Labor unions built this country

[Omaha Steve]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/2008/12/27/20081227satlets275.html

Dear Linda Dewalt, your letter ("Unions need to go away quickly," Thursday) on how arrogant unions are just goes to show how much you need to be educated about how unions built America.

First, they keep quality workers building your homes or driving your buses and trains. They assist police and firefighters who save lives.

Second, unions help keep businesses from hiring non-qualified persons.

Third, did I not hear one of the CEOs from the Big Three say he made "$22 million a year" and felt it was appropriate even though his company is going broke and needs our money to pay for his mismanagement.

I'm proud to be a union member of Local UTU 1081 for BNSF railway. Better yet, it is my union brothers and sisters who keep the saying "Built in America" true and strong. We need unions for the sake of the economy and for America to be the industrial leader it once was. - Stephen Nolan,Avondale

[tbyg52]

1. Hear, hear!

:applause:

[firedupdem]

2. Amen! Yes they did! n/t

[Trajan]

3. I had a thought this week ...

Unions have had their greatest impact since the 40's, being part of the recovery from the Great Depression .... They had helped raise the standard of living for common workers and their families ever since ....

Unions staffed the great factories in the heyday of heavy US manufacturing ... companies like GE, GM, Ford, Boeing, Douglas and the like, along with trade unions that covered the construction trades, and Teamsters, who represented the transportation sector: In short: Unions lifted the wages, aspirations AND the buying power of American families, and created an economic powerhouse which fed the economy with the 'stimulus' of their substantial pay, which put smaller businesses to work making the goods and providing the services that American families could now afford to buy ...

I realized that; We have ridden that wave of economic empowerment ever since .... The continual recycling of wealth through the hands of workers bought the homes that were built, and the cars that were assembled, and drove the economic engine through decades of the 'good times' that our parents and their parents enjoyed since the 40's ....

It is THAT success that unions helped bring to reality ... THAT success that lifted the standard of living for common families for decades .... It is THAT success that has been stifled, through stingy, mediocre wage increases, the reduction of other benefits and compensation, and the incessant gouging of certain industries that have found the favor of the powerful ...

When I see the current situation; the degenerating economy that is apparently unable to sustain the cycle of worker income > consumer purchase ... I see the end of an era ....

Workers and their families had an extraordinary run of success ... Some 70 years .... A run that is perhaps unprecedented in the number of middle class children that were educated and relatively low level of poverty affecting families .... To think poor folk could actually work and make enough money to feed their families AND obtain a college degree ... THAT was unthinkable prior to the 30's ....

That run could very well be ending now ....

I laughed to myself when I heard a right winger refer to 'Small Business' as the savior of the American economy .... Nonsense: Small business could NOT sustain the economic activity that powered the last generations and brought such a high level of material success .... 'Small Business' depends on WORKERS to buy the homes and have the expendable income to buy their services .... They will fail QUICKER than mighty industry if workers stop buying goods ..... We need INCOME in order to 'buy stuff' .... and that is what we lack now, thanks to the right wing labor philosophy that has affected the workplace for the last 3 decades ....

The snowball began rolling some 7 decades ago ... and that snowball is melting fast, and nearly done rolling .....

Just some thoughts from this week ....

[1]

4. well, no... pretty much slave labor/unorganized repressed labor built this country...

unions made things better for the worker.

but that was pretty much after the fact of "building this country..."

[Trajan]

6. I guess we need some definitions here ....

Explain 'built this country' ...

[1]

7. don't ask me. ask the op...

do we go back to "columbus sailing the ocean blue" or the "pilgrims landing at plymouth rock" as some sort of beginning? the revolutionary war? 1776?

i don't know. its whatever the op decides. but from some point you "build."

and the union movement in america, as important as it is, was how important in this "building?"


america was pretty much fully baked by the time unions started to change the slave state to a union state.




but i might be wrong. and i hope the op sets me straight.

[Trajan]

10. At the end of the Civil War

Most people lived in hovels or cabins, and either farmed, or hunted for food. Most of the modern institutions of society did not yet exist yet. ... Nothing was 'built' ....

Imagine the state of society if such conditions were the norm now ....

The status of common citizens didnt rise above 'poverty stricken' until AFTER the Depression ....

I consider the foundation of American society ... that which has been 'built', to begin during the FDR Administration .... Through the establishment of PROGRESSIVE policies that favored workers, and protected their interests in the workplace ....

Until then .... Most common citizens had little of anything but poverty and want, exposed to harsh nature, and without the safety nets that have since been 'built' through PROGRESSIVE economic policies that 'built' the medical and academic institutions that brought change to the downtrodden masses ...

INCOME is what allowed citizens to rise above degrading poverty, and we have unions to thank for that ....

[1]

14. "At the end of the Civil War"...

"Most people lived in hovels or cabins, and either farmed, or hunted for food. Most of the modern institutions of society did not yet exist yet. ... Nothing was 'built' .... "

my god! is that what they taught you in public school? most people lived in hovels or cabins? in 1865? nothing was built? most of the modern institutions of society did not yet exist?

madon...

your knowledge of history is, frankly, disturbing and saddening. the united states of america did not begin with the fdr administration.

i'll say no more. no more can be said...

[Trajan]

20. Explain ....

Your objection is not fully explained ....

Please flesh out your argument, and refute the points with facts ....

[apocalypsehow]

22. I wouldn't hold my breath - that poster is obviously just trying to piss on the OP's assertion by

pretending to be "nuanced" to the vagaries of American history. I've noticed lots of, er, ummm, "concerned"-type posters are like that....

[1]

36. please do not "hold your breath", as your intentions are clear. breath dear one... n/t.

[1]

35. i did. read the above post. YOUR agument need work... n/t.

[Thothmes]

42. Nothing was built?

The Federal Government had equipped and armed one million men to restore the union and end slavery. Northern factories were capable of building the 1000 ships in our Navy, producing the thousands of stand of arms, artillery, uniforms and other equipment need for our armies. Within two years after the war, the transcontinental railroad was completed. That took iron mills and mines with very large capacity. Since these men were not in the fields, industry produced thousands of reapers and multbottom plows to improve agriculture. Ya, they built nothing.

[ColbertWatcher]

9. No, that was after the "starting" of this "country" ...

Maybe you should explain what you mean when you say "built" and what you think the phrase "this country" means?

[1]

11. built. verb. to establish. to construct. to form. to create.

what is your definition?

and "this country?"

i assumed we were discussing the united states of america.


why all of these sharp questions? are we lawyers here?


what part of "built this country" am i misunderstanding? in reference to "labor unions?"

do y'all want to explain yourselves?

[ColbertWatcher]

13. To me, it seems you think "built" means "started."

Because as far as I'm concerned, we are still "building" this country.

Oh, and I think "this country" means how we define ourselves, both in land mass, law and culture.

Which, as you can see, we're still working on.

[Two Americas]

38. unbelieveable

"Unions" represent the workers. That is the whole point. They are an expression of the workers.

Workers built the country. Unions represent us as workers. The stringer the Unions, the better off the workers did, and the more prosperous the country. In other words, Unions - Labor, the workers, especially when organized - built the country.

Your attempts to separate Unions from the working class, or deny that they represent workers, is an anti-Labor argument. Have the courage to make that argument honestly and stop playing games.

Are you opposed to organized Labor, yes or no? Do you see Unions as representative of the workers, yes or now? Do you see organized labor as the best way to give workers a voice and representation, yes or no?

[Breeze54]

5. So true, Omaha Steve and thank you for carrying on!!

:yourock:

:kick: & Recommended!

[ColbertWatcher]

8. Thank you for posting this letter. kick and rec. n/t

[Omaha Steve]

12. Unions were technically illegal in the US until 1938, but that didn't stop them

The FLSA stands for the Fair Labor Standards Act. It became a Federal law shortly after the Depression, in 1938. That was the door that opened unions to finally organize in the day light.

The first union labor in the US were printing journeymen. They banded together in the 1780's. Saying unions didn't build the US before the FLSA is a lie. Thousands that wanted a better life in the US died fighting for it for a full century before the FLSA. Many of them were children. My dad was an 11 year old scab in 1931 in Southern Indiana. He placed blasting caps in a rock quarry. It was cheaper to use children than buy the proper drilling equipment. The FLSA also ended child labor.

I don't have a link. Perhaps the UAW members can help me here. I do know that the strike at Ford started after an unusual event. Henry Ford told his workers in 1934(?) IF they could produce by Friday the average number of cars usually produced in a 6 day week, they could have Saturday off. They did it. When they came back the next week, Henry said You must produce the same number of cars by Friday AND produce the daily average on Saturday as well. IF not, he would replace them.

Unions: Safety, security, and a fair share of the bottom line. That built the country and the middle class. Sometimes we forget how good that system worked!

I'm not the Steve of the original OP.

OS

[1]

16. "Unions were technically illegal in the US until 1938"

so, steve, explain to me exactly how unions could have been so fucking essential in building this great country of ours if, by your own admission, they were illegal until 1938.

it seems to me the united states of america was formed just a bit before 1938.


you built this country, steve? really?

[Omaha Steve]

18. Read my daily posts on labor history in the labor forum

I'm telling you where the links are in case that is what you are asking.

Between the FLSA & the NLRB act, there were no laws protecting workers rights before the 30's. Something skipped over in the Bill of Rights.

It took the blood, sweat, & tears of those tired of the status quo. Unions actually can be traced to before the birth of Christ. Check the labor forum. Unions did in fact exist in the US without rights of law. See Mother Jones, Susan B Anthony, Gompers, etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Federation_of_Labor


Jump to: navigation, search
A.F. of L., AFL American Federation of Labor
Founded December 8, 1886
Date dissolved December 4, 1955
Merged into AFL-CIO
Country United States
Office location New York City; later, Washington, D.C.

The American Federation of Labor (AFL) was one of the first federations of labor unions in the United States. It was founded in Columbus, Ohio in 1886 by Samuel Gompers as a reorganization of its predecessor, the Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions. Gompers was the president of the AFL until his death in 1924.

The AFL was the largest union grouping in the United States for the first half of the twentieth century, even after the creation of the Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) by unions that left the AFL in 1938 over its opposition to organizing mass production industries. While the union was founded and dominated by craft unions throughout the first fifty years of its existence, many of its craft union affiliates turned to organizing on an industrial basis to meet the challenge from the CIO in the 1940s.

The AFL represented a conservative "pure and simple unionism" that stressed foremost the concern with working conditions, pay and control over jobs, relegating political goals to a minor role.<1> Unlike the Socialist Party or the even more radical Industrial Workers of the World, it saw the capitalist system as the path to betterment of labor. The AFL's "business unionism" favored pursuit of workers' immediate demands, rather than challenging the rights of owners under capitalism, and took a pragmatic, and often pessimistic, view of politics that favored tactical support for particular politicians over formation of a party devoted to workers' interests.

Get my point? They were there. Brick and steel were union craftsmen. They improved the living standard. They built the middle class. They built the infrastructure. Weekends, 40 hours, overtime, seniority, pay above non union shops, and more. Don't thank me. It happened long before my time. End of lesson.

[1]

23. yeah i totally get you. my problem is that you seem to think the usa began in 1930. it didn't...

the united states of america has pretty much existed since 1776. not 1930.

the united states of america was built before the concept of unions were thought of. it survived before that. it thrived before that. but you won't admit that. we call them slaves.

slaves. that's how we did it. until it was built. so sad.

i might suggest you read a bit more history.


so, tell me again how the united states of america was built by your unions?

it wasn't.


:rofl:

[BeatleBoot]

26. If anything, Organized Labor is trying to prevent slavery

Especially in this economy.

I think you are on the same side as the OP, but yet you try to pick a fight.

And I feel bad about that.

[Omaha Steve]

30. Need I say more?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Federation_of_Labor

AFL was formed in large part because of the dissatisfaction of many trade union leaders with the Knights of Labor, an organization that contained many trade unions and which had played a leading role in some of the largest strikes of the era, but whose leadership had supported several rival unions that had bargained for lower wages and provided strikebreakers during other unions' strikes. The new AFL distinguished itself from the Knights by emphasizing the autonomy of each trade union affiliated with it and limiting membership to workers and organizations made up of workers, unlike the Knights who, according to their producerist philosophy, also admitted small employers as members.

The AFL grew steadily in the late nineteenth century while the Knights went into decline. The Knights lost a series of large strikes which cost the organization many members. Employer opposition rose (particularly after the Haymarket Riot and Great Southwest Railroad Strike of 1886), and the organizational structure of the Knights was unsuited to withstanding and countering this opposition. Conflict between the rank and file and leadership in the Knights also worsened. But conflict with the AFL also contributed to the Knights' demise as the trade union federation raided the Knights, affiliated trade unions which had been expelled from the Knights, and challenged the Knights for the right to represent workers.<2>

It took on three major functions that its affiliates could not accomplish alone. First, it organized unorganized workers. It spread information, brought union leaders into contact, and gave financial support to newly organized unions. Out of its national offices it published a periodical, The American Federationist, and employed a staff of organizers and administrators.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_Riot

The Haymarket affair (also known as the Haymarket riot or Haymarket massacre) on Tuesday May 4, 1886, in Chicago, began as a rally in support of striking workers. An unknown person threw a bomb at police as they dispersed the public meeting. The bomb blast and ensuing gunfire resulted in the deaths of seven police officers and an unknown number of civilians. In the internationally publicized legal proceedings that followed, eight anarchists were tried for murder. Four were put to death, and one committed suicide in prison.

The Haymarket affair is generally considered to have been an important influence on the origin of international May Day observances for workers.<4><5> In popular literature, this event inspired the caricature of "a bomb-throwing anarchist." The causes of the incident are still controversial, although deeply polarized attitudes separating business and working class people in late 19th century Chicago are generally acknowledged as having precipitated the tragedy and its aftermath. The site of the incident was designated as a Chicago Landmark on March 25, 1992.<6> The Haymarket Martyrs' Monument in nearby Forest Park was listed on the National Register of Historic Places and as a National Historic Landmark on February 18, 1997.<2>


And I believe Johnny Tremain was a member too :-)


We still await your letter to the editor. Please post it ASAP!

NO links from YOUR history yet. I've got more once YOU do. But I do grow tired of your lack of respect for DU members here.

[Octafish]

15. Unions built the Middle Class, too.

A fair wage for a day's fair work made it possible for millions of Americans to support a family, buy a house, send kids to college, set something aside for retirement and truly experience the American Dream.

Now, thanks to Reagan and his ilk, what most American works have to look forward to is holding a winning Lotto ticket.

[1]

17. no fucking doubt. but that is is not what "built this country" means as the op asserts...

this country was "built" upon something the op refuses to acknowledge.

and i await the op to say so.

but i will probably await forever...

[Omaha Steve]

19. Write to The Arizona Republic

C/O letters to the editor: Stephen Nolan, Avondale


We have great expectations of your letter to Mr. Nolan.

Send a letter to the editor: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/sendaletter.html


Letters policy

Here is the policy that Editorial Board editors use in selecting letters to the editor for publication in The Arizona Republic:

1. Letters must be signed. All letters must be verified prior to publication. We don't publish unsigned letters.
2. Clarity, conciseness of language.
3. Diversity of subject matter, the broader the better.
4. Subject matter should be relevant to readers, provocative, constructive, timely. Passion is good. So is humor.
5. No vulgarity. No racial slurs. No otherwise mean-spiritedly insulting terms. No accusations of criminal behavior, even on the part of elected officials. Use common sense.
6. We post a 200-word limit.
7. Letters criticizing The Republic are OK, even encouraged, so long as the criticism is constructive and not mean-spirited.
8. Letters that disagree with editorial stances are every bit as valuable for publication, if not more so, than letters that agree with them.
9. Letters responding to letters are OK. Letters responding to letters responding to letters generally aren't.
10. Letter writers may have no more than one letter published per month.
11. Letters should be timely.
12. Letters to the editor, opinion and editorial columns and articles submitted to The Republic may be published or distributed in print, electronic or other formats.

[BeatleBoot]

21. I bet he won't

just a wild guess.

[1]

25. i'm not going to write to anyone. i asked you a direct question. answer it.

you.

i asked you a direct question.

answer.


are you afraid of my questions?

[apocalypsehow]

27. Do you know that your entire post, especially the final question, is a cliched rhetorical trope?

Do you have the self-awareness - or the minimal education - to realize that? :shrug:

[Omaha Steve]

33. To CasualWatcher9

You have history but no links. You seem to think the transcontinental railroad was built by slaves. Hmm that was AFTER the civil War. But educated civil engineers and unionized tradesmen did as much as the Irish and Chinese. Watch what you say. I live in Omaha and know UP-CP history.

Why don't you answer a few questions or post a link or two? I've posted links to history of labor in this and the labor forum for years. I've been in labor court twice in my life. I won both cases. My NLRB case established precedent for non-union workers rights. It has been posted several times for all to read. Just what have you done for the common man or woman?

No guts to write a letter to the editor? I'm shocked. Just shocked.

No guts. No knowledge. No case.

Omaha Steve

A proud founding member of the DU Labor Forum.

[Omaha Steve]

34. I'm going to bed

I'll be glad to continue to make you look like a fool in the morning.

OS

[Trajan]

24. Oh Poo Poo .....

Your rejections are quite tiring, and reek of essential RW anti-union rhetoric ....

Nothing but Poo .....

[dcsmart]

28. Union made

Next time someone puts in their 8 hr day or gets vacation pay or unemployment or worker compensation or OSHA tells the company to fix a problem that is unsafe to workers or gets Holiday pay....tell them that was UNION MADE!!!

nice letter.

support the EMPLOYEE FREE CHOICE ACT

http://timetofight.tumblr.com/post/64384121/employee-free-choice-act-see-more-about-this

http://timetofight.tumblr.com/post/63463507/employee-free-choice-act-us-senator-on-free

http://timetofight.tumblr.com/post/63094302/the-employee-free-choice-act-afl-cio-american





Editor
PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRACY
http://timetofight.tumblr.com/

[BeatleBoot]

29. Don't forget the "week-end"

[ellisonz]

31. Tobacco built this country.

:sarcasm:

[Libertyfirst]

32. Thank you, Omaha Steve. Schools never teach labor history so

most people grow up unaware of what labor, early and later, has contributed to the well being of the American people. No one would have decent wages,health care, paid vacations, safe working conditions, etc if it were not for the unions leading the way. As union influence has declined, so has the quality of American life, our safety nets,and the size of the middle class. I appreciate your posts on organized labor. You are performing a real service in educating and calling attention to the contributions of unions.

[1]

37. sorry, dear steve. your arguments hold no water. unions did not bulid this country...

unions were along for the ride at some point of this great journey. laws and such have replaced their importance. (thank god for democratic influence on that regard.)

your arcane thoughts and old guild ways are just not relevant anymore.

[texastoast]

39. Unions!!??

Oh yeah.

We NEEDED unions because of the ethics of big business. Big business way back then did the best they could to slave drive ALL people, and not even just adults, but children as well. What a shame they couldn't "man" up and do the right thing to begin with. We wouldn't have needed unions.

And big business really hopes to get back to it, not to worry. I've already been told by my "liberal" law environment that this next year we are all going to have to work harder. Employees lost by attrition will not be replaced. Those of us remaining will just have to carry their loads, but without any extra pay, of course--you know, times are tough. Meanwhile, the goldhats are still upgrading to first class flights and suites in New York City.

Like the bumper sticker says, "Unions--the people who brought you weekends."

[1]

40. i agree with you... and to quote you... "We NEEDED unions..." absolutely!

"We NEEDED unions..."

but if unions were to go away tomorrow, guess what? your bumper sticker would still be true and we would still have weekends.

huzzah! unions!

[Omaha Steve]

41. Not a single link or references to other posts

No single answer from you. You ask me to define a letter written by someone else. You ask if I'm afraid of your questions. But you answer none of mine. No comments on several items where I show you are incorrect. In other words you are wrong and you can't admit it. You are entitled to your opinion. You are also entitled to be a horses ass, which you most certainly are.

If union are so unimportant take this quiz: http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/thisistheaflcio/publications/magazine/upload/quiz2.pdf

[Omaha Steve]

43. I waited for CasualWatcher9 to reply all day

Must be working very hard on that letter to the editor thing.

[madokie]

44. You durn toot'in they did

Working wo/mans best friend, hell for that matter its all Americans best friend.

[LibertyorDeath]

45. It's not rocket science

Do You want better pay for your time,talent and labor.

Do you want better working conditions

Do You want better Health and Sick time benefits

Do You want better Maternity/Paternity leave.

Do You want a safer work environment

Do you want protection against wrongful dismissal

If you answered yes to any or all of the above you have common

sense and sound judgment and hopefully you are a Union member.

If you answered No there's something fundamentally wrong with your mind.

[Edweird]

46. K&R. It's disgusting how much ani-US labor sentiment there is even here on DU.

Thank you for posting.