With The Economy in Shambles... CONgress Gets a raise

[lib2DaBone]

A crumbling economy, more than 2 million constituents who have lost their jobs this year, and congressional demands of CEOs to work for free did not convince lawmakers to freeze their own pay.

Instead, they will get a $4,700 pay increase, amounting to an additional $2.5 million that taxpayers will spend on congressional salaries, and watchdog groups are not happy about it.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/with-economy-in-shambles-congress-gets-a-raise-2008-12-17.html
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CONgress has done such a wonderful job...

Union Busting
Funding both sides of the war in Pakistan
$700 Billion pissed away to Bankers
Tax breaks to send jobs to China

[MADem]

1. We'll know it's really bad if they pass a law directing that they be paid in EUROS! nt

[Clovis Sangrail]

2. I so glad our representative make at least 4 times as much as the average contituent

it means they can understand our problems at least 4 times better than we do.
They may seem out of touch but really they're hyper-in-touch
(it just looks that way to us mere peons)

[Hippo_Tron]

5. They have to maintain two residences, one of which is in Washington DC...

And rest assured that isn't cheap. Some of them are independently wealthy and can afford to do so. But I would rather that wealth no be a prerequisite to public service.

[Clovis Sangrail]

8. $2k/month ($24k/year) gets you a pretty swank 2 bedroom apartment in DC.

The "it's so expensive" thing is a load of crap.
You could take all of their expenses out of their salary and they'd still be getting paid triple or more what their constituents make.

... and they get to write most of that crap off so their really making more than their salary.

consider that (with some exceptions) they don't even work 5 days a week like the rest of us.

[Hippo_Tron]

9. A 2 bedroom apartment is fine when you don't have kids

And while some of them are incredibly lazy, those that want to do a good job tend not to be. Congress is in session only 4 days a week but that doesn't mean they aren't working on the other days. They are often back in their districts/states listening to their constituents on those days.

Russ Feingold, for example, holds a listening session in every county in Wisconsin every year.

Also, on the days that they are in session, they can be at work long after midnight so it's not exactly like it's a 9-5 job.

[Clovis Sangrail]

12. do your kids go to work with you?

we should pay for their kids to live at both locations at the same time?
:rofl:

[Hippo_Tron]

13. Would you run for Congress if it meant you couldn't see your kids 5 days a week?

[Donnachaidh]

15. oh please -- most of these jackals whine about a five day work week

Because they might miss their planes back home. Of course they live without their kids for 5 days a week.

[Clovis Sangrail]

18. I know a few people who travel for work and don't get to see their kids during the week

and they're getting paid a fraction of what our congress critters are.
Having to travel for work is becoming more and more common.

[Hippo_Tron]

19. It's still a deterrent to running for public office

If you want the best people in public service then you need to pay them to offer them a decent lifestyle or the best people won't run. You will get a combination of the wealthy and corrupt that seek office.

[Clovis Sangrail]

21. spare me

$169k/year isn't "decent" ... it's fantastically wealthy in comparison to most people.
It puts them well within the top 5% of earners in the entire country... so cut the "we need to offer them decent pay" crap.
The median family income is under $50k in most states.

As for how what we pay them effects who runs... we already get a combination of the wealthy and corrupt and we pay them insanely well.
Have you been asleep for the last 8 years?

You want to get decent honorable people?
Pay them for all of their justifiable expenses... plus the average salary of their constituents.
that's it
If people won't do it because they can make more money elsewhere.. that's a good thing because we don't want those type of people.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. The combination of the wealthy and corrupt you speak of are called "Republicans"

Meanwhile we do get many decent and good people that don't come from wealthy backgrounds like Biden, Feingold, Conyers, Sanders, Durbin, Kucinich, etc.

The Democrats are the ones that instituted the 5 day work week when they took power and the GOP griped about it. The Republicans are the ones that are infamous for their lobbyist paid "charity fundraising" trips and don't do jack shit in terms of actual work. Yes, some Democrats are guilty of this as well and some Republicans actually do work hard.

But many of these people do work their asses off and do not have independent wealth. The pay raise is an adjustment for inflation, something that they should and would also do with the minimum wage but for the fact that Bush will veto it.

[Clovis Sangrail]

26. wow.. you've really drunk the cool aid

the answer to everything isn't "because the democrats are great and the republicans suck".
That wasn't even the topic yet somehow it's where you've gone... sad.

Politicians in this country, in general (regardless of dem or rep) are grossly overpaid and under worked.
And a good number of them from both sides are corrupt.
This situation is enabled by the same fanboi-ism that you're displaying. (from both sides)
Another result of attitudes like yours is the type of craptastic partisan atmosphere that's permeated our politics and grown worse ever year since 94.
That's one of the things I really hope Obama will work to change... and based on his writings I'm guessing you might be pretty disappointed in the next year.

Rather than addressing the issue, the fact that the average salary of $169k/year puts our congress people in the top 5% of the nations earners you respond by trying to stoke partisan flames.
I guess we're supposed to be distracted and pretend that's an answer.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. It's not partisanship as much as...

I'm saying that you and others have a skewed view of how hard politicians actually work due to the egregious cases that arose during the Tom DeLay era of governance.

This isn't something we're going to agree on. You think that politicians should make what their constituents make so that they will empathize with them and I don't. Given that these people have authority over a $2 trillion budget a year I think that legislators should be the most talented people we can possibly find. In order to get that talent, you have to be willing to pay for it, especially since talented people often (although certainly not always) can make more money elsewhere.

[Clovis Sangrail]

32. I can understand disagreement

but the obfuscation about "the dems are better" and "it's just the republicans" is insulting.
This isn't just about the Tom Delay era of corruption, it's about what we should expect from our politicians.
That and the fact that $169k/year puts them in the top 5% of earners.. which begs the question "are we really just another aristocracy".

The argument that we need to pay a lot in order to get good people is basically the govt. is like business argument.
The problem is that govt isn't like busniness - if it were we would fire people for non-performance or malfeasance.
Paying more doesn't mean we get the best politicians.
It provides incentive for hucksters with no civic responsibility to run for office.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. Just because government is not like a business

Does not mean that there is not a correlation between pay and talent. Certainly it is not as strong of a correlation but it still exists. Many talented people in some states refuse to run for the state legislature because the compensation is horrible considering the time commitment it requires. That is the case here in Louisiana. As a result our legislature is made up of morons and independently wealthy (many of which are also morons).

[Clovis Sangrail]

36. I don't think you get it

if somebody thinks the pay isn't enough - and will work someplace else instead for more money - you don't want them in office.
That person has demonstrated that their personal interests outweigh their civic interests.
They'd just be a corruption case waiting to happen and we're better off without them in govt.

As for La having corrupt politicians: it has more to do with oversight of those politicians, the old boy network, and a lack of consequences.
Throwing money at it wont get you better politicians it will just mean you wasted your money.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. Again, this is a philisophical difference

You believe that people actually place civic interests over their personal interests. I believe that nearly everybody is primarily self interested, even those who go into public service. There are lots of people who want to do good, but you can do good without the hassle of running for and holding public office. Those who seek public office are those who find the job appealing, regardless of whether or not they actually want to help others. Some of them do actually want to help others and some don't.

And I wasn't talking about corruption in Louisiana I was talking about the sheer incompetence of our legislators. The pay is low enough that many talented people don't want to run for office because they would be doing so at a financial loss considering their time off of work and such.

[Dorian Gray]

38. I don't expect them to take a pay cut

and they do make a pretty high salary. But, I also think that, in solidarity with the difficult times we are going through, they should never have voted to increase their salaries this year. It's unfair and angering, especially when so many Americans are being laid off.

[flobee]

20. My cousins husband had to move from Ohio to NC

or lose his job
he gets to see his family every other weekend

5 days is acceptable

[Synicus Maximus]

27. Any decent congress critter can't live in a 2 bedroom apartment

they need at least a million dollar 4 bedroom condo in Georgetown, they have people to entertain and such. A 2 bedroom apartment would make them fell to much like their constituents.

[Donnachaidh]

14. Fine -- let's set them up in DORMITORIES

My heart BLEEDS that they have to maintain TWO residences! They are there to WORK, and unless they move their families to Washington with them, they should be housing themselves in something less GRAND than they *think* they should be.

[Donnachaidh]

16. of course, those Government leased cars and gas allowances are pretty tough to deal with too n/t

[BlueJac]

3. We should vote to see if they get a raise.

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. I vote NO!

x(

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. The lobbyists are behind on their regular payments because of the recession..

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." - Mark Twain

:nopity: :nopity:

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. .

:spray: The lobbyists are behind on their regular payments because of the recession.. :evilgrin:

They have to make it up somewhere, ya know? Nice that they can just vote themselves a raise. x(

While the serfs will get NOTHING and LIKE IT!

[lib2DaBone]

23. You got it Tierra... these men and women in Congress are out of control.....

[dbt]

7. I need to hear McConnell, Shelby and the rest of those

(redacted, rhymes with "slackers") explain why UAW members need to take a pay cut because they're making too much money. Talk slow, boys, and be convincing.

:grr:

[Fumesucker]

10. Well duh.. Because their employers are running deficits...

Oh wait..

[depakid]

17. Way to go Dems!

Yet another area where there's not a dimes worth of difference between the parties.

I'm sure we'll se many more of them in the coming years.

[4 t 4]

24. Well Sure

don't you always get a 4,700 raise in one year without changing jobs or getting a promo.

[Pastiche423]

25. At least one representative puts his raise towards good

Rep. Pete DeFazio has refused to accept large congressional pay raises. Instead, he uses the money from past raises to fund scholarships for displaced workers at SW Oregon community colleges. He also funds a scholarship at the University of Oregon. And he returns a portion of his past pay raises to the US Treasury to help reduce the national debt. Peter DeFazio has helped more than 50 Oregon students further their education, proving that his commitment to education is deep and personal.

[4 t 4]

28. I replied to something like this on Friday

and the response from someone was " we all deserve more money" well I agree but we don't all get it. Only the fortunate few do

[Pastiche423]

31. Uh...

What does that have to do w/Pete DeFazio?

[lib2DaBone]

40. Defazio also voted against the $700 Billion Give Away to Bankers

... he and Marcy Kaptor were flamed here on DU for not approving the cash giveaway....

Thanks Pete. Thanks Marcy. At least there are 2 Congress Critters working for a living.

[Pastiche423]

42. I am so glad I did not see that

Makes me wonder who those "DUers" were.

[Ilsa]

30. Do they really want the peasants to bring back the guillotine?

It's messy, but cheap. ;)

[2Design]

33. they do this every year and people forget - I have been saying this all year n/t

[leftofthedial]

34. and boy, they deserve it too, don't they?

they've been working their fingers to the bone giving the people the bony finger.

real champions they are.

[progressoid]

37. 2.5 million? I bet that doesn't include insurance and retirement benefits

like those overpaid autoworkers. :grr:

[lib2DaBone]

41. ONE TERM in Congress.. you are vested for life......

That means health care, insurance, fitness Club, Free haircuts, tax free shopping, Free Chauffer. Pay raises for life.

Try finding a deal like that in the real world.

[SOS]

43. Wall Street bribes are way down this year

In 1999, Wall Street spent $300 million "lobbying" for the repeal of Glass-Steagall.
They're just not seeing that kind of grease this year.