Smoking ban proves difficult to enforce

[The Straight Story]

Smoking ban proves difficult to enforce
Few complaints result in fine or citation

...

(Ohio) It ranks at the top when it comes to people complaining about smoking violations since Ohio began enforcing the ban 18 months ago.

With 208 complaints filed against it - primarily by its own members - the lodge has been ticketed twice. One of them was for a fine of $500. Both tickets are under appeal.

"We were getting a bad rap," Van Winkle said. "We have close to 10,000 members in and out of the facility in any given week. So we are going to get a lot of hits."

At a time when places like the Moose Lodge feel picked on, statistics provided by the Ohio Department of Health hint at problems with enforcing the ban.

According to the data, 60 percent of complaints between May of last year and Dec. 15 were investigated by county health departments or the state; 5 percent of those resulted in citations and fines. About 40 percent of complaints went uninvestigated.

...

Staffing isn't the only issue, said Daniel Collins, director for environmental health in Warren County. The way the system is set up, it could be days before inspectors get to the complaints, making them often impossible to verify.


http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081229/NEWS01/812290319

[aquart]

1. Well, if they're determined NOT to enforce it, there you are.

But smoking bans always begin with massive violations as people confuse cigarettes with their dicks.

However, since decreased smoking benefits blood vessels, the dick improvements soon outweigh the skinny little cigarettes.

It just takes time. Rome wasn't de-limped in a day.

[Mari333]

2. from the article

'"For us to collect a $100 fine, we have to spend $500 to $600 of the taxpayer's money," he said.

As of December, Warren County has responded to 233 complaints. But no one has received a fine.

About 80 percent of complaints aren't legitimate, Collins said. People try to turn businesses in for smokers who are legally puffing outside or on a patio.' :wtf:

jesus. what a waste of tax money.

[Fumesucker]

18. Simple solution..

Raise the fine to $1000..

Still cheaper than going to jail just for having pot in your possession.

[Ian David]

3. This is easy. You just rig smoke detectors to sprinkler systems filled with kerosene. n/t

[Kalyke]

4. I know! How 'bout we just let business owners decide if they want to allow smoking!

:think:

If they don't, non-smokers can go to those establishments - those who do allow it will be packed with those who either smoke or want to be with their smoking friends.

[drm604]

7. What about the employees of those establisments who don't want to choke on secondhand smoke all day?

Before you say it, no they can't just work elsewhere, jobs aren't always that easy to find.

[Kalyke]

9. You don't know too many restaurant service workers do you?

I'd venture that 75 percent of them smoke.

The other 25 percent can go work at the non-smoking establishments.

Jobs in the service industry are still relatively easy to find due to turn-over.

[drm604]

12. Do you have a cite for your statistics?

Of the people I've known over my life who worked in restaurants, some smoked and some didn't. I never bothered to count them up and keep records. Even if I did, my relatively small sampling wouldn't have any statistical validity.

Even if your percentages are correct, and you haven't shown that they are, where are the 25% going to find work? I'm skeptical that 25% of establishments ban smoking when they're not required to.

In any case, people should be able to base their employment choices, as much as possible, on things like pay and benefits. They shouldn't have to base their decision on whether or not they're willing to choke on smoke from burning leaves.

[SoCalDem]

19. and if they know in advance that people will/might be smoking there, and they agree

to sign paperwork stating that they knew BEFORE they went to work there, the business would be protected from lawsuits later.. If a person does not want to, or cannot work around smoking, they can always work somewhere else.. Not every job is a fit for every person....ask the pharmacists who refuse to sell birth control...or the public school science teachers who insist on teaching creation "science"..

[XemaSab]

5. I think the smoking ban

was one of the BEST things to happen to California.

[JDPriestly]

6. I also love it (the ban in Cal.). I used to have to work in an office with a chain-smoking boss.

Ugh!!!! The problem is that no one smokes alone -- unless they are outside.

[Tikki]

8. Truly helped me quit smoking...

the California ban was the best thing to happen....

I quit over 4 years ago..

Tikki...

[Kalyke]

10. It's really hurt restaurants in Tennessee.

And this is before the economy fell apart.

People won't stay at restaurants and drink anymore - they go to the over 21 bars where you can still smoke or they get their booze and go home where they can smoke.

Restaurants here are having to build beer gardens to keep patrons.

[BB1]

11. Smoking is quite stupid. I still do

smoke all kinds of stuff, silly of me of course. Although I'm glad I smoke roll-ups and don't drink any diet-soda.
For sure the smoking ban is hurting bar-owners, and not only in the US. It's kind of pathetic.

[drm604]

13. Hurting bar owners?

Do you have a cite for that?

People have stopped drinking with their friends simply because they can't smoke? I could be wrong but I'm a little skeptical of that.

[BB1]

20. Oh, it's quite right.

Official estimates range from 20 to 30% losses. We're at a breaking point, several influencial organisations have voiced complaints. The bar I work every now and then has seen a drop of 30%, and breaks the rules occasionally - ashtrays back on the tables with closed doors.

I'll try and get some links, but how good is your Dutch?;)

[soulcore]

14. Now all you smokers know how us tokers feel...

...always having to hide in the shadows or at home just to enjoy OUR buzz of choice.

Ban it all I say! Why should ANYONE be able to indulge their vices?!

[Fumesucker]

17. LOL, We hid from our parents...

Then we hid from our kids..

Now we are hiding from our grandkids.

Or at least we were Christmas day when we took our son in law out in the back forty and got him buzzed.

If there's one thing a successful toker knows how to do it's hide. :rofl:

[billyoc]

15. The New York smoking ban is the best thing that ever happened to me.

Now you can tell who the bad girls are just by walking past the bar, you don't even have to go in.


I'm just sayin' what everybody was thinking. :hi:

[SoCalDem]

16. The solution is for the members who still smoke, to have their own get-togethers

in the homes of other members.. It's what people out here did and do.. The ones who still want to smoke and drink (at the same time), just quit going to the bars, and now entertain at home..Saves money too.. The bar owners who can attract new non-smoking patrons do that..the other ones..well they closed up.

These days, many people have big screen tvs, so they can watch the sporting events in the comfort of their own homes, and light up if they want ..and so can their bar-buddies..

If the Moose Lodge loses a significant number of members who object to the smoking ban, they will just have to re-evaluate the need for them to continue to exist.. It's nothing personal...it's just "biddness":)

[Odin2005]

21. The Minnesota smoking ban hurt business at my mom's little rural bar.

So the people that say that the claims that the bans didn't hurt business can STFU now.