I've read the Gospels and I don't see where the Fundies get this stuff

[AllentownJake]

I want to qualify this I'm not a Christian. I once was but after a while the church just didn't seem to fit the message I was reading in their book. So, I believed if God was truly all powerful he would not allow his church to be perverted by these men and therefore maybe God wasn't really all powerful and not God. I could be wrong.

The Jesus I read about in that book was not really that concerned with the powerless, and when I say that I mean he wasn't that overly concerned in what sins they were committing. Most of the time he was preaching against those in power who were using their power to further abuse the powerless. After reading some of the things he said I understand why he was crucified in the beginning of the AD period. In fact he seemed to show the powerless with incredible mercy and kindness. He really didn't seem to be that concerned with the middle class of that time either as far as sinning went. He asked them to do good but there weren't really strong rebukes.

What I did read was he was not happy with the government officials and religous authorities of his time. He saw them as crooks and tended to let them know it. If he was alive today I suspect he'd be more likley to be on the steps of congress or Wall St. preaching than in front of the abortion clinic or gay pride festival.

Anyway, I don't really understand where the Fundies get their faith or ideas. I don't really see the nationalism, millitary support, support for those who are wealthy etc. etc. etc. in the Gospels.

Any idea where the fundies are getting their religion from because it certainly isn't the first 4 books of the New Testament.

[HeresyLives]

1. From the old testament, not the new.

They are very big on smiting, and the old testament has lots of smiting.

[AllentownJake]

3. Yes and all the leaders

are immoral. Makes sense.

[sarcasmo]

2. Cherry picking certain verses and re-wording them to fit their purpose.

Just this non-believers take.

[NMMNG]

4. Mostly from their asses

A little of it is from the OT, but they doctor that up with stuff they pull out of their asses.

[polichick]

5. From their con men ministers.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

6. Mostly the Old Testament and some Paul out of context.

Oh and Revelation. They love Revelation even though they haven't a clue what it's about.

[AllentownJake]

8. Does anyone have a clue what its about?

Seriously I've never read more cryptic gibberish in my life.

[PDJane]

11. Revelations were written under the influence of

hallucinogenic mushrooms, more than likely, and they are as lucid as one might expect them to be. And no, I'm not joking or making fun of the bible or the faith. That is a historical likelihood, and it is what it is.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

13. I'm going to have to go against PDJane on that one.

Most of the weird-ass imagery was taken from older Biblical prophets, in particular Daniel and Isaiah. In an interesting twist, the descriptions of the four horsemen seem to be based on descriptions of traditional cavalry units that opposed Rome (minus the funky colors). There's a lot of wordplay and a lot of coding, which isn't unusual for a writing from the Judeo-Christian apocalyptic genre, particularly since it bashes the Roman government without reservation.

No one "knows" what it's about but most credible theologians believe that Revelation was written at a time during persecution of the Christian Church (probably under Nero) and was meant to encourage early Christians to keep practicing their faith through the difficult times. I would argue that to believers the text has relevance because while it was written to a certain community in a certain time and place, we can deduce relevant spiritual meanings and guidelines using our faith and reason combined. Evangelicals and fundamentalists (and a lot of scriptura sola Christians in general) do not approach the Bible that way.

[HeresyLives]

10. Yeah, I'll agree.

Old testament for the smiting of nearly everyone, Paul for the anti-women, and Revelations for the end-of-the-world stuff.

Since Revelations is a horrific mish-mash, you can find anything you want in there, if you look hard enough.

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. In all seriousness, I doubt most fundies have ever READ the Gospels or really the Bible at all.

Sure, they take their Bibles to church, and they open them and read along with the few verses that their fundie pastor takes entirely out of context and twists to his own political agenda. But they never sit down and actually read, in full, the teachings of the very man they call their Lord and Savior.

Because if everyone who called themselves "Christians" for the last 2000 years actually lived by the teachings of Jesus Christ, we'd have a much better world. And we certainly wouldn't decide elections by homophobic ballot measures or claim that wars for oil are "just wars" according to the Bible.

[Fumesucker]

9. Fundies quote the Gospels about as often as they quote Darwin..

The Gospels are fairly unambiguous and are a good bit harder to twist into hatefulness than a lot of the Old Testament and Saul of Tarsus' rants.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. I Agree With You. Do Want To Address This Though:

"I want to qualify this I'm not a Christian. I once was but after a while the church just didn't seem to fit the message I was reading in their book. So, I believed if God was truly all powerful he would not allow his church to be perverted by these men and therefore maybe God wasn't really all powerful and not God. I could be wrong."


Many people lose faith because of that sort of perception; that God is supposed to intervene on our behalf or alter circumstance to our (those with the beauty of goodness inside of us) liking. But from my deep perception, that is not the role of God (if one is to believe). God is there to help guide us, to help give us strength, and to give us hope. One of the biggest tactical errors of those who believe in religion is that they equate circumstance and God as being the same entity. That couldn't be further from the truth. Circumstance is its own entity and it basically rules our lives. That's where free will comes in; in how we respond to and handle circumstance. But God is not circumstance. God allows circumstance free reign because to not do so would basically mean heaven on earth, and if it were heaven on earth why the need for earth at all? Circumstance is its own force. God is there to lift us up past circumstance, to give us renewed spirit and hope, to give us strength and to give us guidance; so that we may each walk down our own path, at our own pace, in our own time, for our own reasons. If God's role was to change circumstance, to rule circumstance, to manipulate circumstance; than the game would be rigged no? Is God's intent for there to be heaven on earth? If we are to believe in a faith, aren't we to believe that the concept of heaven (whatever it may be) and the reality of earth are separate for a reason? If we are to believe this, then wouldn't we also have to acknowledge that in order for that to be, that He can't change circumstances to our liking or it would defeat the whole purpose?

I hope some of what I'm saying makes some sense to you. Too many people get the ideals of circumstance and God confused as if one entity. They both guide us and build us, but in completely different ways and for completely different reasons. God is wisdom. Wisdom is pure, untainted, factual and inarguable. Circumstance, on the other hand, is perception. Everything we see, feel, touch, taste and hear, is all perception. Perception is not pure, factual nor inarguable. Wisdom is there to help us make sense of the perception, to learn lessons from that which we perceive, and to give us hope, strength and perseverance that overcomes the falseness of perception. So that's what I compare God to, in absence of any organized religion. God is wisdom and strength. Circumstance is perception and flaw. Distinct, different, yet both part of the same journey that is life and betterness of our nature.

[DemBones DemBones]

14. Thanks for making those points.

It's unfair to blame God for what humans do with free will.