states.

[Muttocracy]

57. I know zip about economics but that sounds wrong to me :)

[roamer65]

61. We have no choice at this point, unfortunately.

Either create the money or the states go broke.

Roll them presses, baby!!!

[Muttocracy]

62. but I assume that's a game you can only play for so long

before you get inflation or something?

[roamer65]

64. Bingo.

But I don't mind a 10-20% inflation rate as long as jobs are being created. Eventually we just change the currency's name and move the zeros.

[Muttocracy]

75. I'd rather see sustainability than that. nt

[Hannah Bell]

89. in a deflation, "printing money" doesn't = inflation.

[InvisibleTouch]

59. Well, I'm choosing between heat and food this winter...

...and it's quite a toss-up. First priority is pet food, they are always fed; me, I can skip a few meals. :) I'm not panicky about it, though. I know I can hang in there, and things will get better. But right at the moment times are bad, people just don't have money to spend.

[MsTryska]

68. I feel lucky to not have to worry about

heating bills - living in the temperate south. That would definitely skew the curve, altho I suppose A/C gets us int he summer, but to me A/c is luxury I can do without. heat, not so much.

Can you stock up on rice and beans and oats - if you have dogs, you can feed them oats or rice with organ meats and they'll be okay too. Cats unfortunately need more meat, so it's hard to stint with them.

[InvisibleTouch]

78. I keep meaning to move south...

...because I like it hot, and I don't run my AC in the summer anyway, so I know I'd be golden in Florida year-round. It's just a matter of those bothersome financial details that keep me stuck in the frozen northland at the moment.

Yeah, I'm pretty good at stretching a dollar, cooking from scratch with cheap but healthy ingredients, and I do some raw/homecooked feeding for my dogs which actually turns out to cost less than the premium kibble that has shot way up in price lately. And I won't feed them the cheap junk, because I know I'd have vet bills in a few years. So we will hang in here, and things will get better. My completely inexpert prediction: in 6 months the country will be starting on an upward curve - slowly, perhaps, but starting.

[MsTryska]

80. i raw-feed and homecook

primarily too - but I have one cat - so it's manageable - and WAY WAY cheaper than kibble and vet food. he still gets kibble - but One bag of the premium natural stuff will last him a month.

[GreenTea]

85. This Bush-Republican depression....

is hurting everyone, except the rich republican thieves and it will get worse thanks to Bush & republican ideology (corporations first, no rules, no regulations, no watchdogs and no responsibility for destruction and pollution of our lands, air, water & wildlife).

Anything to help the rich, who've already have the money, fuck the workers poor & middle class....thats republican ideology and what caused this depression!

[SoCalDem]

86. If you are without debt, and can find work, you'll be fine

BUT as more and more people start defaulting on their credit cards, and as the rest of the sub-primes re-set in March and for the next THREE YEARS...things will get worse..

empty houses mean low tax revenue, which means layoffs & reduced services, which means more city./county.state employees who will start defaulting..

more people in the community unemployed means fewer sales tax revenues and higher taxes for people who DO have incomes..and it means that service venues lose business and start closing up..and more places that used to pay taxes, that now arent;.. patrolling all those empty places takes more effort from law enforcement (and they are getting cut too)

It takes a while for this vortex to fill up, but once it starts spinning, it gets bigger & bigger and is harder to stop..

[GreenInNC]

94. laid off two weeks ago

first time since I graduated 22 years ago I don't have a job

[a la izquierda]

96. I'm a historian. If I worried about everything...

bad in the world, I'd hang myself. Hell, I have students freaked out about the 2012 Mayan calendar. I'm not. But I've also been fortunate, so I can't complain.

As my husband always says: "Do what you can to stay stable and relax. The rest is out of our hands and there's no point in worrying yourself sick about it." He told me that not long after 9-11-01, when I was so panicked about the end of the world that I was having daily panic attacks and afraid to leave his side. It's been good advice so far.