For those of you defending the anti gay preacher

[reggie the dog]

What would you do if one of your children were gay, or you brother or your sister? Would you tell them to just chill and be patient and that perhaps someday people would stop comparing them to child molesters? We pretty much all have gay people in our families. How can you even accept that we have to reach out to homophobes without insulting your own family members?

[polichick]

1. Makes me think of Anita Bryant, who hit the airwaves in the late 70s...

...self-righteously preaching discrimination. But then one of her own sons turned out to be gay, and she stopped fighting against gay rights.

[rug]

13. I haven't drunk orange juice in 30 years.

[polichick]

16. My family boycotted too - until the growers fired Bryant.

[rug]

18. Now you tell me.

[polichick]

24. LOL

[Richd506]

2. K & R

But I still like Obama

[BlooInBloo]

3. I still haven't seen anyone defend the fuckwitbigotdude. Link please?

EDIT: Unless refusing to Self-ImmolateBecauseThisIsWorseThanTheHolocaust!!!!!!elevens!!!!! counts as "defending" him, of course.

[yowzayowzayowza]

33. 2nd request for link. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

36. Don't bother. It appears that the OP has watered down the concept of "defending" someone so much...

that anyone who doesn't actually kill the fuckwitbigot would count as a "defender".

[Toasterlad]

37. So You're Fine With Warren Speaking at the Inauguration?

[BlooInBloo]

38. Sorry - I'm too busy committing Holocausts to answer your Very Serious Question.

EDIT: Subject typo.

[Toasterlad]

42. Yeah, That's What I Thought. All One Liner, No Rational Substance.

[BlooInBloo]

44. (ahem) Are you talking about me, or....

:rofl:

[Toasterlad]

61. Definitely You. I Use My Snark For Good, Not Evil.

Plus, I'm capable of having a real discussion.

[Skittles]

45. hey Toasterlad

learn to put stupid assholes on IGNORE - saves a lot of grief

[yowzayowzayowza]

43. LOL!!! n/t

[reggie the dog]

39. no

there is a large difference between killing someone and calling them out on their bigotry. I have seen many comments here minimizing his speaking saying it is no big deal. Would it be no big deal if the preacher were this man, Todd Bentley

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=964

[BlooInBloo]

40. Still waiting for the link of a DUer DEFENDING the fuckwitbigotdude. Thanks!

EDIT: Subject typo - damn hangover.

[reggie the dog]

46. here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4690122#4690135

see, its just a little prayer, so its no big deal. Defending the choice of Obama as if it is not offensive to an entire group of citizens who only want to be free to live in equality with others.

[BlooInBloo]

50. BRING THOSE BACK HERE RIGHT NOW!!!!

:rofl:




EDIT: For the dim:

From the OP: "those of you defending the anti gay preacher"
From the last post: "Defending the choice of Obama"

It's because of such deceit that I don't take you seriously, despite the fact that I agree with you on the underlying issue.

[meowomon]

4. We should just play nice

Don't fuck it up for the first black president because we want our rights too! OOPS, that's gonna piss some people off. I fucking supported Rev. Wright and his righteous anger at white America. I felt for him and how it must have been horrible to be raised up in a society that tried to teach you that you were less because of you skin color. I debated self righteous bigots who claimed he was up to o good because he was a MUSLIM! And now I am supposed to tkae a back seat to this pig of a bigot because we want to reach across the aisle? How about inviting Rev. Phelps to give the invocation?

[ColbertWatcher]

6. Well said. n/t

[Richd506]

10. I agree with everything you're saying

Yes the Rick Warren pick was certainly not the best pick but I just think it's rash for anyone to hold Obama to the fire before he's even taken the oath. K & R!

[ColbertWatcher]

5. The worst part about the Warren pick is that not only does he hate gays ...

... he also hates women.

Obama has two daughters, what the hell kind of message is he sending his daughters by choosing Warren?

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. He should be asked that . Perhaps Michelle should ask him?

[ColbertWatcher]

27. True. Maybe Michelle is okay since there are women in his cabinet? n/t

[uppityperson]

7. Does anyone who says they still like Obama="defending the anti gay preacher"?

My sib, my uncle, my friend, my friend's husband, many others are gay. I still like Obama and am glad he is the president-elect, not Mccain.

Does that mean that I defend the anti gay preacher? Does that mean I am a homophobe? Does that mean I consider all these people dear to me child molestors?

[reggie the dog]

9. people defend they guy when they say

"relax it is just a two minute prayer."

This is like having a white supremacist lead the prayer.

I also still like Obama. I just think he made a shitty choice.

[uppityperson]

19. Thank you. I still support Obama and think he made a shitty choice also. eom.

[Captain Hilts]

14. It's Obama's 3rd go 'round with bigoted preachers. nt

[uppityperson]

21. 3rd? Who did I miss? thanks.

[Fumesucker]

49. Donnie McClurkin

"Ex gay" preacher who performed at an Obama rally or two.

I think I spelled his name correctly.

[uppityperson]

59. thank you, I saw that name, but have been out of it recently.

I kept reading it as Donnie Darko, thanks for the brief on him.

edited to add that I have staying out of discussions, and missed him, since beyond "equal rights for all" and down with bigots, I don't feel I had much to add. Seems that while discussion is good, necessary, thoughtful, there was a lot of nasty shit from all sorts of posters on all ranges. Minds made up, emotions impacted (as well they should have been) and not a lot of thoughtful discussion, or rather that was more difficult to find. I can never fully understand anyone else, but will support peole in working towards common good, and equal rights, being decent, so forth.

I think Obama is wrong in including anti-gay, anti-women, anti-whatever people. I don't see how it will help the world be a better place.

[Richd506]

15. I know it's not the same

But there's been a couple people on DU who seemed like they were trying to equate the two and quite frankly it was getting annoying. I think Rick Warren was a poor pick but I don't like it when someone tries to link my support for Obama with support for Rick Warren.

[shadowknows69]

25. Yes, apparently it does

[reggie the dog]

26. no, it does not

I like Obama, I defend his right to make choices as he sees fit. I will not defend having a bigot lead a prayer. People that say it is no big deal are defending the preacher. People saying "Obama fucked up but I still support him" do not fall into this category.

[uppityperson]

28. Is it possible to say Obama fucked up but it's no big deal?

Serious question. Rather than Obama fucked up AND it is a big deal.

I may be uppity but I try to be civil, have not posted much on this recently and appreciate the chance to talk. I think he fucked up, am using my energies elsewhere though since I disagree with him but am not outraged. I support those who are outraged, until they take it out on me for not being outraged. I think he fucked up with this choice though.

[cali]

8. who here is defending Warren? I've seen exactly one post

that could maybe be construed that way.

[reggie the dog]

12. people who tell folks to relax

that it is not that bad,
are defending the right of bigots to lead religious events related to the inauguration of the president.

[ColbertWatcher]

30. Exactly.

When women were given the right to vote, that right was not taken from men.

When the slaves were freed, white people were not enslaved in exchange.

Rights are recognized to expand and include more people. Rights are not some kind of zero-sum game.

I think it is simply disrespectful for anyone to expect gay people to accept this public slap in the face in exchange for the promise of some compensation to be named later. Maybe.

[cali]

35. um, no they're not. I disagree with them but

that's not a defense of Warren.

[Captain Hilts]

11. Anti-woman, anti-Jew, anti-Catholic, anti-science and anti-evolution. nt

[makinguphumans]

31. yup--that would be the RW evangelical that Warren is.

[BeFree]

17. Who is defending Warren?

Or, as your OP says "the anti-gay preacher"

Who? Who is saying that this guy is a-ok? Sure, some people are saying this is no big deal,
or that it's smart politics on Obama's part but those are not defenders of the preacher.

Maybe you are confusing support for Obama as support for the preacher? If so, you are wrong.

[Bucky]

20. Just as protesting this insulting choice of Warren isn't opposition to Obama

I've seen both extremes vigorously, if not very logically, argued. I thinking typing into a computer tends to make people more obsessive about their own opinions than they normally are.

[reggie the dog]

23. by saying it is no big deal

one is defending anti gay sentiment. That is tacit support for his right to be accepted as a bigot. I support Obama, not the preacher.

[BeFree]

29. Well

There are some gays who have said it's no big deal.

Besides isn't bigotry defined as judging someone because of intolerance of their thoughts?
So calling someone a bigot over this is bigotry. Round and round we go. Where it stops, nobody knows.

[reggie the dog]

41. "some gays"

have said it is no big deal as have some heteros. That does not mean that it is not tacit defense of the guys right to lead a prayer at the inauguration.

[BeFree]

57. Oh, I get it

Now you want to deny 'rights' to speak. Hmmm. Yes, lets ask for rights while denying rights!!

lets see, the guy gets invited by Obama. So, following your logic, Obama is a homophobic bigot?

Man, this is getting weirder and weirder.

[Fumesucker]

51. There is a difference between judging someone for what they *are* and judging for what they *do*..

I'm not particularly surprised that you cannot tell the difference.

[reggie the dog]

53. enlighten me

what is the difference?

[Bluenorthwest]

54. Some gay people

are Republicans. Does that make it somehow right? I think not.

Here is the definition of bigotry, a thing that actually exists : Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

Please note that using the word as it should be used means only irrational emotions toward a group apply, which means that a hatred or suspicion that is based on fact is not bigotry. So, calling a bigot a bigot is not bigotry. If someone organized and speaks against your group, they are a bigot. Hating them for doing so is not bigotry, it is intelligence.


If we were to use words according to what they really mean, instead of by made up assumptions pulled from the ether, it would go a long way toward making this place better.

[BeFree]

58. Is it rational

To call good DUers who support Obama's right to chose who he pleases, homophobes and bigots?
To blanket them with the term even when they state good, rational reasons for doing so?

[Deja Q]

32. If somebody accused me of being a child molester, I'd respond.

Nobody does, therefore I don't.

And I am not.

[jonnyblitz]

34. they don't care , reggie, they just don't want anybody raining

on their little OBAMARAMA feelgood party. we selfish gays are ruining EVERYTHING. :cry:

[Trajan]

47. There is a difference ....

Between 'defending the anti-gay preacher' and 'Democratic President Elect Barack Obama' ...

I don't see hardly ANYBODY defending an anti-gay preacher ..... anywhere on DU ....

[reggie the dog]

48. the preacher should be shunned

as should anyone wanting to discriminate against anyone else. They should not be invited to lead the most important prayer of the year.

[Trajan]

55. OK ....

So the objections are against those who are NOT shunning him ? .. or those who defend an anti-gay preacher ? ..... They are not the exact same thing ....

I would not have invited that asshole, but I am not going to going to toss Obama over the gunwales because he made this choice ....

I would refer to Skinner's thread this morning ....

[CreekDog]

52. how many here are *actually* defending Rick Warren?

Approximately zero. Perhaps five at most total.

Almost none of us are into the guy.

That said, it is totally different to try to make an appeal to people to get them to side with us on these issues. Yes, we might even end up trying to convince people you consider bigots to support civil rights for gays.

The two things are different. I can't stand Rick Warren. I know and am friends with his supporters and followers and try to get them to vote our way on issues all the time. And I haven't found it a very workable strategy to call them names or shun them in getting some of those votes.

So many young evangelicals just eat up whatever Warren says. I think it's nonsense and isn't even orthodox Christianity. Nevertheless, if Warren speaks at the inauguration, a bunch of Warren's devotees will watch for Warren and many will see Obama too.

A number of my friends who only have voted Republican actually like Obama and are open to supporting him. One of the reasons was because Obama met with Warren multiple times.

It's politics.

I doubt Obama is going to change this to exclude Warren. I just don't think that's gonna happen.

Anyway, enough of my rambling.

[BeFree]

60. It's politics

And, by Gawd, there is a good discussion going on about the whole mess. Innit?

[gizmo1979]

56. No I'd tell her to fight like

heck and sooner or later someone will pay attention.