A single mom with one child can live easily on $10 an hour

[SoCalDem]

IF they can both eat on $2.88 a month and no one gets sick...or the car does not break down..and she drives with no car insurance..and the kid never outgrows clothing or shoes

[Deja Q]

1. I feel sorry for the single mom and the child.

For numerous reasons.

[Megahurtz]

2. And Could You Imagine

living in Southern California on $10 an hour as a single Mom with one child?????:wow:

[JuniperLea]

5. $500 a month will get you a single garage in Encino... n/t

[SoCalDem]

6. and since they use the pre-tax income to qualify for state aid, "this" mom

probably would not qualify :(

[Hekate]

109. My daughter lived in one room of a 4 BR house with her baby

...and it was more than that. Shared housing -- all working adults except the baby. And the house was going for a bit less than current market.

She first got into that house with her brother and the two of them fronted the lease with the absentee landlady, brought in two other room mates, and split everything equally. When the other two moved out my son figured out that they could charge subsequent roomies at the market rate and thus decrease their own share. This was especially critical for my daughter, and I think she kept to that plan after he followed his job to another state.

Housing here on the Central Coast is scarce and the cost is brutal. Many people rent out converted garages or single rooms in their homes, and they're not cheap.

If only policy-makers would do the math...

Hekate

[Megahurtz]

174. Terrible.

The U.S. is turning into a Third World Country for a lot of people.:(

[lovuian]

185. The American worker will revolt as they get angrier and angrier

when the majority are all in poverty and wake up that the American Dream has been stolen perhaps then they will realize we are back in the days of Worker revolutions

Remember
we are the ones who work in tough jobs working hours and hours and getting no where

How long can the anger be supressed?
Marx said it The worker will revolt

[grasswire]

3. your utilities are low, I think

I can't imagine that little.

[SoCalDem]

10. I made it deliberately LOW, just to show that even with the minimal

expenses, it's next to impossible to do..yet our legislators don't seem to think so..

Plus in more "realistic' numbers, and you see why people are using plastic to FEED THEIR KIDS!!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

21. "using plastic to feed their kids"

I'm not sure if you're talking about credit cards or actually feeding plastic, but I don't see food in the equation.

[SoCalDem]

24. $2.88 left over is for food...the rest of the food it probably from "Visa"

I DID mean that kind of plastic:)

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

26. I guess I should have realized that

Feeding on real plastic might actually be quite expensive. Petroleum products, you know.

[SoCalDem]

30. "Drink your oil, honey...it's $3 a gallon"..cheaper than milk

and it's 10-w40...goes down really smooth :)

[jaksavage]

35. plastic peanuts

very light and twice as filling

[EFerrari]

79. Ten years ago it was shockiing to see people paying for their stuff

at Safeway. :(

[SoCalDem]

172. Yep.and when they did, they would usually make comments about

having a big party, or buying it for a friend..

I remember being shocked to be asked..debit or credit when I used my atm card.. i didn't even KNOW it was also a potential 'credit card"..:shrug:

[truedelphi]

168. My usual rant - when you are at that level of income

A single check written out on a day when your bank funds can't cover it - could mean over
$ 100 will go to a bank's NSF charges ($ 22 a pop and some ten dollars above that at some banks)

[Fridays Child]

4. Did someone actually say that?

What did I miss (I swear I was only gone for a minute)?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Yes.

In fact, some people think that minumum wage should be quite a bit lower than $10 per hour.

[SoCalDem]

12. Nope.. just was thinking about the minimum wage "debate"

when Dana Rohrabacher (R-Idiot) was on with Lou..he mentioned doing the "people's business..like minimum wage legislation)...so I decided to do some simple math..

They think they're being overly generous with $7.50...:eyes:

[HughBeaumont]

25. Anyone who thinks 7.50 is too much to pay someone ought not to be in business.

Ohio's minimum is 6.85, up from 5.15 in 1997. Factoring inflation over 10 years, you're really only paying the person 0.28 more.

[gratuitous]

7. And nobody leaves the light on or a window open

The margin so many people live on is so razor thin, it's an outright shame to hear Republican congressmen whine about having to scrape by on a six-figure salary, separate office account, and travel allowance.

But let's give Paris Hilton another tax cut, the poor dear!

[Bluerthanblue]

8. if you can find an apartment for 500 a month

that allows kids in my area, you'd have a great job as a real estate agent.

Never mind one that didn't charge seperately for heat. $15 a month for gas wouldn't begin to cover a seasons heat.

But we both know that-

Pretty crazy eh?

peace,
blu

[Le Taz Hot]

140. I thought all rentals must "allow"

children. Well, besides the over 55 places. At least in California it it.

[Bluerthanblue]

143. the over 55 places are by far the

most reasonable and cleanest places available here in NH. But being a single mother with one school age child left, who's been looking for a place- I've found that while the LAW says that you cannot refuse to rent to someone because they have children, it is done all the time.

Property owners don't HAVE to rent to anyone. If I was willing to give my son the only bedroom in a 1br place, the owner could say that they won't rent a 1b to anyone other than a single person, or a 'couple'.

What the law says, and what people have to deal with, (fighting injustice takes time energy and money) are often two very different things.

We have NO available affordable housing in our Capitol- It's a real crisis.

peace,
blu

[Le Taz Hot]

146. Got it.

Just like in the job market I'm "overqualified." Translation: You're 51 and too old to hire.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

214. Me too. I'm almost 52.

Can't find a job - 12 years of college, years of experience and 3 degrees including a doctorate in law. Couldn't get a paralegal job to save my ass.

And I keep reading that paralegals are a growing field, in demand, and that law is one field that can't be outsourced. Whatever they are saying seems to be a lie.

And same thing with my honey and his BS & MS. Can't get jobs to save our lives. Let alone good ones where we could use our skills - those don't exist at all.
Only jobs around are shit jobs.

He's almost 61 so we've decided to get out of the city and retire to the country.

[Gormy Cuss]

147. Your example is one of the legal ways to discriminate, in most instances.

A landlord can refuse to rent a one bedroom unit to a parent and older child based on overcrowding, even if you were planning to use the living room as a second bedroom. Property owners have the right to maintain a reasonable occupancy limit in many parts of the country. There are other ways that children are excluded within legal bounds, too. Where there's any wiggle room in the law, some property owners will exploit it.

There are also many subtle yet illegal ways used to deny units and prospective tenants don't pursue action.

[bluerum]

9. Rent $500!?1? Where you livin - East Cow Pie Township?? eom

[hfojvt]

39. I checked my local paper

there's a couple of one bedroom apts for $300 a month.

[NMMNG]

53. An efficiency/studio won't rent for less than $500 in my area

And those are the "roach motel" varieties in crime infested areas. If you want one that is relatively safe and clean they go for $800-$1200. 1 bedrooms start at $800 (for the crappy ones) and go up from there.

[hfojvt]

68. sometimes I cannot figure out how anybody lives in a large city

on any income. Much less why. $10,000 a year on rent, and no reasonable way to buy a house either.

[NMMNG]

69. These aren't large cities I'm referring to

Two of them are small "cities" having about 36K and 34K residents respectively. These are the places I mentioned where you can find the low-rent "roach motels". The surronding towns have much smaller populations--and higher rents. It's downright scary.

[bluerum]

82. Over $700 here. I live about 25 miles west of Boston. eom

[Turn CO Blue]

95. Ah yes, but the law here says that children MUST

have a separate bedroom (per apartment rental agreements).

It was the same when I lived in Texas when my son turned 6 months old; we had to move to a two-bedroom apartment out of our efficiency. It was an extra $90 per month - an absolute fortune to me at the time.

[Occulus]

131. My 2BR is $550

With a fireplace, even. Shitty insulation, though, and the carpet needed replacing when I moved in.

College town in SW MI.

[ComerPerro]

42. that's the one figure that isn't impossibly low. you can find even 2BR

for five hundred a month, even in a college town. They are small and they are not always in the best areas, but i think that's the point.

[murloc]

122. Theres many low cost cities where this can be done

Where you can get a decent 1brm apartment for $500ish.

Of course I'm not talking about Boston, NYC, San Francisco, La, etc but most Midwestern cities is quite doable.

[SoCalDem]

123. That's true, but often the wages are depressed in the midwest

It's always a catch-22 proposition. Where housing is cheap, wages are often low.:grr:

[raccoon]

129. I live in a one-bedroom in upstate SC for $450, and while it's not

a luxury apartment, it's nice enough.

Housing prices vary so much from one area to another. And so do wages.

[jhasp]

137. I was paying $490 per month for a nice 2 bedroom apartment

in Fayetteville, AR. Because we have 2 kids now, we went for a decent 3 bedroom (1300 sq. ft) apartment for $600 per month. You can get a livable 2 bedroom around here for about $425 and if you go outside of Fayetteville (a lot of college students) the rent goes down. Seven years ago I rented a new, very nice 2 bedroom/2bath apartment in Joplin, MO for $340 per month and 4 years ago I rented out a 2 bedroom house for $480 per month (I would probably charge $550 per month for the same house today). Affordable housing is available. You also didn't add in the equation EITC, she would qualify for about $2000 per year (about $175 per month), but I think that your childcare estimate is a little low ($50 per week?) unless the kid is in school and only going to the sitter 2 hours per day.

[Jacobin]

13. No car insurance?

No oil change?

no clothing?

[SoCalDem]

15. No NUTHIN!!

except all those wonderful applications for "pre-approved" plastic..

and that's what keeps the "fabulous economy" whirring along, folks..

poor people maxxing out plastic so they can "make ends meet"....until they hit the wall, and end up being vilified by the rich for being irresponsible.

[Jacobin]

29. I'm a bankruptcy lawyer

I know

[EFerrari]

72. No medical care, no dental, nothing can break or wear out.

No natural disasters and please please no layoffs.

No wonder Big Pharma is so big when we build so much anxiety into the lives of American workers. :(

[itsrobert]

14. You forgot to add in her child support

and possible alimony payments.

[SoCalDem]

16. Hah!

:rofl:

[Der Blaue Engel]

191. I'll second that hah!

Let's see now, where'd I put all that alimony and child support money I was rakin' in? Oh, yeah: in my dreams.

[SoCalDem]

193. My friend accidentally GOT all her back child support..

She ran into an old pal at the mall, and that friend told her about how her ex-husband had won a judgement fromt he city of carson..My friend hotfooted it to her lawyer, and they deducted 12 years' worth of court-mandated child support from that judgement. She chuckled every time she thought about the face he must have made when he got HIS share..

of course california deducted $2k from HER share for WIC and AFDC they paid her when she was left high and dry with a 2 yr old.

that chunk o' change sent her daughter to college :)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

34. I'm female and I had to pay child support on my own kid to the father.

That's what daddies do sometimes when they don't want the kid. Punish mom for having a healthy, beautiful, sweet, smart kid!!!
:wtf:

[jhasp]

138. Who had custody?

If he had custody, then you should be paying child support. If not, you need a better lawyer.

[lumberjack_jeff]

151. And this is wrong... why? n/t

[Megahurtz]

175. No, they just do that to avoid paying

and to get money from you.

Oh and don't forget the Tax Write Off!!!

Assholes.:grr:

[raccoon]

132. Alimony? Of all the divorced women I've ever known, only one was awarded alimony. nt

[cgrindley]

152. I paid it

what a waste of money.

Personally, it's about time that the courts intervened, quashed tender years and made child custody utterly blind to gender. The current system is so intensely sexist and unfair as to sicken anyone who ever brushes up against it.

[slutticus]

187. Dad?!?! Is that you?

Oh wait...you never paid us shit.....




:rofl:

[John Q. Citizen]

17. Your point is spot on. I'd switch some of the values around a bit though.

For one thing, if you multiply a week by 4.3 weeks it equals one month (almost exactly)

[SoCalDem]

19. I know, but in real life, the 5-week months are a "blessing"

and that "extra money" probably goes pretty fast..

and poor folks don;t get paid vacations, and probably work 52 weeks a year :)

[John Q. Citizen]

33. No, I used to do documenting of incomes and 4.33 is the multiplyer used for

converting a weeks income into a monthly income


Just for accuracy there are approximitly 4.33 weeks in an average month.

So $350 x 4.33 =$1515.5 a month in gross income.

[LynneSin]

18. Or if they're ok living out in the middle of fricking nowhere

I mean, if this person lives in or near a major city $500 rent is non-existant

[Lone_Star_Dem]

28. And if they do then gas cost would be higher

Not to mention my minimum water bill (as in the minimum they charge no matter how much I use) is more that twice that and $30 barely covers the fees just to have my electric before I get charged for KWH usage.

[DeSwiss]

36. I'm the managing agent....

...for a housing co-op in Nashville. We're one of only three co-op's in the whole state. We charge $485 for a 1BR, $515 for a 2Br and $565 for a 3BR. Co-op member's rates are even cheaper. Its different when the members own the business....

http://hometown.aol.com/johnneca/index.html

But then, we're a nonprofit co-op!
:)

[notadmblnd]

20. Whos chart is this, where do you find day care at $50 a week?

and they better become vegetarians, cause they're going to eat a lot of grass.

[SoCalDem]

23. I made it deliberately low to point out that even at $10, it's IMPOSSIBLE

:)

[notadmblnd]

27. I saw that up thread after I posted

thanks.

[blues90]

22. Yeah , the great economy at work here .

Here in southern calif you nay find a shot gun shack for $500 per month .

Then you hear all these adds on the radio how to get a degree or high worth investers who have 500,000 or more invested , or all the grand scheme work at home jobs that make you a MILLIONAIR in just a few short month , I want to throw up every time I hear one of these adds .

[PghTiny]

31. Aw, c'mon...

<sarcasm>They can't get 2 or more minimum wage jobs at 30 hours/week each, and no public transit to those jobs. Since when did you need sleep, anyways? We must treat our workers like crap so that the god-almighty KKKorporation$ can make that extra penny</sarcasm>

[SoCalDem]

32. Add a dad to the mix (also making $10 an hour)

2165.76

-900 more reaslistic rent for 3
-240 additional gasoline
-50 phone
-75 electric
-50 gas
-30 water


-300 extra car payment
-300 more realistic day care
220.76 "left" over to feed 3 people and maybe buy car insurance for the two cars..

[demobabe]

44. This is assuming someone has health care with their $10/hr job

Let's assume our family either bought or were given a couple rust bucket cars, so they don't have the car payment.

If they don't get health insurance from their job, then they will be paying a minimum of $600-700 per month for health insurance.

AND since you're SoCalDem, our $900 will probably get them a 1 bedroom apartment in So Cal, unless someone gives them a break on rent.

They still don't have money for food. OR they might have some food money but no health insurance...

Hey! Ever wonder why so many Americans are uninsured?

If our same family is living in Hawaii however, they would be paying about $50 per month for health insurance for the adults and the child would be covered 100% for free by Hawaii's health system.

However, they'd now be living in a studio apartment, and their electric would be about $200 per month.

Oh, and a gallon of milk is $4 on sale.

[Carni]

55. Our health insurance is like 1400 a month

My husband is covered by his employer...they are covering half of our daughter and we still pay 650 bucks a month.

He is at a very small company, so I am glad they are picking up half the cost of of our daughter's insurance, because they don't have to.

This current society under this regime is BULLSHIT!!!!!

Oh..and on top of that?

Prior to getting insurance through his employer (because our small business of 20 years failed under this bush economy and we lost virtually everything and didn't have any insurance for a year) I managed to get sick- needed 20 grand worth of mandatory surgery and now have that shit on my debt horizon.

Ain't life just grand under the bush administration?

[jhasp]

139. There are better options out there.

If you are healthy, high deductible insurers will run about $50 to $60 per month per person (check out Golden Rule insurance) and you will save the money for the deductibles rather quickly. Or if there are some health problems that make it so that you can't use high deductibles for everyone, see if your state has a CHIP available. My wife has liver problems, so most non-employer insurers won't cover her. We were able to go through the CHIP (which has no income qualification) and get her insurance for $192 per month. You can even ask your husband's employer for a raise if they are no longer covering his health insurance-he should get it.

[Carni]

144. I have a pre-existing thing

This insurance covers pre-existing conditions so that's what we went with (not that I wouldn't love to pay less!)

Thank you though, I will check out the options that what you suggested! :)

[progressivebydesign]

157. Ah... just saw the pre-existing thing... darn. n/t

[progressivebydesign]

156. My husbands is covered, too.. but I only pay 225 TOTAL for me and daughter.

You should shop around for health care outside of his employer. We did, went with Blue Shield, and got a good plan that costs only 227 per month for both of us. We don't have the extensive benefits that his does, but we rarely need a doctor. HUGE difference to what we'd pay if we went thru his employer. And we have dental for 47 bux every three months.

[Carni]

163. Maybe I should shop around

My pre-existing deal wasn't cancerous, but I had a large benign tumor (in a very inconvenient place attached to other things) and it had to be removed (scared the hell out of me of course)

I shouldn't have any further problems, but my big fear is that if I do, I won't be covered--although I guess really any company could pull that so maybe I will still check things out.

[demobabe]

37. Where do you get daycare for $50 per week???

I mean, I know you made this to be an absurd example, but realitically in most places, our single mom wouldn't be able to find daycare for under $600 per month unless she had a family member volunteering. So not counting fica, our single mom really only has $400 to live off of, which might mean she can rent a room in a house somewhere and NOT eat and not even have money for bus fare.

[ComerPerro]

41. that's the point though. Any realistic numbers could be rejected by RWers

saying "that's too high".

so the intent of the poster was to use impossibly low numbers, that almost no one who lives in the real world would argue is too high, to show that even with these low figures it cannot be done.

[demobabe]

47. Please tell me you don't really eat dogs

Has the world come to this? Can I send you a couple dollars for food? ;)

[SoCalDem]

49. Comer perro? as in "dog-eat-dog world" maybe?

:)

[ComerPerro]

64. despite much speculation, my name was not meant to imply

although i suppose it could

[951-Riverside]

38. She could get public housing assistance & food stamps n/t

[SoCalDem]

43. Her "income" would be $18,200 a year..isn't that above" the "poverty" level?

and there's about a 4 year wait for "reduced housing" in my town.. Where does she live, while she waits ?

[demobabe]

51. AND, isn't the whole idea is for her not to be on public assistance?

We're trying to make the case of how a person (or family) could live on an impossibly low wage that is still ABOVE the current proposed minimum wage.

AND public assistance still continues to be cut... Section 8 takes forever to kick in... if you have no family to help you out, you're basically screwed. The only other outlet is church.

[EFerrari]

70. She would have to chose between sitting in those offices for hours

and going to work.

[bread_and_roses]

78. Not likely

If she's eligible at all for FS, it would be a incredibly small $ amount. Not that she wouldn't go through the endless paperwork and humiliation one is subjected to, she probably would - after all, a few gallons of milk is a few gallons of milk - but here, at least, the office is only open during the day. If you want to apply, you have to take off work, if you work anytime 9-5. It takes too long to do "over lunch." If you work evenings, say, you might - if you can get a babysitter, or resign yourself to spending hours and hours in a waiting room with a small child - AND if, say, you don't have to be at work at 2-3-4pm cause you might not get out in time...you get the picture.

As for section 8 housing, often the office here is not even taking applications - for years at a time, seriously - because the waiting list is so long. It's that underfunded. Very few low-wage workers actually get all the "benefits" they are theoretically entitled to.

And besides, WHY should our taxes (which pay for those benefits) go to subsidize WALMART's low wages?

[NMMNG]

40. I read the subject line and was thinking..

I couldn't live easily on $10 an hour so I'd like to know who is trying to claim that a single mom with a kid can do it. :crazy:

Nice breakdown. :thumbsup:

[MGD]

45. - $15 for gas and - $30 for electricity? When was this table made, 1977?

[SoCalDem]

48. deliberately low..to prove that is cannot be done

see "add a Dad" and the post below that one :)

[MGD]

106. deliberately pointed out...to illustrate your point.

:D

[SoCalDem]

107. And?

The income is well within the "norm".. the circumstance is as well..

The only part I "low-balled", was the expenses, because in different parts of the country they DO vary..

If someone with HIGHER than minimum wages and LOWER than normal expenses cannot manage, why is $7.50 minimum wage somehow considered "too high"..

THAT was the "point"
:hi:

[mntleo2]

46. But, But, But, She CAN'T Be Poor!

...not when she is so LUCKY to be working for some psycho boss who thinks they are being generous when they allow her to stay home with her sick kid (without pay, of course)instead of only allowing her to take sick leave for herself! Oh and when they are so nice to "provide uniforms" (that she is expected to clean and is expected to pay for if it becomes stained, torn or ruined in some way) and well, especially when she "gets" to keep her job for 3 whole months after childbirth (unpaid of course) and is is expected to get back to work when her baby is still a newborn and still nursing.

I lived on $12.00 an hour with 3 kids and let me tell you it is not pretty. 100% of welfare recipients are on public assistance because they do not receive child support and only 405 of them even have a court order to get it.

Cat In Seattle

[SoCalDem]

50. and many are LUCKY to even GET 35 hrs a week

many bosses prefer to work their "low paid" people six 5's to keep them "eager & hungry" for more hours.. and if they piss the boss off, they change it to six 4's...

[hfojvt]

52. why is she only working 35 hours a week?

If she worked 40 hours and had 52 weeks a year instead of 48, she'd be making $1733 a month instead of $1400. Secondly there should not be any federal or state with-holding. She would owe no taxes in my state and for federal taxes she would get $1768 in EIC which she can get in advance as $147 a month.

That gives her another $690 a month
$333
$147
$210 ($52.5 x 4)

[SoCalDem]

54. 40 hour weeks are as common as the dodo bird

These days "low calibre' people are usually only "guaranteed" TWENTY hours, and 'full time' is usually above 35 hours.

[AllieB]

57. Many employers do this so they don't have to pay benefits

Also, for many single moms, earning more than X amount of money means that their children don't have access to the few benefits they receive from the government like reduced cost health and child care. This really is a testament to how we treat the least among us, namely our children. So much for our 'family values'. :grr:

[demobabe]

60. Well, she could get a second part time job

But of course after we subtract the childcare expenses, she's only netting at best a couple bucks an hour.

Well, that means she can now afford to eat rice and beans or noodles for every single meal... maybe throw in a couple dozen eggs per month.

Yum.

Still no health insurance for when she collapses from exhaustion and malnutrition.

[SoCalDem]

62. and still no car insurance n/t

[demobabe]

73. Right!

And it brings up the point, who exactly is raising the kids?

Is it any wonder why the kids are growing up with so many problems? They don't get to know either parent anymore it seems.

If Republicans are so strong on "family values" they should consider a living wage that would enable parents to spend time with their kids instead of letting MTV raise them.

[smoogatz]

75. When I was an hourly worker (and I was for a number of years)

none of my many crappy jobs ever paid us to sit around and eat lunch. You were there for 40, you got paid for 35 (lunch and two 15 minute breaks).

[Der Blaue Engel]

192. Clearly because she's selfish and lazy

:eyes:

[Saphire]

56. Been there, done that. don't forget all of the other "misc." expenses..

[Jonathan50]

58. My wife is a regional manager for an international retail chain..

Starting pay in their stores runs around $6.25 an hour and you will be lucky to start at full time, most employees are part timers.

Benefits are actually quite good for full timers. Insurance the same as one of the plans offered to a major aerospace manufacturer union employees for the same price. Quite generous sick leave and vacation benefits, at least two weeks the first year.

Full timers can get up to about $8.00 an hour and a manager in training can get a bit more than that. A store manager is going to make about $30k/year plus 1/2 percent of sales and a bonus for each quarter you manage to keep your payroll within budget.

The company is privately owned and really quite lenient in many ways to their employees, I've heard of them getting away with stuff that would get you fired many places..

Truly, the pay sucks but sometimes you have to take what you can get.

[kath]

59. Daycare at $50 per week?!?!!!! Not any kind of even remotely decent daycare,

and if we're talking an infant or toddler, not any daycare that wouldn't be very likely to be damaging to the child.

[RB TexLa]

61. apparently the kid also never eats. n/t

[SoCalDem]

63. he's such a quiet little kid.. sleeps all the time..

:sarcasm:

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

65. This just makes me sad (nt).

[lonestarnot]

66. What a fucking liveable wage!

NOT!

[Deja Q]

80. Put into perspective, here's the cost of the new PC Dell is selling to the Chinese:

$350.

[Spiffarino]

67. In Bangladesh.

They ought to take that generous paycheck and live there. Damn ungrateful single moms. :sarcasm:

[Swamp Rat]

71. Yeah, if they lived in Brazil.

:freak:

[eridani]

74. The more you have, the cheaper it actually is to live

Paid off house with a big basement, where we can stock up on Costco specials on everything non-perishable, plus a big freezer for perishables. Paid off 1990 Honda that runs fine at 36 mpg. No laundromat nonsense--washer and dryer allow multitasking and are much cheaper. No debt of any kind. It was far, far more expensive (not to mention time-consuming) for us as poorer renters paying off student loans.

[EFerrari]

76. Not to mention, most retail stuff is more expensive in low income hoods.

I used to be this mom. Ends met because I used mirrors.

[progressivebydesign]

77. a single dad couldn't live on that either.

just thought I'd point that out, as everything is always about single moms...

[Deja Q]

81. But men are evil, don'cha'know...

:(

And the calculations presented isn't exactly happytown for a single person either.

[MedleyMisty]

87. Uhh...

How do you get "men are evil" out of a budget for a single mom with one kid?

I don't think anything was meant by the choice of a female parent. Aren't the majority of single parents female?

http://singleparents.about.com/od/legalissues/p/portrait.htm

"According to the U.S. Census Bureau...

She is a Mother:
83.1% of custodial parents are mothers
16.9% of custodial parents are fathers"

[Le Taz Hot]

141. THANK YOU!

N/T.

[taught_me_patience]

83. I've got some problems with your calcs

why the 35 hr. work week? A simple 40hr work week would get her to $1,680/month (8hr/day*$10*21work days/month). A 50 hour work week would get her to $2100/month. Taxes should be very low.

Your gasoline estimate is very high. She could get by w/2 fill ups per month. There is no reason to commute a long distance for a job that is $10/hr.

If she rents and apartment, then they ususally pay for the water.

Electric seems a bit low, if she's in a warm climate and way low if she's in a cold climate.

The car payment is way high. I think she could find a nice car for $100/month. Maintenence on the car might be another 20/month average.

Daycare seems way low. Hopefully her parents would help out. If the kid is old enough to be in school, then this expense would be unnecessary.

Driving w/out insurance is pure suicide. It is a danger to her, her kids, and society. $50/month for liability is MANDATORY if she wants to drive.

All in all, even with an average of 50 hr work week, life would be very difficult in most places in the country. Here in Los Angeles, it would be impossible.


taught.

[SoCalDem]

88. Most $10 hr workers would LOVE a 40 hr fulltime job

Most people in the "low-paid" fields whom I have known (been one myself on occasions) are strictly part-timers, begging for hours and trying to make it to the next check :)

[sandnsea]

93. The $10 hr is being GENEROUS

Remember. In much of the country minimum wage is STILL $5.15. A $10 hr job in those areas are incredibly hard to come by. So go ahead and recalculate any way you want, but do it between $5.15 and $7.80 because that's the actual hourly wage most low income folks are making.

[MLFerrell]

84. Gas in the winter is more to the tune of...

$200-$400 per month. At least it was for me this past winter. Electric is about $40 / mo, and $50 per week daycare? Where do I sign up? Not that I have kids, but I know it's more than that in my neck of the woods.

Mind you, I live off of less than that, but it's just me, and I routinely forgo such luxuries as cable, a telephone, a car (and associated expenses), new clothes, etc. My one creature comfort is high-speed internet, for which I gladly shell out $46.13 per month.

Did I mention that I make $6.50 / hr? Thank God that I live in a town with exemplary public transportation, and don't mind having virtually no life. Oh, and student loans help too, not that there is all that much left over after tuition & fees have been paid.

Whatever happened to the American Dream?

PAGING AMERICAN DREAM: Please pick up the white courtesy phone at the front desk. A concerned party wishes to speak with you...

[Tsiyu]

100. I hear you

I've been waiting for that call for years

Sittin' here between the devil and the deep blue sea.


Have some coffee while you wait? :donut:

[tnlefty]

85. I'm gonna ask...what kind of decent day care does one receive for

$50 bucks per week? I'm not really sure that I want to know because the price of day care for my first was enough for me to stay home. He was a preemie, had some meds to take and he was on an apnea monitor and the cost per week for him was going to be $300/week because he was a "high needs" infant. Most of the parents that I knew then were paying much more than $50/wk and still had problems with their day care providers.

Now, please explain to me what happens to parents who are working for $10/hr. or minimum wage, or slightly higher wages could afford this especially if they don't have health insurance to help with the hospital costs of having the misfortune to go into labor early?

[zulchzulu]

86. Prostitution should be configured in the budget

:sarcasm:

[Craftergrl]

89. Don't mean to rain on the cry fest...but...

Where does this $10.00 an hour example coming from?

I do have sympathy. I do. But...

I grew up in the hills of North Carolina. My family were all poor and they all worked in hosiery mills. My mother was a drug dealer and my dad was a biker. I lived in 11 different homes after they divorced when I was 9. I was abused in unbelievable ways. Twice in my life I've been homeless. So I know poor..I know hungry..I know all about cold and alone...ok? Been there done that, have the scars..

One day I decided I wasn't going to be homeless and poor anymore. I applied and got a job at Shuford Mills in Hickory. They make ShurTape and other things. If you look at a roll of duct tape and it says made in Hickory, NC...that's where I worked. For $5.00 an hour sweeping floors and other crap jobs. And I start saving a little money out of every check I got.

This whole time I was planning on where I was going to go. I saved up for months until I got $1000 then I packed the car up and left.

When I got to the new town I looked for the highest paying employer I could find. It was a software company. So I started doing research on what jobs they had open and how I was going to get in the door. I enrolled in a local community college using Pell grants and student loans. I found an apartment with 4 other people in it and they let me have a bed.

The job I wanted was a phone support position. So I found some people that worked there and asked them if I could talk to them about their job. I found out what the interview was going to be like. So I studied for weeks. I failed the first interview. I learned from my mistake and 3 months later I interviewed again and was offered the job.

I started my career making $1300 a month at one of the largest software companies in the world. I was taking helpdesk calls for people that couldn't type A:Install on their computer.

I worked in that position for a year and applied for a promotion in the testing department and got it. For $15.00 an hour + over time.

With those skills I applied at a different company as a helpdesk manager and got it making $18.00 an hour.

A year of that and I packed up the car and moved to Dallas, TX. I had different jobs there.

1. Helpdesk manager for $28 an hour.
2. Senior helpdesk tech for $30 an hour.
3. Manager at EDS (of Ross Perot fame) for $50,000 a year base salary + bonus.

After a year there I moved to Colorado.
1. Senior level software tester for $35hr.
2. Test team manager $45hr.

I started my own real estate business on the side.

So now I make over six figures anually.

I remember back in that crappy dirty sweaty mill job telling the other people what I was planning and asking them why didn't they go back to school. I was told by everyone of them that they didn't want to. We all make our choices right?

Opportunities are out there, you just gotta want them. I went to local community college and said I need finacial aid, they said "here ya go". There's nothing stopping anyone in the US from doing what I did. Nothing.

I have a close friend who owns a roofing company. Her parents came over the Mexican border many years ago. She was born here. Her father got deported and is in Mexico. Her mother is still here and was made a citizen. They know all about hardship. She says this to me one day, I pay really good wages, but I can't find enough people to hire so I have to hire illegals. I have to hire who I can I hire to get the job done or I lose these contracts. I gotta pay my mortgage just like everyone else.

Jobs are out there.

Nothing stopping anyone from going down to the local library and typing in a google search on jobs and salaries. Monster.com. Companies like Volt, Sapphire, Teksystems fill jobs all over the country.

You ask for food I'll feed you. I volunteered several of my rental properties to katrina victims. I give a percentage of my income to charaties that provide for people in need because I've been there.

But don't ask me to point fingers and blame the world and join the cry fest because someone is making $10 an hour.

[SoCalDem]

90. Happy for you

YOU

[Craftergrl]

91. ...

My sarcasm detector is off the scale here... :freak:

[Craftergrl]

92. In case the point was missed...

That wasn't a bragfest.

The point is that no matter how low you start out, if you want something bad enough you can better your situation.

You just got to plan it out, put your head down and work for it.

[Lilith Velkor]

97. We read such stories every single fucking time there's a thread on poverty

We know the fucking drill, Horatio. :eyes:

[JanMichael]

171. You are soo right. Every damned time. "But I made it!"

It never fails.

[SoCalDem]

173. Yep..our old pal Ann Ecdotal always shows up to "cheer us all up"

and prove that bootstraps are highly effective..

too bad that poor folks often wear plastic sandals from walmart:)

[hfojvt]

112. conditional statement there

"If you want something bad enough ..."

Then, by definition, anybody who does not make it, just did not want it bad enough.

You said there is nothing stopping anybody else from doing what you did, but that is clearly not true. What did you do? You got a good paying job, and you moved up. 1) there are a limited number of good-paying jobs - not enough for everybody who wants one. My story, for example, is kinda the opposite of yours. I started out with a great family, upper middle class, hard-working, decent, etc. Got a full daddy scholarship, (although I still feel that if I had been as good at basketball as I was at math, that a school would have recruited and paid for my schooling instead of making my dad do it. Plus, it kinda seems like the financial aid system punishes people who save.) Got one fairly good-paying job for the military-industrial complex. Found it to be a boring, bureaucratic waste of a life and not something I believed in either. Another job I applied for, seemed much more worthwhile and interesting, but they said they would move me around at random intervals. Promised to move me to California after a year, and that was a deal-breaker for me. Etc. Got a master's degree. Started my own business, which never made money and I closed after seven years. Worked as a temp for 3 years, learned a variety of jobs in my area, but did not get hired after four applications. Applied four times at the local community college, never once even got an interview, not even for a math tutoring job (is an MA a handicap? Am I over-qualified for the ground-floor and do not have any experience for the upper-levels?)
2) there are not enough grants and financial aid for people, and Republicans have been cutting them for six years. I know college grads who are still burdened with student loans 3) everybody cannot get a promotion, again there are a limited number, 4) for every success story, there are a dozen of people who banged their head against a wall and got doodly-squat, but they don't usually go around bragging about it. If they do, they had better be prepared for a bunch of 'well, it was YOUR fault' diatribes. After all, they JUST did not try hard enough, plan enough, or work for it.

[raccoon]

133. And hopefully, you won't develop a disability fo fuck it all up.

:sarcasm:

Which happened to me.

[Marie26]

136. I don't know how you could do that w/a child.

You acknowledge that a child changes the equation significantly? How can you "save up" money when it's all gone (and then some) w/child care? How can you go to school & work at the same time - who's taking care of the child? How can you pack up & move easily? How could you get ahead in a career when $1000 a month is taken up w/day care costs? It's a nice story, but you seem to be overlooking how much being a single parent makes that kind of story difficult/almost impossible.

[Scout]

167. they should have thought of that BEFORE they had the child!

:eyes: :sarcasm:

[Bluerthanblue]

145. not true-

I admire your success, and applaud your drive, but your claim that wanting something bad enough equals a better situation is a cruel and often used lie.

There ARE those- (far too many) who struggle with everything they have, and against impossible odds, and yet still aren't blessed with success.

Not because "they" didn't try as hard as you, or any other 'successful' person, but because life is NOT fair. And quite bluntly and honestly, SHIT happens. To GOOD people- without rhyme or reason.

And it pisses me off, that those who have won the 'mis-fortune lottery' are then crucified as being 'less' than those who enjoy success, and blamed for their lack of success.

It is by pure dumb luck that you and I weren't fated to have had the mis-fortune to have been born into the arms of a woman living in Somalia, or Iraq, or the lower 9th ward of NOLA.

Most people have to really 'work' to live a decent life, but there are many who 'work' like crazy, and never realize success.

peace,
blu

[Craftergrl]

179. I agree...however

Did you read where I came from? There are people 20min west of where I lived that didn't have indoor plumbing.

I didn't win life's lottery. I had down turns and up swings. I got layed off once in the middle of my career and was out of work for 7 months.

My mom and I were talking about this exact thing. We were talking about my salary and such. And she asked me "where did I miss the boat?" I said a lot to her.

She had been best friends with a millionaire land developer in N.C. I said, "Did you ever ask him to mentor you? Did you ever ask him to fund any of your ideas or help get started with your own business? Did you ever ask him to teach you how to do what he does?"

No she replied. I said well...there was one missed boat. I continued, "You know more about plants than any human I've ever met. I bet you could make a brick grow if you wanted. You have 40 acres, so start a nursery. You have the skill, you have the land...what's stopping you?"

She says to me "I don't have the time". I said to her "You've never really missed the boat until you're dead. You can still choose to better your situation. But if you choose not to then don't complain about where you are."

but your claim that wanting something bad enough equals a better situation is a cruel and often used lie.
There ARE those- (far too many) who struggle with everything they have, and against impossible odds, and yet still aren't blessed with success.

It's not cruel at all. What's the old quote; necessity is the mother of invention?
What's truely cruel, is people standing around telling poor people they can't help but be poor. My grandmother tried that crap on me when I was a young. She said to me "You're poor and you might as well accept that. You can't afford college." She actually said that to me word for word. First thought that went through my head was "BS!!"

And success is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I plan on selling everything with in a couple years and buying a little farm back east. To me that's success. Because it will make me happy. I don't live like Al Gore, John Edwards, Rush limbaugh, the Clintons, the Kennedy's or the every other multi-millionaires we see in the news that live in big monster homes. I don't drive an expensive car and never will. It's a waste.

If that's your idea of success then maybe a dose of reality is in order. I'll post a thread in general later about this..

[Clark2008]

195. What a load of Bullshit.

Did you have a child while you were doing all this scheming?

I'm sorry, but not everyone gets those kinds of breaks. In fact, most don't. Especially not an overly tired single mother.

Look, I'm happy for you, but your situation is NOT indicative of the job market out there today - at least not in my town.

[Craftergrl]

203. So?

Breaks? What breaks are you talking about? I went out and found the job I wanted then went and got the skills necessary to be hired.

I was high school drop out for crying out loud.

You and the majority of the people on this thread would have you believe that all anyone can do is just give up.

People that would rather sit around and complain and spew their cynicism rather than give people ideas. Rather than actually do something about their situation. Let's all just lie here and wallow in misery. The victim from birth syndrome is just BS.

http://www.job-hunt.org/jobs/newhampshire.shtml

I know there are people that have made choices that have put themselves in precarious situations. But to say that no one in any situation can't better themselves because "The Man" is keeping them down is just insane. Which is what most of the responses are illuding to. :tinfoilhat:

[Nikia]

96. But that might be difficult for single parents

Working and going to school with a child. Some people also may not live in a prosperous area job wise and have ties to the area that might make it difficult to move. Everyone is not above average either mentally or physically, which are usually qualities necessary for succeeding in better paying jobs.

[sandnsea]

98. And so???

Other people went to college and discovered their jobs were outsourced or otherwise taken over by the govt. Some went to college and got injured in silly things like skiing accidents and are disabled for life. Others have children with special needs. Life doesn't follow the same line for everybody. Count your blessings.

[World Traveller]

101. Pulled myself up by bootstraps but sympathize with single moms

Craftergrl,

I admire your pluck and determination. And you are right that that we can control many aspects of our destiny, we just have to have incredible focus, refuse to get de-railed, and pick ourselves up when we make mistakes.

My story is similiar to yours, except that I came from poor but hard-working lower middle class people. However, they were stifling and domineering, and many of their values (right wing) were different from mine, so I struck out on my own in my early twenties, and moved to another state where I didn't know a soul and didn't have a job when I arrived. I joke now and say I was the poorest person I knew at the time (True!!).

It was INCREDIBLY difficult. I was single and I don't think I could have succeeded (got an MBA and good job w/multinational) if I had had to bring a child or children along with me.

I couldn't even take care of my cat, I had to give him away, while I was working and going to school at same time. Some months I barely made the rent, how could I have paid for child care?

I do believe in personal responsibility but we can't be judgemental of others until we walk a mile in their shoes.

[Craftergrl]

183. OHH!

I loved your story!!! :hug:

I still refer to myself as the trash of the neighborhood... the neighbors don't get the joke but oh well.. heheh!

I do believe in personal responsibility but we can't be judgemental of others until we walk a mile in their shoes.

I totally agree. I've walked in a lot of those shoes and I give money to beggers. My friends get angry at me and say they are just going to go buy alcohol. I don't care. It makes me cry. It's not my responsibility what they do with it. When I get asked on the street for money so someone can go buy food they get all I have. That doesn't mean everyone else has to. That's just me.

I'm sure there will be tons on DU that will tell me I'm naive and foolish for doing it, but I don't care. I look into their faces and it makes me cry. I don't judge.

[libnnc]

102. There are still good paying mill jobs in NC?

How long ago was that first successful step you took?

Those jobs are disappearing faster than mom's homemade chocolate cake at Sunday dinner.

Here in the Triad, thousands of people line up for just 150 job openings. The big plants don't come to this area anymore, (and I don't expect Dell to stay here in Forsyth County more than 10 years).

[Craftergrl]

182. Nope...

I made $5.00 an hour in the mill I was in.

I didn't actually make anything until after I left. I've never understood why people stay there in those little towns and suffer.

Even then I worked in a sweat shop until my 2nd semester at college.

Here's one for ya,

http://www.premiereglobal.com/

Located in Colorado Springs. They'll hire you with virtually no skills to answer phones. Start you out at almost $14.00 an hour. The phone agents that have been there a while that make team lead make almost $60,000 a year. -and they are hiring.

Make the choice to go get what you want.

[libnnc]

196. So how does one get clear across the country to the promised land?

Last time I checked, there were no free bus tickets or train rides.

Oh, that's right. I think I read down-thread that you borrowed a car. So that means you were LUCKY enough to have someone loan you wheels to get out of Dodge to find that wonderful job that pays $14 an hour almost 2 thousand miles away.

Now I understand.

[Craftergrl]

204. Do you smoke?

[libnnc]

205. Do you eat kittens?

What the fuck does smoking have to do with this thread?

[Craftergrl]

206. I'll type slow...

Just to be helpful..

Last time I checked, there were no free bus tickets or train rides.

Throwing money away on vices has everything to do with thread about finacial issues.

[SoCalDem]

207. Where are the "vices" in the original example? Is a child a "vice"? n/t

[Craftergrl]

210. Do you understand the meaning of the word vice?

[SoCalDem]

211. Love the smell of snark in the morning

:P

[libnnc]

212. who mentioned vices in this thread?

Not I.

I talked about transportation. Getting from point A to point B.

Getting from point A to point B isn't free (unless you walk--you didn't walk from NC to Colorado). In your case LUCK had just as much to do with your success as did your own much celebrated gumption. You were lucky enough to get access to a car that allowed you to change your circumstances.

What do "vices" have to do with that? You can type as slowly as you please. Your posts still don't make much sense.

And for the record: No, dear. I don't smoke.

[uppityperson]

213. I don't smoke. Can I have a free bus ticket?

[Marrah_G]

105. It's tougher when you have a child

Not impossible, but tough. I am raising 3 children on about 650 per week. Here in mass it is a struggle. Thank god they are teens now and childcare isn't needed. Still, going to college is not an option until they are all out on their own. The daily costs of living get higher and higher, wages stay mostly the same. Mind you I am not complaining, we get by as long as there are no emergencies. Just stop and think a little how much more difficult what you accomplished would have been if you had a young child to take care of. Other then that, congrats on doing so well with your life :)

[Robeson]

108. Thanks for the Horatio Alger moment.

[fasttense]

111. That is a great story Craftergrl

My brother's story is very similar but he happened into the dot-com bubble and made millions. Now he doesn't understand why everyone's life is not like his own and votes republic.

Though I came from the same poor background, my story didn't include millions. I worked hard, got ahead, but met many different roadblocks. I can understand how some roadblocks are harder to get around than others. You got Pell grants, lucky you. They have cut back on those and they are almost impossible to get anymore.

You know most of those mills have moved overseas. The best employer in the area is Wal-Mart now. Those IT help desk jobs, they went to India, so did most of the call centers. Real estate is not a profession you want to get into now what with the bubble bursting.

What I'm saying is that you were using a system that doesn't exist anymore. The grants, the mill jobs, the call centers have all gone away. What has replaced them are very low paying jobs and loans that have to be paid back immediately.

My brother success is due in large part to luck. He wont admit it. He thinks it was all due to his great expertise and planning. But we all know that success depends on luck as much as hard work.

[Bridget Burke]

134. "then I packed the car up and left".....

So--you already owned a car. Good for you.

[Craftergrl]

184. borrowed actually...

It was a beat up old chevy chevette that was loaned to me by a friend. It didn't last a full year. No complaints, it got me there. :)

I eventually paid him the $2400 he wanted for it... I was totally ripped off but I didn't have a choice.

[Le Taz Hot]

142. I haven't read past your post

but I'm going to guess you're going to get hammered for your post. You know what you DIDN'T do? Have a baby. I have a similar story myself and the ONE thing that would have pretty much doomed me to poverty the rest of my life was having kids early on. But that's another post. Flame away.

[Bridget Burke]

159. Craftergirl came out pretty heavily against abortion in another thread.

That's her right, of course.

But, contraception fails. Relationships fail. So--add Virginity to the the "recipe for success."

[Maddy McCall]

160. I'm usually not suspicious of newbs...

and I usually do everything I can to welcome them...

But this one...

[Bridget Burke]

162. If you can't say something nice about someone...

Let's have a drink!

Coffee, wine, a saucer of milk....

[Maddy McCall]

165. I'll take the milk.

Mrrowrrr.

:toast:

[Le Taz Hot]

164. Virginity?

Me? Surely you jest. I'm not going to get into this here but, in too many cases, it has to do with choices. Goddess knows I've made some MONUMENTALLY STUPID choices in my life but chose not to drag a child through all that. I know I'm going get thrown out of the liberal old hippie broad club but there are issues that need to be discussed but no one wants to talk about. Especially on this board.

(Kind of) A funny story about failing contraception. I was at the drug store the other day and happened to see a box of the "Today" sponge on the shelf. If you're unfamiliar with what these things look like, they're like a spongy, slightly concave bowl with a sort of "handle" attached which is the way you're supposed to remove it. Anyway, back in my fertile days I made use of one of these devices. After a particularly, uh, active night, I woke up the next day to find I was lying next to it. (The sponge, not the partner.) Needless to say this did not inspire confidence in the usefulness of the product. As it turns out, fingers are not the only thing that can get wrapped around that "handle." So yeah, I'm familiar with failing contraception.

Peace,

LTH

[Craftergrl]

186. Reading comprehension is a good thing..

No, I came out hard on abortion being the ONLY side of being Pro Choice.

And yes my kids came later.

[Maddy McCall]

158. Maybe your parents could have done the same thing if they hadn't had you.

Am I to understand that you had no children?

See, sometimes those dang kids impede the success you experienced.

:eyes:

[SoCalDem]

169. Touche', Maddy

:rofl:

[PassingFair]

181. "so I have to hire illegals"

YOU do?

YOU should be in JAIL, my friend. IF this is true.

[shrike]

201. What he said. n/t

[Craftergrl]

202. I'm sorry..

But there seems to be a couple here that had trouble reading my OP, would you like me to type slower?

[Der Blaue Engel]

194. Cupcake Brown! Is that you??

You just had to bring in the "I have to hire illegals" BS to ruin a perfectly good self-promoting puke-fest. :puke:

[shrike]

200. Any minute now she'll offer us her secret to success

For $99.95 plus shipping and handling. We, too, can be rich . . .

[donco6]

94. And on top of it, all those costs are REALLY CHEAP!

I mean, who has day care for $50 a week? Maybe if you have grandma in town, but not anywhere else. So it's preposterous to think they could make it on that wage.

[doc03]

99. What the hell is the problem? She makes far more

than the minimum wage. If she would cut out all that extravagant spending she would have plenty for food. Just why does she need a car anyway, just walk, and that $500 penthouse apartment thats ridiculous. She just needs to pick herself up by the bootstraps and get a couple more jobs or cut out those extravagant spending habits. :sarcasm:

Here is what I thought was a harmless comment I made, that made me feel about a foot tall:

A couple months ago I was on a diet and stopped at a Subway nearly every day and after loosing 12 pounds I told the lady there I had lost 12 pounds. She wondered if I lost the weight just by eating the subs and I said no I just had been watching my calories and the main thing was exercise. She said she didn't have time to exercise and I said you just have to make time. I find out she worked 40 hours at Subway and 35 hours on another job and had 2 kids to take care of.

[Bucky]

103. A $30 electric bill? What decade are you living in?

[SoCalDem]

104. Bucky, Bucky, Bucky

It's deliberately LOW to focus on the utter impossibility of it all :hi:

[DarkTirade]

110. Or if they live in a trailer, and she works overtime every week...

[B Calm]

113. How much money is she putting in her 401K plan?

[SoCalDem]

114. you rascal !

:rofl:

[cgrindley]

115. I lived on 850 per month

in KS in 1992 with a wife and an infant child.

I was a graduate student and that was my TA stipend.

Rent was 400 for two bedrooms and we didn't have a car.

No health insurance.

It wasn't a lot of fun, but it was okay. We had cable.

[izzybeans]

116. I tried to live on a grad. student stipend from 2001-2005 and there is no

way it was ok. It didn't even cover childcare expenses. And the stipends are still roughly the same.

[kineneb]

161. My friend lives on $850/mo now

in Davis, CA. She is disabled due to nerve damage in her arms and hands. After rent and utilities, she has $25/mo for food. She gets the free food bag, but it only helps a little. I am thinking of sending her a grocery gift card occasionally, even though we live on $1200/month and also qualify for the free food giveaway.

[cgrindley]

166. I've lived on about that before

From academic year 1988-1991, my college roomates and I lived on $50 per month each for food. We had a huge garden, went fishing every couple of weekends, and bought rice by the 50 kg sack, huge bags of bulk spuds, onions etc. Caselots of baked beans. Huge sacks of flour to make our own bread. Lived like that for 3 years. In our last growing season, we had 57 tomato plants. We bought a few giant bricks of ground beef and ended up with over 500 pounds of frozen spaghetti sauce. It can be done, but the initial expenditure requires all of your money up front. You also need a freezer and the cookware necessary to create 500 pounds of spaghetti sauce in the space of a weekend.

In Kansas for my second masters, I lived on organ meats. Gizzards, chicken hearts, kidneys, liver. Bread was 50 cents a loaf. Case lots of soup. It was awful. When I was single, I had it down to $30 bucks a month for food, but that was in 1991. When I got married in 1992, it was much harder. I hate to admit this but in the days of actual food stamps... deals could be had...

In Scotland for my PhD, I was there for the great baked bean war. Heinz baked beans went down to 4p a tin. Beans and toast.

Finally, as a post-doc in Canada, my wife and our three kids were living on $350 per month for food. Fish sticks, shake and bake chicken, hamburger helper, frozen vegetables, milk, orange juice, spuds, rice and pasta. Ham, lettuce, cheese and tomato sandwiches for lunch. Cereal for breakfast. It was also tough and got really monotonous, but 5 year olds don't seem to care.

Now, finally I eat pretty well. Of course, I'm thirty pounds heavier than I was 20 years ago.

[Vinca]

117. Oranges at our local grocery store are $1.00 apiece, so

they can afford 2 oranges and 2 boxes of Kraft mac & cheese per month (on sale). Let's hear it for the greatest country on earth.

[SoCalDem]

118. I feel so sorry for young moms who have to shop with their kids..

I used to tell mine "No!" a lot, but never because we couldn't afford it.

[deutsey]

119. My mom raised me and my sister working as a waitress

I still don't know how she did it beyond a help from family.

[murloc]

120. The answer is no, but the numbers presented are quite off

I'd have to work the numbers over quite a bit to sell it, as I don't agree with most of the figures, but the answer is clearly "NO".


Shouldn't be paying any federal or possibly state tax and in fact she would proably qualify for EIC.

$120 a week for gas seems excessively high ($40 is more accurate imo), but of course if she has some sort of crazy multi city commute then I suppose.

No way would she only work 35 hours. I don't know of anyone working only 35 hours a week nowadays. Even if it means getting a 2nd (or 3rd) job. Gotta make ends meet.

On the other side electric, gas and water are easily half of what they would be, although Im sure she isnt living in a mansion at $500 (depends on the area of course).

Once again, A mother and child CANNOT easily make it on $10/hr, but I would use different numbers to illustrate it.

[SoCalDem]

121. Please do.. More input is always helpful

I have done payroll for a company that paid $7 an hour and their hourly workers DID have to have those deductions on their actual checks.. What happened on April 15th was the employee's business, but week-to-week, they DID have those deductions taken out.. and unfortunately, you have to live on the take-home pay from week to week.

and a second job would only increase the child care costs..

the gas was for 3 fill-ups./. Our honda takes $40 a tank these days..

part time jobs around here are guaranteeing TWENTY hours..(extra hours may be available if you sit by the phone and wait..or if you have flexible day care and can stay late or come in early)

[murloc]

125. No need to split hairs

And I shouldnt have.

You have a very good point abut extra child care cost for a 2nd job. Thats the killer nowadays..child care cost.

The gas cost still seems high to me, but then again that may be because my situation is unique and I spend proably less than $40 a month for fuel.

I do have a question. I know that in the past anyway, one could file "EXCEPT" on their W4, and I heard that technically you could actually get some back from the feds on your paycheck via EIC. (I remember my paystubs even had an eic box). Is that still possible (or ever was)? I don't think I've ever known anyone to actually get eic on each check, but I was under impression that its possible.


In any event. Even if we trim the high points off the budget and leave the low points alone, there is still very little left over, and MANY other costs that you didnt account for (auto insurance, doctor bills, stamps, school supplies, auto repairs, etc,etc, etc).

My heart goes out to familys in that situation.

[SoCalDem]

126. A woman who worked where I did the payroll got $6.75 an hour

and had TWO little kids.. I was always trying to get her a better job (the boss didn't need to know that :evilgrin:.).

Finally managed to get her a job at a supermarket..union wages..full benefits (even for part time)..

her starting pay was $9-something, and this was back when employees did not have to pay anything for insurance.

It was the FIRST time her 5 yr old had been to a dentist..

and then the store ended up getting "merged" and she was laid off..

she moved, and I lost touch with her..but for at least the 6 months she had that job, she had some weight lifted off her shoulders..

[lumberjack_jeff]

154. That's the trouble, you can't disagree about the numbers...

... without being seen as hating poor people.

Everyone's situation is different, but we feed a family of five on a single $16/hour 40hr/week salary.

Medical insurance for the kids is provided by CHIP, we don't pay any income tax on that low income, in fact child tax credits more than offset what we pay and subsidized school lunches helps. If we we needed it, there is a food bank nearby.

However, our costs for fuel are much higher than the example, as are our utilities. I also wonder how many single moms get no form of child support AND have no extended family to help with childcare AND don't qualify for public assistance.

A person who spends 70% of her income on childcare and rent might do her kid a favor by going on welfare and looking for a rent-subsidized apartment. In my area, the example provided would be less than $100/month.

[Der Blaue Engel]

198. Look no farther

I am a single mom who gets no form of child support, has no extended family, and doesn't qualify for public assistance. Never have. I make a decent salary now that my son is in high school, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, for the first several years of his life, I made around $15 an hour, had rent of $800/mo. and daycare of $800/mo., and this was over a decade ago.

Yes, everyone's situation is different, but I think the OP provided a very simple mathematical example to show that for many single parents (and there ARE many in my situation), this is reality. There are a lot of factors that make the figures and impact differ, but in the final accounting, $10 an hour or less is simply not enough for most real, live human families to live on. Instead of nitpicking about who makes less and is doing okay, I think we can all come together on fighting for a decent minimum wage.

Also, I have to say that to suggest that a parent such as myself who had to spend more than 70% of my income on childcare and rent should quit working and go on welfare and then apply for the long and humiliating process of Section 8 housing simply because working wages are increasingly not viable in this country seems unkind, not to mention playing into the "welfare mother" stereotype the conservatives so love to lambast. I'm not sure how that does the child a favor unless you think it's better to live in poverty and to be a stay-at-home mom than to struggle to rise above one's circumstances as a working mother.

[SoCalDem]

199. Thank you.. And even if the wage was $15 an hour, that would still mean more taxes

taken out..and no reason then to NOT have car insurance, and I suspect that once that happened, they would still be dirt poor, hoping that no one got sick ..

the way our society is structured these days, there is a real impediment to "kids" growing up and moving out. They cannot afford it..and heaven help them if they have a kid before they are 35 and making $40K a year.

Even kids whop "do the right thing" and wait for the kids...and who finish college, are graduating with a staggering amount of school debt before they even draw their first "grown-up" paycheck.

How DOES a young couple just starting out, even try to plan a future when they are starting out so far in debt.

Do college as PAYGO? Great.. You end up like my future daughter in law. She's graduating this May, but she and my son will be 29 when they marry. Sure, they will have no debt, BUT..she also wants a baby...so does she hurry before the "clock runs down", and then face the agonies of "wasting her education" bys staying home for a few years, or does she schlep a baby to day care so someone else can watch what may be their only child reach its milestones?... does she spread her wings and work for a few years, only to find out at 33, she's going to need "help" conceiving?

She will have the luxury of being able to choose, because my son has a house already, they have no car payments and they both have money in the bank, but most kids are not in their position.

Young people today have so many issues facing them,. I am glad I came of age when I did. Not as many "opportunities" but not as many dramas either :)

[noonwitch]

124. And people wonder why some poor families live 10 to a house!

A single mom, her kids, and her sister with her kids, or some variety of family situations. Housing is expensive, utilities are expensive and now, groceries are getting really expensive.

[qwlauren35]

127. A different lifestyle is called for.

No car payment. A used car must be bought and owned. There MUST be a roommate, someone to split rent and utilities with. There needs to be a buddy system for child-care. Phone bill can be reduced... but not easily.

And, on this budget, it's likely that food stamps would be available.

However, I'm not saying that it's easy. I think that's why I always wondered why some women choose single parenthood.

[SoCalDem]

130. Sometimes the dads choose it for them

and an old car that breaks down every month has cost many a poor person the job they desperately need.
Around here there are places that will not rent to "more than one" family.. i.e. two moms/2 kids..

Credit checks are also a part of the landscape these days, so a "low-earner" with credit card bills is often denied an apartment..no matter the rent..

This actually happened to my son.. he had PREPAID 6 months rent IN CASH (which I gave him) so he could get the aparrtment he wanted..the rent was $975 a month for a two bedroom "Melrose Place" type apartment cuilding (very chic, in a retro sort of way)..and the roommate he had picked out..who was NOT EVEN ON THE LEASE...was refused..

The apartment managers decided for my son, that his choice of roommate "could not afford the rent"..:grr:.. So my son had to pay the whole rent on a two bedroom apartment, and it took him almost 3 months to find a "suitable" roommate.

[scarletwoman]

170. Women don't always "choose" single parenthood.

I was married with one child, but over the course of 8 years my husband lapsed deeper and deeper into alcoholism, and became abusive. He couldn't hold a job, our home life became a nightmare of constant emotional terrorism, and after several failed attempts to get my husband into treatment, I finally decided I just couldn't take it anymore. So I took our son and left.

It was a struggle, but the alternative seemed so much more destructive.

Sometime later I met a wonderful, gentle, sober man. He seemed like an ideal partner, and eventually I got pregnant again. We were thrilled to bring another child into the world together. Things were going quite well. We both were doing work we enjoyed (although neither of us had health or life insurance), and my sons were doing great. Then suddenly, he died of a heart attack at age 41 when the child we had together was just 3 1/2 years old.

There I was, faced with life as a single mom. It wasn't my choice. I was actually lucky that he and I hadn't been married, or else I would have saddled with enormous hospital bills for his emergency room care.

My point is, not all single mothers are in their situation by choice. Sometimes, shit just happens.

sw

[raccoon]

128. And if they never have any dental problems and don't need any vision care. nt

[baldguy]

135. $15/month for gas? In winter...in the NE?

My heating bill last month for a very warm January in Buffalo was $275

[npincus]

148. under-the-radar expenses

birthday presents for friends, classmates, relatives

school obligations (teacher gifts, classmate's cards and candy, etc. for holidays, birthdays)

holiday expenses (costumes, decorations)

'entertainment' (visits to parks, movies, indoor playgrounds, outings to the pizzaria, etc.)

and many more I can't think of now. Those costs add up, believe me.

[Bluerthanblue]

149. you forgot my

personal favorite-

Toilet paper.


If I ever get rich, I'm going to by a MESS of toilet paper. Maybe even have a closet full of it.

I've had to choose between milk and toilet paper more than once in my life. (As a mom,- my children's needs tipped the balance)

And I'm not proud to admit that I still hoard paper napkins anytime they are offered in public. When we were on public assistance, toilet paper wasn't something we could buy with a voucher. You learn that the 'cottony' stuff doesn't go nearly as long as the industrial kind, and become a TP Nazi... policing the roll after prolonged bathroom visits.

My father began life using the pages of catalogs- so maybe it's an inherited obsession.:silly:

Soap, dish detergent, laundry, feminine hygine supplies, tooth paste, deodorant- all the 'little necessities' really add up over time. But their lack, really impacts day to day comfort, and living.

:crazy:

peace,
blu

[npincus]

153. thank you- you're so right

I wish you and your family a bounty of toilet paper in your future! :)

There are do many goddamned expenses that fly right under the radar... I'm really stressed out, costs are going up everywhere on everything.

[devilgrrl]

150. People are poor because they're lazy.

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[Kajsa]

155. Hi SoCalDem!

You speak for me, here.

I am a single mom, with one son
trying to get by on a very limited income.

Thanks for posting this!

K&R.

:hi:

[misternormal]

176. In the state of Arkansas...

... The wage for food service workers, waiters and waitresses, is mandated by law:

As of October 1, 2006, Arkansas increased the state's minimum wage rate from $5.15 to $6.25 per hour. The minimum cash wage for tipped employees was increased from $2.58 to $2.63 per hour. Therefore, the maximum tip credit was increased from $2.57 to $3.62 per hour.

I personally think that this sort of thing should be illegal.

[SoCalDem]

178. especially since lots of people use plastic and write in the tip

these days.. the waitress/waiter only gets the hourly pay, and "hopes" that the payroll people add in the tips.. if not, they are pretty much screwed.

[Der Blaue Engel]

189. And if the tip is in plastic, it gets taxed, and possibly shared

Not that I'm advocating going around the system or anything. But I like to leave my tips in cash.

[SoCalDem]

190. Me too.. We always tip at least 20%..in cash..rounded UP.

My son's fiancee' and my best friend have both waited tables.:)

[Pavulon]

177. Social Programs would help

this person would qualify for social assistance. Day care assistance, food assistance (wic), housing subsidy, Medicaid, and energy assistance would be available for this person in NC.

Not that $10 is a great wage but a non high school graduate working at some jobs may not be able to earn more than that.

[SoCalDem]

180. $18,130 is the apparent income limit of 1 child, so she seems to have just missed

the limit by a few bucks.. but then she's probably had her pay docked because of her kid getting sick or maybe she didn't GET 3e5 hrs a week every week..

WIC ends with the 5th birthday too, so after that, the kid's goin' on a diet:(

[Pavulon]

197. Other benefits

can apply. Both federal and state..work first, food stamps, etc. Not saying it is a great wealthy system but the system is what it is and can be used to feed your family.

http://www.dhhs.state.nc.us/dss/foodstamp/index.htm

[Der Blaue Engel]

188. Wow...whose daycare is that low?

When my son was little ('91 - '95), I was shelling out $800/mo in San Francisco, and paying the same in rent. I was making $15 an hour. Don't ask me how we survived. I don't know.

Imagine how small that paycheck is after health benefits are taken out, if she's lucky enough to have any. And don't even think about going to the doctor even if you do have the insurance, or the phone bill money goes to the copay and the utilies go to the meds.

My son ate a lot of "peas and cheese" casseroles as a kid. Sometimes dinner was potato salad.

edited to fix egregious typo

[liberal renegade]

208. the american nightmare

is alive and well.. The working class have no power, unless we all went on strike and shut this country down.

[SoCalDem]

209. Unfortunately, low-paid people cannot afford to take a day off

and if their boss found out WHY they took off, they might lose that job altogether.:(